Ed Miliband needs to seize the agenda, but not via more thinkers


8:45 am - March 27th 2012

by Sunny Hundal    


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Polly Toynbee is absolutely right in the Guardian today. She says: ‘This is a moment for Labour to seize’.

It is indeed. Labour has gone from a lead of zero to nearly 10pts (it’ll settle to 7-8 pts soon) in two months. Plus, Ed Miliband is doing an excellent job of bashing the Conservatives when he stands up in the Commons; his performance on Budget day was stellar.

But where I slightly disagree with Polly is on her proposed solutions.

She says:

Ed Miliband should summon an advisory council of far-sighted thinkers, Ha-Joon Chang, Will Hutton, David Blanchflower and Joseph Stiglitz, to sharpen his concept of “responsible capitalism”. He needs intellectual authority to bolster his ideas for growth, with convincing new fiscal rules.

I agree with her on the substance, but the last thing Ed Miliband now needs is to surround himself with more thinkers.

The problem for Ed Miliband can be boiled down to this: he is not making big, bold, symbolic statements. He is instead trying to forge a way forward intellectually and through policy discussions – as a think-tanker would do.

I know that Polly Toynbee knows this, but she isn’t being blunt about it.

I’ll be blunt: Ed Miliband needs to signal his direction not via more speeches (which only reach Westminster) but decisions big enough that reverberate around the country.

This requires some radical thinking, not more speeches. If, for example, you wanted to signal that you were also determined to bring down the deficit, you would need to take a huge step rather than outline narrow, technical positions. For example: kill the High Speed Rail 2 project. That would save £40bn (‘hey voters, Labour don’t think £40bn should be wasted‘) and create enough of a bombshell to reverberate across the country.

There are other ideas too: call for an EU Referendum. Ed Miliband’s problem isn’t that he is not seen as intelligent enough; his problem is that he isn’t seen decisive and strong enough to take big, bold decisions.

Voters want bold leaders at times of (economic) crisis. They still rate Cameron above average because they think he is willing to take difficult decisions to steer the economy – even if they’re not clear what those decisions are.

That is Ed Miliband’s hurdle right there: a propensity to continue playing it safe at a time voters want someone willing to take risks.

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About the author
Sunny Hundal is editor of LC. Also: on Twitter, at Pickled Politics and Guardian CIF.
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Reader comments


How about “We think we should waste money on renewing Trident”?

2. Man on Clapham Omnibus

Couldn’t agree more with this. Sadly however, when Sunny asked for some policy initiatives on this site, very little seemed to be forthcoming. Perhaps this is the nub of the issue.No one of the left no longer knows what to be bold about.
Maybe more foreward thinking is required. As well as being bold, leaders need to show vision and without a longer term view that wont be possible to demonstrate. As to the suggestion regarding Rail 2 ,is there not a case for attempting to extend development away from the SE to other parts of the country and isnt transport hugely important in the process?

3. DisgustedOfTunbridgeWells

Miliband is doing exactly the same thing Cameron did – Blair got rid of three tory leaders in his time, not by ‘winning the argument’ but by moving to their right and making them appear redundant. Whilst this utterly decimated political plurality and left almost half the country without any representation, it was massively successful for Blair.

By the time Cameron came along tory hq had got wise and rather than giving NL any leverage, Cameron just sat and kept his mouth shut for five years.

Anyone expecting some kind of grandiose speech or a ‘seizing’ of the day from Miliband is going to be very disappointed, he’s following exactly the same strategy.

How about “We think we should waste money on illegally renewing Trident”?

FYP HTH HAND.

4. Man on Clapham Omnibus

@3 so how has Milliband moved to the right of Cameron?

Let’s face it: thinkers are a regular source of embarrassment to Labour and a perennial brake on progress. As Harold put it: The Labour Party is like a stage-coach. If you rattle along at great speed everybody is too exhilerated or too seasick to cause any trouble. But if you stop everybody gets out and argues about where to go next.

As Tennyson aptly put it in another context: Ours is not to reason why, Ours is but to do and die.

And Orwell on behalf of Goldstein: “Even the humblest Party member is expected to be competent, industrious, and even intelligent within narrow limits, but it is also necessary that he should be a credulous and ignorant fanatic whose prevailing moods are fear, hatred, adulation, and orgiastic triumph.”

