Seems a bit odd to be focusing on ‘British pride’ when in a couple years time we might be having to re-adjust the blue out of the union jack.

I’d be more likely to be proud of GB if we enjoyed the ‘democracy’ our government boasts of.
Maybe, if we cared more for our elderly, if we didn’t need festivals of sport to remind us the positive role the disabled can play.
If our self serving politicians cared a little more for the people and a little less for themselves and their corporate paymasters.
If the gap between the rich and the poor was closer
It takes more than a couple of days of sunshine to make a summer and more than a month of sporting success to change a nation.
As to TV’s coverage of sport, perhaps somebody needs to prise them away from the fetish that is Premier League football?

What? She just runs quickly. And chucks stuff far. Or whatever.

Not sure why that should make me proud. Ordinary people doing extraordinary things such as defeating Nazism makes me proud, or setting up a welfare state. Everyone who helped out and did their bit in 1939-1945 should be a Sir or Dame, not some athletes who make a mint out of their success. We should have a day off annually to celebrate the defeat of fascism in 1945 not a pissing National Sports Day.

I had the good fortune to watch a programme about the death of soldier Mark Evison in Afghanistan on BBC the other evening. Whatever the rights and wrongs of us being there, the character and courage of the men involved – men who in the main were probably told they were failures at school – was truly inspiring. One unassuming chap carried Evison 200m on his back under horrendous fire and was so exhausted he collapsed entirely. I was humbled watching it. These are the people we are failing – people who end up on the scrapheap if they don’t join the army. They have more to offer society than a fleeting gold medal. We should be ashamed that we revel in essentially pointless sporting success and convince ourselves it will ‘change society’ while we ignore large swathes of that society who could be contributing to actually improving things .

Never mind. At least we’ve got some good cyclists. Calling someone who rides a bike Sir? FFS.

Why? She’s not even British.

She bleaches the pigments out of her system to present herself as white also referred to as golden and therefore gain acceptance to a wider range of marketeers/media campaigns…is that what you are inferring to as being proud to be a brit?

“most want London 2012 to have “a lasting positive impact on British society” (58% agree/15% disagree).”

Odd. However you feel about the Olympics, why would you not want it to have a lasting positive impact?

“let’s stop talking about needing to reclaim the flag from the extreme fringe when the inclusive meaning of the Union Jack today is better represented in children’s facepaint than flailing neo-fascism.”

Yeah, but it’s not the British flag that’s the real problem here, it’s the English one.

“The report also calls for:
* A new school sports day/national sports day — held on the same day around England, Scotland, Wales and NI”

Why, exactly? Purely to make life harder for people planning the school calendar?

“* As much women’s sport on TV as men’s”

Won’t happen. There’s just far less interest in it. The non-BBC channels care about ratings, and the BBC feels the need to compete with them. I’m not saying we couldn’t do with more coverage of women’s sports, and the Beeb seems best-placed to do this. But saying we should artificially boost women’s sports to the same level of coverage as men’s, despite the lack of viewer interest, is silly.

“* The Olympics park to stay open for another month so public can visit, and new Superstars-style TV programme”

That’s a fairly good one.

@ Raymond

“What? She just runs quickly. And chucks stuff far. Or whatever. ”

To be fair, the survey asked which Olympic athelete makes us most proud to be British. So inevitably it was going to be someone who runs and/or chucks stuff. This incredibly useful and important question returned the shocking response: “the most famous one”. And then Sunny ballsed up the headline, probably out of a sense of tradition.

Chaise Guevara:

“* As much women’s sport on TV as men’s”

Won’t happen. There’s just far less interest in it. The non-BBC channels care about ratings, and the BBC feels the need to compete with them. I’m not saying we couldn’t do with more coverage of women’s sports, and the Beeb seems best-placed to do this. But saying we should artificially boost women’s sports to the same level of coverage as men’s, despite the lack of viewer interest, is silly.

It’s a bit of a circular argument, as we never know until more sport is shown. The fact that the British women’s football team packed out Wembley could have been due to it being the Olympics, playing Brazil, TV coverage, or some really good marketing, or a load a feminist footie fans showing solidarity.

I suspect there’s a case for the BBC offering more ‘Red Button’ coverage allied to some decent social media promotion, to test the water. And that would be much, much better than a revival of ‘Superstars’, if only because footballers like Kevin Keegan are no Sir Chris Hoy.

@Raymond I don’t think anyone’s suggesting she should make you proud, just as a matter of empirical fact that should does make people proud. You raise the armed services – but they tend to be far more sport-mad than the average person, and a great many enjoyed watching the Olympics (not to mention the numerous ex-services folk in the paralympics). I’m pretty sure a majority of them would disagree with your contemptuous attitude to running, cycling, and chucking stuff.

@ 8 redpesto

I always forget about the red button. There’s also the possibility of trialling it on minor channels and seeing if it gets the uptake to be moved to BBC1.

