Anti-abortion preachers caught on film


9:30 am - March 14th 2012

by Sunny Hundal    


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Women’s groups expressed outrage this week after an anti-abortion group was accused of intimidating vulnerable women going into an abortion clinic in London.

On Monday this week, a man was seen filming women going into the BPAS clinic in central London.

When confronted, he refused to stop filming and acted aggressively towards those questioning his tactics.

The incident is the latest sign that anti-abortion activists in the UK are importing tactics from religious groups in the the United States.

We reported last week that a group calling themselves 40 Days for Life is holding a “prayer vigil” outside the BPAS clinic in London.

Yesterday I went to see them.

They denied that the person filming was part of their group and claimed no knowledge of where he was from.

.

.


(their ‘props’)

I also filmed them (with permission) briefly

(the woman questioning them was clearly not a fan of their work)

BPAS told me they are now seeking a meeting with the Department of Health to discuss increasing incidents of anti-abortion harassment.

A spokesperson told the Guardian:

A culture seems to be being fostered where protesters (when they are not filming) think it is entirely acceptable to harangue women outside centres and tell them if they go inside they will be lied to. There is certainly evidence of women being really quite distressed and feeling intimidated on what can already often be quite a difficult day for them.

Religious groups have also organised other anti-abortion “vigils” outside clinics in recent weeks.

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About the author
Sunny Hundal is editor of LC. Also: on Twitter, at Pickled Politics and Guardian CIF.
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Reader comments


Sunny,

Is there any reason to believe that the man filming was connected to those holding a prayer vigil (presumably to get God to allow them to interfere in the lives of others)? I doubt we can realistically do anything about those who want to protest (so long as they don’t set up tents…) but the filming does sound like harrasment.

Is the Pope a Catholic? Anti-abortion protesters will always be with us. Here in Ireland abortion is banned and is not a subject deemed even worthy of debate, as most people are against it (I presume). Filming people is very creepy of course. But as everyone has a camera phone these days, everything gets filmed.

Well I suppose unemployed Christians need to find something to do with their spare time…

Wow there is evidence on film that Anti-abortion preachers preach anti abortion!

As far as Im aware filming people is legal, after all Ive seen plenty of video on this site from other demonstrations, including many incidents with police.

Whats the difference?

5. Chaise Guevara

@ 4 Dave

“As far as Im aware filming people is legal, after all Ive seen plenty of video on this site from other demonstrations, including many incidents with police.

Whats the difference?”

Filming abusive police is a defence tactic, filming people going about their lawful business (that you happen to disapprove of) is an intimidation tactic.

I realise it might be hard to distinguish those in law, but there’s a massive moral divide.

Dave,

I am not sure filming people going to have an abortion is not harrasment myself – especially if efforts are made to film the face.

On the other hand, general filming is fine – it is how it is done that is key.

7. Heather Wallace

I got a lot angrier after Sunny left. Even gave them the web address of a pregnancy medical journal to look at the issues (and the images) surrounding. And the old bloke (you can’t see him in this vid) proceeded to be incredibly patronising.

They also said, several times, that they didn’t represent the organisation in the leaflets or could back up any of the claims the leaflets made. When I asked them why they were supporting someone they couldn’t substantiate, they dodged. And when I asked them if they didn’t think it was offensive to pray at someone who didn’t share their religion, they didn’t think it was.

next time I’m going to quote Matthew 6:5 (aka the Sermon on the Mount) at them. No praying in public in an *obvious* way. Especially on street corners where you can be seen to be praying.

8. Shatterface

You should change the headline. Anti-Abortionist Preachers Caught on Film makes it sound like they were caught preaching, which they have a right to.

This is harrassment and intimidation

I realise it might be hard to distinguish those in law, but there’s a massive moral divide.

I doubt that the police would agree. Film them beating up a protestor and you’ll be nicked for terrorist offences.

9. Chaise Guevara

@ 8 Shatterface

“I doubt that the police would agree. Film them beating up a protestor and you’ll be nicked for terrorist offences.”

How often does that actually happen, given the huge amount of people filming the cops during the recent protests?

In any case: they’re wrong. There IS a huge moral difference.

Hi Heather, pleased to make your acquaintance yesterday :)

You had more patience than me in trying to get sense out of them.