6. Shatterface

As Tennyson aptly put it in another context: Ours is not to reason why, Ours is but to do and die.

That was in The Charge of the Light Brigade.

Remind me how that turned out?

7. Chaise Guevara

@ 6

As I recall, it was magnificent, but it wasn’t war.

Killing HS2 would be foolish.

Yeah, there is an easy line there, but in the end £40bn won’t be shaved off the deficit (the cashflow would be over several years and that also ignores the multiplier impact to local economies).

And we do need that high speed line.

Labour should not fall for all of the highly simplistic Tory tropes.

9. Man on Clapham Omnibus

@5

Its all very well to quote a few chaps but at the end of the day policy is needed.
As for Harold ,there isnt any stage-coach any more,the wheels fell off of it years ago.
We are entering an era like never before. Oil running out, Capitalism crashing and with the ascendancy of China and India, parts of the West rapidly entering third world status. On top of that the eco system of the planet is bordering on self destruct and undobtedly will involved the deaths of millions(possibly billions) of people in the long term.
I suggest there is a real need for policy and none of it will relate to business as usual.

“If, for example, you wanted to signal that you were also determined to bring down the deficit, you would need to take a huge step rather than outline narrow, technical positions. For example: kill the High Speed Rail 2 project. That would save £40bn (‘hey voters, Labour don’t think £40bn should be wasted‘) and create enough of a bombshell to reverberate across the country.”

Talk about trying to beat the Tories at their own game. Do we really want to go into the next election scrabbling to be the party that’s committed to the lowest levels of investment spending, and attacking the Tories on the grounds that you don’t reduce the deficit by putting people to work on pro-growth infrastructure projects – you reduce it by spending less money?

‘Bombshell’ is right. It would instantly obliterate the anti-austerity, pro-jobs, pro-growth message the Left have been pushing for the past two years. (Unless there was a more nuanced case to be made that there are more productive ways to spend that money – but presumably the whole point of such a grand gesture would be that nuance doesn’t come into it. It would be a simple message of ‘the Tories say spend, we say cut’.)

@2: Sadly however, when Sunny asked for some policy initiatives on this site, very little seemed to be forthcoming.

Here’s 4 policy ideas for Ed. They’re all sensible ones, all probably vote winners, but i bet he doesn’t pick any of them up.

1. proportional representation. Will scoop up votes from disillusioned lib dems

2. scrap the digital economy act. Internet issues are becoming more prominent, and this will only continue between now and the general election

3. affordable housing for all. As opposed to the Tories, who think only the rich should get a decent place to live

4. no-one to pay a higher marginal tax rate than anyone earning more money than them. This to continue to be true when tax avoidance scheme available to the rich are taken into account, and when withdrawal of benefits is taekn into account. The Tories are vulnerable as being seen to be the party of the rich. This emphasizes that.

“If, for example, you wanted to signal that you were also determined to bring down the deficit”

Why do you continue to perpetuate this myth?

“For example: kill the High Speed Rail 2 project. That would save £40bn”

As others have pointed out, even if the deficit was an issue this wouldn’t help and further more HS2 is exactly the kind of infrastructure project Labour should be promoting.

I know these were both ‘examples’ – but they were bad ones!

@4 He said he’s doing what Cameron did, not what Blair did.

14. Chaise Guevara

@ 11 Phil

Thanks to the AV referedum, I think campaigning for PR would become a stick for the Tories to beat Ed with. “He won’t take no for an answer!” they’d fallaciously cry, and unfortunately the tabloids would sing along.

Agree with the other three. I don’t think the second one is a vote-winner, but it’s probably a good idea on its own merits.

“he is not making big, bold, symbolic statements”

Spot on. This is the point I was trying to make the other day about Miliband’s failure to seize the initiative on the NHS – it’s not Burnham who should be making bold promises to reverse the bill, it’s Ed.

The trouble is many, including myself, are inclined to suspect that his lack of nerve signals a lack of commitment.

Excellent post.

16. Man on Clapham Omnibus

@11

Why do you think he wont go with any of your suggestions?

@8

And we do need that high speed line.

I doubt you’d be so keen if your home were to be demolished to make way for it, or your farm cut in half by it, or your village comprehensively trashed by construction work.

