Even if you want to cut immigration, you should be angry about last week


10:35 am - August 7th 2013

by Sunny Hundal    


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My first thought at hearing about the Van driving around with a sign saying ‘Go Home’ was that of horror.

My second emotion was a weary feeling about how this would play out. I would express my outrage; a barrage of replies would say I was over-reacting as it only focused on ‘illegals'; there would media coverage of the outrage; the Tories would get the headlines they wanted for their stunt with minimal effort.

We have been here many times before and, as the Tories gear up for the 2015 election, we will again. This is why I’m writing this post.

I don’t want to preach to the already converted. Let’s assume you want vastly less immigration into the UK. Let’s also assume you want undocumented immigrants to leave the country. I don’t necessarily agree with those positions but they are easy to comprehend.

For the purposes of this article I’ll share those concerns with you. The problem is that we are all being manipulated by the government, and we should all be angry about this.

The GO HOME van only toured Asian-dominated areas and only offered translation in Asian languages. The spot checks at a few London tube stations in areas with lots of ethnic minorities, and mostly singled them out.

Let’s start with the obvious problem: all this doesn’t even begin to scratch the surface. There are an estimated 300,000 – 800,000 people in the UK who don’t have the papers to be here. The Home Office has schemes (some even offering money!) aimed at these people, to little impact. They’re not going to be persuaded simply by a billboard on a van. How many people will the spot-checks find? I doubt it would even stretch to 100s as undocumented workers would wisen up and avoid certain areas.

Then what about the cost? Are you comfortable with the idea of the state singling you out because of the colour of your skin? What if you were on holiday and the local police started harassing you on the assumption you were a criminal because you were white? Except, in this case, most of the people being harassed by spot-checks are British citizens. This create resentment and anger, and a police force cannot work properly without cooperation from citizens.

David Cameron knows racial profiling is a terrible idea; here’s a video of the PM in 2009 saying he didn’t want people stopped by police asking for their papers. Theresa May said stop-and-search needed to be scaled back because it didn’t work.

Besides, a large proportion of people who illegally stay in the UK are from Australia, South Africa, USA and New Zealand. Nothing is being done to target them..

So why are they doing it? Because these are stunts – to give you the impression something is being done.

Last week the Home Office twitter account started posting messages about the number of arrests they made. How many undocumented migrants do you think sit on Twitter and would be intimidated? Hardly any. Their aim was to rile up the left and get some coverage in the news.

If you’re the kind of person who likes media stunts, fair enough. But if you genuinely want something done about immigrants who have illegally over-stayed in the UK – you should be outraged at the way they’re trying you trick you into pretending that something is being done.

In the run-up to 2015, there will be many more such stunts. There will be many more such circular arguments. But that doesn’t mean we have to be taken for a ride by politicians every time.

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About the author
Sunny Hundal is editor of LC. Also: on Twitter, at Pickled Politics and Guardian CIF.
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Reader comments


Then what about the cost? Are you comfortable with the idea of the state singling you out because of the colour of your skin?

Are you comftable with the idea of the state singling you out because you want to access legal and whats classed as normal(in terms of porn)pornography sites in the privacy of your own home? Thats exactly what the declaration of “opt in” amounts to isent it. I am not suggesting they both carry the same weight however.

So why are they doing it? Because these are stunts – to give you the impression something is being done

In response to a small political party that was, in absence of a better term, pissed on by the political class while it smouldered, all the while remaining totally unaware that the voting class of this country held the same concerns, and those concerns grew and grew until those concerns had a large enough mass to be reflected in the public attitude as a whole, and that smoulder turned into a flame, now they are trying to stamp it out and are at a guess using a section of society they believe offers the best damage limitation.

Cat is kind of out of the bag, if you are for or against immigration its more than apparent the current goverment has not got the skill to make any meaningful changes, that benefit those in the country and those coming to it, would a Labour goverment have valid solutions?

I was depressed rather than angry.

Excellent piece. Out of interest, do we have figures/guestimates to the numbers of ‘white commonwealth’/US illegal migrants?

Excellent piece. Out of interest, do we have figures/guestimates to the numbers of ‘white commonwealth’/US illegal migrants?

Thanks. I’m trying to get the numbers – but it turns out that pretty much most of the numbers around immigration are about vague guesses.

