Meet Woolwich Truthers who claim attack a “hoax”


4:57 pm - May 23rd 2013

by Sunny Hundal    


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This is a bit of a tricky blog-post to write.

No doubt I’ll be accused by some of giving prominence to these Truthers. On the other hand unless such accounts are challenged and shone a light on, they can generate their own unchallenged cult status.

I shouldn’t have to do this but I’ll say anyway that I think the claims below are ridiculous and the work of fantasists.

A website and online radio station calling itself Truth Frequency Radio claims that the Woolwich attack was a “hoax”.

As far as I can tell, it is a US-based project run by two individuals Chris Geo and Sheree Geo (pictured).

They say the Woolwich attack “has all of the same earmarks as the Sandy Hook, The Boston Marathon Bombing and so many recent events”. In other words it believes those incidents were hoaxes too.

We’ll continue to look into this story but on the surface it seems like just another propaganda piece, nothing to really concern ourselves with and most likely a distraction while they slip more totalitarian legislation through.

And their case for calling it a “hoax”? Grainy pictures that don’t show enough blood. Err, that’s it.

.

Errr… how in the world does this demonstrate it was a “hoax”? What about the actual dead bodies?

Nevertheless, there are several images like this

.

Chris and Sheree Geo claim they founded Truth Frequency Radio “with the purpose of compiling an archive of information which can be used for generations to come”. Perhaps for generations to laugh at them.

Their blog post claiming Woolwich was a hoax is here. Like I said, nuts.

UPDATE 1
There’s also very idiotic this blog post claiming it was a false-flag operation (via @stophmcc)

UPDATE 2 There’s a video too

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About the author
Sunny Hundal is editor of LC. Also: on Twitter, at Pickled Politics and Guardian CIF.
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Reader comments


“No doubt I’ll be accused by some of giving prominence to these Truthers.”

Sunny, I don’t think you are doing so deliberately, but unfortunately such people thrive on any attention, even ridicule. I respectfully urge you to take this article down.

First and foremost. I’m Not a truther. I do have a question though. ..Where does that old lady dissappear to. Has the film been cut?

Sunny – if you start rebutting Troofers you will attract every kind of loon. I echo Lamia. Don’t pay them any attention. It’s throwing fertiliser over noxious weeds.

Just watched full video on live leak. Woman walks straight past him.

I agree with Rosie but it is Ok to want to clarify. To this day I’m puzzled about building no.7 I mean how did it fall down?

Why is it so bad to post these things? Who loses? If they’re wrong they’re wrong. The only people they are speaking of ill is ‘the government’ very generically. It’s like when people say you shouldn’t explore 9/11 because it would be offensive – to whom?

Not saying they’re right – just that you shouldn’t be afraid to publish this blog exposing and challenging these ideas.

There people dont have a single brain cell between, just don’t give them the attention they crave. They are two sad, pathetic loosers who have nothing important going on in their lives, and so to make themselves feel important, they have to make up conspiracy. It is pathetic.

‘The lady with the shopping cart’ does actually walk in front of the camera (which admittedly is weird), but the person who made this propaganda video has cut the part out.

9. white trash

@ 1 & 3 no, it’s totally valid to show the growing insanity and mass hysteria. ‘Those whom the gods wish to destroy they first send mad’ after all. Our society is turning into a James Herbert novel like “The Fog”.

And what do we Brits know about anything anyway? We’re just idiots who don’t have enough guns to be taken seriously.

10. Uncle Beelzebub

@ 5. steg

To this day I’m puzzled about building no.7 I mean how did it fall down?

Well, the spear of destiny that pierced the side of Christ, and which had been used by Adolph Hitler to conquer Europe, which was later stolen by the US government after the war was stored in building 7. It was used as a psychic amplifier to enable the US government to control the world markets from the Trade Centre buildings. When the Trade Centre went, the psychic feedback destroyed building 7. The longer term ramifications of this are visible in the global economic collapse that have taken place since which would never have happened if the spear hadn’t been destroyed.

Alternatively you could look at the report released in November 2008 where the National Institute for Standards and Technology released its final report on the causes of the collapse of 7 World Trade Center. This followed NIST’s August 21, 2008 draft report which included a period for public comments. In its investigation, NIST utilized ANSYS to model events leading up to collapse initiation and LS-DYNA models to simulate the global response to the initiating events. NIST determined that diesel fuel did not play an important role, nor did the structural damage from the collapse of the Twin Towers, nor did the transfer elements (trusses, girders, and cantilever overhangs). But the lack of water to fight the fire was an important factor. The fires burned out of control during the afternoon, causing floor beams near column 79 to expand and push a key girder off its seat, triggering the floors to fail around column 79 on Floors 8 to 14. With a loss of lateral support across nine floors, column 79 buckled – pulling the east penthouse and nearby columns down with it. With the buckling of these critical columns, the collapse then progressed east-to-west across the core, ultimately overloading the perimeter support, which buckled between Floors 7 and 17, causing the remaining portion of the building above to fall downward as a single unit. The fires, fueled by office contents, along with the lack of water, were the key reasons for the collapse.

11. Uncle Beelzebub

The information about building 7 is all there on Wikipedia for everyone to see – with references.

I didn’t give ’em in my post, or reference Wikipedia for that matter, as it would have spoiled the aesthetic effects.

I started that video then realised that the first four minutes hang on the Mail Online. Promptly hit pause.

Truthers with go after anything they can to scream government cover up. There’s a crazy guy in America who does this a lot called Alex Jones. His latest one is that the sinkholes in Florida and the twister in Oklahoma a few days ago was the making of the government because oh my god Obama wants to take your guns away from you.

I watched this full video on the day it happened, and at that point the woman with the trolley walks right by him without a care in the world. I thought WTF?! I have searched today but now cannot find the full video. There’s plenty saying they have the full “RAW” footage, but all of these have been cut to remove her. They are all the same, cut, video. There are it seems only one allowed version of the event. I’m a conspiracy sceptic, but where have all the truly full “RAW” videos gone?

Oh, god, I just clicked the link to their website and it seems Alex Jones is actually a part of it. I guess these people attract each other the way shit attracts flies.

Oh, and I see the Communications Data Bill is back on the agenda, as a result of this, hmm. Our every communication will be monitored to keep us safe by our democratically elected representatives…..Oh, hang on, they only got 32% of the vote….er, what?!

