Apart from getting the statistics wrong, your article seems to be criticizing an interpretation of text rather the point it’s getting across.
Emer O’Toole was making the point not to be so quick in generalising India of its wrong-doings when we can be just as bad

“In fact a retired police officer told the BBC in 2011 that the majority of crimes against women, including rape, were not registered by police. He estimated only one in nine cases of violence against women reported to the police were registered, because they were told to “keep the crime figures low”.”

But we’re repeatedly told that only one in ten rapes (or one in three, one in five, whatever number it is) get reported to the police here in England too.

So you can’t pooh pooh the Indian reported one when comparing it to the UK reported one and then also claim that many Indian rapes go unreported but not make the same point about the English ones.

As to why India has such horribly high rape rates (and the other problems you mention, like selective abortion etc) it’s still largely a male dominated society, where women are generally seen as less than fully human. Change that and the other things will change with it.

As they did here.

@ 2 in terms of UK stats, in 2011 according to the BCS over a period of six years, only 15% of rapes are reported in the UK.

Sunny, thanks for this article and for the round up of what Indian women are saying about the rape. I’ve found them really informative.

Hi Sunny. Does Liberal Conspiracy not have any women that could write a piece on this? Or do the ladies need the men to come in and protect them?

Oliver: Emer O’Toole was making the point not to be so quick in generalising India of its wrong-doings when we can be just as bad

But the UK and USA are NOT just as bad on the stats and their laws and procedures – and it is ignorant to say so.

Tim Worstall: But we’re repeatedly told that only one in ten rapes (or one in three, one in five, whatever number it is) get reported to the police here in England too.

No, you’re missing the point. Their point is one in ten of cases reported to the police ARE ACTUALLY REGISTERED. That doesn’t even begin to count cases that aren’t reported at all.

If you think ‘why wouldn’t cases be registered’? Say hello to the Indian police…

A teenaged girl in this Punjab district, who alleged that she was gang-raped last month, has committed suicide, police said Thursday.
…
In her suicide note, recovered by police, the victim alleged that the local police officers had failed to register a case of rape despite her complaint. She accused them of trying to pressurize her for a compromise, humiliating her and asking her uncomfortable questions by calling her to the police station repeatedly.

http://in.news.yahoo.com/gang-raped-punjab-girl-commits-suicide-police-pressure-154010278.html

Oh hai Clara’s Bow, again, are these informed articles we linked this morning not good enough for you?
http://liberalconspiracy.org/2013/01/02/what-indian-women-have-been-saying-about-the-delhi-rape-case/
I’m merely batting away idiocy in the UK media. If you want to read Indian women on the case, feel free to click the link above.

“No, you’re missing the point. Their point is one in ten of cases reported to the police ARE ACTUALLY REGISTERED. That doesn’t even begin to count cases that aren’t reported at all.”

Fair enough, I hadn’t grasped that.

Another good response and again one that exposes the poverty of research undertaken by those like Ener O’Toole who write to condemn their perception of a “rape culture” without mentioning the changes in official policy and practice relating to crimes of violent sexual assault.

Here is the Director of Public Prosecutions, Keir Starmer QC, speaking in 2012 about the achievements of the previous 4 years and the challenges ahead. From his speech entitled “Prosecuting Violence against Women and Girls – improving culture, confidence and convictions”:

“We have achieved a great deal in recent years. We now deliver justice for 15,000 more women each year than we did just four years ago. And we do so within a different culture – one which challenges myths and stereotypes and should improve confidence in the criminal justice system.

“But while more than 300,000 women are sexually assaulted each year, while only one in ten women who experience serious sexual assault report it to the police, and while conviction rates remain lower for these attacks than for other crimes, none of us can afford to stop working to improve further.”

http://www.cps.gov.uk/news/articles/prosecuting_violence_against_women_and_girls_-_improving_culture_confidence_and_convictions/

Not sure I’ve heard of a similar case anywhere else to be honest, where a woman is gang raped on a moving bus to the degree where her insides fall out, then chucked off the bus and then attempted to be run over by the bus driver.
I completely fail to see how this has turned into a debate about racism simply because people are appalled and want change. I’ve never been to India, in fact I am fairly clueless about the place beyond what I see in the media, and from all the protests that I have seen taking place, I think it’s fair to conclude that the people of India feel quite confident that there is a problem.
I do agree with Sunny’s suggestion that there is an undertone of patronising superiority assuming that India is populated with a pitiful species that must be protected against its own inferior capabilities no matter what. Quite repulsive.