Yeah, it’s possibly a vicious cycle: women’s sport doesn’t get much interest because it’s not shown in the first place. But even with equal coverage, I doubt it would get the viewers. It’s generally to a lower standard, as the rules of entry (female only) have had to be built to allow these players into a game where they can compete, similar to under-18s matches. Generally, anyway; I’m sure there are exceptions. But by all means we should give it a shot, and even if the viewers don’t appear, we should probably make sure some women’s games are shown to encourage girls to get into sport.

The jingoistic coverage of the Olympics made me feel nauseous.

Can’t understand why it didn’t have the same effect on the progressive luvvies congregated around British Future and I hope this isn’t softening us up for a dose of Fabian nationalism.

Two points:

1. Many on the liberal-left axis are quick to sneer at national pride. Yet many of the things that help us cohere as a nation – sport, the monarchy, an uncorrupt judiciary, a free press, tolerance, fish ‘n’ chips, constitutional government, the rule of law, irony, discussing the weather etc – are exactly what immigrants value about the UK. (I recall a very ‘British’ Muslim colleague who spent 20 minutes explaining to me that the Queen was a distant descendant of Mohammed, and how that helped make him feel at home here. — Lovely man, but I’ve no idea whether his claims are true.) Moreover, and crucially for the left, national pride underpins and engenders the social solidarity that is needed in a liberal democracy to ensure the democratic will supports collective provision. To put it crudely, the electoral ‘logic’ is: no national pride = less national solidarity = a diminished welfare state.

2. ‘National pride’ like ‘national identity’ is built up in layers and in parts. You can identify with some bits and some layers, but still reject some bits – as we do in our families, clubs, political parties, etc. So Barrie J @ 2 could be proud of being British – in part. And RT @ 3 could accept that it’s not either/or: we can admire noble sacrifice in Afghanistan as well as Olympic/Paralympic achievements.

PS Truthseeker @ 4: She has a British passport and she was born here. And she makes me proud to be British. So, from a right-leaning commenter, receive my utter contempt, and please take your blend of leftist economics and racial prejudice elasewhere.

“national pride underpins and engenders the social solidarity that is needed in a liberal democracy to ensure the democratic will supports collective provision. ”

How come Samuel Johnson – who produced the first English dictionary – was reported by James Boswell to have said: “Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel.”

It seems Johnson was on to something there. The Duke of Wellington, writing about the character of the British army many decades later: “The French system of conscription brings together a fair sample of all classes; ours is composed of the scum of the earth — the mere scum of the earth. It is only wonderful that we should be able to make so much out of them afterwards.”

Churchill, responding to someone extolling the great traditions of the Royal Navy, is reported to have said that the traditions of the Royal Navy depended on rum, sodomy and the lash.

Would like to know the geographical whereabouts of those polled.
Because, in great swathes of the country, the Olympics was only ever really something on TV (like any other Olympics but with more amenable schedules for live viewing). There’s been a marked difference between my London friends and those in the Nth east, Scotland and elsewhere in their attitudes. The Londoners really did see the games as something massively transformative. The rest enjoyed the whole shebang, but haven’t gone overboard, or see it as lasting.
Oh, and “A new school sports day/national sports day — held on the same day around England, Scotland, Wales and NI”. Who thought that up? As they can’t have thought very hard, or know that much,else they’d know that schools and education policy is largely set by each country. So an avowedly Unionist day is going to have a rough ride getting through devolved legislatures…

I’m not sure “Pride” is the right word. Having contributed nothing myself, it would be wrong to share credit with the very many people who did.

The Games have certainly cheered me up though. (If only Ian Dury had been around to hear Spasticus Autisticus played in front of 80,000 people).

As Churchill also said, if “truth” is in your online name, then you are an absolute arse.

Was Edith Cavell one of those dreadful multiculturalists?

“I realize that patriotism is not enough. I must have no hatred or bitterness towards anyone.”
http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Edith_Cavell

“that most want London 2012 to have “a lasting positive impact on British society” (58% agree/15% disagree”

This is why opinion polls are stupid. 15% of the public, by implication, want the olympics to have a lasting negative impact.

On geography, it is a representative national sample from Ipsos-Mori. This is an Ipsos-Mori overview of the polling which informs the report
http://www.ipsos-mori.com/researchpublications/researcharchive/3031/Britons-surprised-by-how-Olympics-brought-country-together.aspx

Enthusiasm for the Olympics was just strongest in Yorkshire and Humberside, where 89% say it has boosted the mood of the nation, compared to 86% generally across the UK. 86% in London who say it was positive, up 23% on the 63% who were expecting it to be positive.

Back in December 2011, the idea that the Olympics would be a negative experience was a minority view (11%), but stronger in London and Scotland (15% each) than in England outside London. After the event, about 6% say it was a negative experience across the UK versus 86% positive.

