Amidst all the bad news from Egypt, there’s this

3:48 pm - August 16th 2013

by Sunny Hundal    

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Sunny Hundal is editor of LC. Also: on Twitter, at Pickled Politics and Guardian CIF.
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Reader comments

Nobody should mourn the demise of the Islamist Morsi government that was rapidly taking Egypt towards a Tehran-style counter-revolutionary theocracy. Good to see these guys protecting churches from the MB backlash. Tragic how the MB set its followers up for a vicious massacre and how the military were more than happy to oblige. Now to deal with the generals who were happy to collaborate with Morsi until the people spoke. Demand a reasonable timetable for new constituent elections immediately. Form a radical party of the revolution that can contest those elections against the military clowns and butchers and the reactionary Islamists.

2. Man On Clapham Omnibus

Ok there are a bunch of deluded people in the middle of a shit storm. Is there a message in here somewhere?

Does anyone really know’s what is going on with sectarian attacks on churches and the like? You wouldn’t put it past people there to be doing things like that themselves to blame it on the other side.
The rhetoric from the coup leaders about terrorism and the grave warnings about the MB make me suspect that they could do anything. Including committing sectarian attacks to blame on the Islamists.
What’s clear is that Eqypt is pretty broken right now and that people are quite happy to see hundreds of their fellow citizens shot down in cold blood.
I think the ”deep state” has crushed the revolution.

#3 When it comes to cynicism nothing is beyond the Egyptian Generals but of course the Islamists are just as cynical. They could turn Cairo into Baghdad 2 without losing any sleep and between the two of them that is what they are trying to do. There’s power in sectarianism for the Islamists and there’s money from the US for fighting the war on terror for the Generals.

A little bit soon to say whether this is analagous to the 1906 Tsarist reaction in Russia to the 1905 revolution yet as the secular democratic forces are not yet defeated. They will be if the generals consolidate their power and cancel elections though in which case the pasting the MB are getting now from their erstwhile friends will be turned on the revolutionaries but even then the revolution will only be driven underground to explode again in a decade or so.

@1 the Morsi government was democratically elected. You might not like them, but do you actually think this is better?

You seem more in love with communistic waffle than you have feelings for people, which is a very bad sign.

6. Just visiting


This story is of little value unless you think some of your readers believe that 100% of Muslims do 0% good.

I can’t believe anyone here does believe that.

The story still leaves the uncomfortable truth that what many Muslims are doing in Egypt is incompatible with what UK left/liberals values.

I’m reminded of the Guardian piece earlier this summer on the huge levels of sexual violence against women,among the anti-Morsi protestors in Cairo.

7. Paul peter Smith

@5 Cherub
Thatcher, Blair, Putin and Mugabe were all democratically elected, as were Hitler and Mussolini, it doesnt always follow that elections inevitably lead to good government. The military have intervened in other countries, like Turkey, to re-enforce secular government and democratic freedoms, it isnt neccessarily a bad thing. Whether this carnage is a crime against the Egyptian people or a genuine counter revolution remains to be seen. I honestly cant tell whose hands are bloodiest, the Generals, the MB’s or whoever else is stirring the pot but unless this story is pure ‘Wag the dog’ then at least some actual Egyptian’s know the difference between right and wrong.

8. Man On Clapham Omnibus

7. Paul peter Smith

There is a simple reason for what’s happened. The Muslim Brotherhood were pals with Hamas. Hamas aren’t pals with Israel. The US are pals with Israel. After 67,when the US aborted an attempt to Nuke Egypt they now pay Egypt(military) a tidy sum to leave Israel alone. It doesn’t take much to join up the dots.
The trouble with all US interventions,starting terrorist groups,funding and creating ‘red on red’ conflicts can and do get of of hand as in the case of Al Qaeda. The good news for the US is why Egyptian are shooting each other,Israel will remain happy.

It must not be forgotten that, for all the faults of his rule, Morsi was democratically elected, and was deposed by a military coup. This is always a BAD THING. It could have been mitigated if the military had immediately ordered new elections, but it now seems perfectly obvious that Egypt is sliding back into a military dictatorship.

As the Electoral Reform Society has pointed out, his election was facilitated by a flawed system. The use of a run-off system meant that in the first round, the secularist/moderate Islamic vote was split between several candidates, and, in the second round, the electorate was faced with a choice between Morsi and Shafik, who, although standing as an independant, had strong links to the Mubarak regime. Many moderates “held thir noses” and voted Morsi. A STV system might have prevented this. As Wikpedia,_2012 points out “Islamist candidates Morsi and Fotouh won roughly 42% of the vote, while the remaining secular candidates won 56% of the vote”

10. Paul peter Smith

@9 Mark Austin
You remind us that Morsi was elected democratically then point out that it was only possible with the support of a reluctant minority, this is a resounding mandate, why?
I truly apologise if my original post seemed callous, it wasn’t meant to be. Many Turkish people of my general age see the military’s intervention in their recent political history as a very good thing. Keeping the Mulah’s out of power and allowing Turkey to move forward as a modern state.
In the moment when the tanks roll out people die tragically but their society as a whole benefits occasionally. I am not proposing that military intervention is the solution of choice in troubled regions, just that in this maelstrom of a conflict/region who really knows who the good guys are (if any, and if recent history is anything to go by, we’ll be in there somewhere despicable).

@1: “Tragic how the MB set its followers up for a vicious massacre”

By the same logic your advice is tragically setting up the Egyptian left for a similar massacre by advising them to make demands the Army is certain to see as similarly intolerable.

@6: JustVisiting: “This story is of little value unless you think some of your readers believe that 100% of Muslims do 0% good. I can’t believe anyone here does believe that.”

I’d say quite a few of the commenters on here (like on every other news site) often give the impression of believing that. However it is also the official narrative of the tabloid press and Daily Telegraph…

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