Hi Sunny. I have indeed seen the other piece. It’s nice that you put it together so we could see what the ladies had to say. I know me and my female friends would never have the wit to think to look on the internet to find this for ourselves. I do think you’ve missed the point though. I and many other women didn’t read the original Owen Jones at all as a “everything in India is fine we have the problems” piece which seemed to be the tone of your original article. I felt that essentially you took the headline and argued against that and I’m not sure that headline accurately represented what followed. Rather than diminishing what happened and happens in India, I felt it was much more of a warning not to let us fall into the trap of thinking horrible things only happen ‘over there’.
Having said that if this extreme and unusual incident opens up debate about the treatment of women in India then that can only be a good thing.

Of the British media’s coverage of the Delhi gang-rape case, a key aspect that has annoyed me is commentary by (white) people who’ve never been to India, very anxious to defend it from imaginary hordes of racist white people.

Again, I don’t see what being white has to do with it. Its not just white people who will cry ‘Racist!’ when another culture is criticised and I don’t see why this is worse than, in this instance, Indians playing the ‘anti-colonial’ card.

Nor should comment be the monoply of people who have been to India: not everyone lives a jetset lifestyle.

Clara’s Bow:
Your original point was: Does Liberal Conspiracy not have any women that could write a piece on this?

When I pointed out that I had linked to lots of pieces by women (to make up for the fact that I didn’t get sent any entries and cannot pay anyone for a commission) – your condescending reply switches to some stuff about misrepresenting Owen Jones’ article. I’ve already addressed OJ’s article. Please see my previous blog post on this.

Having said that if this extreme and unusual incident opens up debate about the treatment of women in India then that can only be a good thing.

It would, if all the British left-wing writers who know little about India weren’t falling over themselves to convince us that things in India weren’t as bad as Indian women themselves were saying they were.

I still don’t see what you British libs can possibly do to affect any of this. Imagine some Indian bloggers kicking up a stink about some social problem in the UK. Wouldn’t make any difference, would it?

Plus, rape culture is just a feminist buzzword

Hi Sunny

Under ‘Claim 1′ are you sure you’re not referring to the conviction rate rather that the attrition rate? If the attrition rate in Delhi was 50 times lower than in the UK that would actually mean Delhi was doing better, as it would mean that fewer cases were being dropped before they reached court. The UK attrition rate is actually somewhere closer to 70% – see Unity here – http://www.ministryoftruth.me.uk/2012/01/09/rape-and-cjscps-performance/

umm,the sinking ship of a newspaper called the guardian are really letting themsleves down on this isuue,i could even accuse them of sexism,but the biggest fool is the fools that fools himself.you are fools guardian and should start living in the real world,this is to serious of a issue to make glib comments.

If it was compehensible, I’m sure this ‘Graun’ pice by the Taliban-apologist/relativist Priyamvada Gopal, would prove to be just as bad:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/dec/31/delhi-rape-sexual-violence-india

As a white lefty *Guardianista* I have to agree with this.
The article was wrong footed and plain wrong.
The issue is rape. Period. And that transcends race and statistics.
So let’s not get all squeemish about addressing this lest some idiot feels we’re being *racist* when in fact the issue is *rapist*.
Simple.

17: “The issue is rape. Period. And that transcends race and statistics.”

No it doesn’t. Blaming is easy and futile if that is the only response and the government of India has no constructive policies to prevent rape and no effort is made to change social attitudes in the way the women – and female fetuses – are treated. India isn’t short of world-class social scientists so it could be illuminating to analyse representative rape statistics to see if there are predominate characteristics of both rape perpetrators and their victims as well as the locations of rape. Crime statistics are of great value in detecting and preventing crime.

If gender imbalance, due to the abortion of female fetuses is among the root causes of rape, it could take a long haul to eradicate male impulsion to rape. Are there regional differences in gender imbalance and the incidence of rape?

IMO increasing internet access in rural areas could support trends towards the liberation of women and their schooling – although it could also inflame the inclinations of potential rapists.

Cath: Sunny’s referring to the % of rapes that take place for which a conviction is recorded. Unity’s 30% figure is for rapes in England & Wales that are reported to police; Sunny’s 7.5% figure is for all rapes including unreported ones. The Indian 0.15% figure, likewise, is for all rapes including unreported ones.

@ Claras Bow

Does Liberal Conspiracy not have any women that could write a piece on this?