Are you comfortable with the idea of the state singling you out because of the colour of your skin?

No,but thats not what happened is it!

It is important to recognise that the state routinely discriminates legal activities from illegal ones. If illegality is associated with certain social groups then its quite right to target those groups.

The fire brigade does the same thing with fires as it happens!

No,but thats not what happened is it!

That’s exactly what happened.

6. Sy

Where are the reference on the van to skin colour??

Where are the reference on the van to skin colour??

The van isn’t the thing stopping and questioning people.

‘If you’re the kind of person who likes media stunts, fair enough. But if you genuinely want something done about immigrants who have illegally over-stayed in the UK – you should be outraged at the way they’re trying you trick you into pretending that something is being done.’

It may certainly be a waste of time and money but I think it is encumbent upon you to say firstly, whether you feel illegal overstayers should be removed and secondly the best way of achieving this.

I think its very easy to jump up and down and infer prejudice and intentions. Less easy is providing a solution.

10. Legal Flamework

@5. and 7.
You have quoted a question Sunny posed regarding spot checks, not the mobile display.
Why on Earth are you babbling about fires and ‘social groups’?

8. ukliberty

Ok fair enough but presumably the logic of your argument is that no-one gets questioned or everybody gets questioned.
I would suggest the latter is a tad impractical and the former is by definition a nonstarter.

Either way you are free to answer the question I posed to the writer of the article ie How would you go about it.

Well it’s probably worth pointing out that immigrants aren’t heading towards nations that are brutal authoritarian shitholes or ridden with anarchic violence and tribal warfare. So, technically speaking, Mr Cameron’s plan to turn Britain into an authoritarian shithole is very likely to result in reduced immigration figures, which is what those banging on about reducing immigration, illegal or not, want after all.

13. Planeshift

“now they are trying to stamp it out”

Any honest look at the history of immigration policy would conclude that ‘they’ have been ‘trying to stamp it out’ for several decades, with succesively stronger immigation controls and restrictions on entry to the UK. With one exception – EU enlargement extending free movement to millions more.

It was far easier for a person from South Asia to legally settle in the UK in the 1980s than it was at any time in the previous 10 years.

Where are the reference on the van to skin colour??

You target dark-skinned people in Asian areas while parroting well-worn racist slogans, then yes, it’s reasonable to infer prejudice. Whether or not you jump up and down while doing it.

Okay, as far as it goes.
1.There is also the intimidation that many will experience. Just as ‘Stop and Search’ often triggers off a stand-off , such a campaign could do the same with the UKBA too.
2. It would only take one person to seek avoiding a search and there could be a Jean Charles de Menezes type outcome.
3. It would give legitimacy to NHS/benefits/housing staff to harden their processes against those that look like migrants.
4. And you did not tackle the existence of the Hostile Environment Working Group, specifically authorised by Cameron and gleefully championed by Jeremy Brown.

10. Legal Flamework

Its called targeting the problem. I would have thought it was patently obvious.

17. Legal Flamework

9.
I presume that you mean ‘incumbent’ and if so, why do you think that Sunny has an obligation to provide a solution?
I think that Cameron’s government stinks like an ageing fatberg in a sewer but I don’t have a solution powerful enough.

12. Cylux

although considerable numbers will be economic migrants because in part the west has deliberatey developed their underdevelopment through colonialism and post colonialism.

14. Sy

Similarly the police are prejudiced about organised crime then.

To give any coherence to this piece someone needs to say that they agree with kicking out illegal immigrants and suggest a viable methodology other than the one the government are currently implementing.

Not to do so suggests that illegal immigrants are not a concern which is a position that has some symmetry at least.

Ok fair enough but presumably the logic of your argument is that no-one gets questioned or everybody gets questioned.
I would suggest the latter is a tad impractical and the former is by definition a nonstarter.

Either way you are free to answer the question I posed to the writer of the article ie How would you go about it.

I have no objection to intelligence-led operations against (say) businesses. I have no objection to stops based on reasonable suspicion. I object to people being stopped for being brown. If that is what is happening it is wrong and it is unlawful.

Funnily enough my attitude coincides exactly with UKBA’s own enforcement guidance. It is UKBA that doesn’t appear to be following the rules.