They’re rather a pitiful, bedraggled pair. I feel a bit sorry for them. Actually, not really. After a thousand years of their violent persecution of others christians really are rightly on the back foot. I don’t like abortion per se – selective terminations for ‘lifestyle’ and ‘cultural’ reasons are hideous. But I am in favour of upholding the law fought for and achieved for very good reasons and I am against the interference in people’s lives by fanatical fantasists; in the unlikely event that anti-abortionists take their actions to the same level seen in the USA they should be met with a very robust response.

Filming abusive police is a defence tactic, filming people going about their lawful business (that you happen to disapprove of) is an intimidation tactic.

Perhaps, though I think this really depends entirely upon your point of view.

PS, I dont happen to disapprove of abortion.

“There is certainly evidence of women being really quite distressed and feeling intimidated on what can already often be quite a difficult day for them.”

I accept that it is a difficult day for such a woman, and for the child in her womb.

14. Chaise Guevara

@ 12 Dave

“Perhaps, though I think this really depends entirely upon your point of view. ”

You don’t think there’s an important difference between a) recording a crime that the perp would otherwise get away with and b) filming people who aren’t in breach of the law simply because you and others disagree with what they’re doing?

You don’t think there’s an important difference between a) recording a crime that the perp would otherwise get away with and b) filming people who aren’t in breach of the law simply because you and others disagree with what they’re doing?

I meant the point of view in what constitutes abuse, i have seen many videos featuring police who were also in breach of no law. What’s the difference?

16. Chaise Guevara

@ 15 Dave

“I meant the point of view in what constitutes abuse, i have seen many videos featuring police who were also in breach of no law. What’s the difference?”

Oh, I see. Well, I think the most important factor is less the filming and more the publication. If a video is passed to authorities as evidence of a crime, that’s good. If it’s put on YouTube as evidence of a crime, that’s less good, but sometimes the only response if the authorities refuse to address the issue. If no crime’s been committed but the people in question are in the background and not focused on, that’s ok.

Where it becomes a BIG problem is if the filmer posts, or threatens to post, the video online with the intent of making the subjects into targets of abuse or vigilanteeism. I don’t know if that is the intent behind the filming mentioned in the OP, but I’m having trouble thinking of another reason to do it. And yes, that would also include filming police in some situations.

” it doesn’t look like that!”
Curious to know what Heathers background is.
Here is what an 8 week foetus looks like Heather, the link I give at the end of this comment takes you to a perfectly nice picture taken by the renowned photographer Lennart Nilsson of “A Child Is Born”. A book which follows the development of the fetus in utterly from conception to birth, in wonderful colour photos. This isn’t a “pro life” book, and the pictures are excellent quality and non gory.
Oddly, someone else posted these links and they were taken down.
Wonder why that was?
Here’s the fetus at 8 weeks:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/healthpicturegalleries/6255474/A-Child-is-Born-Photographs-of-the-foetus-developing-in-the-womb-by-Lennart-Nilsson.html?image=1
Is Heather prepared to say ” it doesn’t look like that”?
I hope not.

“ears definitely not like that”
Really Heather? How many 8 weeks fetuses have you seen?

@17 Clare

As a friend of Heather’s, I can say that she works in medical publishing – editing and laying out medical journals.

Hence her comment about giving out the address of a pregnancy-focused journal

As such, I’d rate her opinion as considerably more informed than most.

Thanks Gideon.
I guessed that Heather was someone who probably had enough tangential experience to give her the confidence to challenge, but not sufficient actual  experience in, or knowledge of,  fetology to give her pause for thought.
Because I believe Heather is wrong when she says the 8 week foetus ” doesn’t look like that”.

But what I am more interested to know, if Heather should come this way again, is what she thinks the 8 week fetus actually  DOES look like.
That is the question I should like to have asked her had I been in Bedford Square when she came by.

Here is a nice website with some detailed pics of fetal development. 
Whilst not being intimately familiar myself with the fetal models on the video shown here, they looked to me to be probably pretty accurate.
This one shows a fetus of a mere 7 weeks and 4 days.
it is particularly handy because it shows it in relation to an adult finger which will give you an idea of relative size.

http://www.ehd.org/prenatal-images.php?thum_id=351#content

(Oddly, the following comment didn’t post. I am re-submitting it so apologies if they both end up ousting twice.)