16. Shatterface

@ 1 & 3 no, it’s totally valid to show the growing insanity and mass hysteria. ‘Those whom the gods wish to destroy they first send mad’ after all. Our society is turning into a James Herbert novel like “The Fog”.

What do you mean ‘our society’? They’re American, aren’t they? And there’s no ‘mass hysteria’.

This is just free publicity for a couple of nuts. Are we going to be updated on David Icke’s views on every news story now?

I hope these people will now come out with a story that “Liberal Conspiracy” is a hoax.

I watched this full video on the day it happened, and at that point the woman with the trolley walks right by him without a care in the world. I thought WTF?! I have searched today but now cannot find the full video. There’s plenty saying they have the full “RAW” footage, but all of these have been cut to remove her. They are all the same, cut, video. There are it seems only one allowed version of the event. I’m a conspiracy sceptic, but where have all the truly full “RAW” videos gone?

Burnell ain’t lying, pretty much all the unedited footage has been taken down due to copyright issues and all the remaining vids cut the section where she walks nonchalantly past him.

19. Richard Carey

@ 19 Cylux,

yeah, I heard (on American radio) a longer statement which is not in any of the clips on YouTube.

20. Richard Carey

@ 14 Jenny,

“Oh, god, I just clicked the link to their website and it seems Alex Jones is actually a part of it. ”

FYI Alex Jones is not saying this is a hoax. One of his reporters in London has done a vid saying the hoax claim is bollocks.

21. white trash

“What do you mean ‘our society’? They’re American, aren’t they? And there’s no ‘mass hysteria’.”

By “our society” I refer to the Anglosphere specifically, the West or Occident more generally.

You may choose to be complacent about the decline of Reason in the West, that is your privilege, but I’m far from the only one worried by a proliferating culture of irrationality; everything from crystals and chakras to faith schools or the popularity of conspiracy theories to cover every event.

I’m not saying the event was a hoax. I’m just asking why all the videos have been removed? Except an edited one. Why are there no videos of the killers being confronted by the police, just them laid on the floor after being shot? Are we seriously to believe that no one else in that crowd took video of what was happening? The only video to be found on YouTube is the same edited one. I find that strange.

See this latest new headline:

Woolwich attack: Snoopers’ charter ‘could have prevented machete tragedy’
The Woolwich terrorist attack could potentially have been avoided if the Government had greater powers to monitor people’s internet communications, defence experts have suggested.

Is this not Icke’s “Problem, reaction, solution” in action?

there was one body why do you say ” dead bodies” get your facts straight

25. Uncle Beelzebub

17. Andreas Moser

I hope these people will now come out with a story that “Liberal Conspiracy” is a hoax.

Have you noticed how Liberal Conspiracy always comes out with really peculiar takes on current events? How the reasoning never seems to add up? How pieces on economics always seem to have great gaps that Tim Worstall can drive a bus through? How most of the comments are put up between the hours of 9.00am and 5.00pm when everyone’s at work? How “Sunny” rhymes with “funny”?

It’s because it’s all part of a conspiracy to waste as many people’s time as possible.

Only an idiot believes all conspiracies but it’s a bigger idiot that believes none.

These “truthers” think Obama faked an attack by two young Black men claiming to be Muslim (the Muslim Council promptly pointed out their actions were utterly incompatible with Islam) on a young white member of the British Army for what purpose? If I was Obama and wanting hoax anyone I should set up a fake attack by Mormons or, even better, fundamentalists who were also Tea Party activists, on a black pastor or pacifist. Even from their paranoid viewpoint, it doesn’t make sense.
I avoided saying soldier because it appears that he was a drummer, not an active combatant.

28. white trash

@Paul, 26 “Only an idiot believes all conspiracies but it’s a bigger idiot that believes none.”

Indeed.

“People of the same trade seldom meet together, even for merriment and diversion, but the conversation ends in a conspiracy against the public, or in some contrivance to raise prices. It is impossible indeed to prevent such meetings, by any law which either could be executed, or would be consistent with liberty or justice. But though the law cannot hinder people of the same trade from sometimes assembling together, it ought to do nothing to facilitate such assemblies; much less to render them necessary.”

“We rarely hear, it has been said, of the combinations [unions] of masters, though frequently of those of the workman. But whoever imagines, upon this account, that masters rarely combine, is as ignorant of the world as of the subject.”

Adam Smith

http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Adam_Smith

@ 20. Richard Carey

I meant a part of the website in general, not this hoax specifically.

These two lads are London/Essex born and bred.

THe main one we seen on the video was up in the old bailey in 2006, and also sided with Anjem Choudary. He was brought up in a devout christian family but decided to convert to Islam 10 years ago. Because of his prevous arrests he was watched by Mi5 but deemed to be a loan wolf after he left Choudary extremist guidance.

What we are dealing with is a very confused young man. Young men have the urge to belong to a tribe, whether it be a gang, football hooligans, religion, whatever. Sadly this man was posioned by hate preechers, a tiny miniscule of the minority. He also calls them “our troops” and threatens the average man on the street. He clearly has an identity crisis, he still hasnt found that feeling to belong.

The man is in full casual clobber. Very popular with anyone aged 18 to 35 in South London, the Stone Island hate is a give away to those that know. He’s still rocking his south London style.

At the end of the day he’s a sad little man poisioned by a handful of hate preachers for there own gain. THey didn’t care about him.

Woolwich for those that don’t know is a very hard piece of south east london. The fact he had his back to the old woman, who probably just kept her head down and wanted to go home probably didnt notice the he was tooled up – and besides he was enjoying his camera time he wasn’t gonna chiv and old dear.

The police were excellent in not killing the attackers. They wanted them alive and they got them.

There’s no conspiracy here. The only thing people should be concentrating on is preventing the poisioning of young londoners who get brainwashed by the hate preachers.

Woolwich is standing proud at the moment. All races.

Those that love there area stand together. It wasnt just attack on a soldier, it was an attack on Local people.

Londoners are probably the most tollerent people in the world but push us too far and we will snap and we can be the nastiest group of people on the face of this earth.

Long way to happen before that happens on mass though.

Signed off by a true South-East Londoner.

Also don’t pick and choose certain photos to base your evidence on.