We probably don’t need t, as it would service a well-heeled customer base who could well afford to fly. This is a tiny island, not the US or even France – nowhere is actually very far from anywhere else by normal train, so what’s the rush?

As with high-speed flight (Concorde – and look how that eventually turned out), high-speed rail prices will very likely be pitched at a level beyond the reach of the masses – and they’re the people who’d make it pay. (Or, at least, not lose money too catastrophically.)

High-speed rail is nothing but a vanity project.

18. Man on Clapham Omnibus

@15

I think Ed’s reluctance on the NHS is due to the complete game changer Cameron is engineering. By the time of the next elections, the ink will have long dried on the private contracts. Look at the mess of PFI for example. Given that the coalition is not a legitimate government in the sense that the policies presented at the election aren’t the policies being implemented, I am sure he is also wary of further undermining the political landscape by promising something that no-one can deliver.

ed should kill a horse on live tv that is the only way

I think what Ed needs to do now is to kill a horse on live tv it is the only way to be sure

21. Chaise Guevara

@ 17 Ron

“I doubt you’d be so keen if your home were to be demolished to make way for it, or your farm cut in half by it, or your village comprehensively trashed by construction work.”

And I bet you’d feel a lot better about it if you were in the target market. It’s easy to skew an issue by appealing to anecdotal examples.

“We probably don’t need t, as it would service a well-heeled customer base who could well afford to fly.”

We don’t WANT people to fly. It fucks up the environment.

“This is a tiny island, not the US or even France – nowhere is actually very far from anywhere else by normal train, so what’s the rush?”

Are you honestly saying that there’s something inherently wrong with wanting shorter journey times? It’s not a rush, it’s a simple and understandable desire to save time. Less time travelling = more time with the family.

“As with high-speed flight (Concorde – and look how that eventually turned out), high-speed rail prices will very likely be pitched at a level beyond the reach of the masses – and they’re the people who’d make it pay. (Or, at least, not lose money too catastrophically.)”

If I believed this would permanently be the case, I’d agree with you. But as you mention flight, plane journeys used to be the preserve of the rich and famous, and even after that were for a long time out of the reach of lower earners. Now you can get tickets to Greece for £50.

For me, the issue is that our public transport infrastructure needs investment, and that even a suspiciously snazzy project like this is a step in the right direction.

22. Man on Clapham Omnibus

@17

Welcome to the Capitalist State. Regretably the over development of the SE is exactly mirrored by the desolation that is the north. The only way long term to take the pressure of the SE is to attempt to reduce travel times for services and goods up and down the country. That way opportunities are open for all regions. I do think however such a development should be open to all and clearly policies relating to fare pricing must be considered. In my view that has to happen in the context of the renationalising of the Rail System. I am sorry about your house but this sort of thing happens all the time ,albeit perhaps not generally in Tory areas.

Will the Labour Party be handing out, No Thinking posters?

Seriously, I think the notion that “thinking is bad” is at the root of why some Labour controlled local education authorities remain at the bottom of the LEA league table year after year.

24. Man on Clapham Omnibus

@23 Utter nonsense. It is rather that many of these boroughs are the poorest in the land. That is what poverty is about!

I think this would be a bad idea for a few reasons:

– It might be a symbolic gesture, but it’s easy to explain that £40bn in capital spending doesn’t affect the deficit much, because it’s a single expenditure rather than an annual commitment. It certainly doesn’t affect the structural deficit.

– It undermines the ‘growth’ message and ‘investment in infrastructure’ message. And what of the stimulus? What would a stimulus be if not a massive public works project?

– HS2 was in Labour’s 2010 manifesto, it looks hypocritical to oppose it, which is connected to

– If anything Labour is quite vulnerable for looking like it opposes everything the coalition comes up with. Of course, opposing a spending commitment isn’t really the same as opposing a cut, but it just makes it look like Labour says no to everything without thinking about it.

– I think you’re right about policy initiatives, but Labour should avoid new policy initiatives being opposing what the coalition is doing – rather it should be something they’ve thought of. Setting the agenda can’t really mean responding to a Government policy.

– I think I’m going to write the second part of that piece on industrial democracy you posted up here a while ago (with concrete proposals)

@24: “Utter nonsense. It is rather that many of these boroughs are the poorest in the land. That is what poverty is about!”

