The reality of anti-Muslim prejudice in Britain


11:10 am - July 9th 2012

by Guest    


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contribution by Fiyaz Mughal OBE

A few months ago, a Somali woman in her mid-twenties was walking in south London when she had dog faeces placed on her head by a young white male. She only noticed it after she entered a local shop.

Anti-Muslim prejudice has been something that Muslim communities have talked about even before 9/11 and 7/7. Yet tangible data and support for victims has been lacking.

When some Muslims talked about Islamophobia or anti-Muslim prejudice, the response was that they ‘had a chip on their shoulder’ or worse still, ‘were trying to gain sympathy to Islamicise Europe’.

Since February 2012, the TELL MAMA project has supported victims of anti-Muslim prejudice in England and mapped, measured and analysed hotspots where such incidents have been taking place.

Our key findings so far are that the main victims are Muslim women and of those, the most likely to be subjected to anti-Muslim incidents and attacks are those wearing the hijab – the religiously based head covering (even more so if they also wear the niqab, the full face veil).

The main perpetrators of the attacks have been white males between the ages of 20-50 – who it seems had no problem in verbally abusing Muslim women going about their daily business and even on two occasions urinating on a Muslim female in broad daylight on the street or rubbing faeces into her hijab.

One in three of the reported cases involved a perpetrator with a link to the far-right English Defence League (EDL) or the British National Party (BNP).

The day before yesterday, it was Jews; yesterday, the Black community; today it is the Muslims – and who knows what tomorrow will bring.

* * * * * * * * * *

Other incidents
In late May, Tony Vickers Liked the page of the Blackburn English Defence League, (in relation to news reports that Sayeeda Warsi did not report the extra income in the Lord’s Register of Interests), and wrote: “She is just another parasite that is sucking OUR Country dry, i would have no problem putting a piece of lead through her crossed eyed head.”
The incident has now been reported to police for further action. Warsi has also been informed.

One caller told the helpline: “I was on the bus on my way to college when I noticed a man swearing. He became louder and I heard him saying things like ‘take your ******* mask off’, ‘all of you muslim ***** are prostitutes, all of your women’, ‘we’re superior to you, we have black people in America’ and other foul things. I got off the bus a stop earlier as he became more crude and I got on the bus in front.”


Fiyaz Mughal OBE is director of Faith Matters, which runs the TELL MAMA anti-Muslim violence helpline.

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Reader comments


1. Chaise Guevara

Muslims seem to be a popular target of hatred by stupid people. Probably as a result of a combination of brush-tarring, xenophobia and the fact that tabloids still demonise Muslims while having eased off on previous “acceptable targets”.

I remember a comment on Have Your Say, flagged up by the site Speak You’re Branes. This woman was bragging about how she’d seen a Muslim woman praying in a shop and abused her until she’d fled – while presenting herself as the victim for having her eyes offended by someone of another religion.

Anecdotal, of course, but I worry how many people that woman is representative of. People read the tabloids and their exaggerated/made up anti-Muslim stories and end up thinking that abusing Muslims is righteous.

2. the a&e charge nurse

Isn’t there a tiny bit of irony here?

The cultural melting pot that is Britain certainly has racial tensions but compared to many islamic states is something of a nirvana when it comes to the scope most individuals have for expressing personal identity.

Women may have dog shit put on their head which is disgusting, but they never have to fear state sanctioned stoning, or a legal system that discriminates against them purely on the grounds of gender.

I have said many times the best solution to inter group tensions (in the long term) is not finger wagging but the formation of long term relationships between the different protagonists, especially the children that arise from those relationships.

3. Chaise Guevara

@ 2

“I know he punched you in the face, but at least he didn’t murder you like Harold Shipman or someone, so stop whining”.

Perhaps the best solution would be to combat the idea that British Muslims are responsible for the actions of Muslims in other countries – i.e. the attitude that you’re showing here. Irony indeed.

