Some good points but I dispute that you could categorise ‘liberal left’ as a bloc in the first place. Agreed there is significant agreement on a number of issues (as you have highlighted) but they come from fundamentally different political traditions.

@orangebooker – I am inclined to agree but it was Oborne that was using the sweeping term “liberal left”. I was merely pointing out that if you accept his terminology then his premise is totally flawed.

“Of course in the event the economy was fine and a decent floor was put in to stop people, especially the young being exploited for derisory wages.”

Erm… seen the youth unemployment figures? They suggest that the minimum wage has, as a result of the recession, reached a level compared to average wages that does damage the prospects of the less employable, (i.e. those with less experience). You can claim that this is a price worth paying but I doubt that those adversely effected will thank you.

Please don’t use the word “fisking”. That’s a word invented by right-wing warmongers as an attempt to discredit their critics.

Oborne’s theme is the same one that the Express’ Patrick O’Flynn was riffing on before Christmas, right down to the “Liberal Left” characterisation.

I filleted O’Flynn’s rubbish here:

http://zelo.tv/yrX21r

As has already been said, the term “Liberal Left” can’t be used to define a group anyway.

Some good points but I dispute that you could categorise ‘liberal left’ as a bloc in the first place.

Yes – “the liberal Left” hasn’t even existed for as much as a few decades. Labour, Liberals and the Conservatives bear as much resemblance to their post-war predecessors as I do to Jane Greer. Imagine Churchill meeting Cameron, or Attlee trying to hold a conversation with Ed Miliband. It would be painful.

Thirteen years in power and only two notable achievements come to immediate mind. Hardly a success.

Obourne could counter that New Labour’s adoption of much tory policy proves his thesis.

The problem seems to me that the Liberal Left do not appear on any front benches as much as they should.

The ‘liberal-left’ do not exist. All leftists revert to authoritarian statists pretty quickly in debate.

Oborne’s piece is just the latest in the right’s rather comical re-writing of history post-2008. Up until then, the Blair/Brown recipe was presented as Mrs Thatcher’s finest triumph, conclusive evidence that the right had won the argument on free markets, the unions, criminal justice, immigration, ownership of utilities – the lot.

Once the banks collapsed, the Conservatives changed their story as swiftly as Winston Smith following an outbreak of war with Eastasia. Britain had always been run by socialists. It had been runaway tax and spend, not the escesses of a deregulated financial sector, which caused growth to collapse.

In a way, it’s a tragedy that the Tories did not win in 2005. There was a cigarette paper between Howard’s economic policy and Brown’s and we would have exactly the same outcome. The downturn would have been seen for what it actually is – the third and greatest of the Thatcherite recessions. We could then have had a mature debate, including the more thoughtful parts of the Tory party, about the consequences of 30 years of market-fetishising neoliberal hegemony. Instead, I fear it will take a further, and greater, cataclysm before either Labour or the Conservatives really start to think about a sensible alternative.

“It had been runaway tax and spend, not the escesses [sic] of a deregulated financial sector, which caused growth to collapse.”

Presumably you’ve had your head up your arse the last 3 years.

Oborne’s right on Blair though..

the very fact that oborne calls blairs new labour a “left” wing government,tells you all you need to know about how right wing he is.

@ 4

“Please don’t use the word “fisking”. That’s a word invented by right-wing warmongers as an attempt to discredit their critics.”

I never knew that. I thought it was in honour of his journalistic skills. In any case, it seems to fill a gap in the lexicon.

“Balderdash. At no general election in this period have the Conservative party ever achieved 50% of the vote. In fact with the exception of 1959, the Labour and Liberal (or Lib Dem) plus SDP vote when they were around always totalled more than the Conservative vote. Oborne’s point can only be made to work if you ignore that fact.”

In terms of social attitudes, many (most?) of Labour’s voters are conservative, or at least more conservative than their party leaders are. Just because they vote Labour, that isn’t enough to make them liberal.

Badstephen @ 9:

“Oborne’s piece is just the latest in the right’s rather comical re-writing of history post-2008. Up until then, the Blair/Brown recipe was presented as Mrs Thatcher’s finest triumph, conclusive evidence that the right had won the argument on free markets, the unions, criminal justice, immigration, ownership of utilities – the lot.”

Really? I seem to recall quite a few right-wingers complaining about New Labour, even before 2008.

If by Tory Moment he means the country is in the midst of complete fiscal and societal disarray then yeah, this is a Tory Moment.

@ 4 and @ 12:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fisking

Good piece.
I think the Oborne article has really upset a lot of people actually.
I thought he was one of the few right-wing commentators with a bit of intellectual integrity. But his article in the Telegraph is one of the more dishonest pieces of journalism I have read in the past 12 months. Mehdi Hasan did do a good hatchet job on him, as did the Mambo interestingly : )

http://representingthemambo.wordpress.com/2012/01/05/hang-your-head-in-shame-oborne/

13
“In terms of social attitudes, many, (most?) of Labour’s voters are conservative”.
That’s why Labour lost five million voters from 1997, they were being led by son of Thatcher.

Like the author, I have respect for Oborne, but his article is off the scale barking mad.

In what respect have Cameron’s Tories won any argument? Where is this govt achieving any of it’s stated objectives? Their ideas are failing, irrespective of whatever position a timid, opportunist Labour Party adopt.