It was a bit lower in Scotland, but very strong in Wales. Scots divide 53% on the Olympics and Jubilee bringing people together versus 35% saying more a distraction from real issues facing the country (+18% on balance), while the UK as a whole divides 70-22 (+48%) on that.

“want to have a lasting impact” isn’t what people were asked. It is their view about whether this will happen or not.

The 58% agree that “the Olympics will have a lasting positive impact on British society” while 15% disagree with that.

Sunder, the text doesn’t make that clear as it says “that most want London 2012 to have “a lasting positive impact on British society” (58% agree/15% disagree).”

There is a difference between asking whether the olympics will have a lasting positive impact, and whether somebody wants there to be a lasting positive impact. I might want there to be a positive impact, but equally could be sceptical that government, society generally will create one.

Planeshift’s right, Sunder: you want to fix that claim in the OP.

I must say I thought London did a fantastic job during both Olympics. I did not find it overly jingoistic at all. Local athletes are always going to be supported. From what I could see great achievement was cheered no matter where the person came from on the planet.

There was a distinct impression projected of a country more at ease with itself. Only time will tell whether that will have a lasting impact. I think a big factor was in turning the dead tree media from their usual diet of unremitting negativity, to one of positivity. Some would say that they led and others would say they responded to the public mood. We can be quite sure that the predictably negative op-eds were already written years in advance just waiting on the random headline generator. To see the press change so abruptly was kinda funny.

Most of the sniping appeared to come from the permanently angry brigade on the left and right. The usual dreary refrain of the ” yeah, but what about ” took its familiar role of last refuge for the permanently angry.

I think the country can be proud of doing a good job.

Bob B:

‘How come Samuel Johnson – who produced the first English dictionary – was reported by James Boswell to have said: “Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel.”’

Context, dear boy, context. Johnson was a Tory, and he had much national pride. You see, there is a distinction to be made…

Not sure about the relevance of the Iron Duke quote to anything on this thread. Or the amusing Churchill one – and, incidentally, the source of this is the rather unreliable Harold Nicholson.

Katwala:

Enthusiasm for the Olympics was just strongest in Yorkshire and Humberside, where 89% say it has boosted the mood of the nation,

Probably the result of so many gold medal winners from ‘God’s Own County’ (or, as many imagine, ‘Country’).

@25,
Spot on. Let’s see how they feel when Kent deny them promotion in the County Championship later this week.

@10. Chaise Guevara: “Yeah, it’s possibly a vicious cycle: women’s sport doesn’t get much interest because it’s not shown in the first place. But even with equal coverage, I doubt it would get the viewers. It’s generally to a lower standard, as the rules of entry (female only) have had to be built to allow these players into a game where they can compete, similar to under-18s matches.”

Women’s football does not work for me as a spectator. The rules are designed to control and get a game out of male players — at a high athletic level. If we accept that few women athletes will attain the strength or endurance of men, should the same rules apply? What are the rules differences in various sports? In which disciplines do men and women compete as equals?

Jessica Ennis is not a typical Brit, is she?

She’s young.
She’s beautiful.
She has lovely teeth.
She’s healthy.
She’s not overweight.
She’s not a miserable cynic.

I’ve bet Jessica at 14.0 on Betfair to win BBC SPOTY. Such is my commitment to the long term legacy of the olympics. Come on you posters. Talk is cheap, put your house on it. Then lay the bet off at 7.0.

Oh dear. Murray has just won the American open in addition to olympic gold. This is inconvenient.

All paralympians have failed the WCA in games sponsored by Atos. Is this the real legacy. I’m not making this up.

Murray is used to being up against a freakishly high level of competition, so will take his SPOTY defeat calmly.

I’d go for Ellie Simmonds myself – a monster in the pool, engagingly modest out of it.

@ 27 Charlieman

“In which disciplines do men and women compete as equals?”

I can answer that one! Ultimate frisbee. Which is designed to have a relaxed approach: it also uses player agreement to resolve disputes, rather than referees.

All paralympians stand (no pun intended) to lose their disability benefits as they’re fit enough to compete then they’re fit enough to go out & get jobs, just watch it happen.

@13 Bob B

How come Samuel Johnson – who produced the first English dictionary – was reported by James Boswell to have said: “Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel.”

Patriotism was a term invented at that time by radicals to apply to opposition to the King but loyalty to the country.

As a Tory Dr Johnson did not separate the two things: loyalty to your country was loyalty to your King. Hence the saying.

The most important thing in the whole wide world of SPOTY is likely to leave the candidates mentioned trailing. It is the genuine excitement of Mo Farah coming off a bend twice to win gold or Chris Hoy winning twice by even slimmer margins.

My heart, my aching heart, says Jessica Ennis who is all of the things Rosie said about her, my head says Mo Farah.

If I can be arsed to vote at all, Mo Farah it is. I’d call for a ‘Mo Farah for SPOTY’ web site and twitter and stuff, but I assume they already exist…..