There is, indeed, physical and psychological abuse perpetrated against Muslims and this is deplorable. This, however, annoyed me…

The day before yesterday, it was Jews; yesterday, the Black community; today it is the Muslims – and who knows what tomorrow will bring.

Muslims are not exceptional in facing violence and abuse. Jews, for example, didn’t just endure it “the day before yesterday” – many of them are enduring it today. For example.

A few months ago, a Somali woman in her mid-twenties was walking in south London when she had dog faeces placed on her head by a young white male. She only noticed it after she entered a local shop

Possibly a silly question, but if she didn’t notice the dog muck being put on her head, or know that it was there for some time, how did she know who put it there?

‘we’re superior to you, we have black people in America’ and other foul things.

Eh? Further proof, I suppose, that racists are generally low-watt bulbs.

When critical literature can be classified as an “attack” and written anti-Muslim comment is classified as “abusive behaviour” the resultant statistics (even if we had them) are unlikely to be illuminating. Therefore when we hear that 25% of attacks involve an EDL supporter we would surely fail to be shocked or surprised.

The report concludes that most of the abuse is directed at Muslim women however a lot of evidence suggests that Muslim women experience much higher levels of abuse within their homes than outside them.

Violence of any sort cannot be condoned, but I am not sure that this kind of radically polemical stance in support of Muslims is helpful. Abuse, however motivated, is unpleasant but the level of tragedy alleged here is much less than that caused by, for example, the killings of young black men by knives or the gang raping of vulnerable pre-pubescent girls.

@4 makes a good point and if we look at the history of so-called liberal societies, there is a pattern of scapegoating when the economy becomes depressed. The Jews also experienced a long history of persecution in feudal and semi-feudal societies, particularly in times of harvest failure and famines, but we tend to expect better from social and economic liberalism.

Muslims, the disabled, those on benefits, asylum seekers and economic immigrants are the current victims, on the periphery is single-parents and, to some extent, public-service workers.

Down market tabloids tend to be the preferred medium of hate campaigns, assisted, of course, by a government who are happiest when the real cause of economic decline is lost under a blanket of prejudice

When misogyny and xenophobia collide, very unpleasant stuff.

9. Chaise Guevara

@ 6 pagar

“Violence of any sort cannot be condoned, but I am not sure that this kind of radically polemical stance in support of Muslims is helpful.”

It’s not a radically polemical stance in support of Muslims. It’s a fairly moderate and unremarkable stance in support of Muslim victims of prejudice. Are we reading the same article?

Now, I agree that there are all sorts of prejudice and abuse, and that a Muslim victim is no more important than a non-Muslim one. But this is prejudice that is deliberately driven by the mass media, along with being one that has been on the rise of late (unlike, say, homophobia), not to mention one where there’s been serious talk of bringing in a law specifically to tell Muslims them what they’re allowed to wear in public. So I do think it deserves its own space for discussion.

10. the a&e charge nurse

[3] ‘Perhaps the best solution would be to combat the idea that British Muslims are responsible for the actions of Muslims in other countries’ – nowhere do I say that.

I do say many islamic countries are less tolerant, while some have laws that are barbaric and blatantly sexist – I align myself with the likes of Dawkins or Hitchens when they point to the deeply problematic assumptions associated with islam, or indeed any of the other major theisims.

I have already pointed out that I strongly objected to the abuse of people going about their every day business.

At least try and address the actual points being made, or seek clarification if you are unsure.

11. Shatterface

Muslims are not exceptional in facing violence and abuse. Jews, for example, didn’t just endure it “the day before yesterday” – many of them are enduring it today. For example.

Nothing there you wouldn’t hear on CiF, sadly.

12. Chaise Guevara

@ 10 a&e

Seeking clarification, then, why do you find the suffering of UK Muslims “ironic” considering the suffering meted out by some Middle-Eastern Muslims?

This kind of thing however is worthy of abuse:

http://hurryupharry.org/2012/07/09/the-water-lily-tower-hamlets-a-home-from-home-for-jihadists/

I am unaware of equivalent Jewish or Christian events.

