Have we reached the point of no return in Afghanistan?
9:30 am - September 19th 2012
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It’s a question worth asking, not just because of the decision made by the Americans to put an immediate stop to joint patrols and training in the country as a result of the ever increasing number of “green on blue” attacks (i.e. Afghans in uniform we’re meant to be handing control over to killing their trainers).
But now a substantial number of our own MPs have been prepared to say what was previously confined only to comment pieces.
On Monday, Denis MacShane, Paul Flynn, David Winnick and John Redwood all called either for a withdrawal from the country by Christmas, or as soon as humanly possible after that. While the latter three have been making similar arguments for some time, Denis MacShane is most certainly not one of the usual suspects, and was among the strongest supporters and then defenders of the Iraq war.
How can our mission in Afghanistan possibly be about national security when al-Qaida was cleared out of Afghanistan years ago, as even Hammond himself has admitted?
As John Baron asked yesterday of the defence secretary, either our continuing presence is about nation building and the training up of Afghan forces, a mission which he himself said we shouldn’t be putting lives at risk for, or it isn’t. If it isn’t about that, then we’re expending blood and treasure for seemingly little other reason than our continuing obsession with riding on the coattails of America, a decision made for reasons of prestige rather than pragmatism.
It has surely come to something when our defence secretary, completely unaware of the change in strategy made we’re told on Sunday stood up in parliament and told everyone that nothing had been altered. Recalled to the Commons to alter his comments, Hammond was left claiming that in fact everything was just as it had been, only that now we would have to apply to the Americans for permission to carry on joint patrols below company level.
Last week in an interview with the Guardian, Hammond was claiming that we could draw down our forces quicker, despite the green on blue “problems” as the work had been progressing so swimmingly; now they can’t even go out together without asking the Americans first.
According to Richard Norton-Taylor, the military has long wanted to get out of Afghanistan and it’s been the politicians holding them back. Alternatively, according to MacShane, the problem has been the “unelected military-Ministry of Defence nexus” which has been in control of policy.
If anything, the only thing we’re providing is continuing target practice for the Taliban, and while they might not as strong as they were in previous years, they’re clearly capable of a spectacular assault when they feel like it.
What we should be doing now is pushing ever more fiercely for some kind of accord between the Karzai government and the sections of the Taliban prepared to negotiate, even if that means making really unpleasant decisions about the carving out of autonomous regions within the country. Afghanistan has been at war now since 1978; just as the Russians admitted defeat, so must we.
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A longer version is here.
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'Septicisle' is a regular contributor to Liberal Conspiracy. He mostly blogs, poorly, over at Septicisle.info on politics and general media mendacity.
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Story Filed Under: Blog ,Foreign affairs ,South Asia
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Reader comments
Bin Laden is dead, the American believed that Bin Laden was laid up in the hills and the mountains, now they say he is dead and buried in the ocean.
So why the hell are we now in Afghanistan, we should get out before more soldiers are killed, we have to get out when a Princesses Boobs get more air time they our dead soldiers.
It’s over get them out now.
The woman of afghanistan must be dreaming about a Karzi-taliban alliance.
What a mess – we can’t even make our own inner cities decent places, what chance was there ever going to be for Afghanistan.
I mean why are we really there?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XFVwH2ICIV4&feature=related
I urged him then, and I think he agreed, that elected Ministers had to take back command and control from the unelected military-Ministry of Defence nexus that had dictated policy.
Since then, 146 British soldiers have died, more than one for every week for which he has been in office. They have died in an unwinnable conflict for an unattainable end, to no strategic benefit for our country.
There has to be suspicion that the continuing involvement in Afghanistan provides a useful live training ground for the Army top brass and something for the MOD to do.
It makes them feel more important than they otherwise would be and bolsters the argument against potential cuts.
Why else are we there?
Three comments and one tweet.
I am always astonished at how little interest there is in this subject on LC.
I wrote an article here several years ago on Afghanistan with similar response while on the same page Laurie Penny got several hundred comments for a lefty feminist structural analysis of a Harry Potter book!!!
Young, working class men lacking viable economic choices at home being sent abroad to be blown to pieces in a pointless neo-colonial adventure. Their deaths and injuries devoid of all purpose or meaning.
You would have thought that would tick the boxes for most of the bleeding hearts that hang around here.
Why doesn’t it?
We have long ago given up on Afghanistan: http://andreasmoser.wordpress.com/2012/02/25/good-bye-afghanistan/
The sad truth is that people here care more about Olympic medals or a Royal wedding than about girls being able to go to school or being able to pick their own husband.
@pagar – i think you are confused as to why most people comment here. the vast majority of comments on this site criticise the articles and writers, or just troll for some weird tory amusement.
when something as clearly correct as this is posted the trolls and torys cant be bothered to weigh in.
we should have kicked out the stone age Taliban into the mountains. Battlefield Nuked those mountains and then LEFT, with a warning ringing in their un-evolved ears about what happens next time if they start Jihadding for Virgins again.
Well, forcing people into mountains in order to nuke them is certainly far more evolved that training a few guys to hijack some airplanes…
pagar: It is rather sad, isn’t it? I think part of the problem though is that everyone already knows the deployment in Afghanistan has been justified on the basis of lies for years, and we’ve got so inured to the “national security” lie that it just sails over our heads. That, and the fact that politicians so easily turn criticism of the mission into criticism of the troops themselves has led to so many just letting it continue. Most striking I thought was that during the debate on Monday there wasn’t a single anti-war left MP who spoke, no Jeremy Corbyn, no Galloway, etc. When even they aren’t making the effort, something really is badly wrong.
Well, forcing people into mountains in order to nuke them is certainly far more evolved that training a few guys to hijack some airplanes…
Thanks, glad you agree.
You fight war you try to win it. And anyone who bleeds tears for fascist scum (be they Nazis or Islamists) left basic morals behind a long time ago.
But of course Nazis’s didn’t have a tan and a Quran…so no left protection there (unless you count your friend Communist Russia siding with and killing along side the Nazis).
And anyone who bleeds tears for fascist scum left basic morals behind a long time ago.
Anyone who bleeds tears at all, ever, needs to see a doctor about that condition sharpish.
The elephant in the room is Pakistan, though, isn’t it? The country is in a very precarious state and if Afghanistan becomes an extension of the ungovernable tribal areas of Pakistan there would be a de facto Taliban state threatening Pakistan as a whole.
I cannot see any improvement in regional stability under such circumstances.
Given the presence of nuclear weapons in Pakistan and India one can understand the concerns of western strategists.
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- Jason Brickley
Have we reached the point of no return in Afghanistan? http://t.co/0jJaozHM
- leftlinks
Liberal Conspiracy – Have we reached the point of no return in Afghanistan? http://t.co/KgRKxNMT
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