That’s utter nonsense. The districts persistently ranked at the bottom of the LEA league table remain there because of persistently poor schooling standards, which adversely affect local youthful job prospects because better educated and skilled employees can be recruited from easter European migrants or because work can be outsourced abroad to places where labour costs are lower at prevailing exchange rates. Poor local job prospects ensure Labour controlled councils.

The London borough where I live regularly comes at or near to the top of the LEA league table even though it is a modest spender on schools and didn’t feature in the Daily Mail table of the 100 most affluent constituencies in England:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-477325/League-Wealth-Tables.html

In short, affluence is no guarantee of good schooling.

27. Cheesy Monkey

Miliband may well personally want to make such bigger, bolder statements—but I don’t think the current Labour strategy will allow for that. To these admittedly somewhat jaded eyes, Labour appears to have reanimated the old Philip Gould approach of appealing to floating voters in the marginals. If this will actually work is anyone’s guess: it could be argued that selfish-minded floaters normally swayed by the promise of tax cuts voted Labour in 1997 to fix the NHS as their parents were old and in need. As many of those parents are dead now, these voters may have just reverted to type. But as they are highly electorally significant, Labour may feel that they cannot endorse any policy which smacks of ‘spending’ or oppose expenditure cuts too vigorously. Highly depressing, but understandable.

@27 “Labour appears to have reanimated the old Philip Gould approach of appealing to floating voters in the marginals”

By reports, Philip Gould was responsible for arranging that Labour rally in Sheffield shortly before the 1992 election:

“So what did cost Labour the 1992 election? Worcester has no doubt that it was the Sheffield rally, just eight days before polling day. On the eve of the rally, three polls came out, showing a seven-point lead, a six-point lead and a four-point lead for Labour. That day, Labour peaked.” [New Statesman 11 December 1998]

To get a flavour of why that rally generated such an adverse reaction, try this BBC video clip:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/static/vote2001/in_depth/election_battles/1992qt_sheffield.stm

Scrap Trident. Reform renting. Overturn NHS cuts. Be bold about welfare ie admit we need it and stop punishing claimants. End tax avoidance. Then I would vote for Labour. But not now.

30. Cheesy Monkey

@28

Do you have anything relevant to say on this thread?

@30 Cheesy Monkey: “Do you have anything relevant to say on this thread?”

Plenty – check it out. A chunk of the Labour Party doesn’t like thinking and wants to discourage it for the very reasons that Harold said @5. One way of discouraging reflective thinking is for Labour controlled LEAs to run bad schools, which tends to ensure continued Labour control of the council

You mentioned Philip Gould so I thought to check out his CV @28.

I can easily understand why you regard that as “irrelevant”. As Mandy Rice Davies was wont to say, “You would, wouldn’t you?”

Have a look at this, people want Ed Mil to have a go at the Tories and repeal the NHS Bill.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o0QRCVp7OdQ#cash4access

Ordinary people want some leadership from him. Just having a go at the Tories for Cruddas/NHS etc wouod be good enough to start with.

Just having a go at the Tories for Cruddas/NHS etc wouod be good enough to start with

He did that on budget day!

Phil Hunt: just to go through your ideas…

1. proportional representation. Will scoop up votes from disillusioned lib dems

But split Labour – as people want to retain the constituency link. If you mean AV+ – then yes, but that argument is dead for at least 10-15 yrs. Even a quarter of LDs didn’t vote for AV.

2. scrap the digital economy act. Internet issues are becoming more prominent, and this will only continue between now and the general election

Am with you but its not a doorstep issue.


3. affordable housing for all. As opposed to the Tories, who think only the rich should get a decent place to live

Agreed, and Labour said they’d spend £6bn building houses – though one still has to explain where the money will come from.

4. no-one to pay a higher marginal tax rate than anyone earning more money than them.

Also agreed, but how do you plan to reform the tax system to make sure this happens?

I hope Ed Miliband does remain leader for Labour through the whole Parliament because all the time he remains Labour hasn’t a chance of re-election! I hope the remaining period of the Coalition is sufficient to undo the years of damage Labour did to this country bringing it to its needs with absurd unsustainable spending. He is no match to the likes of DC and NC in whom I have complete trust in turning around our country’s situation.