14. Shatterface

I am unaware of equivalent Jewish or Christian events.

And if you look closer you’ll find examples of Muslim on Muslim bigotry at the same event:

http://hurryupharry.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/outside-waterlilly-books.jpg

Some people are just the wrong kind of Muslim.

15. the a&e charge nurse

[12] the complaint relates to intolerance – from what I have heard and read I would say that Britain, for all it’s faults, has done more to accommodate different groups when compared to those countries were islam is the dominant cultural force (although some may wish to argue otherwise).

In fact I would go even further and say that islam, as an ideology, is synonymous with forms of institutionalised oppression that those of a liberal disposition should be wary of (acknowledging the bind associated with trying to respect different belief systems, even when those systems appear inherently problematic, as the likes of Dawkins and the Hitch argue).

Of course none of this excuses attacking women with dog shit, while those doing the attacking may not have taken the trouble to acquaint themselves with nuanced arguments about why large swathes of the population prefer to define themselves using barely credible religious constructs.

So to go back to your original question (about muslims being responsible for what muslims do in other countries) – obviously no muslim in Britain is directly responsible for how the taliban treat women in afghanistan (say) but given that muslims all drink from the same intellectual well (the koran) perhaps they do have a wider interest in the way these teachings are being interpreted, and how behaviours that arise from them (in some parts of the world) are understood amongst communities with very different beliefs?

16. the a&e charge nurse

Oh, and just to add to the irony quotient, Chaise, the one group who really do suffer from Islam (if we take an international perspective) is women.

The scale of racist attacks on muslim women in the UK (while disgusting in their own way) almost pale into insignificance when compared to the sum total of suffering in those countries were old school islam holds sway.

‘Islam, like all religions, strongly influences social, economic and political spheres of life. Tenets that are perceived to be Islamic shape the status of and relationship between women and men. These tenets result in women – because they are women – being denied a number of human rights, for example in cases of divorce or inheritance law. Religious leaders and scholars often justify these
forms of discrimination by referring to Islamic sources’.
http://www.oecd.org/dataoecd/61/20/45743998.pdf

17. Chaise Guevara

@ 15 a&e

Britain is indeed more tolerant than any Muslim country I can think of, and indeed many Western ones. That doesn’t mean we should rest on our laurels, though.

I wouldn’t say that Islam is “synonymous” with forms of institutionalised oppression, as this can occur without Islam or not occur despite Islam. However, I agree that many Islamic states and individual Muslims have oppressive outlooks that are fed by the religion.

I’m not sure why it’s relevant that UK Muslims may have a “wider interest” in the matter, and I still don’t see how it could be ironic – however many of the negative tropes associated with Islam we list – that Muslims are attacked in Britain. If I were murdered, I don’t think people would be saying “Ian Brady was white, and now a white man is murdered! How ironic!” It’s got a boot-is-on-the-other-foot feel to it that ignores whose feet the boot was originally on.

It reminds me of how, whenever a Muslim publically claims they are being denied freedom of speech, someone always feels the need to say “Well you can’t build cathedrals in Saudi Arabia!” as if that somehow excuses it, or as if we should be emulating oppressive states.

18. Chaise Guevara

@ 15 again

BTW, when I say it reminds me of the cathedrals-in-Saud thing, that doesn’t mean I think the two things are equivalent.

Are people being attacked because they are Muslim or because of their race? I suspect there’s a lot of the latter.

I’ve no time for special pleading by religious groups because they say God tells them to ritually slaughter animals inhumanely, chop up children’s genitals or treat women appallingly and I think it’s quite legitimate to call them out on such matters. It’s part of the process of assimilation into British society.

Conflating anti-Islamic attitudes with racist attitudes confuses the issues and allows for the kind of nonsense we see when racists can hide behind Islam or anti-Islam.

No-one is being “denied freedom of speech”.

(Well, perhaps certain cartoonists who now have to live in hiding…)

Some people may be being ignored, which is a little different.