WTF does the sex (or skin colour or sexual orientation etc) of the author matter?

Why is it that feminists are allowed to get away with blatant sexism where others would be (rightly) condemned?

@Pagar It doesn’t matter to me but matters deeply to Sunny when talking about who should and shouldn’t comment on this. I was a bit surprised given his drive for authenticity he couldn’t find a woman. Does he not have binders full of them?

Although I agree that sugar-coating statistics to fit in with your argument is wrong. I have a strong feeling that Emer O’Toole is not as far off the mark as you think.

Delhi as a city is at the extreme end of the scale. India is a vast country with massive regional variations. If you look at the statistics for cities such as Mumbai, Chennai, Hydrabad, Bangalore and other major cities, you’ll find that rape incidents are much lower than in Delhi. The next largest city is Mumbai, which has half the number of cases, while Chennai is less than a fifth.

I am sure there isn’t the same problems of reporting to police for other crimes (e.g. Assault, Theft etc) yet if you compare somewhere like London to Mumbai, you’ll find that on a ‘per capita’ basis, crime levels in Mumbai would be much lower. In fact, theft and assault is taken much less seriously in London than somewhere like Mumbai, simply because its so common over here in the UK that the Police would not really have any motivation to bother with much investigation.

This is why I appreciated Emer’s article. The situation in India and UK are world’s apart. UK is undoubtedly much better for women but not as much as we’d like to think. Rather than a ‘defence’ of India it was a wake up call for the UK to ignite a similar sense of passion for justice and outrage which is taking place in many Indian cities. It is quite heartening to see so much outrage in India currently. Living in the UK for most of my life (with 6 years recently in India) I’d become quite desensitised to vile and disturbing incidents.

Here are examples of stories I read on a daily basis in Manchester (a population 1/15 of that of Mumbai):-

http://menmedia.co.uk/manchestereveningnews/news/crime/s/1597279_sex-beast-jailed-for-eight-years-for-violent-attack-on-18-year-old-girl

http://menmedia.co.uk/manchestereveningnews/news/crime/s/1597042_hyde-woman-raped-in-her-own-home-in-horrific-attack-by-masked-raider

Can somebody please explain this strange use of the word attrition? Surely the stats are about successful prosecutions for rape?

oxbridge educated owen jones of the independant and middle class white guardian journalists are not qualified to comment on issues that dont affect them,they might think they are superior in thought to us ordinary plebs but at the end of the day they dont walk in are shoes,thats the point i think that sunny hundal is trying to get across,i cant feel the pain as a englishman as the indian community feel in delhi at this outrage commited against this poor girl,why do the guardian journalists and owen jones thinks they know better than everybody else.

Interesting article and correct.

The problem is this is an uncomfortable truth. Women are treated horribly in India culture and society.

It reminds me of sati, a despicable practice that India should be ashamed of and should never have allowed. We have to accept the criticism from abroad and the British do have a right to be smug and condensing about the issue. Otherwise the situation won’t change for the people who are actually important in all of this, the women affected by this type of behaviour.

But you shouldn’t use the term white people, it distracts from the point and needlessly gets people’s backs up.

I guess you mean well-meaning but indoctrinated academic/ liberal elite types who will try to be so clever that they can defend the defensible.

@ john b

Yes, that looks about right.

To clear up any confusion, although its quite common to see the percentage of convictions from all recorded offences given as the ‘attrition rate’ this is, strictly speaking, incorrect.

What the attrition rate should measure is the percentage of reported cases that fail to result in a prosecution, which is the measure used in my own article.

I’m sure women in Britain feel much more comfortable in approaching the authorities about rape than the women of India.

Dear Sunny As a white leftie you describe although I have Roma and therefore some Indian ancestry, I find your stance as a man insulting. I understand that white folk banging on about a culture they are not from must be very frustrating to deal with. I am aware enough to have never visited Goa or any part of India and if I did I should visit places and people rather than night life and other people who look like me. Yes personally I think this is tacky and it embarrasses the hell out of me that white people do this. So I understand your ire. However I don’ t understand, or maybe I do, all too well, why you need to divert the issue away from what looks like a burgeoning movement, led by women, of low caste, toward a safer more equitable society. You speak in this peice all about what you think. Have you considered taking a step back from your male privileged position and allowing the women to get together and sort it out, maybe even with with your support, because what is obvious is that your privilege is showing and you need to zip it up, because it is not an entitlement you should be waving about, on this issue. We are all trying to understand and change these things, but you want to divert to your own opinion, as a man, yet again. Take a step back, brother cos the women aren’t putting up with this shit anymore.