19. MOCO.

A question I would pose is: Can a 21st century nation state control and police a land border?
USA cannot deal with its southern border despite deploying 60k troops and even more state officials.
Most of Europe has free movement, including the border between Northern and Republic Ireland.

I’d like to know where this idea of loads of illegal Australians and New Zealanders comes from.
I have never heard of much immigration from those countries to the UK. I think Sunny may be thinking about packpacking tourists who overstay their visas for a bit – before then returning to their lives in their home countries. As, since they’ve been living and working here for up to a year, they might not be quite ready to go when the visa runs out. but they do ”go home”.

It’s hardly the same as Bangladesh and Nigeria.
But maybe this is just one of my ”Daily Mail” points of view.

Personally I don’t think we need to ”be angry” about anything. but I can see how one might chose to become so.
You can become angry about things like this if you want to. It’s a choice.

Actually, I agree with your conclusion. It is a waste of time, and all too typical of our present government.

On the other hand, I don’t regard it as a moral horror.

I’m also not sure where you figures are coming from. Are most illegal immigrants really Australians overstaying on their visas? Why not post a link to the stats?

9.
I presume that you mean ‘incumbent’ and if so, why do you think that Sunny has an obligation to provide a solution?

Well I just looked at Cameron’s poll ratings compared to Ed’s and if all the ‘responsible left’ left can do is complain then those ratings are fully justifiable.If all someone can do is disagree their argument looks weak and they dont look as if they can provide a solution.

I think that Cameron’s government stinks like an ageing fatberg in a sewer but I don’t have a solution powerful enough.

Ok so you have no ideas – thanks for sharing that with us.

On the issue of sifting out brown individuals from a brown community would you say the same if it was TB the authorities were looking to cure?

ukliberty

I object to people being stopped for being brown.

I think it will be a tad more nuanced than that. But maybe not a whole lot more. I wouldn’t particularly trust their hunches either, but I think I’m pretty able to hazard a guess if a person was living in this country a long time, or has come recently as an adult (from Africa or Asia).
I think we can tell who are people who went to school in Britain and those who have come as recent migrants.

But as I say, I wouldn’t trust the hunch of a border agency guy particularly. But I doubt they’ll be stopping British born people. Or even longtime immigrants who are British citizens.

20. ukliberty

I have no objection to intelligence-led operations against (say) businesses.

What does the ‘(say)’ mean.

I’m going to lie down, I feel a subtext coming on.

21. Namak

Probably the UK is best placed for immigration control because its small and its an Island.

This isnt about rich Europeans though. Its about poor ,predominantly black people coming into the UK. Once upon a time it was a great idea to rip the wealth out of their lands but now it seems to have gone horribly wrong.

If you want to see border control at its best you should go to Pakistan. You’re kept waiting at the border for a few hours while you prove you wont be a drain on their welfare system!

I’d like to know where this idea of loads of illegal Australians and New Zealanders comes from.

Earls Court

It is certainly my belief that the van, the presence on the street and the tweets were all for press and nothing to do with actually addressing the issue of illegal immigration.

The government wishes to appear tough on illegal immigration and at the same time it knows that many Labour people will attack their activities, as a consequence the Labour people will be misinterpreted as weak on immigration.

It has been a very crass abuse of government powers.

UKIP’s attack was the most interesting, essentially, that in the UKIP view of things, if we had proper control of our borders then this activity would be irrelevant.

UKIP did tap into something significant which is that this activity is very un-british and as a Labour guy I think that Labour should have taken that approach.

29. Patrick James

The big elephant in the room is whether illegal immigration is actually a problem and if it is what methodology should be employed to mitigate it.

As a Labour man what is your view?

31. Legal Flamework

24.
What has poll ratings got to do with the article and why don’t you respond correctly to my posting?
I asked you why you think that Sunny is obligated to find a solution?
Why should I provide an answer to something that appears to get you worked up when you don’t come up with a plan yourself?
I have not mentioned anything about ‘sifting out brown individuals’
btw: If you think that Pakistan has an effective border control, you might be suffering from an attack of the Godfrey Blooms or something similar.

MOCO,

I have no objection to intelligence-led operations against (say) businesses.

What does the ‘(say)’ mean.

for example

OK

another example would be to tap the whole population. Mr Snowdon has kindly alluded to the UK infrastructure capable of doing this. It also avoids any taint of racism. How about that in the war of words with the tories?

