Watch: Tory MP flip-flops on birds being hurt by wind farms


1:56 pm - November 15th 2012

by Sunny Hundal    


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Part of the Greenpeace sting involved having some interesting conversations with Tory MP Chris Heaton-Harris on the RSBP and whether birds are negatively affected by wind turbines.

First, Heaton-Harris is caught admitting he has no evidence that birds are affected by wind turbines.

Then later in an official interview he claims the opposite. Not in the least bit surprising.

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Sunny Hundal is editor of LC. Also: on Twitter, at Pickled Politics and Guardian CIF.
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Reader comments


um

It sounds a lot like he’s about to say “how true or not I’ve got no idea, but there is a theory that these wind turbines kill birds”.

However the recording *stops* after he says “no idea” (you must have noticed this, Sunny?). For all we know, he might have said “how true or not I’ve got no idea, but I’ve heard the RSPB is a front for the Freemasons”.

I can easily believe that he was admitting he had no idea whether wind turbines “blend” or kill birds, but we don’t hear him say it. And in fact, the way the film has been edited makes me wonder if he isn’t in fact saying something quite different – something that doesn’t fit Greenpeace’s agenda (as Greenpeace published the video).

Or maybe the video was cut because the relevant bit finished?

If he has the evidence – let’s hear it. He could take to Twitter or his blog to publish it

If birds are being hit by turbines when they fail to provide evidence, then that’s disgraceful.

Don’t birds also have the right to silence?

4. Chaise Guevara

@ Sunny

If someone did video him then doctor the footage to misrepresent him, they’d hardly send him an unedited copy to show to the world, would they?

If CCH was mis-represented by saying something in the first video that was edited out – he could quite easily sue or clarify.

Silly sidetracking of issue. The bigger point is how he’s willing to change his tune in public to push an ideological agenda.

Yea, like tories give a shit about birds. They spend a lot of time blasting the hell out of them on their estates.

But but but if a windmill kills them……

But when you are a whore to the fossil fuel industry any lies will do.

What? Suunny, you claim in your post: “Heaton-Harris is caught admitting he has no evidence that birds are affected by wind turbines.”

But when you watch the video, he doesn’t admit that. It looks like he he may be about to admit that, but then the footage mysteriously stops or cuts to something else.

There’s no misrepresentation in the video. The misrepresentation is in the blog post above it.

Ignore the tory trolls running defence for their masters.

Unlike Heaton Harris’s Policy based Science, the RSPB’s position on Wind Farms is Science based Policy.

Here:

http://www.rspb.org.uk/ourwork/policy/windfarms/index.aspx

In a nutshell, there are some potential issues, but careful siting can resolve these. Moreover “Climate change poses the single greatest long-term threat to birds and other wildlife”.

…and this link is even better

http://www.rspb.org.uk/news/312085-rspb-announces-wind-turbine-plan-to-reduce-its-carbon-footprint-

When Heaton Harris says the RSPB have been “crap” on wind farms, he really means inconveniently not in his pocket. The Con-Dem coalition may have the power to remove Natural England’s independent voice for Nature, but they cannot muzzled the RSPB. And science based policy always trumps policy based science in the end.

Don’t see many Lib Dems on here defending the great sell out of their party anymore. Liberal Voice won’t publish anything I write on their site. Despite saying they welcome views from non Lib Dem voters.

Funny that.

12. Chaise Guevara

@ Sunny

It’s not quite a confession, and Greenpeace could release the next minute or so of footage to clarify. I’m not saying he’s innocent of duplicity, just that this isn’t entirely convincing.

The truth does come out in the end…
Tory tosser touts lies – again

Wind farms kill birds?

Best get rid of aeroplanes whilst we’re at it, then.

Hobson: “There’s no misrepresentation in the video.”

Desperate spinning for Tory mates. He has been caught with his pants down.

@ 15

I’m sorry Phil but I don’t believe the video misrepresents him in any way. If you believe it does then perhaps you could explain why?

I like the way you accuse someone else of being a Tory and make excuses for this Tory MP in the same comment!