You can clearly see blood on the coat in this pic:

http://cdn4.independent.ie/incoming/article29288958.ece/ALTERNATES/h342/CLEAVER.jpg

and here:

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-Y2L9FYV-ZEA/UZ28BTDZDwI/AAAAAAAB644/7LenGKe_cxc/s640/woolwich-attackers_2570495b.jpg

also here, you can see the blood and the trail of oil probably caused by a ruptured sump of the low tigra as it mounted the curb.

http://beforeitsnews.com/contributor/upload/5385/images/Nicked%20off%20BBC.jpg

Look at all the facts before casting judgement, or if you have a conspiracy theory try to prove it wrong yourself before truly believing in it.

32. Gibberish

“Well, the spear of destiny that pierced the side of Christ, and which had been used by Adolph Hitler”

Are you not talking about the pagan spear of Constantine, first found in a pagan tomb in a temple near St denis, Paris?

It is stored in Vienna under watchful eye of the Hapisburghs and is part of Germanic royalty regalia.

Anyway
Hitler was part Ashke_nazi Jewish – his grandfather was a Vienna Rothschild who got his servant grandmother pregnant.
Stalin was also a Jew (surrounded himself with jewesses and married a few.
Ditto jews Lenin and Marx – its incredible how the Satanist zionist-faux-Jews have tricked us for centuries.

92% of modern Jews have no right to call Israel their homeland. Ditto they have no right to play the anti-semitic card- cos they are NOT semitic. GAZA arabs are more semitic than the Mongolian Ashkenazi (jews)
(anti-semitics deployed to shut up discussion/inconvienient truths coming from peeps who have sussed them)

Stalin’s right hand man, responsible for the Siberian deathcamps was also a jew married to a jewess.

Between them they massacred millions of Orthodox, gypsies & other Jews and tried to kill off Orthodox christianity (they failed – the rejects)
(one of the zionist, fascist dictats is there is no place in society for those who cannot work ie disabled/poor/etc.
They targetted these exact people thru the nazis deathcamps and in ?Russia.

They also tried to wipe out all the brains of society with influence and greatest trust by the public, eg. Doctors, Professors, teachers, etc etc
(MAO + POL-POT were others who carried this exact genocide (loss of knowledge which could be used against the new fascist dictatorship) out)

Still don’t believe – some history

Once you dig far enough and realise thru the Rothschild/Rockefella Ashkenazi-faux-jews and other pretend ‘Christian’ satanist-elitist families of the “Western World” (demon-strated quite clearly in the bible as “Synagogue of Satan” club ‘members’) that the West is dictatorially dominated by such eg all senior cabinet and top politicians are all so-called ‘Jews’ thoroughly misleading the vast majority (who are totally ignorant of this stitch-up) and making our lives hell.
Go back to Khazar history and you will find the same parasites who are in charge today as bankers and parasitical crony corporation owners stealing direct from the taxpayer and avoiding most or all taxes.
Their ancient state was run in capital EN_LIL (LILLY>Rainbow>IRIS >fleur-de-lys) from a Pyramid fort by a Khagan.
(The old meaning of word ‘IRIS’ meant a prism (of rock/crystal) which created a rainbow of colours as the light shone through)
They had a dual-ruling state (think Coalition, Cameron is Ashkenazi) with the other leader GENERAL who was called a BEK.
THE STATE mostly existed in a state of constant warfare with their neighbours (think todays Israel and the zionist-ashkenazi Israeli-US-France-UK faux- dirty wars fought by Christian soldiers under their satanic control)
Media is the old name for the region now known as GERMANY. How many major wars have been started because of Germany. It is because the “Media Mogul” Billionaire Khazars like Murdoch (piss take symbolism of their devilish, pagan, Mongolian ‘mogul’ Ghengis Khan morphed to Ashkenazi Rothschilds) have taken over and manipulate the country into major wars – just like the satanists did with their own country Khazaria (constant battles with neighbours – the result of the Ghengis Khan pagan genes in them, when they committed attrocities, wiping out whole towns and Cities
(think faux-jews Stalin + Hitler, Russian/German genocide atrocities carried out by Ashkenazi Zionist Faux-Jews against Orthodox Christians and lower class Jews.)

The real name and evil source of The (worldwide) Green Party is The Austrian Green party (just where the 2nd world war ended at the Eagles Nest – the loyalist nazi troopers were told to fight on in the Mountains as guerillias until thy finally surrendered.

Their income was largely as parasitical bullies/killers ie they taxed all traders on the silk road routes (crossroads) 10% of all goods carried or the penalty for refusal was death.

Ditto they piratically boarded ships trading up and down The Volga – taking their 10% under penalty of death for refusal.

Now we have had a ‘Captain’ of the UK that they falsely installed in their arrogance, thinking none would suss them out as a BEK symbol of their cultcha!

Quickly Retiring from public view as the secret is out – Ashkenazi Jew BEcK_ham, 007

Whichever main Political party you vote for – they are infiltrated at every level by 5th columnist zionist JEWS (same in France and elsewhere) – which is why the UK is a complete fekk-up.

By the way dont fight with the foreigners they have deliberately let in to foster unharmonious circumstances,

get rid of the cowardly, main problem causers – zionist Jews first!

(Not SEPHARDICS – as these zionist, psychopathic bastards treat seph-jews as second class citizens in ISRAEL, if you didn’t know)

33. Gibberish

You can see how the Askenazi Rothschilds etc hidden in the background, committed another atrocity on the homeland region of Khazaria,

Think Stalingrad and the utter lunacy of orders by leaders on both sides pouring millions of troops into fighting there (Christian soldiers fighting faux-jewish ‘dirty’ wars!

“Army Group A pushed towards the oil-rich area of Baku, and Army Group B advanced

towards Stalingrad and THE VOL_ga”

Entrance stage left – ‘The Protocols of the Elders of Zion’.

I live near Woolwich (closer to the Bexley area) and I think it’s important to highlight why the local crowd were standing by ‘chillin’, acting calm and interacting. It’s because they’re totally accustomed to witnessing crime and street incidents during the daylight. Not extreme as beheading, of course, but there are regular incidents (fights, robbery, drugs, etc) occurring in Woolwich; mostly in broad daylight.

Although it looks bizarre, the lady with the cart is no conspiracy but in fact a usual Woolwich resistant trying to get on with her life. On Sky News, they interviewed another random women (similar age)and she came across with the same attitude of continuing the day as normal. If I didn’t know the Woolwich area, then understandably I would be puzzled to why there are a group of resistants standing near a murderer that’s holding a machete. As a local myself, I’m not surprised.

