This was the best thing to come out of the Libdem conference. Well done to you and to Dr Evan Harris for pushing on this.

Does this mean that the liberal democrats will stop terminally ill people from having to go through the stress of ESA, where ATOS say that they are ok to work and by the time they have got to appeal they are dead, with the last years of their lives destroyed by fighting for ESA? Thought this blog had transmigrated from the liberal democrat voice, where a lot of back slapping is going on. Pity the rest of us are just getting slapped by the wholesale voting in of such things as selling off the NHS. You may be jolly with each other now, those lib dems who are left, but you will have to answer to the voters in the end.

I’ll believe it when I see changes to the law. And this is just ONE of many issues where the LibDems are in a government hurting poorer people, so…

Its all very well saying that 50 out of 57 Lib Dem Mps will support this – the question is why they didnt do so to start with? Why didnt they stop the dismemberment of the NHS – again as mandated at a previous Lib Dem conference?

I’m sorry, while I’m pleased you got your motion passed, I’m not sure it will have any effect whatsoever on your leadership.

Patricia – I understand your cynicism. We don’t get much good news in this campaign. But I worked with George on this, he learnt from people affected by ESA changes every day, he listened, he had to fight every step of the way to get this issue debated and then strengthened and then vote4d through.

I wrote the side George is probably WAY too modest and to tell here http://diaryofabenefitscrounger.blogspot.com/2011/09/lib-dems-pass-motion-and-amendment-on.html

In this case, Sunny is absolutely right to indulge in a bit of back slapping. I have never known a back more in need of slapping than George’s!!!

@2 and @3

I’m very sorry this motion doesn’t satisfy your complaints with the entirety of the coalition government – I’m afraid with a full time job to commit to I don’t have the time to tackle every single policy area in one motion at one conference. It’d be nice if you could have held off carping until the end of the weekend though, instead of dismissing out of hand what represents the hard work of several people – some of whom aren’t even Lib Dems.

I don’t expect gratitude for writing the motion – the people who deserve thanks are people like Sue Marsh – but if you really cared about disabled people then instead of sneering you would be celebrating the passing of the motion and asking how you could help contribute to making sure the Lords make the necessary changes to the Welfare Reform Bill. But I suppose that’s too much to ask from you.

Good response GWP

George, you might chose to view it as carping. I view this as noise in a process, where the actual changes need to be made in parliament. There is absolutely nothing to celebrate yet, and in fact I’d say it’s downright dangerous to do so at this stage.

And again, I support and work with an organisation which HAS had considerable success, 38 Degrees. Without being in a political party which is, afaik, complicit in the current devastation of this country.

@Leon

I’m also a member of 38Degrees. If this motion is just noise then what does that make the petitions signed by 38Degrees members via email? 38Degrees isn’t fighting on ESA. I am and now, because of this motion, the Lib Dems will be too. Hide behind your membership of an organisation if you like – but they’re a penny a dozen. Actions speak louder than words and I have yet to see you take any useful action other than make negative comments on Lib Con.

@Sunny

Thanks Btw, who cross posted this on here? I’m very pleased it has been cross posted, I was just curious as to how it happened

I am a left-winger, and I judge people who talk about their party affiliation by the actions of their party. If you don’t like that, well….tough, really.

I’m far more interested in getting Labour to listen to the left-wing vote which will otherwise stay at home than in the LibDems. I’m also bitter and cynical, not least thanks to the government your party is a part of *directly and traceably* costing me at least three jobs since the election.

“I am in a fairly ecstatic mood due to the incredible victory we won yesterday in passing the Employment Support Allowance (ESA) motion along with an amendment to it which strengthened it significantly.”

The fact that people are having to fight tooth and nail to prevent a measure which will see even the most severely disabled people – with no hope of recovery, or of being capable of work – lose their right to benefit after 12 months shows what depths the country has sunk to – and how far to the right sentiment has shifted.

The government had a range of options in deciding who should pay the highest price for the reckless activities of private banks, and have decided on the easiest option – take money from those least able to fight back (and this is a government led by a PM who made political capital out of his ‘understanding’ of the pressures facing families living with a severely disabled member).

@10

Put your money where your mouth is. Either help us get the Lords to stop hundreds of thousands of the most vulnerable from being penalised or don’t. But if you don’t then let us get on with it without criticising us every step of the way.

@12 – I’m certainly not stopping you. I am criticising you seeing this vote as a cause for celebration rather than simply a step in the process. It’s noise, as I said – and I fully expect it to be ignored by MP’s.