If they were right about the economy, why didn’t all those private sector jobs magically fill the gap left by public sector cuts? Why are we borrowing more, and why is Gideon creeping away from Plan A? Moreover, the one country that didn’t champion austerity was the USA. Obama specifically wrote to EU countries warning against cuts, and the US is now creating jobs quite fast, moving in the right direction while Europe goes backwards.

Conservatives seem like they’ve stagnated for 15 years, and are still telling themselves the same myths that destroyed their unity and credibility during the Major era. That society hasn’t changed, becoming more liberal. That the control of money, people and jobs can still plausibly reside with the nation-state, while embracing anarchic global capitalism.

When they talk about mass immigration and the left, anyone would think it hadn’t risen during the previous Tory govt, or that Cameron was somehow bringing it under control. When they talk about welfare, anyone would think incapacity benefit didn’t rise to 2.8M under the Tories watch, that unemployment wasn’t rising fast, or that the crippling cost of housing benefit wasn’t related to decades of social housing shortages. Denial is a painful sight.

Steveb @ 18:

“That’s why Labour lost five million voters from 1997, they were being led by son of Thatcher.”

I’m not sure whether that’s meant to support my post, or whether it’s meant to be a sarcastic way of disagreeing with it. Still, I will point out that Tony Blair never came across as being particularly socially conservative, or indeed as particularly conservative in general.

Paul @ 19:

“If they were right about the economy, why didn’t all those private sector jobs magically fill the gap left by public sector cuts? Why are we borrowing more, and why is Gideon creeping away from Plan A? Moreover, the one country that didn’t champion austerity was the USA. Obama specifically wrote to EU countries warning against cuts, and the US is now creating jobs quite fast, moving in the right direction while Europe goes backwards.”

To be fair, I don’t think many people (or at least many politicians) were predicting a Eurozone crisis on quite this scale when the govt. came in. An event of that magnitude is bound to throw your predictions off a bit, especially when a good percentage of your trade is done with the Continent.

Also, despite all the talk about cuts, overall government expenditure (as opposed to specific departmental budgets) has gone up every month since the last general election (thanks in no small part to the EU bailout funds). The government might not be pursuing a Keynsian economic policy, but they’re hardly a shining example of austerity.

“Conservatives seem like they’ve stagnated for 15 years, and are still telling themselves the same myths that destroyed their unity and credibility during the Major era.”

What really destroyed Major’s credibility was the ERM debacle (somewhat unfairly, since Labour and the Liberal Democrats both supported entry as well). He left the economy in rather good shape when he left office.

“When they talk about mass immigration and the left, anyone would think it hadn’t risen during the previous Tory govt,”

It might have risen, but it never reached the levels it did under New Labour.

@ 8 Ian

“The ‘liberal-left’ do not exist.”

That’s odd. How did I manage to type this post when I don’t exist? Quite the metaphysical quandry! Or perhaps you’re telling great big fibs.

Hi All,
I know its not the write place to post this, but I’ve ust read the funniest, most vicious assault on prime twat James Delingpole here:

James Delingpole is a CUNT

Enjoy!

The Liberal left are not the sum of the Labour Party and the Liberal Party . They are the Liberal party and the Labour elite . Fewer Labour voters are Liberal especially and thed entire constituency is roughly that represented in the AV referendum .
Vastly smaller than the majority who hold such views in establishment institutions like the BBC.

@ 21 XXX

The Eurocrisis would take at best a small part of the blame for UK conditions. Germany has just posted excellent manufacturing figures, and unemployment at its lowest since unification. The OBR downgraded UK growth forecast, while upgrading the Eurozone.

Of course overall spending is going up, just like the 1980s. Because of increased unemployment and falling tax receipts. This was precisely the prediction made by commentators like Sunny and leftish economists Krugman, Stiglitz, Pissarides etc. It is a direct consequence of a flawed strategy driven by ideology rather than evidence or real-world experience.

“He left the economy in rather good shape when he left office.”

Here’s the thing. I’m happy to admit Brown oversold his own economic genius, just as the Tories exaggerate his failings. The wider performance of the UK economy was as much driven by outside events like cheap exports, an internet boom, worldwide low interest rates and then financial crisis, as by either political party.

Yet if New Labour’s legacy was so bad, so was their inheritance. 2.8M people on incapacity benefit, a South-East centric economy dominated by deregulated finance and speculation, crumbling public infrastructure that would inevitably require increased spending sooner or later, low skills base. Even debt repayments were comparable.

Finally re immigration, I think this is another exaggerated dividing line. Virtually every WE govt lost control of their borders after 1990. Lord Baker has admitted since that, post-communism and free movement in Europe, our asylum laws were not fit for purpose. The Tories supported enlargement, with the one nuanced caveat of delaying full entry rights for Romania + Bulgaria for 7 years. So maybe slightly less, delaying the inevitable. I’ll be surprised if we see any significant change under a Tory or any other govt.

10 And Tony blair and Mandleson increased laoburs vote by 5.2 million form the 8.4m laobur got in 1983

The right is winning in every policy area Mr Obone-

Well the Tories don’t have any policies on the environment. Indeed the Husky loving Cameron has been shown to be nothing more than a Clarkson arse licker .
It is typical of the Tories, most of whom study only PPE or exist in some time warp, no to t get what the policy issues facing this country and the rest of the world are.