Have you ever noticed that all racists look the same?

Uhh.. this isn’t a new video, if it was uploaded yesterday it’s a reup.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=bfbgw0BnWHQ
June 05 2009 here.

What a mess.

One hates to be nerdy, but not London to Manchester. Peterborough maybe.

Otherwise, the kind of thing I thought had died out by 1980: this daft idea of having to talk English because you’re in the UK. Doesn’t apply when those same people go abroad, of course.

Is there some sort of reactionary Situationist thing going on?

@ 5 Cherub

I suspect it’s more that someone’s seen My Tram Experience and decided to upload an older video of their own. It’s like the Summer of the Shark thing.

The british have believed their own filth spouted to them about other cultures through their right wing news, jeez the pictures portrayed of foriegners and the fear spread within the population to stump up support for these illegal oil/gas grabbing wars, further backed by a mass uneducated simple “englanders” has caused this. What do you say about a people who care more about their footballers not being able to wear the poppy at a match but say nothign about the number of white people doing nazi salutes on british streets and wearing one, dont forget they also sent a nazi to represent them in europe! british racism is growing and the police are at the forefront, why is it they are not investigating BNP/EDL links to nazi groups and anders breivik!

It’s always interesting to see these things, and I view them like a pet dog thrown morsels and titbits from the table, but I think that to try to make any sense of it you would have to delve into the psychology of it. Things like this have been going on since the Romans came. All over the country there are different communities living together and side by side, but not always in harmony … in the ways that Ann Cryer MP was talking about a decade ago.
Whether he was right or not is open to debate, but even the head of the old CRE said that Britain was sleepwalking to segregation.

Danny @ 7:

“The british have believed their own filth spouted to them about other cultures through their right wing news,”

The fact that videos of racist people are considered so shocking suggests that, on the contrary, most people don’t believe the “filth”.

“What do you say about a people who care more about their footballers not being able to wear the poppy at a match but say nothign about the number of white people doing nazi salutes on british streets and wearing one,”

What percentage of the population do you estimate are going around Nazi saluting in public?

“dont forget they also sent a nazi to represent them in europe!”

Erm, what?

“british racism is growing”

Do you really think that these videos would have attracted such widespread condemnation fifty or sixty years ago?

@ 9 XXX

“Erm, what?”

I think he means that Nick Griffin is an MEP. Which personally doesn’t worry me too much; it doesn’t really reflect on the British population as a whole that a few people elected a BNP member.

The fact that videos of racist people are considered so shocking suggests that, on the contrary, most people don’t believe the “filth”…

Yeah, somehow it’s hard to imagine Nazi-era Germans expressing surprise and outrage at a video of a woman abusing Jews. The reaction would, I’d guess, be like, “Fine work, comrade!”

By the way, has no one noticed that the first tram woman was patently on drugs? If she’d gurned any harder her lips would have flown off and attached themselves to the opposite window. Either that or mentally ill, anyway.

This video is over two years old so hardly demonstrative of some widespread public transport phenomenon. I’m sure there are greater numbers of videos of drunks pissing on buses or lighting their own farts and receivingsimilar responses from the other passangers.

And honestly, a story from The Scum?

When are we going to have videos of the kind of racist comments that go unchallenged in the backs of limos, or in board meetings or among businessmen playing golf, or is it just those who can only afford public transport that are of interest?

@ 11 BenSix

“By the way, has no one noticed that the first tram woman was patently on drugs? If she’d gurned any harder her lips would have flown off and attached themselves to the opposite window. Either that or mentally ill, anyway.”

I did. Either way I actually feel sorry for her: even if it was drugs rather than mental illness, I don’t think any of us would like to have our most embarrassing intoxicated behaviour shown to the nation. Add that to the fact that people are now passing her personal details around online, and the overall conclusion I’m coming to is “great, it’s Cat Bin Lady all over again”.

By the way, has no one noticed that the first tram woman was patently on drugs? If she’d gurned any harder her lips would have flown off and attached themselves to the opposite window. Either that or mentally ill, anyway.