21. Chaise Guevara

@ 20 cjcjc

90% of the time if not more, when a religious person in the UK claims their freedom of speech is being oppressed on religious grounds, they’re talking out of their arse.

However, the correct response is “freedom of speech doesn’t mean the freedom not to be offended”, or indeed “you’re talking out of your arse”. It is not “Well try building a cathedral in Saudi Arabia and see how far you get!”

Stupid people will always hate others. It is worrying though that so many seek to justify Islamophobia, it’s bigotry pure and simple. Anyone who even thinks about adding a “but” to that statement is beyond contempt.

How A&E’s argument might sound to the victim of the dog dirt attack:

“It’s a bit rich for *you* to complain about being attacked and abused by *us*, because I hear you Muslims attack and abuse loads of Muslim women just like you all the time.”

Kafkaesque!

It would be hilarious if so many people out there didn’t think it was common sense…

24. the a&e charge nurse

[22] “It’s a bit rich for *you* to complain about being attacked and abused by *us*, because I hear you Muslims attack and abuse loads of Muslim women just like you all the time.” – isn’t this simply a case of you hearing what YOU want to hear rather than what I actually said?

Women do suffer in this world, but when complaints about suffering arise from somebody who is a representative of a religion that has a well documented record on institutionalised abuse of females I think this has to be pointed out.

Now you might think it is all a matter of geography and so long as this kind of religiously inspired cruelty is happening far enough away we shouldn’t make too much of a fuss about it, but that would be to take a very selective view of the problem in my opinion.

I have repeatedly said Britain has it’s fair share of racists but that overall the harm they do to women pales into insignificance compared to the harm that is undertaken in the name of islam, and that in general terms Britain is a more tolerant country, and accepting of difference compared to those in the grip of religious hard men.

25. Pie Face

@ 23.

Interesting to read that womens’ rights drives this whole view of yours, only a couple of weeks ago you were telling everybody that no didn’t really mean no, and that it wasn’t rape if the woman didn’t fight back… or do we judge muslims by different standards to those we use for wasp celebrities?

@24 Good point that.

27. the a&e charge nurse

[24] ‘only a couple of weeks ago you were telling everybody that no didn’t really mean no, and that it wasn’t rape if the woman didn’t fight back… or do we judge muslims by different standards to those we use for wasp celebrities’

I assume you are referring to my comments about Assange?
My point then was that casual sex is not without risk, and in the absence of forensic evidence proving who did what to who when protagonists give diametrically opposing accounts is very difficult to prove ‘beyond all reasonable doubt’ in a court of law – I said then and I’ll say again that in a post coital moment Assange may have misread the signals given by the person he was in bed with since neither party had very much time to establish what boundaries each was expected to adhere to – as you know JA denies any wrong doing.

At any rate after the first sexual assault the woman attended a crayfish party with Assange and was alleged to have deleted tweets about what a great time she was having with him – having a great time at a crayfish party with the very man who just raped you – it just doesn’t make sense to me.

I don’t think I made any reference to WASP celebrities but you are free to judge the merits of stoning, exclusion from political office (because of gender) or a discriminatory legal system by whatever standards you like – but whichever standard you decide to apply I have yet to hear any commentator on LC defend those aspects of a religion that are so at odds with both liberalism and democracy.

It is depressing that muslim women are being victimised while simply going about their everyday business but I’m not sure what point the OP is trying to make other than the fact it is self evidently wrong – I assume there is an implicit message the likes of EDL is on the rise but Britain has no meaningful history off far right wings group that have amounted to anything more than peripheral pantomime villains.

Looking at the support for right wing parties across Europe Britain is pretty far down the pecking order while is very unlikely that groups like the BNP, and certainly the EDL will even get enough votes for a single MP.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/gall/0,,711990,00.html

28. So Much For Subtlety

17. Chaise Guevara

Britain is indeed more tolerant than any Muslim country I can think of, and indeed many Western ones. That doesn’t mean we should rest on our laurels, though.