These accusations are ridiculous and absurd. You should have some respect for the soldier who lost his life in such horrible circumstance. There was no blood, because hid body was dragged from one place to the middle of the road in public view. Research before you come up with some ridiculous views. consider the feelings of people around you. This was a disgusting act of violence, and shouldn’t be tolerated. READ, RESERCH AND THINK.

37. Gibberish

@ Biotech

Find out about Tavistock (london)
MK ULTRA > Monarch brainwashing in the usa (which is a spin-off)
Remember the false-flag bus-bomb was in symbolic symbolism to themselves in “Tavistock Square”

Where’s the zionist jew connection?
Tavi is a pet form of the hebrew name “David” (Christ popped up in the davidic family in Israel)
Note they blew the bus up opposite the BMA headquarters – Christ was a major healer and medic!

Dr Mengele of the death camps carried out the satanist programs on victims then was flown over to the usa to carry on.
He experimented in LSD and other psychotropics to brainwash thousands. His code name as a hypnotist was
DR GREEN (a name known to thousands)

They mainly used the films Wizard of Oz and as ‘trigger’ programs used to pigeon hole various programs in people’s brains.

ie for suicide if caught during a phsy-op for CIA, MI5 etc

The CIA etc fund/run the Muslim Yemen etc terrorist camps and brainwash the dumb-asses out there whilst training.

All it takes is one trigger word on a mobile for these people to flip

Golem-Zombies (terrorists)
Rabbis animate them with the hebrew “emit” (???) mark. The deutsch mark?

(Rothschild letter to brother – “family members are like the inner workings of a clock” = timeemit

There is a similar hubris theme in Frankenstein, The Sorcerer’s Apprentice, and some golem-derived stories in popular culture. The theme also manifests itself in R.U.R. (Rossum’s Universal Robots), Karel ?apek’s 1921 play which coined the term robot; the play was written in Prague, and while Capek denied that he modeled the robot after the Golem, there are many similarities in the plot.

If like these idiots say it was staged… There would be no mistakes to point out, when will people realise in Britain and America that we are blessed to have two of the greatest governments the world has ever seen .. Not only do they know whats best for the masses they see the big picture and act for the greater good of many. Anyone slagging our government or secret service off should go and live in a third world country and see how much they like it .. They’d soon wish they was back in good old England or the USA..

These guys are so quick to jump on the bandwagon & add their retarded egotistical opinions. I like to know the truth about important things just like the next man but these guys are simply obsessed with attempting to pick holes in things, they dont know when to stop & open their eyes to the reality staring them in the face.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vhtV7qkuNnk

The biggest conspiracy site in the world is debunking this bullshit hoax theory.

41. Shatterface

I take it that Sunny won’t be publishing any more Beatrix Campbell articles now since she played a prominent part in the equally wacky ‘Satanic ritual abuse’ hoax which – inlike this particualr example of moonbattery – actually caused real harm to families by implanting memories in vulnerable children and devestating families?

42. Uncle Beelzebub

@ 41 Shatterface

Oh I do hope so.

43. white trash

Never mind the apparent free-lancers, we can even find the state apparatus of a Western power openly promoting conspiracy theory:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/may/23/israeli-report-denies-death-al-dura

These so called ‘Truthers’ are idiots (very polite version of what I would like to call them) and lack any kind of respect and human decency.

A young man genuinely lost his life and his family and friends are really grieving.If these ‘Truthers’ acually cared about the truth they would do their research then they would know that the body was dumped in the road after the two men had attacked the solider on the pavemanet and would see from pictures that there is loads of blood on the pavement.

‘Truthers’ accuse the media of being subjective and manipulating facts when they are blatantly guilty of the same

I just can’t believe the lack of respect for life by both the attackers and the ‘Truthers’

Good on you Sunny for challenging them

What these Americans don’t seem to understand is that the council in this country draw arrows, dots, and other markings on the ground for survey’s, constant road works, cleaning, mending, etc, etc.

They seem to think they are ‘stage marks’, when really you find these marking on EVER street in London. WAIT! are we part of a giant Truman show???

Wake up sheeple! hahahaha

47. TheTruthWins

These events are destroying souls using collective pain and emotional impact to persuade the nation to sacrifice their freedom for protection from these so called ‘terrorists’. Look beyond the ovbious people, your souls are at stake.

A Hoax?? This has to be a joke post right?
Those arrows that are on the road side in the photos are for workmen! The highways agency paints them on roads and pavements all over the UK… they indicate spots where they can or can’t drill. They show where there are gas, electric and water mains.
When people witness a horrific attack, they usually go in to shock, or are in disbelief that they’re actually seeing the things in front of them.
The calmness of the attackers would have been odd to witnesses, they’ll perhaps have had a false sense of security in their subconscious upon seeing women approaching the suspects and being left unharmed.
What if the lady who “casually” walks by has come from a country where scenes like that were daily? What if she physically can’t walk any quicker to get out of the way? What if she too is in shock and was originally stood further down the road and then instinct kicked in and she had to get home as quickly as possible??
Hoax is a terrible and ridiculous title to put on this. A young man, and father lost his life and you’re pointing out arrows on the road and criticising eye witnesses?!

These “Truthers” are idiots. I’m assuming that if they’re ever witness to a crime, the road will be spotless, there will be rivers of blood flowing and they’ll be running faster than Ussain Bolt to get away then!

What if the lady who “casually” walks by has come from a country where scenes like that were daily?
—–
Would have looked like the aftermath of car crash to anyone approaching from her direction and whilst looking at that instead of straight ahead she wouldt have seen the knives in his hand until she was very close at which point the confusion of knife man giving interview to camera kicks in and shes past the scene before shes even thought the first “uh”…

At least in a country where that kind of scene is routein the on lookers on the corner there no doubt would not have let someone oblivious to the situation walk on by them and directly into it.

I’m sorry to rain on your parade, but I’ve seen footage of the killer speaking to the camera and the old woman walking past him. No one has cut anything away, it’s editing, the news doesn’t have time for every detail it’s supposed to be concise and informative not drawn out and irrelevant.

As for the claims that the man with the beanie has a South African accent, pretending to be British (as stated on the site), that’s rubbish too. I’m South African, and he sounds nothing like anyone around here.

I don’t think what happened was a hoax, what happened was obviously awful and tragic. However, it is clear the media has altered footage and missold information in order to create hatred. Such a shame.