Or drunk, or hypoglycemic, or just pissed off, or stupid, or just inarticulate, or in any number of physical, psychological or emotional states, none of which can be assessed over YouTube, and which are therefore not worth speculating upon.

That’s not a London to Manchester train. That’s one of the First Captial Connect 365s which are used to run services from Kings Cross to Peterborough, Cambridge and Kings Lynn.

Well, if you’re going to make a collection of racist women on trains, you sould add this one to it.

I’ve got a feeling that this sort of thing is taking off among some sections of society.

I hate to say it, but I know from experience that where I live at least, these kind of attitudes are more likely to be both held and expressed by women rather than men.

@ 14 Shatterface

“none of which can be assessed over YouTube, and which are therefore not worth speculating upon.”

Possibly worth bearing in mind while people rush to make her a poster child for bigotry, though.

“By the way, has no one noticed that the first tram woman was patently on drugs?”

I couln’t care less whether she was on drugs, pissed or whatever. Why do people seem to think that this is some sort of mitigating factor?

“I’m sorry I punched him in the face your honour, but I was pissed.”

This crap just doesn’t wash. I couldn’t care less what drugs or alcohol a person consumes, as far as I’m concerned what a person chooses to put in their own body is their own business. If the truth be told, I’ve put plenty of stuff in my own body over the last 30 odd years, but I’ve never hurled abuse at innocent people doing nothing more than going about their own business.

If anything, being out of it should be seen as an aggravating rather than a mitigating factor.

If you can’t handle your drink and drugs, then don’t do ‘em.

Or drunk, or hypoglycemic, or just pissed off, or stupid, or just inarticulate, or in any number of physical, psychological or emotional states, none of which can be assessed over YouTube, and which are therefore not worth speculating upon.

“I don’t generally hurl racial abuse at passers-by, your honour, but if I don’t get that slice of cake at 4 o’clock…”

Wes -

Why do people seem to think that this is some sort of mitigating factor?

I didn’t say it was.

Either way I actually feel sorry for her: even if it was drugs rather than mental illness, I don’t think any of us would like to have our most embarrassing intoxicated behaviour shown to the nation. Add that to the fact that people are now passing her personal details around online, and the overall conclusion I’m coming to is “great, it’s Cat Bin Lady all over again”.

Agreed, it’s horrible.

@ 18

“I couln’t care less whether she was on drugs, pissed or whatever. Why do people seem to think that this is some sort of mitigating factor?”

Because you, intoxicated, is not the same as you, sober. Yes, when people commit crimes due to being drunk or whatever, they have chosen to get into that state, but they haven’t made a sober decision to commit the crime itself, and probably wouldn’t have done so. So it’s more a crime of negligence.

I don’t, on the other hand, think that intoxication should be a defence against conviction, if only because this would give criminals a get-out-of-jail-free card if they had some beers before committing crimes. I think the law has it right here: the fact that you were intoxicated won’t prevent you from being convicted, but it might get you a reduced sentence if the judge is convinced that you were acting out of character as a result.

@ 21 ukliberty

There’s another thing that bothers me about the group that want to see her suffer: judging from the video, her crime (if indeed she’s guilty of anything) is something like abuse. However, the people calling for god knows what to be done to her are quite obviously motivated by her politics. If someone posted a video of a woman shouting “twat!” at passers-by indiscriminately, we wouldn’t be seeing this kind of reaction.

The woman’s behaviour looks like it may be illegal, but her opinions, however unpleasant, are not, although they might legally count as an aggravating factor. I get the strong feeling that people want to see her punished for being a racist and the fact that she may have broken the law is simply a convenient factor.

> quite obviously motivated by her politics. If someone posted a video of a woman shouting “twat!” at passers-by indiscriminately, we wouldn’t be seeing this kind of reaction.