31. Legal Flamework

‘Why should I provide an answer to something that appears to get you worked up when you don’t come up with a plan yourself?’

Please do not be alarmed, I’m not worked up in the slightest.

As to a plan. Well no-one has to have any real response to the Tories over this, and other issues for that matter, but since immigration is an important topic it seems sensible for the ‘left’ to have some sort of response.

Further,this site could continue to respond in the style of an insiped shock horror ‘left wing’ version of a widely read red top or it could engage in providing a political responses to the days political news.

If you want my take on it ,I’ll give it.

You have one of two choices as I see it. Firstly you can do something about illegal aliens by targeting specific areas and employment venues on the basis of intelligence/government records.

Secondly you could come out politically and say its not a problem, write off the existing illegals and tighten up the borders such that no-one else can get in.

There is a variant on the first;that is say you are going to act tough but in the event don’t. Its called lying and I understand it features in the toolkit of any aspiring politician.

Personally I’d go for the last. You can act tough which gives you political credo and the only thing you really have to do is not let anybody else in.

Please have a look at this link. It shows that the racistvan was not just an isolated stunt. It was calculated to intimidate.
http://www.freemovement.org.uk/2013/07/16/the-hostile-environment-working-group/
And not just for undocumented migrants, but for all who fit the description.
(Btw, in my view there are no illegal immigrants, just as there are no illegitimate children).

36. Legal Flamework

33.
Use PRISM to detect illegals using phones, internet and twitter?
Dodgy Char on Farcebook: hi family peeps. having a luverly time hear in britain as a ilegal. the room that i have at 6a Blooming Bongo Avenue, London XL4 9PS is biger than our wildes dreem and i hope that the polise donot catch me so donot tel them were i are. luv, fidel incarma.

Oh dear.

36. Legal Flamework

Which leads you to what policy conclusion?

35. Namak

Yes they are evil bastards. Sadly,that wins votes which is why a policy response is needed. Problem is the Labour party is full of evil bastards too which makes Ed’s job all the more difficult.

@19
No, I think you need to show these stunts are a good use of limited resources.

40. Legal Flamework

37.
I conclude that your policy #33 will not work.

41. Charlieman

@34. MOCO: “Further,this site could continue to respond in the style of an insiped shock horror ‘left wing’ version of a widely read red top or it could engage in providing a political responses to the days political news.”

I understand where you are coming from. But there are dozens (hundreds?) of think tanks and academic bodies from which at least one coherent immigration policy might have been published in recent years. Sadly, we still do not have a rational debate, barely the framework for a discussion.

So we can’t really complain when bloggers whine about crass media stunts such as we have seen recently. Bloggers will talk about the negative stuff because there is nothing positive to build upon.

Perhaps a rational debate might emerge from the blogosphere. Or from a collective brain dump of independent thinkers at a community hall. I hope so.

‘Discussion’ on blogs generally comprises personal grievance settling and uncompromising idealism. Moving it on to nitty gritty policy development requires something special.

40. Legal Flamework

you missed the point .It was a response to the post from UKLiberty although I still havent heard your proposals.

41. Charlieman

That’s sad . We could always buck the trend. I hate halls they’re always draughty and the tea is always stewed.
Best to do it on the net.This site seems to be full of clever people so even a slight chat about policies would be an improvement.

44. Legal Flamework

43.
Also, you could ask the quiet batpeople.
Free lobotomies for regular Daily Mail readers might solve it and Mr Dacre loves to print coupons*.

Collect x number and you get the op’ plus a facsimile of a WWII ration book.

41. Charlieman

Just been in the car listening to Pickles on the riots.
In a curious way what he was saying dovetails into this discussion. His whole focus was to ‘teach people a lesson’.Ok there was some reference to a few minor policies but ‘teach people a lesson’ was the key thing.

My take on this is it isnt an issue that is just a matter of variety of policies but rather a way of thinking that needs to be fought head on. Just like 1930’s Europe for which facism made so much sense.

The racist van is just but another example.I suppose my thinking revolves around why in a recession does ideological practice transform into individuated thinking.
Is that the de facto response?Is there anything that can influence political practice and in someway invalidate the conservative terrain? Or does it have to be worked through by disent,poverty and pay day loans.If so there is a shitstorm ahead.