Everything’s a hoax.The world isn’t real – it’s all been invented to fool everyone.
This message isn’t real. It’s been put up by the British government to make conspiracy theorists look stupid.
I’m not real. I’ve been invented by the government special secret service MI7, which no-one knows about, not even me, because I’m not real anyway.
You’re not real. You are a figment of your own imagination, which isn’t real either.
This is what they want you to believe, but we know better. Or, at least we would know better if we were real, but we’re a hoax. It’s all just propaganda, even this message.
God it’s all so confusing.

Pointing out the ‘stage marks’ on the road and pavement is particularly ridiculous 1. You only have ever marks like that on theatre stages and in film studios where you have huge cameras.
2. All roads have these marks – they’re put there by the multitude of utility companies – water pipes, electric cables, fibre-optic cables etc.

I’m with you.. this whole thing stinks..
Definitely a bit of carefully scripted propaganda. Too many things are ‘wrong’ about this.
I’m interested to see what direction this whole thing will take though.. who needs invading at the moment?

How can these scum listen to the sobs of his poor wife today, or think about his 2 year old child without a father, and continue to spew their vile mental illness. These conspiratards know absolutely no limits to their sick, deluded self-promoting evil.

Next, these guys will be claiming that the Oklahoma tornado was a hoax.

58. Speaker for the Commons

Once you study the Masons and their zionist overlords,

their “two Johns”
PARALLEL teachings

You will understand the significance of the red tramlines and space marked out for bus stop which they dragged the body into the middle of.

After being drawn in at the lower degrees signing their souls away to a cult purporting to only to good with ‘fellowship'(smegol)

– They go ‘satanic’ at the 18th degree (think Tiger on a golf course) which is 6+6+6

I also believe it has all been staged since I watched the interview. God people just believe anything the media shows. Wake up people!

Watch the video of the heartbroken family and you’ll realise the extent that it is not a hoax.

61. Speaker for the Commons

The other link to the Cabal-Occultists is the symbolism of the Date 22-5

There are 22 letters in the Hebrew Alphabet used in The Bible.

E=5 which to masons = “Windows” (hello zionist billionaire Bill)

In the folklore

The Prague-Ashkenazi Rabbi removes the ‘E’ of Emet(hebrew=”truth”) from the zombie-Golem forehead to disable it.
Deactivated zombie becomes ‘dead’ which is what MET means in Hebrew (ommitting the ‘E’).
> return to line 1

62. Speaker for the Commons

Now you know about cabala E’s (a good) and ‘windows’
(which let in light ‘symbolism’)

Spot the E EE in
Chris and ‘Sheree’ Geo!
Truth frequency is

– the occult say or do spells three times ‘EEE’ for biggest effect (in their warped minds).

I do believe that the poor solider has lost his life may god rest his soul, but I also believe that this was staged our government are the true murderers, these two men are just puppets of the government. All the signs are there yet we choose to ignore and have faith in our untrusted media.

64. Speaker for the Commons

Bet you feel right plonkers dropping E’s supplied by the zionist overlords at raves and clubs heh heh.

By ingesting the E you become Met or dead (occultly symbolically a zombie)

The synth drug in those E’s is exactly the same as found in the Egyptian lilly
– wot Egyptians got out of their skulls on back in the old shin’ar days.

The other pee-take is word ‘chill’ – cos of the masonic-cabala of ‘ll’.

The elites k_ee_p wild cattle at “Chill_ington Castle”
– the yiddish demeaning word ‘GOY’ is basically comparing you to cattle

33 degr_ee mason-satanist Tony Blair killed a few thousand cattle,
lined ’em up in masonic “parallel lines” either side of a runway and burnt them for the occult symbolism.

Icke and that nutter Alex Jones (JA occultly backwards) are both Tavistock-Monarch brain-washed ‘shills’/govt contolled plants in my view.
(spot the GREEN (mengele-Dr GREEN-hypnotist) on the icke website for instance! Icke was also a founding member of the UK GREEN Party (coven-try)!)

One major outstanding feature of the brainwashing is a huge memory retention, which they both have, as they go on and on ranting.

Icke etc can easily waffle for 12hrs non-stop at his seminars with minimal prompting!
(subliminal programming of audience going on at these?)

reminds me of the south park episode ” the mystery of the urinal deuce “

I’m all for asking questions and often looking up the other side of a story out of interest but sometimes these truthers are as think as pig sh*t.
Truthers seem to have watched far too many films which are there for entertainment and not realism, they expect tons of blood to be everywhere and hysterical bystanders gnashing their teeth, screaming and passing out as in a medieval painting or biblical scene, this does not happen in the real world.
All tragic scenes have casual bystanders and they are talking less about fight or flight responses now and more about flight, flight or freeze – freeze not being some am-dram (amateur dramatic) “frozen to the spot in terror” reaction but a reaction where you neither flee nor fight nor remove yourself from the situation. The brain does amazing things to protect individuals from extreme and distressing situations, which is why those in extreme situations report that time slows down, it is also why short term memories are harder to form and why eyewitness accounts in extreme situations differ so much at the same scene and are not very reliable which is why courts depend on harder evidence than what people saw.
Truthers want to have a basic chat to people to anyone who works in emergency services. Casual by standers at every scene, people filming things, walking past, people are calm, I was at a scene where a chap jumped to his death from a multi-storey building and was one of those who called the emergency services, guess what, the crowd around him with me was calm (no women passing out or gnashing their teeth) and there was hardly any blood at the scene despite his fatal injuries. In fact I challenge Truthers to show me a picture of an incident from a local car accident to pub fight to a bombing to pubic execution (e.g abroad) where there isn’t a single bystander hanging around and taking pictures. We wouldn’t have the word “bystander” if it wasn’t such a natural reaction at situations.
The body does not always have these dramatic bleed out scenes as shown in films, smaller lacerations can seem bleed heavily like when you cut your finger in the kitchen but you can’t always extrapolate that to big injuries. In extreme attacks and particularly when limbs are lost the vessels constrict to conserve it’s blood and keep the heart and brain going. However in this case there was plenty of blood but it’s at the site of his killing. He was then moved into the middle of the road after he has bleed out at the original kill site so that is why there is no blood in the pictures everyone is questioning – review the kill site pictures and you’ll see there is plenty of blood. Blood stains rarely show on dark clothing which is why you only see blood on the attacker’s hands, I suspect there is plenty of blood on the attackers clothing. As I said these truthers need to stop wanting everything to be nice and neat and spend some time with the emergency services who have nothing to hide. While I am uncomfortable with the excessive news coverage on this story, I do believe that a couple of unbalanced individuals stabbed and hacked a solider to death on the streets of London and then hung around in the hope of a “death by cop” ending. They will go to trial and they will go to prison for it, end of. My thoughts to the family and friends of the man killed.