And? There’s nothing hypocritical about finding racial abuse more unpleasant than random cursing. Her political views are utterly hateful, and she expresses them in a seriously unpleasant, illegal, and abusive way.

Which is not to defend those calling her for to be hung drawn and quartered, obviously. But basically I think anger is a perfectly healthy and legitimate reaction to the video.

@ 24 Larry

You’ve cut my sentence in half there. If you look at the whole thing, you’ll see I’m only criticising people who are calling for bad things to happen to her (specifically, people who want to see the book thrown at her under the law, but are actually motivated by political disagreement).

I agree with you about anger being a reasonable response, I reacted the same way. The things she said were appalling.

When are we going to have videos of the kind of racist comments that go unchallenged in the backs of limos, or in board meetings or among businessmen playing golf, or is it just those who can only afford public transport that are of interest?

I’m just re-reading ‘Crisis? What Crisis?’ by Alwyn Turner, and there’s a great story of how the Chairman of British Leyland was forced to resign because Tariq Ali got hold of a video of a speech he gave at a private dinner, where he said that those who accused BL of having a slush fund were “doing no more than exposing the perfectly respectable fact that we were bribing wogs”. He had to resign, though that may also have been because he said that the Trade Unions were bastards.

shatterface

I imagine we will get those videos as soon as somebody records them and post them online. If a video of FTSE CEO spewing racist abuse was to emerge, I can confidently predict you will discover it is not only the racist tirades of public transport users that are of interest.

[I really don't know why you think racist comments are any more common in boardrooms or limousines than anywhere else - anybody know of any study that finds correlations between racism and social status?]

Because you, intoxicated, is not the same as you, sober. Yes, when people commit crimes due to being drunk or whatever, they have chosen to get into that state, but they haven’t made a sober decision to commit the crime itself, and probably wouldn’t have done so. So it’s more a crime of negligence.

Sorry, but I really don’t buy this. My behaviour is different when I’m out of it, BUT…

“Sorry about the drunk driving your honour, but I was drunk”.

As I previously stated, I’ve ingested plenty of substances in my time – probably more than most – but I’ve never just hurled abuse at people at random, and if I did, then, as I was the one who chose to ingest, I am still responsible for my actions. The idea that my own choices should be some kind of mitigation for my actions after I have done so is, frankly, ludicrous.

Or maybe you think that a punch in the face from a drunk is less upsetting to the victim?

@27

[I really don't know why you think racist comments are any more common in boardrooms or limousines than anywhere else - anybody know of any study that finds correlations between racism and social status?]

No… though I’ve seen plenty of trendy middle class types try to make out that it’s nasty working class chavs who are racist, while nice middle class people aren’t, that ain’t my experience.

I’ve found pretty hardcore racist fuckers to be spread pretty evenly throughout the class system myself.

@Chaise

Fair enough. Though I’d probably class myself as one of the “people who are calling for bad things to happen to her” insofar as it seems reasonable she should be charged with with some public disorder offence, with racism as an exacerbaging factor.

That said, I’d settle for a few days community service, rather than demanding her head on a spike…

@ 28 Wes

“Sorry about the drunk driving your honour, but I was drunk”.

Like I said, intoxiciation shouldn’t be a defence. But I could see the logic behind handing a lower sentence to a drunk-driver who had had two bottles of whisky and had very little idea what they were doing when they got in the car, than to someone who had six beers and got in the car in full knowledge that they were breaking the law.

“The idea that my own choices should be some kind of mitigation for my actions after I have done so is, frankly, ludicrous.”

I’ve had experiences with friends whose behaviour has been totally (socially) unacceptable when pissed. I’ve forgiven them far more easily than I woulld have done had they been sober and just acted up for the hell of it. The reason for this is I know they didn’t think “I’ll get drunk and act like an arsehole”, they thought “I’ll get drunk” and the acting-like-an-arsehole bit followed when they weren’t in their right mind.

“Or maybe you think that a punch in the face from a drunk is less upsetting to the victim?”