Thanks Gideon. I guessed that Heather was someone who probably had enough tangential experience to give her the confidence to challenge, but not sufficient actual  experience in, or knowledge of,  fetology to give her pause for thought.
Because I believe Heather is wrong when she says the 8 week foetus ” doesn’t look like that”.
But what I am more interested to know, if Heather should come this way again, is what she thinks the 8 week fetus actually  DOES look like.
That is the question I should like to have asked her had I been in Bedford Square when she came by.
Here is a nice website with some detailed pics of fetal development. 
Whilst not being intimately familiar myself with the fetal models on the video shown here, they looked to me to be probably pretty accurate.
This one shows a fetus of a mere 7 weeks and 4 days.
it is particularly handy because it shows it in relation to an adult finger which will give you an idea of relative size.
http://www.ehd.org/prenatal-images.php?thum_id=351#content

Thanks Gideon. I guessed that Heather was someone who probably had enough tangential experience to give her the confidence to challenge, but not sufficient actual  experience in, or knowledge of,  fetology to give her pause for thought.
Because I believe Heather is wrong when she says the 8 week foetus ” doesn’t look like that”.
But what I am more interested to know, if Heather should come this way again, is what she thinks the 8 week fetus actually  DOES look like.
That is the question I should like to have asked her had I been in Bedford Square when she came by.
Here is a nice website with some detailed pics of fetal development. 
Whilst not being intimately familiar myself with the fetal models on the video shown here, they looked to me to be probably pretty accurate.
This one shows a fetus of a mere 7 weeks and 4 days.
it is particularly handy because it shows it in relation to an adult finger which will give you an idea of relative size.
http://www.ehd.org/prenatal-images.php?thum_id=351#content

Oh would you look at that. Like bases, three comments appear all together.

And what on earth does she mean when she says ” definitely not transparent and you can’t see the blood through it”?
Oh I do wish I had been there Heather.

Hello all, I am the fiance of the younger man in the video and I am here to set things straight.

First of all, 40 days for life exists to offer help, support, and information to those who are considering abortion, and to offer alternatives to those who CHOOSE to listen. They do not harrass, intrude, or act belligerent or disrespectful. One of the rules is to be civil and fair to anyone who approaches or else the credibility of the cause could be damaged.

What is the “cause”? Let me put it this way. As a student of philosophy, my fiance knows most if not all of the arguments for and against abortion. In his mind, these women are walking into that building and murdering their own children. This is horrific, don’t you think? He wants it to stop. He knows that many women who have gone through with it have trouble coping (http://www.lifenews.com/2009/11/03/int-1371/) and he and those with 40dfl want to provide guidance and support for them. This is done out of LOVE and sympathy.

It is not about politics, it is not about intimidation, it is about doing what is right. Why do these people stand out there and pray, when they could be doing “funner” things? They are making a sacrifice to help save lives. There is nothing wrong with standing in public and praying… it is all about intention, Heather, in reference to the bible verse mentioned. They do not seek to glorify themselves, but to glorify the will of God (namely, to prevent murder). They seek to help the poor woman who may not feel like she has any more options and show her that there is hope.

I hope this settles the issue.

With love in Christ,
Kat

I would like to know what Heather’s response is after seeing Clare’s links? And Gideon’s response interests me as he clearly puts great store in Heather’s expertises as a ” medical publisher”?
Does Heather still feel that an 8 week old fetus “doesn’t look like ” the model provided by the anti abortion protestors?


Reactions: Twitter, blogs
  1. nicky clark

    Anti-abortion preachers in London caught on film (by me) http://t.co/gKldjnBG

  2. MarinaS

    Anti-abortion preachers in London caught on film (by me) http://t.co/gKldjnBG

  3. Fiona Laird

    "pro-lifers" intimidating women going in 2 BPAS RT @sunny_hundal Anti-abortion preachers in Lndn caught on film (by me) http://t.co/Abk3dPaa

  4. Lambeth NUT

    Anti-abortion preachers in London caught on film (by me) http://t.co/gKldjnBG

  5. Paul Trembath

    Anti-abortion preachers in London caught on film (by me) http://t.co/gKldjnBG

  6. Mabel Horrocks

    "pro-lifers" intimidating women going in 2 BPAS RT @sunny_hundal Anti-abortion preachers in Lndn caught on film (by me) http://t.co/Abk3dPaa