Sorry to piss on your parade, but They’re right. It was all very very bad acting from very bad actors. Wake up and smell the coffee, the new world order is brewing. When you watch the news you are just being told everything that THEY want you to know. The key to this is research. There are so many anomolies with all of these stories. Something very wrong is going on and people need to stop being so blind. Think for yourselves, question everything.

@Sarah

I’m so intrigued by how brain washed you are, in fact your the fine example of how our government want us to be. People would believe as they choose, just go ahead and watch and believe your media. I’m sure there’s a reason why this was orchestrated, we shall all find out soon I’m guessing.

You guys are fucking dumb, and that video is utter bullshit! Why can’t you just accept that this happened without making up some hoax/conspiracy shit? Morons

70. Uncle Beelzebub

Oi Sunny.

See what you’ve done with your fucking post?

You’ve attracted the REAL bat-shit fucking crazy mo-fo’s.

This OP’s a fucking kook magnet!

@Tinytim

Your use of language clearly proves your another barbaric example of what our government needs.

72. Jimmy Saville's child-touching ghost

Best libcon thread ever. Only a thread featuring an appearance by Andrew Kadir Buxton or Cugar Brant could top this one.

Sorry to piss on your parade, but They’re right. It was all very very bad acting from very bad actors. Wake up and smell the coffee, the new world order is brewing. When you watch the news you are just being told everything that THEY want you to know. The key to this is research.
—–

Youtube research!!!!!!!!!

When I happened to glance at the news on that afternoon to take a short break from what I was doing and seen it as a breaking story complete with picture of body in the middle of the road I said to a freind of mine its wrong they do that, there is no way the family has been informed yet and these pictures are right there…

Im not looking she says, I avoid things like that because one day I might turn out to know them…kinda fucked up that she did.

@Jenny

“Brainwashed” tend to be the stock retort that truthers use. I am open minded but there is nothing to suggest this is a hoax at this point. The markings on the road are used by utility companes and are common place (they are not “mark ups” for actors), the soilder bled out at the kill site and was moved to the middle of the road, to suggest that bystanders are solid proof of a hoax is bizarre as I said please show me pictures of an incident with no bystanders anywhere at all, finally to point fingers at differences in witness accounts shows a complete lack of understanding of how the brain works in extreme situations so crying “hoax” the minute witness accounts differ is just silly. If different evidence arrises I am always open to changing my mind. Nobody should take everthing in the media at face value but at the same time no one should take everything on every conspiricy site at face value either, as @Wolf says, question everything why would hoax theories be exempt feom questioning?… that would be the pinnicle of hypocrosy if you where to expect an exemption. I’m unlikely to be “a fine example of how our government wants us to be” as I’ve been involved in public demonstations on issues I’m passionate about and am probably on some database somewhere but hey ho 🙂

This is not a hoax it can’t be and how the hell can sandy hook be a hoax when children are dead where could they hide all these people that are supposed to be dead and expect everyone who knows about it to agree to keep there mouths shut… Pathetic, anyone who says this is a hoax is being disrespectful to the soldier a d his family and the whole country for that matter cos it’s effected us all

Quotes from BBC article. Read carefully. Are these really witnesses? Look at the destroyed blue car and the undamaged road sign. The Media trots out a continual stream of lies. The victims are those who swallow them.

“Witness Graham Wilders told the BBC he had arrived on the scene to find a car crashed into a wall and a man on the ground.

“Two people were lying over him and I thought they were trying to resuscitate him,” he said.

But Mr Wilders said he had driven on to park his car, and when he had returned another witness had told him the two men had been stabbing the man on the ground.”

Thomas, another witness who contacted the BBC, said: “I got there minutes after it happened because you could hear gunshots from Woolwich High Street.

“Basically two men carried out an axe attack on a young army cadet walking along the street, by the looks of things the police responded and then shot them in front of the public, at the same time I couldn’t really tell if the cadet was fatally or not hurt as police were crowded around him.”

According to senior Whitehall sources the people carrying out the attack were heard to say: “Allahu Akbar [God is Great]”, BBC political editor Nick Robinson reported.

Why should anyone think it needed to be staged? Whilst the murder rates in the UK are low, murder does happen on a regular basis, just as GBH and wounding with intent do. There are areas where there is above average violence and people react accordingly. Why should we expect violence to be evenly distributed? Nothing else is.

We have murders for all sorts of reasons from domestic violence to paranoid delusions, so the idea that a young hothead with a distorted view of religion would commit a murder isn’t so odd. It was bound to happen sooner or later. It’s just that people wouldn’t be saying it was faked in the same way if he was, say, killing a blind man and screaming ‘the judgement of the green spaghetti monster be upon you’ or killing a woman with a baby buggy and screaming ‘fathers rights!’

Some interesting reading here:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-22652051

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2013/may/25/woolwich-suspect-kenya-torture

I’m not a conspiracy nut, but this whole case does appear to be suspect. I’m not doubting for one minute that the poor guy was savagely murdered on the street. But it does seem there is now an agenda to this, and that is the COMMUNICATIONS DATA BILL.

The UK government will now push through this bill which will mean surveillance of our every online action, our emails, messages, sites visited, etc, all stored and accesible to who ever is in power at the time. To keep us safe apparently.

At the moment they keep up the pretence of benevolence, but they are far from that, and in 10 years time what kind of regime may be in power, and with access to your every communication, including this one?

Why has my post been deleted?
I simply posted 2 links to British newspapers showing that the killer had Mi5 links, and that the Communications Data Bill was now hot on the agenda following this incident. So where has the post gone?

Oh, sorry it’s there. Paranoid, moi? Non.

81. Dislecksick

I am a dislecksick but why is hoax in quotations? Is this really neccessary?

82. Speaker for the Commons

“Tavistock” hypnotising-Brainwashing = Mi5/6
it’s off-shoot = MK Ultra/now called Monarch = CIA

CIA run skools in South America (all under control of satanist-zionists by the way)
One of their CIA skools produced three major South American dictators who caused genocide, war, strife, torture and death of hundreds of thousands of mostly innocent citizens.
(current pope is caught up in this crap! Funny how the last pope was a hitler youth too!)