Please provide evidence that the video misrepresents him. If you can’t then it will be clear that you are nothing but a Tory troll.

hobson:

Your comment #7 slates Sunny, suggesting that you believe Heaton-Harris is being honest and that this post seeks to mislead people about H-H’s position.

Phil H says at #15 that Heaton-Harris has been caught with his pants down, and that people who are defending him by claiming that this post is misleading are desperate Tory spinners.

Your comment #16 slates Phil and calls him a Tory troll, despite the fact that the rest of the comment agrees completely with Phil #15 and disagrees completely with your own comment #7.

Multiple personality disorder?

I knew that Tory Policy was to blame everyone and everything else for their exposure to wrong doing, deceit, lies, errors and mistakes but this is just insulting everyones intelligence !

The Tories really do believe that everyone outside of their imaginary elitist circle are complete brain dead Plebs.

AFAIK there is no systematic, all-species monitoring of windfarm bird mortality in the UK.

OTOH, in places like Germany and Spain both official and 3rd sector monitoring shows pretty conclusively that turbines kill birds, the larger raptors in particular, and quite possibly are doing so in significant numbers. If the author’s interest is in the topic itself, rather than merely backing-up a half-baked ‘sting’ and having a cheap pop at a Tory or two irrespective of the facts, this can be readily confirmed by a few minutes’ Googling.

Obviously such effects of onshore windfarm proliferation could legitimately be seen as a price worth paying – every generation method has undesirable side effects. That argument would clearly be a bit more compelling if onshore wind actually did its job – providing an inexpensive, reliable, continuous energy source – which sadly it self-evidently does not.

@17. john b

Hi John.

No, Phil attacks because I said “there’s no misrepresentation in the video”. Try reading his comment (it is number 15).

But I stand by my view that there is no misrepresentation in the video. And that’s exactly what I said in comment 7 which you refer to as well.

It looks like the desperate spinning of Phil B has got you confused! That’s what Tory trolls like to do and I guess he succeeded.

Having now watched the film, I find it hard to decide whether Greenpeace or Sunny is being the more cynically dishonest here.

The subject of the ‘sting’ in no way contradicts himself, he does not in the first clip say there is no evidence of windfarm bird fatalities (the editing makes it impossible for us to know what the ‘this’ in ‘about this’ refers to) and the evidence of the same, to which he refers in the second clip is, as he suggests, abundant.

Truly contemptible piece of crassly partisan, deliberate distortion.

Congratulations.

“Or maybe the video was cut because the relevant bit finished?”

Halfway through a sentence, following the word “but…” ? Right.

“If he has the evidence – let’s hear it.”

He may well have provided it in the second half of the sentence.

In any case it’s out there, by the shedload. Which you either know and are choosing not to acknowledge, or are clueless about and insufficiently interested to make the minimal effort to discover.

Shameful, either way.

23. Chaise Guevara

..Also, he could have looked up the evidence twixt interviews. Just a thought.

I guess Chicken is off the menu tonight !

Only joking.

“This is worth reading.”

Not really.

The first link is to a kids’ tv micro-article which fails to note that the referenced report completely ignored raptor species’ fatalities ( as, to be fair, acknowledged by the authors of the latter), the second seems to be an odd mix of cherrypicked and made-up numbers.

Assuming you’re posting in good faith rather than just running interference, you will easily find meaningful statistics from solid primary sources making quite clear that birds are being killed in large numbers. I can help if you ask nicely.

Anyway, I see that The Proprietor has once again changed the headline while still managing to get it factually wrong.

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0960148112000857

From the abstract:
“The study estimates that wind farms and nuclear power stations are responsible each for between 0.3 and 0.4 fatalities per gigawatt-hour (GWh) of electricity while fossil fueled power stations are responsible for about 5.2 fatalities per GWh.”

It seems the question is not whether wind farms kill birds (they do) but whether they kill less, proportionally, than fossil fuels. I’ve no idea how reliable the numbers above are but we need to shift the terms of this debate to something that is not artificially skewed against wind power.

“It seems the question is not whether wind farms kill birds (they do)”

A pity then that this fatuous ‘sting’ is focused exclusively on trying to cast spurious doubt on what you correctly identify as a settled fact.