That is true. On the other hand we should think clearly and carefully before we act in the hope of making things better. Because the people on the other side of this argument all too often do not represent the Muslim community as a whole, have no interest in tolerance whatsoever, and are simply using this as an excuse to further their goals which is to make the UK a lot more like Saudi Arabia than it is now. Naive well meaning liberals have worked to make that possible and so in many ways Britain is now less liberal than it used to be. Ask Salman Rushdie.

I wouldn’t say that Islam is “synonymous” with forms of institutionalised oppression, as this can occur without Islam or not occur despite Islam. However, I agree that many Islamic states and individual Muslims have oppressive outlooks that are fed by the religion.

Where does it not occur when there is a sizable amount of orthodox style Islam?

It reminds me of how, whenever a Muslim publically claims they are being denied freedom of speech, someone always feels the need to say “Well you can’t build cathedrals in Saudi Arabia!” as if that somehow excuses it, or as if we should be emulating oppressive states.

If that Muslim happens to be, say, Inayat Bungawalla and we have reasonable suspicion that he is getting money from Saudi Arabia, then I think that is a perfectly reasonable response. Again the problem is not that the person making this asinine claim happens to be a Muslim, but because we know they are all too often making a claim in bad faith. They invariably do not want to defend freedom of speech but make Britain more like Saudi Arabia. Often violently. Which is why the only people who have had their freedom of speech reduce are cartoonists and nutters who hate Muslims.

29. So Much For Subtlety

Anti-Muslim prejudice has been something that Muslim communities have talked about even before 9/11 and 7/7. Yet tangible data and support for victims has been lacking.

So you have no data and hence no idea if a problem even exists, but you are certain that you need more funding to combat it?

When some Muslims talked about Islamophobia or anti-Muslim prejudice, the response was that they ‘had a chip on their shoulder’ or worse still, ‘were trying to gain sympathy to Islamicise Europe’.

Which is a fair description of the openly stated goals of a great deal of people who talk about Islamophobia.

Since February 2012, the TELL MAMA project has supported victims of anti-Muslim prejudice in England and mapped, measured and analysed hotspots where such incidents have been taking place.

And your data is? How many reports have you collected?

One in three of the reported cases involved a perpetrator with a link to the far-right English Defence League (EDL) or the British National Party (BNP).

This is interesting. How do they know? Do they wear a party pin? What this looks like to me is people settling scores in their own communities by reporting people known to them. Which suggests the reports are not to be trusted.

The day before yesterday, it was Jews; yesterday, the Black community; today it is the Muslims – and who knows what tomorrow will bring.

Well if sections of the Islamist community get their way, Jews will never go out of fashion.

In late May, Tony Vickers Liked the page of the Blackburn English Defence League, (in relation to news reports that Sayeeda Warsi did not report the extra income in the Lord’s Register of Interests), and wrote: “She is just another parasite that is sucking OUR Country dry, i would have no problem putting a piece of lead through her crossed eyed head.”
The incident has now been reported to police for further action. Warsi has also been informed.

The fact that this is being reported at all suggests how minor the problem is. This is the best they can do? We don’t have a problem.

As an immigrant to the UK (albeit a “white” immigrant) I feel I must comment on this.

Generally the Brits are tolerant, but there’s a sizeable minority that aren’t. While most of this minority won’t ever go so far as being violent towards foreigners, they are not backwards in coming forward about their dislike of immigrants (generally “brown people” as they’re quick to point out when I tell them I am an immigrant).

Go to almost any pub in a generally-white area and you’ll hear really nasty remarks/comments/jokes about non-white people (and Jews too) as if it’s acceptable to hold these views. The ignorance is shocking. As I said I’m white and sound American so people tend not to hold their tongues around me.

So, it doesn’t surprise me that this sort of thing happens. Lots of undereducated people combined with a very, um, imaginative tabloid press leads to these views and actions.