I think crimes should be judged on the action and the intent behind the action, not the effect of the action, which might not be in the person’s control. Imagine three examples:

1) Ann crashes their car and dies because Bob deliberately throws a heavy object off a bridge onto her windscreen, with the intention of making her crash.

2) Ann crashes her car and dies because Bob carelessly pushes a heavy object off the bridge, and it happens to land on her windscreen.

3) Ann crashes her car and dies because Bob, half a mile away, drops a crisp packet, which eventually blows into Ann’s window and across her face, blocking her vision.

As per your “punch in the face” example, the effect on the victim is identical in each case, but the intent behind Bob’s action is very different. I’d argue that, despite the fact that the scenario is the same for Ann in all three cases, the sentence that Bob receives should differ massively.

@ 30 Larry

Based on the facts as I know them, I’d say the case for charging her along those lines seems reasonable. I don’t have a problem with her facing consequences, my objection is those who are desperate to see her suffer purely because they don’t like her beliefs.

@31. Chaise Guevara

Three very good examples. Bystander at The Magistrates Blog has been arguing the same thing for years, so if people don’t understand it here, don’t be discouraged.

@30. Larry: “Fair enough. Though I’d probably class myself as one of the “people who are calling for bad things to happen to her” insofar as it seems reasonable she should be charged with with some public disorder offence, with racism as an exacerbaging factor.”

Had a police officer observed either of the two outbursts, the response would have been a quiet word or a breach of the peace arrest (assuming that the officer reckoned that arrest would not create more disruption).

Any ex post facto judgement or prosecution has to be equal to what would have happened if a police officer was present. Thus “shut up, or I will arrest you” (which would have happened at the time) becomes “that behaviour was really stupid and I’ll punish you if you repeat it” in the magistrates court.

@ 33 Charlieman

Much obliged!

Chaise @23, the fact is that none of us know what what her state of mind was – there was a rumour she was going through a breakdown at the time, which may or may not be true. Nevertheless, even if she is simply just a nasty piece of work, I find abhorrent this public shaming, which will probably go global if it hasn’t already done so, and metaphorical throwing of stones.

It is like the cat-bin-lady – yes, completely wrong to put the cat in the bin, she shouldn’t have done it, and some kind of punishment (a fine, perhaps) might be appropriate, but global humiliation seems a disproportionate punishment to say the least.

Women.

@ 36 UKliberty

Yes, agreed. And unfortunately (or perhaps not, given the alternatives), it’s not a punishment we can really control. We live in an era when half the population carry video recording equipment on them at all times, and can potentially broadcast the results to millions of people within a matter of hours (if that). It’s all too easy for people to get their three minutes of fame whether they want to or not.

As for the people posting her address (if it’s even her real address) on Youtube; THAT ought to be illegal. It’s malicious behaviour that could cause serious damage and has no saving graces – although I appreciate getting it into a sensible-sounding law might be tricky.

Chaise, agreed.

“I think crimes should be judged on the action and the intent behind the action”

Reasonably so – and this woman looks to me as if she really wants the people she is abusing to feel very bad, and it’s clearly working. She sees the upset she’s causing and it even appears to stimulate her further.

@ 40 birdie

Agreed – I’m just saying that intoxication would be a mitigating factor as far as intent is concerned (because she might never have behaved like that sober).

What bothers me is not the ability to record such incidents, but that some people are prepared to expose indigenous British people, rightly concerned about the alien invasion of their country, to such wider scrutiny and vilification.

Immigrants and foreigners should beware of the time – surely not too far off under our current socio/economic climate – when the indigenous majority turn upon them after such an extension of intimidation and harrassment.

BORING!!

No one dead. No one abused and tortured.

So, er…LIBERAL site that you are (TEE HEE)
Where is THIS story??

“‘Honour’ crimes against women in UK rise 47% in just a year”

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/dec/03/honour-crimes-uk-rising

Well???
Fuck sight more important than one woman ranting on a bus or a footballer daring to join the EDL!!

Liberal? HA!