Is attrition where the victim(s) drop out of court action sometime during the case between arrest/charging/arraignment and a possible conviction?

It’s funny, isn’t it, how “white middle-class english people aren’t qualified to comment on things that don’t affect them”, yet it’s taken as read (by almost everyone apart from Clara’s Bow, that men are somehow qualified to comment on female rape victim. Michelle @28 makes a very good point. Personally, I think if a man wants to comment on this or be helpful, why not flag up some of the reasons why male people would want to do this in the first place? That would be a really useful thing to shed some light on, and a bit more intellectually honest as well.

I guess it’s more comfortable for a lot of people to bang on about the racism than to think about the murderous sexism that is at the crux of the matter. Hey, it’s only a woman that’s been tortured and murdered, it’s all academic to me, so let’s just talk about the *real* issue…?

Men, you’ve got to love ‘em, eh?

I think you’re twisting Emer O’Toole’s article to say something it wasn’t.

Yes she may have botched her statistics a little and the situation for women in India may be comparatively worse, but what you’re suggesting is that she is trying to downplay the issue and make out that the situation isn’t as bad as it is.
She’s patently not doing that, just pointing that instead of demonising a foreign culture, we should bear in mind that a lot of western society isn’t exactly a haven in comparison, just look at the recent coverage of the Steubenville rape case in Ohio for examples.

Calling this ‘borderline racist’ is just tossing words around. The author is providing an important bit of perspective on the wider issue and anything that draws attention to sex crimes in any part of the world isn’t a bad thing. It’s not as if we have a limited amount of outrage which right now can only be directed against India. To say that we shouldn’t forget what goes on in our own ‘backyard’ isn’t to downplay what’s happened in India by any stretch.

Also, she’s not attacking “imaginary hordes”, but addressing viewpoints that she has seen in other articles…

Hi Michele Brown, you say:

However I don’ t understand, or maybe I do, all too well, why you need to divert the issue away from what looks like a burgeoning movement, led by women, of low caste, toward a safer more equitable society.

That is an utterly bizarre accusation to make, since I’m calling for more focus on Indian rape culture than trying to downplay it.

You accuse me of abusing privilege. But if the article was written by an Asian male you’d be among the first of accusing them of abusing privilege and downplaying the problem. Besides, I’m merely exposing her lack of grasp of the facts. That isn’t about exercising privilege.

Some lefties really make absurd accusations just to divert attention when they read something uncomfortable.

@ Rhys

Partially – rape cases can fall by the wayside at both the investigation stage, before any actual charges have been brought against a perpetrator, and at the pre-trial stage, after charges have been laid but before a trial begins.

Victim withdrawal and/or non-cooperation is one common reason why cases fail but its not the only reason for attrition by any means.

Also, some of the idiotic comments criticising me are essentially saying that a man of Indian origin (who has lived in India and knows the culture well) should not be able to offer informed comment on how bad things are because a white woman can do it better. Get over yourselves.

The point here is not whether “Indian men”: will get complacent with their social problems by looking at Emer’s article but the diatribe of racists and their apologists like Sunny who are trying to demonize an entire culture…We Indians are much aware of the horrendous discrimination indian women face and the battle for social change has already started…but the last thing we want is for unsolicited foreign advice which is meaningless, contributes nothing to our fight and is made for the sheer perverse pleasure of justifying existing acts of racism against indians worldwide

And the stats are wrong too.. The one conviction against 625 in Delhi doesn’t mean that in 624 the people are let off. In the past twelve months in these 624 cases, the trial is ongoing and in 70% of the cases once the case is registered and FIR registered, the accused spend non-bailable time in jail as undertrials – So much for low conviction rates…yes the judicial process is slow..but how many rape cases in UK get pronounced (with all appeals) within or less than 12 months? And if we look at arests made to number of cases reported, then the arrest rate in India stands comparable to the so called advanced European nations (obviously a lot of cases do not get reported….one in ten is bad but don’t know if the UK rate of reportage of 1:7 or 1:10 is good too?)- I guess before the british talk about others they should work to improve their own dismal conviction rate of 6.5%. Even assuming a 1:50 reported to unreported rape cases per 100000 populatio the total (reported + estimated unreproted cases) in India would stand at 90 while that for the UK (assuming a 1:10 reported to unreported) would stand at 270..So please get your stats right