Then they should use or invent some technology (such as at airports) to deter birds from flying near or through wind farms.

It appears that some people would rather protect birds and watch the human race slowly become extinct because there is a REAL danger that we will pollute this planet so much that it will become irreversible and so sick that it will not recover.

The answer really should be use or invent better tachnology to deter birds from flying through wind farms. No more prevaricating and lies, use technology to protect birds and our envirnment/planet.

Problem solved !

I guess that I will have to now take Turkey of the menu this Christmas.

Only joking.

Yes, it’s either onshore wind or the extinction of hom. sap.

Here is just a couple of ways to keep birds and bats away from wind turbines so it’s possible to eliminate the problem permanently.

http://www.birdbusters.com/airport_bird_scare_1.html

http://www.ecogeek.org/wind-power/2872-using-radar-to-protect-bats-from-wind-turbines

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/32034204/ns/technology_and_science-science/t/radar-could-save-bats-wind-turbines/#.UKe0XIc3nz4

The technology that already exists and new inventions in the pipe line will now allow birds, bats, homosapiens and wind turbines to live in total harmony.

All I have to do now is keep pheasant and quail of the menu and that will be total harmony.

No need to listen to Tory prevarication and lies !

RichardT @ 28

I’m so glad your quote mining skills enabled you to ignore my actual point.

Your ‘actual point’ doesn’t really alter the fact that the premise of the thread is a complete crock.


Reactions: Twitter, blogs
  1. Tory List

    Chris Heaton-Harris: http://t.co/kdRfkofa “Watch: Tory MP says birds hit by wind turbines after admitting no evidence”

  2. Carl G

    More evidence Tory war on clean energy is ideological: MP says birds hit by wind turbines after saying no such evidence http://t.co/9rzPiEDt

  3. leftlinks

    Liberal Conspiracy – Watch: Tory MP says birds hit by wind turbines after admitting no evidence http://t.co/rZe7K3CA

  4. Jason Brickley

    Watch: Tory MP says birds hit by wind turbines after admitting no evidence http://t.co/LYWaEFo2

  5. Deri Jones

    What to think? Wind up? ToryMP says birds hit by wind turbines – w/out evidence http://t.co/D5OjubV7 via@libcon cc @GratziG @ComeHomeCurly

  6. Leo Fortey

    Heaton-Harris officially an arsehole http://t.co/Mlzy6QM0

  7. Kevin Mahy

    More evidence Tory war on clean energy is ideological: MP says birds hit by wind turbines after saying no such evidence http://t.co/9rzPiEDt

  8. Colchester Green Pty

    More evidence Tory war on clean energy is ideological: MP says birds hit by wind turbines after saying no such evidence http://t.co/9rzPiEDt

  9. Peter Clarke

    Flip flop. “@libcon: Watch: Tory MP says birds hit by wind turbines after admitting no evidence http://t.co/RE0W2AHb”

  10. Noel Aitchison

    More evidence Tory war on clean energy is ideological: MP says birds hit by wind turbines after saying no such evidence http://t.co/9rzPiEDt

  11. Jane Leach

    Watch: Tory MP says birds hit by wind turbines after admitting no evidence | Liberal Conspiracy http://t.co/qRJIjoY9 via @libcon

  12. lewis wilde

    Watch: Tory MP says birds hit by wind turbines after admitting no evidence | Liberal Conspiracy http://t.co/qRJIjoY9 via @libcon

  13. Richard Chatterton

    Watch: Tory MP says birds hit by wind turbines after admitting no evidence | Liberal Conspiracy http://t.co/qRJIjoY9 via @libcon

  14. Cllr Keith Martin

    Tory attitudes on wind power stinks, from top to bottom. http://t.co/NMyjKxh0

  15. AJ

    #Tory MP Chris Heaton-Harris flip-flops on birds being hurt by wind farms | Liberal Conspiracy http://t.co/8bFQGhnn

  16. Next Starfish

    Aparant flip-flop on evidence of birds being harmed by wind-turbines by MP – http://t.co/0J8Ph69L

  17. Karin

    Aparant flip-flop on evidence of birds being harmed by wind-turbines by MP – http://t.co/0J8Ph69L





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