36. Man on Clapham Omnibus

@34

Sunny ,a couple of weeks ago you asked for ideas. In between the regular bitching that goes on here you indeed got some suggestions. Sadly, there doesnt seem to be any continuity thereafter. For example :-

Suggestion
4. no-one to pay a higher marginal tax rate than anyone earning more money than them.
You Answer
Also agreed, but how do you plan to reform the tax system to make sure this happens?

Is that it then? I would have thought the discussion might be worthy or a little more than a one liner. In fact I think that particular issue should run and run.
So why wont it on your site and does being left wing these days just involve bitching?

37. Man on Clapham Omnibus

@35

Oops sounds like you escaped from somewhere.Tory HQ perhaps?

38. Chaise Guevara

@ 37 MoCO

“Tory HQ perhaps?”

On weekends, I suspect, he goes on forums to voice his opinions on consumer products, thusly:

“Hey guys, cool site, did I tell you that I bought an Acme Supereasy Can Opener [link] the other day? I had my doubts, but it makes opening cans a breeze, and is an absolute bargain at the price! Plus, apparently the Acme Supereasy Can Opener [link] is available at all major supermarkets and homewear stores! Catch you later!”

Let’s face it. Thinking is danegrous. There is always the serious risk that someone could come up with a new thought.

Hi Sunny – just noticed PP is no more. Good luck with the new enterprise!

Don’t agree re Ed though – busted flush I’m afraid.

He may have the right policies but I can’t see people “believing” in him.

I suppose if Labour do keep him, what he needs is not more policy or speeches, but an “Iron Lady” style overhaul – voice, look, everything. If he remains school prefect, he will never make it to the Head’s office…

This poll lead simply won’t last – and in any case as he stands he’ll be beaten up by Clegg and Cameron in any election debate.


Reactions: Twitter, blogs
  1. Liberal Conspiracy

    Ed Miliband needs to seize the agenda, but not via more thinkers http://t.co/clcPPO1x

  2. punkscience

    RT @libcon: Ed Miliband needs to seize the agenda, but not via more thinkers http://t.co/cUSBK5RN << No, actually he needs to fuck off & die

  3. BevR

    Ed Miliband needs to seize the agenda, but not via more thinkers http://t.co/PpoKg5Zq via @libcon #ournhs #wrb #democracybroken #corruption

  4. Jason Brickley

    Ed Miliband needs to seize the agenda, but not via more thinkers http://t.co/lvoOA5aO

  5. Patron Press - #P2

    #UK : Ed Miliband needs to seize the agenda, but not via more thinkers http://t.co/3g2IrrI5

  6. paulfodz

    #UK : Ed Miliband needs to seize the agenda, but not via more thinkers http://t.co/3g2IrrI5

  7. leftlinks

    Liberal Conspiracy – Ed Miliband needs to seize the agenda, but not via more thinkers http://t.co/6RnrOCgc

  8. @GrannyWils

    Ed Miliband needs to seize the agenda, but not via more thinkers | Liberal Conspiracy http://t.co/2MoYr89s via @libcon

  9. Omar Sahal

    @libcon indulges It's infatuation with Ed Miliband http://t.co/QTp6otPh

  10. Samantha

    Ed Miliband needs to seize the agenda, but not via more thinkers …: Polly Toynbee is absolutely right in the G… http://t.co/qLyPL1BA

  11. Foxy52

    Ed Miliband needs to seize the agenda, but not via more thinkers http://t.co/PpoKg5Zq via @libcon #ournhs #wrb #democracybroken #corruption

  12. Stop HS2

    Sunny Hundal suggests Ed Miliband should seize the agenda and cancel #HS2 | Liberal Conspiracy http://t.co/Uaqb7BNq via @libcon Sunny Hundal

  13. Joe Rukin

    Sunny Hundal suggests Ed Miliband should seize the agenda and cancel #HS2 | Liberal Conspiracy http://t.co/Uaqb7BNq via @libcon Sunny Hundal

  14. Lizzy

    Sunny Hundal suggests Ed Miliband should seize the agenda and cancel #HS2 | Liberal Conspiracy http://t.co/Uaqb7BNq via @libcon Sunny Hundal

  15. Ben Cadwallader

    Sunny Hundal suggests Ed Miliband should seize the agenda and cancel #HS2 | Liberal Conspiracy http://t.co/Uaqb7BNq via @libcon Sunny Hundal