Remember, thousands of Nazis disappeared (and trillions in wealth they had stolen-never recovered) over 60 U-boats missing after the war
Are their grand children helping run the show down there?

—————————————-
“Tavistock is the paranoid child of the Liepzig and Frankfurt Schools of critical thinking and behaviorism.
The psychodynamics of Freud and Jung are its godparents.

But Tavistock’s birth mother was a whore — a propaganda front called Wellingon House, known as “The Lie Factory.”

(Don’t forget your “Hunter Wellies” for whatever brainwashing festival you are going to attend – ‘Hunter’ is a symbolic word for Mason)
(remember the zionist-masonic para_ll_el lines in LL – think Twin Towers ll – We_ll_ington)

We live in duality.

Using ‘time’ as their fulcrum, Tavistock explorations in ‘crafting reality’ became exploitations, selling Utopian idealism to the New Left and patriotic Homeland Security to the born-again Right.

Pitting them eternally against one another is a neo-con racket that molds all party themes. The game is collapsing the traditional world. They employ both religious and secular currents in the same way, playing both sides against the middle.”

Turning ‘Great Game’ strategies on the public, Tavistock’s agenda transcends institutional boundaries, hoodwinking us about the nature of reality with stealth psystrat, media and cultural tactics while imposing and maintaining control through the collective psyche. The seat of power has switched from a pyramidal to a holographic power structure.”

http://tavistockagenda.iwarp.com/

B_EE_lzebub (Masonic/Govt shi_ll thread disrupter) deliberately resorted to posting filth-swearing trying to get this thread deleted. Copy the posts before they delete them!

SUE is an Eastern Star mason-occultist (CC=33)
Post 77=GG
(Modern faux-Mason’s false multi-GODhead
“G-rrrreat Architect”)

83. peter wright

No camera shake whatsoever? This guy with blood over his hands and face (but NOT on his clothes), who has just allegedly hacked to death another human being right in front of you, stands in front of you maybe 4 feet away, and you are not even trembling and you film him? Too many weird things going on here that makes acceptance at face value impossible. 5 minutes into the BBC’s hysterical reporting I knew something smelt bad about the whole thing.

I’ve made a post to this site, and it has been deleted. I simply pointed out the link between this dreadful killing and the push for the Communications Data Bill to be reintroduced.

No camera shake whatsoever? This guy with blood over his hands and face (but NOT on his clothes), who has just allegedly hacked to death another human being right in front of you, stands in front of you maybe 4 feet away, and you are not even trembling and you film him? Too many weird things going on here that makes acceptance at face value impossible.
—–

What are you actualy saying?

I’ve seen some bad things stabbings ect, and remember 1 particular 1 where a family member was stabbed/ hacked by 3 guys with similar knives, in a house and he was stabbed close to 100 times.
The blood splatters across the room and amount of blood was unbelievable, it was obviously it was from where the knives where going in and out.
I too expected to see more blood, the other guy with a tan jacket on has no blood on it, I expect trying to chop someone’s head off with those knives a very messy job and doubt they spent time shaprening them.

Why is 1 of the girls standing over the body putting her middle finger up to the camera? Looks like she’s on the phone until you zoom in

That guy called Gibberish – so much self-awareness in his moniker.

All this criticism of the ‘false flag videos’ is fine and dandy but you’re not actually criticising the facts such as the movement of the tent, the passers by taking pictures etc. Sure, to fake it is nearly impossible but explain the inconsistencies. A crazed man with a GUN kills someone and you merely stand and watch/

OK now leaving aside the ‘how’ let’s look at why it might be a fake.

Kill someone in the name of Islam.
Mainstream media says it’s not part of Islam KNOWING bloggers such as jihadwatch.org will say it is all part of Islam.
Thus building a case against Islam – or at least the extremists – by framing them.

Now that DOES make sense.

Which leaves the ‘how’. A lot of people would have to be in on it, true but is it totally impossible? 1.2bn Muslims believe the Koran to be word of Allah. Is that totally impossible?

I think it’s irrisponsible not to question what is put in front of us, and blindly follow what we’re told by media.

I also think these ‘truthers’ stink of typical conspiracy theorists, and of all of the hoax theories I’ve seen relating to this event, this is by far the most ridiculous.

Having said that, I do have a lot of questions which remain unanswered, the most prominant of which being why the guy in the beige coat has no blood on him, and why I haven’t seen a single image of this apparent gun. I do question what I’m being shown, and if someone can give me a valid explanation, I will accept it – such as the red/orange hands thing, comparing it with the red/orange lines on the road. Or the reason why it took police so long to get there – a friend explained to me that this probably was a valid (unnacceptable in my mind, yet probably truthful) response time for an armed police response vehicle. As I’ve said, when someone provides an explanation for my questions, I will happily accept it 🙂

I’ve looked through countless images of both of the attackers, and I’m yet to see blood on either of their clothing. Hacking someone to death is messy, and in some of the eye-witness accounts (not all!) these men ran over the victim (which I would assume means he was already bleeding), then physically dragged him into the road, and hacked him to death – so why is there no blood visable on the guy with the beige jacket?

I’m also pretty disapointed that the only people I’ve seen being offensive about this are the people claiming it’s not a hoax. There’s no need for name calling or abuse, if people are claiming that something is a hoax at least it shows they’re thinking rather than blindly following what they’re told without researching themselves – even if it is proved that they’re wrong.

90. Charlieman

@89. carla: “I’ve looked through countless images of both of the attackers, and I’m yet to see blood on either of their clothing. Hacking someone to death is messy, and in some of the eye-witness accounts (not all!) these men ran over the victim (which I would assume means he was already bleeding), then physically dragged him into the road, and hacked him to death – so why is there no blood visable on the guy with the beige jacket?”

When the results of a scientific experiment are unexpected, the conductors look at initial expectations to see why they didn’t come true. The premises for the experiment were wrong.

In this case, it is assumed that the attackers will be covered in blood because blood squirts all over the place from some types of injury. We’ve seen it in the movies so it must be true! Or we could face up to reality, acknowledging that what we imagine should happen is not always true.

@Charlieman “In this case, it is assumed that the attackers will be covered in blood because blood squirts all over the place from some types of injury. We’ve seen it in the movies so it must be true!”