  7. Patron Press - #P2

    #UK : Anti-abortion preachers caught on film http://t.co/TmWOmCLJ

  8. Thomas Goodwin, G.G.

    #UK : Anti-abortion preachers caught on film http://t.co/TmWOmCLJ

  9. Jim Martin

    And on it goes. RT @sunny_hundal Anti-abortion preachers in Lndn caught on film (by me) http://t.co/EJl7Hi0O”

  10. Martin

    Anti-abortion preachers in London caught on film (by me) http://t.co/gKldjnBG

  11. Fiona Laird

    @revjean1 -> RT @sunny_hundal: Anti-abortion preachers in London caught on film (by me) http://t.co/Abk3dPaa

  12. apayne

    Anti-abortion preachers in London caught on film (by me) http://t.co/gKldjnBG

  13. Sylvia Milne

    Anti-abortion preachers in London caught on film (by me) http://t.co/gKldjnBG

  14. McGinOxford

    "pro-lifers" intimidating women going in 2 BPAS RT @sunny_hundal Anti-abortion preachers in Lndn caught on film (by me) http://t.co/Abk3dPaa

  15. leftlinks

    Liberal Conspiracy – Anti-abortion preachers caught on film http://t.co/ZjjPbKgG

  16. Clive

    Anti-abortion preachers in London caught on film (by me) http://t.co/gKldjnBG

  17. Kelly Kaye

    Anti-abortion preachers in London caught on film (by me) http://t.co/gKldjnBG

  18. Yasha Jai Lakshmi

    Anti-abortion preachers in London caught on film (by me) http://t.co/gKldjnBG

  19. Mrs Blogs

    Anti-abortion preachers in London caught on film (by me) http://t.co/gKldjnBG

  20. Heather Wallace

    btw, see me get angry at the 40 days for life people's guilt props: http://t.co/rzBVNFRq

  21. Mandy Oldroyd

    btw, see me get angry at the 40 days for life people's guilt props: http://t.co/rzBVNFRq

  22. Maggie

    Anti-abortion preachers caught on film | Liberal Conspiracy http://t.co/eLbFtLBq via @libcon #UK

  23. Gideon Hallett

    @PeterDCXW Thirdly, the box of babies is misinformation, as per my friend's comments in the film at http://t.co/bDbAwaCD – and… @Pauleec

  24. BPCA

    Missed this earlier: Anti-abortion preachers caught on film | Liberal Conspiracy http://t.co/C16qdnfR via @libcon

  25. Kerry J

    Missed this earlier: Anti-abortion preachers caught on film | Liberal Conspiracy http://t.co/C16qdnfR via @libcon

  26. sunny hundal

    Also, a report with pics and video of preachers holding a "vigil" in London outside an abortion clinic http://t.co/gKldjnBG

  27. Eilidh

    Excellent post on @libcon by @sunny_hundal about the anti-choice activists vigils outside BPAS clincs. http://t.co/gPc8pIfs

  28. Rob

    Also, a report with pics and video of preachers holding a "vigil" in London outside an abortion clinic http://t.co/gKldjnBG

  29. Clare

    http://t.co/4qHyn0YC. video camera pans across to clinic entrance at 1.17. Shocker. @sunny_hundal @bengoldacre @40days4lifeUK @riverflows77

  30. Clare

    @sunny_hundal Perhaps Heather Wallace will tell us what the 8 week fetus DOES look like? http://t.co/Ormq53FL

  31. “I asked God: she’s pro choice” | Too Much To Say For Myself

    […] Praying at the shrine of the box of plastic foetuses […]

  32. Prison Planet.com » Homeland Security Targets Anti-Abortion Activists as Domestic Terrorists « CITIZEN.BLOGGER.1984+ GUNNY.G BLOG.EMAIL

    […] Anti-abortion preachers caught on film (liberalconspiracy.org) Share this:ShareEmailLike this:LikeOne blogger likes this post. Tags: Abortion, Charlotte School of Law, Flip Benham, Gunnery Sergeant, Operation Save America, Opposition to the legalization of abortion, Prison Planet.com, United State Comments (0) Trackbacks (0) Leave a comment Trackback […]

  33. sunny hundal

    @jo_m_white Yup, I wasn't harassing BPAS http://t.co/gKl8LNAM





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