This isnt just party politics either. Labour will go the same way. Blair tells us that.

46. Charlieman

@43. MOCO: “This site seems to be full of clever people so even a slight chat about policies would be an improvement.”

Let’s test that theory. For a framework, term of reference position: “Immigration policy should be determined independently of racial and multicultural debate within the UK.”

47. David Griffiths

A number of years ago Theresa May said that the Conservatives were considered by some to be ‘The Nasty Party.’ Now, aided & abetted by the LibDems, they have morphed into ‘The Nasty Government.’ This latest escapade, coupled with the impact of the changes to the Benefit rules, the ‘Bedroom Tax,’ & so much must leave the One Nation Tories who are no longer with us turning in their graves.

48. Charlieman

@45. MOCO: “Is there anything that can influence political practice and in someway invalidate the conservative terrain?”

Citizens challenge perceptions of dishonesty by selling eggs and garden produce via honesty boxes. Transgendered people get on with their lives, showing up bigots by their dignity. Those are not political acts, but they ‘invalidate the conservative terrain’. Tolerance and mutual respect define how it works.

The conservative accusation that citizens distrust and fear one another, continually or continuously, is poorly founded. Citizens trust people like them; that is how con operators work.

Conservative politicians try to manipulate fear, but when faced with reality or a government job, they act differently. Liberalism is normal. I do not argue that conservatives should be trusted; I believe that they may be mellowed and occasionally act as liberals.

There is an exception: the Home Office. The Home Office, and the spooks which inform, need to be torn apart so that Civil Servants no longer pop up every five years to tell politicians that it is time to spy on citizens.

At which point it is appropriate to name Theresa May, and to note her self defence. Theresa May can not run the civil service around her, but she is a more honest striver than her immediate predecessors. She may not be a liberal, but I trust her more than the men who proclaimed themselves as liberals.

According to the Office of National Statistics Migration Statistics Quarterly Report, May 2013:

190,000 migrants arrived to study in the year to September 2012, which is significantly lower than 246,000 in the previous year. Study remains the most common reason stated for migrating to the UK.

Actually they weren’t “migrants” they were visitors. As far as I know it is the USA alone that considers all people visiting the country to be migrants, who have to prove they will return to their own country before they are granted a visa.

During that year and partly as a result of the fraudulent abuse of the visa system by criminals in the UK running bogus colleges, along with other immigration scams, the entry requirements for genuine students were made increasingly rigorous. This will have contributed a lot to the fall in numbers of genuine students successfully applying for visas and a consequent drop in income going to schools, colleges and universities. Further education and English language schools both saw student reductions of 46%. It probably also resulted in an increase in students going to the UK’s major competitors, Australia, New Zealand and the United States. At £30k a student a year, (probably a modest estimate) that’s £1.68 billion not going into the UKs education system and wider economy in single year.

So it is not true to suggest as some do, that illegal immigration is a victim-less crime and some of those victims will have been the teachers who formerly taught those student visitors.

And so far those who have opposed the government’s chosen method to tackle illegal immigration and overstaying have yet to suggest an alternative, other than a massive increase in staff numbers for what we once knew as the UK Border Agency

Chris Bryant, the shadow immigration minister, said: “This cover-up and the failure at our borders provide yet more dents in this government’s much-tarnished credibility.

“If Theresa May thinks Mr Vine’s report would imperil national security or provide ammunition for illegal migrants, she should share the full report with the Home Affairs Select Committee and ourselves and explain why the full report cannot be published without masses of redactions. This is a cover up to hide her own failings.”

He added: “What this last month has shown is a government that is resorting to high-profile ‘van man’ style gimmicks on immigration to mask the fact that they are not getting the basics right.

Perhaps Sunny could get an interview with Chris Bryant to find out what “the basics” are.

51. ultimatetroll

What I want to know is what countries the immigrants came from during labours 13 years in power. Also, does anyone have any statistics on what countries many of the illegal immigrants come from?
thanks.

48. Charlieman

Isn’t trust in others the inverse of self relience , hence the small state mentality? Does the left trust capitalism and its agents to provide the maximum benifit to all? Most definitely not,so trust and distrust works both ways.

Likewise tolerance and mutual respect are well accomodated within conservative thinking and in the examples you provide.