Maybe I’ll be pleasantly surprised. But I’m hardly counting on it.

And no, I am not going to help the LibDems. I can, and will, help groups which are independent of the government, but not any party in this government. There are simply too many fundamental differences between my views and those of this government for that.

Charles is right; it should never have got to where we stand with your parties help in the first place.

(NO party has a good record on this from my POV…)

Well done, at least there are some Lib Dems fighting for decency. Shame about the leadership.

Now you just need to make the party leadership and MPs see that they are currently leading the Lib Dems into oblivion by blithely propping up the most brutal, reactionary, incompetent disaster of a government in living memory!

I am a 42 yr old single mum who has MS and I have been so concerned about the recent proposals to the welfare bill..
When I was diagnosed I was working, I had health insurance that refused to pay and was sacked on capability from my job of 10yrs after taking time off due to a relapse. I tried to work in other Jobs but the MS always won. I also found the the constant stress of having to reapply to all entiltled benefits both stressful and soul destroying, resulting in severe depression and a stay in the local mental health unit.
My feeling is that I and many others with life long fluctuating conditions should be looked after without stress and guilt that we are such a burden.
we are not. Many of us would love to work but we need a cushion for the times we cant.. or acceptance that unfortunately some people will always need compassion and support.
I want to spend the rest of my life fighting MS.. not fighting an uncompassionate
and distant government. .
If I know that despite a medical diagnosis I will have to visit Atos or whomever who doesnt know me, to prove I cant work on a regular basis, and if due to cuts I cant get the support and help I need (ie lack of specialist care/long waits to see specialist) I care enough about my worth in this country to sink to suicidal thoughts if i continue to feel like a strain on society.
Please show you care.. thats why I voted.

George – I did liking the smart look!

@ 1, 6 & 7.

Couldn’t agree more. Well done George.

@ 10.

I judge people who talk about their party affiliation by the actions of their party.

I too judge people who talk about their party affiliation by the actions of their party – which is why I judge people who vote Labour to be authoritarian control freaks with a love for big business and champagne lifestyles.

For any Labour supporter to use the above sentence would be amusing – if I had a sick sense of humour.

Conference support is not the same thing as a Government defeat. The Coalition is committed to its war on the poor and the vulnerable. Let’s see how this translates into practice. After all, just last week the LibDems voted for the privatisation of the NHS, and made sure it was off the agenda at the conference.

@17 – Given I never voted for or supported New Labour, and am currently whacking on Labour for chasing fringe Tory votes rather talking to the left, who feel unable to vote for anyone…

You’re just another ConDem. *shrugs*

The problem is that we’ve seen the same thing happen with the NHS reform bill.

After campaigning by the various organisations affected, the Lib Dem grass roots kick off, and after already having voted for it twice and with the local elections looming the leadership jumped on the bandwagon and kicked the NHS reform bill into the long grass for a few months while a faux consultation was carried out.

There were some cosmetic changes made, but only 4 Lib Dem MPs voted against it when it returned to the commons.

A fuss was kicked up, and the conflict between the Tory plans to break up the NHS and hand chunks of it over to private control and the Lib Dem plans to do some similar things but in a nice way led to a compromise of the Tories get their way with minor changes.

I think there’ll be some debate, but the Daily Mail will do a special report called something like ‘Scroungers – how much disabled people cost the taxpayer’ and MPs will line up to vote for it with some minor cosmetic changes to protect the ‘good’ disabled people.

It’s easy for you to say we should lobby the Lords as the Lib Dems have already voted for this and there’s nothing they can do now (except maybe not vote for it when it returns to the commons) but how do we do this? We could write in but MPs and peers generally only send form responses to letters, and we don’t individually have the wealth to bribe anyone to speak on our behalf.

An additional problem is no one is going to believe anything a Lib Dem MP says. The only way to win peoples trust back is to take effective action to prevent damaging legislation being placed on the statute book. Talk is very cheap.

A lot of people are a bit put out that the Lib Dems have abandoned the notion of social democracy, and the Sarah Teather speech is pretty emblematic of the Lib Dems in government. Make progressive noises, do regressive things.

Until action matches rhetoric then people are going to keep on regarding the Lib Dems as a bunch of lying spivs who are helping devastate British society for the benefit of the rich.

@20

The whole point of having a second chamber is that revision and scrutiny can take place there as well as in the Commons. The lords have already expressed reservations about this and it should not be hard to ensure that the necessary changes are made to the bill.