India has a deeply patriarchal society and instances of horrendous discrimination by Indian women do abound- but the battle for women’s rights is an Indian battle and both Indian men and women have taken to the streets for the same – the last thing we want is for racist insinuations aimed at Indian culture and narrow minded westerners to offer their unsolicited and presumptuous advice – please live your own cocooned lives blinded to the ills of your own society but leave us alone – we have enough strength to fight the battle for social change in our country ourselves – making empty noise about how “hyena like” indian men are or how “civilized” the West is serves no useful purpose…

The point here is not whether “Indian men”: will get complacent with their social problems by looking at Emer’s article but the diatribe of racists and their apologists like Sunny who are trying to demonize an entire culture…We Indians are much aware of the horrendous discrimination indian women face and the battle for social change has already started…but the last thing we want is for unsolicited foreign advice which is meaningless, contributes nothing to our fight and is made for the sheer perverse pleasure of justifying existing acts of racism against indians worldwide

And the stats are wrong too.. The one conviction against 625 in Delhi doesn’t mean that in 624 the people are let off. In the past twelve months in these 624 cases, the trial is ongoing and in 70% of the cases once the case is registered and FIR registered, the accused spend non-bailable time in jail as undertrials – So much for low conviction rates…yes the judicial process is slow..but how many rape cases in UK get pronounced (with all appeals) within or less than 12 months? And if we look at arests made to number of cases reported, then the arrest rate in India stands comparable to the so called advanced European nations (obviously a lot of cases do not get reported….one in ten is bad but don’t know if the UK rate of reportage of 1:7 or 1:10 is good too?)- I guess before the british talk about others they should work to improve their own dismal conviction rate of 6.5%. Even assuming a 1:50 reported to unreported rape cases per 100000 populatio the total (reported + estimated unreproted cases) in India would stand at 90 while that for the UK (assuming a 1:10 reported to unreported) would stand at 270..So please get your stats right

India has a deeply patriarchal society and instances of horrendous discrimination Indian women are subjected to do abound- but the battle for women’s rights is an Indian battle and both Indian men and women have taken to the streets for the same – the last thing we want is for racist insinuations aimed at Indian culture and narrow minded westerners to offer their unsolicited and presumptuous advice – please live your own cocooned lives blinded to the ills of your own society but leave us alone – we have enough strength to fight the battle for social change in our country ourselves – making empty noise about how “hyena like” indian men are or how “civilized” the West is serves no useful purpose…

A small typo in my previous comment “India has a deeply patriarchal society and instances of horrendous discrimination by Indian women do abound” ..really meant to say ” India has a deeply patriarchal society and instances of horrendous discrimination of Indian women do abound”..Apologize for unintended use of words–not really an english speaker…

An unintended typo in my previous comment – “India has a deeply patriarchal society and instances of horrendous discrimination by Indian women do abound” Really meant tos say – “India has a deeply patriarchal society and instances of horrendous discrimination of Indian women do abound”..not an english speaker so apologize for the unintended use of words

@ michele brown who wrote ..from what looks like a burgeoning movement, led by women, of low caste, toward a safer more equitable society.”

Led by women of low caste? Did you arrive at this conclusion from their “looks”? Or were you there taking down their caste details?Let us know please.

Perhaps it is as well to recall that Mrs Indira Gandhi first became prime minister of India in 1966.

For comparison, Mrs Thatcher became Britain’s PM in May 1979.

37. Venkatesh

The point here is not whether “Indian men”: will get complacent with their social problems by looking at Emer’s article but the diatribe of racists and their apologists like Sunny who are trying to demonize an entire culture…

Tell me, does accusing people you disagree with of racism actually work? I mean, like, ever?

We Indians are much aware of the horrendous discrimination indian women face and the battle for social change has already started…but the last thing we want is for unsolicited foreign advice which is meaningless, contributes nothing to our fight and is made for the sheer perverse pleasure of justifying existing acts of racism against indians worldwide

That is very interesting because India has had nearly 65 years of independence to do something about the way that women are treated. How has that been working out for you? It is only when an incident like this makes the international news that something actually gets done. To me that suggests that precisely what you need is a lot of unsolicited foreign advice. Who has ever justified acts of racism against Indians worldwide? When and when? This is just you trying to escape an intellectually unpleasant and unsustainable position isn’t it? Accuse everyone of racism against Indians! So much easier than actually doing a damn thing.