Y

31. Johnny Obvious

The sad fact remains, however, that a Muslim girl is far more likely to be a abused or even murdered by her own family in the name of “honour” than by a white power knucklehead she comes across in the street.

@ 27 A&E.

Yeah yeah, always an excuse.

first of all christians are very respected in muslim countries..and every single incedent agianst them is highlited and treated very sinsetively… islam respects other religions actually we are ordered in quran to treat them with “ber” which means utmost respect and its the same word used to describe how to treat our parents….and in islam there is nothing called “honuor killing” its just part of stupid traditions of illiterate muslims…

Trying to repost – excuse possible repetition – I agree with BenSix – but generally the post was fine and I agree with Chaise Guevara that violence or bigotry against Muslims should be treated as a completely separate issue from Islamist extremism, problems such as honour killings in the UK, and persecution of non-Muslims in Muslim countries.

35. Chaise Guevara

@ 28 SMFS

“Naive well meaning liberals have worked to make that possible”

How, exactly, have liberals been furthering the cause of making the UK more like Saudi?

“and so in many ways Britain is now less liberal than it used to be. Ask Salman Rushdie.”

The fatwa on Rushdie was declared from outside this country, any enforcement of it would have been a criminal offence. I don’t think you can accuse a nation of illiberality due to the actions of criminals (or, in this case, potential actions of hypothetical criminals) unless law simply isn’t enforced in that nation.

Britain is full of illiberal people. That doesn’t mean it’s not a liberal state.

“Where does it not occur when there is a sizable amount of orthodox style Islam? ”

Nowhere I can think of offhand. The point is that “Muslim” =/= “fascist”.

“If that Muslim happens to be, say, Inayat Bungawalla and we have reasonable suspicion that he is getting money from Saudi Arabia, then I think that is a perfectly reasonable response. Again the problem is not that the person making this asinine claim happens to be a Muslim, but because we know they are all too often making a claim in bad faith.”

Sure – if the person in question is being disingenuous or a hypocrite it becomes a different matter.

36. the a&e charge nurse

Interesting academic paper comparing how muslim and irish communities came to be regarded as ‘suspect’ on the back of Britain’s counter terrorism policy
http://www.afinelung.com/?p=4394

The authors conclude that ‘the representations and treatment of the Irish in the past have set a precedent for the treatment of Muslims in the current period. We have traced the way in which the reactions and responses to political violence in 1974 clearly had embedded within them the principles, and gave rise to, the prevention measures that have been practised on an even more systematic scale throughout the 2000s. Despite anti-discrimination legislation, Muslim communities today are subjected to a similar process of construction as ‘suspect’ as Irish communities in the previous era. Few lessons appear to have been learnt from the period of ‘The Troubles’, despite the fact that those who were previously vilified are now part of the government in Northern Ireland with electoral support’.

The authors recommend ‘The conscious avoidance of extreme language and terminology such as ‘evil’, ‘perverse’, ‘barbaric’ and so on, and particularly the association of these terms with Islam and Muslim/s (or any other group), in the media, in political commentary and in policy documents would help to diminish the negative impacts of such representations on Muslim communities’.

They say ‘Muslim women, as is particularly apparent from the ‘veil controversy’, are simultaneously perceived as victims and as symbols of Muslim cultural difference’.

All good points, but disappointingly there is little discussion, or perhaps even recognition of how, or why irish catholicism or wahhabism has contributed to a climate of intolerance, or suffering amongst many of its adherents.
Surely the clever academics can see that indoctrinating children with religious claptrap is tantamount to a form of abuse?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yyNv8kvd2H8&feature=related

Although I won’t deny there are are some signs of Islamophobia now and then, I’m getting sick and tired of the rather inexplicable Islamophilia along liberals and progressives.