Both Macmillan and the DBC have done and are doing sterling work on putting pressure on the lords and now that Lib Dem party policy has been changed it will be much easier to convince Lib Dem peers.

We have already identified friendly peers and there are plans in the pipeline to have briefing sessions for peers about ESA. The simplest thing you can do is to write to peers who live in your area, or write to your MP illustrating how many people affected by ESA live in his or her constituency and how that contrasts with his or her majority.

@13

Did I ask you to help the Lib Dems? I did not. I asked you to help sick and disabled people by lobbying peers and MPs of all persuasions to make the necessary changes to ESA. I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again: you are so blinkered by your tribalism that you’re cutting your nose off to spite your face.

@22 – Tribalism for who? “No party selected”?

No, I’ll keep supporting effective NON-party mechanisms for change. The TPA and 38 Degrees. If a party wants my support, they’ll have to be on the left. I’m quite willing to give them a pass on many other things (bar energy policy, which is why the Greens are out).

Your tribe, your political party, is my enemy. By their choice, by throwing in with the Tories. You still cannot accept this. I also have, strangely enough, different priorities to you… and this is something else you can’t seem to accept. *I* am primarily concerned with the tens of thousands the ConDem policy will make homeless this parliament, and with the hundreds of thousands socially cleansed.

My MP is a Lib Dem, and unfortunately I voted for him at the last election.

However I know he couldn’t give a stuff about anything other than getting his face on TV. That probably gives away which one he is.

My local Tory/Lib Dem council is doing everything they can to remove services from the disabled.

I’ll fight for the disabled, but I know primarily it will be a fight against the Lib Dems because they are the weaker link in the Coalition.

How many Lib Dem MPs voted for the Welfare Reform bill already. Is it more than 7?

@24

If your MP is who I think it is then we have a plan for dealing with him – namely we’ll show him his notional majority following the boundary changes and then point out how many disabled people in his constituency are being affected by ESA

As for the number that voted for the Welfare Reform Bill, I don’t know. But I do know that back then they were voting for a government bill on an issue on which there was know Lib Dem policy and they did so knowing that the Lords would undoubtedly make their own amendments and send it back to the Commons. Now we have a Lib Dem policy on this and now we will have a huge amount of lobbying of them to make sure they stand up for party policy.

@Leon Wolfson

RE the housing benefit cap:

http://www.politicshome.com/uk/story/20467/

@26 – It’s not primarily the cap which concerns me. It’s lowering HB to 30% (when the measure is already flawed, and it’s more like 25%) and linking it to a non-housing measure of inflation, which quickly means only the *absolutely* lowest rents (and 10% of rented housing in this country is thought to be technically unfit for habitation) matter, and those are certainly NOT in London…by the end of this parliament, only 3% of the capital will remain affordable on HB…

Less than 2 weeks now before it hits.

All this should not be happening because David Cameron said live on television during the Final Televised Electoral Campaign Debate 2010 that a country/government is judged upon how it cares for it’s most vulnerable in society in good times as well as bad times. He then went on to say/promise that if you are Sick, Disabled, Frail, Vulnerable or the POOREST in society you have nothing to FEAR if he (David Cameron) becomes prime-minister because he would protect that group of vulnerable people in society.

Now that David Cameron is prime-minister he has broken that promise and done the complete opposit. That is evidence that he used the most vulnerable in society to appear caring and compassionate to gain votes whilst putting the Sick and Disabled minds at rest. It is also evidence that David Cameron and others had no intention to protect the vulnerable before, during and after the election. That is despicably evil and fraud.

To lie for gain is fraud. In this case fraud was used to gain votes.

David Cameron should be held legally accountable for such lies and forced to reverse the damage done and to make good his election pledge/promise.

To use the most vulnerable in society to appear caring and compassionate and do the complete opposit is morally corrupt and evil, pure and simple.

I sincerely hope that David Cameron chokes on his own lies because I believe like the National Health Service they always had a secret agenda to do the complete opposit to what they promised/pledged during the election campaign.

Cameron and company should hang their heads in shame but sadly they live in a Bubble in another dimension.

I really do hope that the sick, disabled, frail, vulnerable and POOREST in society get protection from these evil politicians and find justice.

Do we really live in a civilized society ?

@28 – No.

Ignoring ECHR judgements, refusing rights for citizens which most of Europe’s signed up to, behaving as a wild card on any number of issues…

A Banking (Banana) Monarchy (Republic) isn’t far off, though.