If you can’t be bothered with researching from a medical approach, just look up images on google of someone who’s been hacked to death. It’s pretty messy in all of them. Yes, I did some research before questioning this, other than what’s “in the movies”.

I’m not talking about “some kinds of injuries”. When someone is hacked to death, it is inevitable that at least one artery will be hit. From GSCE, A-Level, and HE level Biology, I have been taught from a fairly young age that severing an artery will cause blood to spray, not just flow as with a capillary or venous bleed.

But for the sake of arguement lets say that they did manage to avoid hitting any arteries. There was blood on the path, and a drag line where he had been dragged into the road, showing that the man was indeed bleeding. Surely some of that blood would have stained their jackets? Unless they dragged him really, *really* carefully, which somehow I doubt.

@charlieman: “In this case, it is assumed that the attackers will be covered in blood because blood squirts all over the place from some types of injury. We’ve seen it in the movies so it must be true! Or we could face up to reality, acknowledging that what we imagine should happen is not always true.”

If you don’t want to look at it from a medical point of view, just go on google images and look up someone who’s been hacked to death. It’s pretty messy.

When someone is hacked to death, it is inevitable that at least one artery will be hit. From GCSE, A-Level and HE level Biology, I have always been taught that severing an artery will cause blood to spray (as opposed to flow, as with capillary or venous bleeding). That’s not “what we’ve seen in the movies”, or “what we imagine”. That’s real life, taught to us from a fairly young age.

But for arguments sake, lets assume they did not hit any arteries, and that the blood did not spray. There are noticable blood marks in front of the car, and a distinctive blood drag-line, where the victim was dragged into the road – showing that the man was indeed bleeding. Surely some of that blood would have stained their clothing?

I do appreciate your response 🙂 at least you’ve tried to give an explanation, but you just seem to be saying “just accept it, stop questioning, there’s no reason for there to be no blood… there just isn’t”, which I apologise, but I can’t accept that. I’ve always been taught to think about, and form my own opinions on, everything, based on the evidence presented to me.

@90 charlieman: “In this case, it is assumed that the attackers will be covered in blood because blood squirts all over the place from some types of injury. We’ve seen it in the movies so it must be true! Or we could face up to reality, acknowledging that what we imagine should happen is not always true.”

If you don’t want to look at it from a medical point of view, just go on google images and look up someone who’s been hacked to death. It’s pretty messy.

When someone is hacked to death, it is inevitable that at least one artery will be hit. From GCSE, A-Level and HE level Biology, I have always been taught that severing an artery will cause blood to spray (as opposed to flow, as with capillary or venous bleeding). That’s not “what we’ve seen in the movies”, or “what we imagine”. That’s real life, taught to us from a fairly young age.

But for arguments sake, lets assume they did not hit any arteries, and that the blood did not spray. There are noticable blood marks in front of the car, and a distinctive blood drag-line, where the victim was dragged into the road – showing that the man was indeed bleeding. Surely some of that blood would have stained their clothing?

I do appreciate your response 🙂 at least you’ve tried to give an explanation, but you just seem to be saying “just accept it, stop questioning, there’s no reason for there to be no blood… there just isn’t”, which I apologise, but I can’t accept that. I’ve always been taught to think about, and form my own opinions on, everything, based on the evidence presented to me.

wondering why my comment isn’t showing up :/

@90 charlieman: “In this case, it is assumed that the attackers will be covered in blood because blood squirts all over the place from some types of injury. We’ve seen it in the movies so it must be true! Or we could face up to reality, acknowledging that what we imagine should happen is not always true.”

If you don’t want to look at it from a medical point of view, just go on google images and look up someone who’s been hacked to death. It’s pretty messy.

When someone is hacked to death, it is inevitable that at least one artery will be hit. From GCSE, A-Level and HE level Biology, I have always been taught that severing an artery will cause blood to spray (as opposed to flow, as with capillary or venous bleeding). That’s not “what we’ve seen in the movies”, or “what we imagine”. That’s real life, taught to us from a fairly young age.

But for arguments sake, lets assume they did not hit any arteries, and that the blood did not spray. There are noticable blood marks in front of the car, and a distinctive blood drag-line, where the victim was dragged into the road – showing that the man was indeed bleeding. Surely some of that blood would have stained their clothing?

I do appreciate your response 🙂 at least you’ve tried to give an explanation, but you just seem to be saying “just accept it, stop questioning, there’s no reason for there to be no blood… there just isn’t”, which I apologise, but I can’t accept that. I’ve always been taught to think about, and form my own opinions on, everything, based on the evidence presented to me.

Sorry if my last comment shows up multiple times, not intentional. I can’t see it at all.

@ Carla

Are you really so dumb to believe that they go to all the trouble of staging a “hoax” but forget to put some blood on the victims clothes? I.e the first thing that you would do if portraying a knife attacker.

Conspiracy theory’s are sometimes quite clever but this one does not even make me think twice about its plausibility

The truth will come out in the end
the women walking past with her shopping another women laying down beside the beheaded body or dead dying soldiers body
anyone witnessing or seeing that horror show will definitely need treatment counseling of some sort
most people who have witnessed killings in war do not sleep to well as we all know, The lady who was the hero seemed really calm to me after witnessing that horrible brutal crime,
that is something i would find not easy to talk about let alone seeing or live with like thousands of others i am sure

98. Dissident

Gawd, they all come out the woodwork don’t they.

How about this then:

This crime came at a very convenient time, to distract away from IDS been challenged to live on £53 a week for a year, the privatisation of the NHS and the IMF criticising George Osbournes failed austerity policies.

I invented this btw, which probably indicates how conspiracy theories come about, you read into events your own knowledge. After all, events like this cannot possibly be independent of what you know, can they?

…The data & communications act adds lots of flammable gas to that of course!

99. Paint on floor

With regards to “why is there an arrow on the ground”. The author on video has a North American accent, so may be unfamiliar with the UK.

There are a number of organisations who spray mark the street (and it annoys me). Often it is utility companies, one guy will do a site survey and mark it. Some days later the people who dig up the roads will use the marking. Local councils also spray paint markers, to help the people who paint lines on the street (e.g. yellow lines or red bus routes etc… ).

————-
As for the woman walking past with the shopping cart, it does not surprise me. May be she does not know what is happening….

————-

But I noticed this also, why is there no blood on the jacket…..


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