I have lived, travelled and worked in many countries (including Muslim ones), I’m also well informed and can state that:
(a) I have never experienced the same degree of tolerance towards other religions in Muslim countries as in other ones (one of the best examples of religious tolerance being Thailand, by the way);
(b) I find most surprising the claim to so many rights and protection for their religion by Muslims compared with ANY other religious group or minority. It’s never enough (look at most recent Fifa’s decision about hijab for women players).
(c) The so-called article perfectly illustrates my point. One incident and Britain is called “anti-Muslim”.
In a secular country -and it’s fair to say that many Muslms are reluctant to accept that, witness the aftermath of the Arab Spring- religion is a private affair and should not invade public spheres as we increasingly witnesss it in European countries (America is used to that, but it’s not its most pleasant side, is it?)
Tolerance must go both ways, and this should be reminded by liberals and not only by conservatives (far-right nationalists have nothing to do we this, as we all know here). As the former Dutch liberal minister Rita Verdonc once said: “Islam’s intolerance finds it hard to manage Dutch tolerance”.

38. Chaise Guevara

@ 36

“I have never experienced the same degree of tolerance towards other religions in Muslim countries as in other ones (one of the best examples of religious tolerance being Thailand, by the way)”

See above for the long discussion on why this is irrelevant whataboutery.

“I find most surprising the claim to so many rights and protection for their religion by Muslims compared with ANY other religious group or minority. It’s never enough (look at most recent Fifa’s decision about hijab for women players).”

If other religions were constantly demonised in the media and there was a serious drive to ban their religious clothing, you might hear more noise from them. This is victim-blaming.

“The so-called article perfectly illustrates my point. One incident and Britain is called “anti-Muslim”.”

Oh no it doesn’t. Now you’re just making things up because you like being offended.

39. Matt Kelly

Shockingly vague article. ‘I’ve got loads of research showing something I already believed in. I’m not going to give any details of this data, but let me give two examples.’

So vacuous. The ensuing discussion board is much more interesting.

40. So Much For Subtlety

33. nermin

first of all christians are very respected in muslim countries..

Sorry but are you paid to come out and make ridiculous statements like this? On what possible planet could anyone look at the violence against Christians, the resulting shrinking Christian populations and claim that this is like anything other than ethnic cleansing?

and every single incedent agianst them is highlited and treated very sinsetively…

Ha! A prize effort at trolling.

islam respects other religions actually we are ordered in quran to treat them with “ber” which means utmost respect and its the same word used to describe how to treat our parents….and in islam there is nothing called “honuor killing” its just part of stupid traditions of illiterate muslims…

Funny so many Muslims think that it is part of their religion. Islam also says Jews and Christians are monkeys and pigs. By all means, tell us how respectful that is.

Chaise Guevara

How, exactly, have liberals been furthering the cause of making the UK more like Saudi?

Well even if we ignore Cherie Blair’s efforts to make the niqaab socially acceptable, how about the Religious Vilification Act which would have made Salman Rushdie’s book illegal? How about the pressure on the police to do nothing about grooming White girls? How about the refusal of the police to accept terrorism was a problem in the Muslim community due to accusations of racism?

The fatwa on Rushdie was declared from outside this country, any enforcement of it would have been a criminal offence. I don’t think you can accuse a nation of illiberality due to the actions of criminals (or, in this case, potential actions of hypothetical criminals) unless law simply isn’t enforced in that nation.

It is not the fatwa per se but the support it got from within this country. It was not the Right that was insisting that assimilation was wrong and Muslim values had to be respected. By and large it was not the Right that said Rushdie had it coming – but parts of the Left did. The Right did not give money to the 7-7 bombers. But the BBC did.

Britain is full of illiberal people. That doesn’t mean it’s not a liberal state.

I agree with that. It is not an illiberal state …. yet. Give it time.

Nowhere I can think of offhand. The point is that “Muslim” =/= “fascist”.

So you agree that everywhere there are orthodox Muslims there is vicious intolerance, but you deny it has anything to do with Islam?

Sure – if the person in question is being disingenuous or a hypocrite it becomes a different matter.

And how many examples are there where they are not?