‘The conservative accusation that citizens distrust and fear one another, continually or continuously, is poorly founded’

I think there are plenty of examples against that argument ;politicians,banksters,energy companies,young people,muslims,east european workers, scroungers etc etc, sadly the list goes on and on.

What people fear in most cases are the charicatures, probably because they are routed in survival.
Most people do not have a wide circle of aquantancies. In fact we are biologically wired to cope with 150 people ,of those about 5 intimately. The consequence is our wider understanding is mediated by news media,none of which is unbiased. I read a study somewhere where some of those questioned thought the population consists of 30% muslims.
Other outlandish ‘facts’ also emerged but I cant remember them.

The point is while parochially individuals will relate to each other on a tolerant basis, on a wider scale they will not particularly in conditions of scarcity.I would suggest thats why the right wing almost always has the upper hand in a recession.

For conservatives, politics translates individual experience to global policy. For Thatcher the economy was the housewives purse. Yesterday, Eric Pickles saw the London riots as the actions of a collective of naughty individuals who needed scoulding,much like you would a son of a daughter in the family.The fact is conservatism is easy to understand and is easily scalable to national level.

For those espousing the need for more equality, especially at a time of shortage, or indeed a modicum of social justice the route is all uphill.

That’s why the stunt of the ‘racist van’ is so difficult to unseat despite plenty of offers of a policy alternative. Even Sunny ,who wrote the piece was unable to raise his game above the usual moaning about conservatives.

Lets throw this out for a wider discusion.

I’ll bet you anything that if people were asked anynomously whether that was a good approach most would say yes.

Further that the majority of white British are tacitly racist towards blacks and asians and a considerable number of blacks are racist towards whites and each other.

That racial tolerance is gossamer thin and will easily break down under social stress.I would suggest that why the issue of racism continues to be so prevalent within the police and security firms such as G4S.

That ultimately ,in this climate, politics will be only won,in the interim, on the basis of accomodating these realities by mitigating the points of stress, eg housing jobs etc or increasing state repression.

One things for sure,if the left has to resort to statistics we are all undone.

53. “Immigration policy should be determined independently of racial and multicultural debate within the UK.”

Following on from Charlieman’s great topic suggestion I hereby open this up for discussion.

To start this off I will suggest a few ideas for discussion which hopefully you will find contentious .

In formulating policy we shopuld take into account that:

All countries should be population self sufficient ie. they should educate their populations to fullfil all necessary economic and social functions.

That foreigners of markedly different cultures/religions will inevitably create racial tensions with the indiginous population.

That influxes of foreign workers should be discouraged because of the stress on social and economic infrasture.

That the idea of multiculturalism and similar ideas as a way to justify ‘cultural enrichment’ is a sham.

MOCO,

another example would be to tap the whole population. Mr Snowdon has kindly alluded to the UK infrastructure capable of doing this. It also avoids any taint of racism. How about that in the war of words with the tories?

How about no?

54. ukliberty

You have been invited to have a stab at a rebutle to the racist van and racial targeting by the authorities. You have said absolutely nothing but sadly in doing so you have highlighted a seemingly complete inability of the left to respond with anything but filamentary platitudes or worse nothing at all.

Sunny has just stuck up a post which in my view shows the danger we are up against. This stuff can go off as sure as wildfire. It needs to be taken seriously.

MOCO, the problem is you have suggested a totalitarian, disproportionate and expensive approach as an alternative to (what appears to be) a racist stunt. I say no to both those approaches.

I already said I had no objection to intelligence-led operations and stops based on reasonable suspicion – which is what UKBA is supposed to do (and actually does) per their own guidance. Why isn’t that good enough?

56. ukliberty

a I didnt suggest it and b the discussion has moved on a bit

In the news: More UK births than any year since 1972, says ONS
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-23618487

The obvious recourse is to ban births or at least to license births with compulsory contraception in mixed-sex couplings. Gay marriages are timely and socially beneficial.

58. Bob B

Mixed race births should be encouraged imo since they improve the gene pool.

59.
58 expressed concern about the rise in the number of births and posted a suggestion regarding “mixed-sex” couplings.
Nearly everyone thinks that the world is over populated but, when it comes to individuals and families, people point at others and say that the other lot are to blame.


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