And the stats are wrong too.. The one conviction against 625 in Delhi doesn’t mean that in 624 the people are let off. In the past twelve months in these 624 cases, the trial is ongoing and in 70% of the cases once the case is registered and FIR registered, the accused spend non-bailable time in jail as undertrials – So much for low conviction rates…

So as a *mitigation* you are claiming the fact that 624 people found innocent by the Indian legal system is a good thing? Oh I am so impressed. Please tell me, how does throwing 624 innocent people in prison do a damn thing about rape in New Delhi?

I guess before the british talk about others they should work to improve their own dismal conviction rate of 6.5%.

There is no reason to think India gets even close but by all means, let’s work on that in the UK. In the meantime let’s acknowledge that British policemen do not force rape victims to marry their rapists. We are doing slightly better than India.

but the battle for women’s rights is an Indian battle and both Indian men and women have taken to the streets for the same – the last thing we want is for racist insinuations aimed at Indian culture and narrow minded westerners to offer their unsolicited and presumptuous advice

Which is to say you want to go on abusing Indian women to your heart’s content and don’t want anyone else to notice. Good for you. Notice that the struggle for Indian nationalism has always been against women’s liberation – something brought by the British. The Indian independence movement had problems with bans on child marriage, on education for women, and so on. Gandhi was positively mediaeval on the subject of women. So what has changed in those 60 odd years of independence? Nothing until the West noticed. The fact is a international criticism is a pre-requisite of Indian progress.

It’s simple. No one posts articles like ‘Why is France bad for women’ when the rapes mentioned by Owen happened. No one in India as far as I know entered a classroom, told them that they were horrible for being women and shot them dead. That was in Canada. No one said ‘Canada is bad for women’. Look at different statistics, RAINN is one. America, Canada, Britain, all countries read the same. So many women raped every few minutes, America has a high number of unreported rapes. Sure you said India didn’t register many cases. How about the same thing in Britain? Stats?

Either way, the western countries have far greater law and order. That is the big difference. Take it away, increase the crowds of people. See how it looks then. As a bonus, take away govt funded education and bring it down to Indian levels. See how many rednecks will be busy groping away. It’s also ingenious to lump gropings in with serious rapes to reach the ‘bad for women’ conclusion.

India’s ‘patriarchial’ culture is also a myth. Parts of India, places in Africa have a history of being matriarchial! Even otherwise in the west women have to act tough like men to get ahead, they’re not allowed to be mature and feminine. People are nice to women because they hope to lay them and that’s the near complete truth for many. It’s a huge joke, the idea that someone who dresses up or is dressed up like poodles are respected. You WANT them to be virtual whores!

India doesn’t only have a few token women leaders, women have been in the work place for decades now. I would say that women are respected a bit more for their minds than in the west.

Now about the “hatred” of girls by men.

One statistic showed more boy children were molested than girls in India. It still means girls are hated more?

Bride killings. Women mother in laws are frequent participants or the main culprits. Still a male problem?

Then on the subject of ‘foeticide’. It happens largely because of poverty. I don’t judge people in the west because they commit foeticide, of not only the girl child but also the boy child. Differing circumstances, poverty being a usual cause in BOTH cases. But according to the jumped up liberal hypocrites who ignore Obama’s continued drone killings of children, India commits foeticide. It’s called abortion in the west. Oh but that’s different! Right to choose! It’s actually progressive! Whew, thanks be to God for making the west so brilliant. Even its atrocities are little marvels. *wipes away tears of laug… joy*

Oh and speaking of unmentionable atrocities … there is one that will never be covered properly in Britain.

Pedophilia.

Because it goes to the heart of Britain’s rulers. Google the case of Holly Greig, raped by the UK’s – Scotland’s elite – a judge, a policeman, care givers. People who also murdered her relative. Then SILENCED the media on the issue. One brief article was all that got through before the media was muzzled.

People focus on Jimmy Savile. But ignore the reality that his friends in the pedo rings were powerful members of British society. How about royals? You can bet they’re involved.

Britain – bad for children? Hell Yes, it deserves to be called pedo haven. Oh but it’s all India’s fault. I feel sorry that some Indian’s as well have been brainwashed to think horrible things only happen there. Some one told me about Hindu guilt and that seems to explain it a little. This is how the west took over India and other cultures. TOLD them or forced them into GUILT and nagged them to submission. Sounds a bit like some women, oh but there I go showing my Indian misogynistic side again.