  16. sunny hundal

    Ed Miliband needs to seize the agenda, but not through more thinkers http://t.co/PYJ16yDx (where I slightly disagree with @pollytoynbee)

  17. Matthew Goodwin

    Excellent points by @Sunny_Hundal to Ed M: get past think-tankers, intellectuals and Westminster village http://t.co/tSIxLlMr

  18. sunny hundal

    Excellent points by @Sunny_Hundal to Ed M: get past think-tankers, intellectuals and Westminster village http://t.co/tSIxLlMr

  19. bill bold

    Read @sunny_hundal 's excellent piece on how Miliband needs to seize the agenda (but not via more thinkers): http://t.co/nMsQDcK9

  20. RedBlackPaws

    Excellent points by @Sunny_Hundal to Ed M: get past think-tankers, intellectuals and Westminster village http://t.co/tSIxLlMr

  21. Marcus A. Roberts

    @sunny_hundal NO NO NO NO NO!!! You have written exactly what @Ed_Miliband must NOT do!!! http://t.co/DVbXXuYk #Ihearthighspeedrail

  22. Belinda Naylor

    "Ed Miliband should kill the #HS2 rail project and save £40bn" http://t.co/YNCLyRyQ by @sunny_hundal

  23. sunny hundal

    "Ed Miliband should kill the #HS2 rail project and save £40bn" http://t.co/YNCLyRyQ by @sunny_hundal

  24. representingthemambo

    "Ed Miliband should kill the #HS2 rail project and save £40bn" http://t.co/YNCLyRyQ by @sunny_hundal

  25. Josh Kitto

    "Ed Miliband should kill the #HS2 rail project and save £40bn" http://t.co/YNCLyRyQ by @sunny_hundal

  26. Polly Eddis

    "Ed Miliband should kill the #HS2 rail project and save £40bn" http://t.co/YNCLyRyQ by @sunny_hundal

  27. Andrew Martin

    "Ed Miliband should kill the #HS2 rail project and save £40bn" http://t.co/YNCLyRyQ by @sunny_hundal

  28. David Richards

    Sunny Hundal suggests Ed Miliband should seize the agenda and cancel #HS2 | Liberal Conspiracy http://t.co/Uaqb7BNq via @libcon Sunny Hundal

  29. sunny hundal

    Ed Miliband needs to seize the agenda, but not listen to more thinkers http://t.co/PYJ16yDx (me, disagreeing a bit with @pollytoynbee)

  30. TeresaMary

    Ed Miliband needs to seize the agenda, but not listen to more thinkers http://t.co/PYJ16yDx (me, disagreeing a bit with @pollytoynbee)

  31. Jamie Cartwright

    Ed Miliband needs to seize the agenda, but not listen to more thinkers http://t.co/PYJ16yDx (me, disagreeing a bit with @pollytoynbee)

  32. Louise Gaunt

    "Ed Miliband should kill the #HS2 rail project and save £40bn" http://t.co/YNCLyRyQ by @sunny_hundal

  33. What is HS2 costing?

    "Ed Miliband should kill the #HS2 rail project and save £40bn" http://t.co/YNCLyRyQ by @sunny_hundal

  34. Vanessa King

    "Ed Miliband should kill the #HS2 rail project and save £40bn" http://t.co/YNCLyRyQ by @sunny_hundal

  35. Joe Rukin

    "Ed Miliband should kill the #HS2 rail project and save £40bn" http://t.co/YNCLyRyQ by @sunny_hundal

  36. Hal Berstram

    @DPJHodges @sunny_hundal they have indeed. Take http://t.co/LobQf0Kx for example. Cutting but not hysterical… no Ralph Nader comparisons!

  37. sunny hundal

    Just putting it out there, but I said months ago Labour should kill HS2. Even wrote it here http://t.co/PYIWyYun

  38. Foxy52

    Just putting it out there, but I said months ago Labour should kill HS2. Even wrote it here http://t.co/PYIWyYun

  39. Stop HS2

    RT @sunny_hundal Just putting it out there, but I said months ago Labour should kill HS2. Even wrote it here http://t.co/EqGXRTzr

  40. Belinda Naylor

    RT @sunny_hundal: Just putting it out there, but I said months ago Labour should kill #HS2. Even wrote it here http://t.co/pzwtGiiY





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