41. Chaise Guevara

@ SMFS

“Well even if we ignore Cherie Blair’s efforts to make the niqaab socially acceptable, how about the Religious Vilification Act which would have made Salman Rushdie’s book illegal?”

Why do I have the feeling that the people who wanted this act were not liberals? Oh, it’s because they were demanding illiberal legislation. That was easy.

“How about the pressure on the police to do nothing about grooming White girls? ”

From whom?

“How about the refusal of the police to accept terrorism was a problem in the Muslim community due to accusations of racism?”

What refusal? I seem to remember a lot of stories about suspected Muslim terrorists being arrested over the past few years, which kind of contradicts your claim.

“It is not the fatwa per se but the support it got from within this country. It was not the Right that was insisting that assimilation was wrong and Muslim values had to be respected. By and large it was not the Right that said Rushdie had it coming – but parts of the Left did.”

Maybe a few idiots.

“The Right did not give money to the 7-7 bombers. But the BBC did.”

Source. Although this is tangental as the BBC isn’t liberal.

“I agree with that. It is not an illiberal state …. yet. Give it time.”

We are moving away from liberalism ATM, but I personally suspect we’ll be ok long-term.

“So you agree that everywhere there are orthodox Muslims there is vicious intolerance, but you deny it has anything to do with Islam?”

Sigh. Straw man. Where did I deny it had anything to do with Islam? Was it where I said: “I agree that many Islamic states and individual Muslims have oppressive outlooks that are fed by the religion”?

Stop arguing with people who aren’t there.

“And how many examples are there where they are not?”

I don’t know. As many as there are moderate Muslims in Britain, because plenty of people (see above) want to burden them with the blame for the actions of Middle Eastern fundies.


Reactions: Twitter, blogs
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    The reality of anti-Muslim prejudice in Britain http://t.co/4spSvHGt

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    The reality of anti-Muslim prejudice in Britain http://t.co/4spSvHGt

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    The reality of anti-Muslim prejudice in Britain http://t.co/4spSvHGt

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    The reality of anti-Muslim prejudice in Britain http://t.co/4spSvHGt

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    The reality of anti-Muslim prejudice in Britain http://t.co/4spSvHGt

  8. leftlinks

    Liberal Conspiracy – The reality of anti-Muslim prejudice in Britain http://t.co/Zb5DO2vL

  9. Zbigniew G

    @MPACUK a piece on Islamophobia in britain http://t.co/3Hl0K7T4 #siw2012

  10. MPACUK

    @MPACUK a piece on Islamophobia in britain http://t.co/3Hl0K7T4 #siw2012

  11. 3FF

    The reality of anti-Muslim prejudice in Britain | Liberal Conspiracy http://t.co/Eso7qWgF via @libcon Troubling facts told by Fiyaz Mughal

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    The reality of anti-Muslim prejudice in Britain | Liberal Conspiracy http://t.co/Eso7qWgF via @libcon Troubling facts told by Fiyaz Mughal

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    The reality of anti-Muslim prejudice in Britain http://t.co/oupT5qBh

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    The reality of anti-Muslim prejudice in Britain | Liberal Conspiracy http://t.co/Eso7qWgF via @libcon Troubling facts told by Fiyaz Mughal

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    RT“@asbdw: The reality of anti-Muslim prejudice in Britain http://t.co/ACHGe7Qq” Gut wrenching mistreatment

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    The reality of anti-Muslim prejudice in Britain | Liberal Conspiracy http://t.co/FnPW8JfR

  20. sunny hundal

    @abu_activist yeah we ran a story on this too http://t.co/HxtQw9v3

  21. BevR

    The reality of anti-Muslim prejudice in Britain | Liberal Conspiracy http://t.co/NR3SXLlE via @libcon

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    Long way for us Muslims to go in Britain to be considered equal citizens not just in institutions but society in… http://t.co/9weH6G7T

  24. Nemesis Republic

    The reality of anti-Muslim prejudice in Britain http://t.co/jpAub9As < people like @comradedave fuel this sort of hate #EDL #BNP





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