Not quite got the idea of working outside a “Collective” yet Sunny?

What a nasty man, taking his kids out for the day.

Just accept it OH – he doesn’t care about you lot.

And that exhibition – is that funded by taxpayers too? Probably.

Seriously Sunny? Are you really that petty?

His free school is for the community. Anyone in the local area can apply to it. Are you saying that state schools or academies shouldn’t be taxpayer funded?

And not going to a rally because he’s taking spending time with his kids????

You entire life might be politics and finding ways to verbally attack your ideological enemies, but all this shows that his isn’t.

The anti (3% over 5 years) cuts march wasn’t that important to most people. Bunch of self interest groups getting shouty, causing trouble, hugging each other and asking for yet more of other people’s money. The anti debt march isn’t that important either, and probably won’t have nearly as many people there, because those of us with real jobs have better things to do with our free time.

Which also begs the question – where do you get funding for this site from? Any taxpayer funding, direct or indirect??

Outrageous – a man actually looking after his kids. Aren’t conservatives complete bastards?

Right-wing columnist Toby Young is a big supporter of the Rally Against Debt. He thinks the government needs to cut its debt.

This is odd coming from someone who is relying on the taxpayer and local community groups to support / fund his ‘free school’ in Hammersmith.

Why? If Toby Young reckons that the school he sets up can provide a better education at a lower cost than a traditional state comprehensive, then he’s being entirely consistent. For what it’s worth, here’s the man himself on this very subject.

Incidentally, the point Godwin makes about the West London Free School is a complete non sequitur. The total cost of setting up our school is likely to be less than 50% of the average cost of setting up a new secondary school under the last government, which was between £25-30 million. Given that we need more secondary school places – thanks in part to Labour’s open-door immigration policy – setting up free schools in old buildings will save the taxpayer money. It’s a much more cost effective way of delivering new school places than the system put in place by the previous government.

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/tobyyoung/100082784/the-rally-against-debt/

“Which also begs the question – where do you get funding for this site from? Any taxpayer funding, direct or indirect??”

Of course.

Not only is Liberal Conspiracy lavishly funded by the British taxpayer, but we also have international arrangements with the Portuguese and South African governments so as to ensure that Sunny’s six figure salary and gold plated final salary pension is funded by you and Tim Worstall.

Don,

Couldn’t you seek funding from some socialist despots somewhere, just so we can throw that at you every time we have no decent argument (I’ll leave it to your judgement how often I think that happens…).

As to the original post, I am assuming that Sunny does not have the joy of children, or he would not (hopefully) have written it.

@5, glad to see you’re quoting freely from the loathsome Toby Young.

Maybe I can assist you by quoting a little more from the same piece.

Like the headline: “I’m attending the Rally Against Debt. And that makes me worse than a Nazi, according to the hysterical Left”.

Young then goes on to infer that the Guardian is saying he is “as bad as a Nazi”, and “worse than a paedophile, a rapist, a child-murderer”. Except that all of that he made up. Nobody at the Guardian has called him any of that, nor has any such comparison been made.

Good game this, isn’t it? Showing just how jolly clever he is by reinforcing Olbermann’s Dictum: “The right exists in a perpetual state of victimhood”.

glad to see you’re quoting freely from the loathsome Toby Young

I know, shameful isn’t it given that this piece is all about him.

Young then goes on to infer that the Guardian is saying he is “as bad as a Nazi”, and “worse than a paedophile, a rapist, a child-murderer”. Except that all of that he made up. Nobody at the Guardian has called him any of that, nor has any such comparison been made.

Below the line? These sort of comparisons are made all the time. Even the most cursory of scans of that article shows reference to jackboots, Goebbels and the Nuremburg rally. The bottom half of the internet is a reliably awful place.

Outrageous – a man actually looking after his kids. Aren’t conservatives complete bastards?

Awww, I;m just making fun of his lack of commitment to the cause Ed. No need to be so po-faced is there? Thought you right-wingers did humour?

Which also begs the question – where do you get funding for this site from? Any taxpayer funding, direct or indirect??

Obviously its from the British taxpayers, which then goes via an offshore tax haven so I don’t pay any tax on it either.

@9, “below the line”?

The Guardian did not call Young any of the attributes he says that they did. That he has to resort to such invention merely reinforces his deliberate victim playing.

“The right exists in a perpetual state of victimhood” is as true in the UK as it is in the USA.

Are you saying that state schools or academies shouldn’t be taxpayer funded?

Jeebus – you’d think anyone with half a brain can figure out the implication here.

If you want govt spending, why are you encouraging more govt spending by people like Toby Young?

As to the original post, I am assuming that Sunny does not have the joy of children, or he would not (hopefully) have written it.

On reflection, if Sunny has children, he does a heroic job in also running a blog – they eat time as if it were chocoalte do the little blighters…

Sunny,

If you want govt spending, why are you encouraging more govt spending by people like Toby Young?

That’s an easy one. Because he wants to spend as little as possible to get the best results, rather than just throw money at it and hope it works.

I’m sure you can see the virtue in the first approach as opposed to the second?

The Guardian did not call Young any of the attributes he says that they did.

Sheesh. He doesn’t say that they did: try reading the paragraph that you’re quoting from:

The Guardian slapped my picture on the front page of its website on Monday and ran a piece about the rally, identifying me as the leading figure in Britain’s burgeoning Tea Party movement. As far as the paper’s army of Left-wing commentators were concerned, this was tantamount to outing me as a Nazi. Worse than a Nazi, in fact. Worse than a paedophile, a rapist, a child-murderer … you name it. No one is worse than me because I’m now “the worst man in Britain” according to numerous commentators and not a few Twitterers.

Get it now?

Because he wants to spend as little as possible to get the best results, rather than just throw money at it and hope it works.

Rly? and what’s Young’s expertise in running schools or managing one?

Sunny,

Unlike Mr Young, I do have expertise in managing schools. So my main recommendaton would be don’t get anyone with any experience of the current system, because we are all horribly compromised by it – whatever our intentions or political persuasions.

The point being that unless you want a caste-based system such as the Late-Roman Empire whereby everyone has to stick to one field (and preferably that they are taught at a young age), then perhaps the best thing to do is to try and let people from outside the reservation come in and look at things anew. And rather than paying expensive consultants (wierdly popular over the last decade or two – and to be fair effective when used properly), whose effectiveness is questionable (I never saw one mucking in at sports day or dealing with difficult parents), at least the outside expertise is involved, is free or at least salaried (if occupying a role such as bursar/business manager) and has to answer for their actions.

I suppose the question really is, would you object to a free school set up along idealised socialist lines? Because there is clearly a space for such – and there would be some very good teachers who would love to teach in one (and the quality of a teacher is far more important than ideology in a child’s education – some of my best teachers were openly socialist (and they taught me to argue politics – see, everythings the left’s fault…)).

A day with pirates? Ah, so he’s going to join UK Uncut…

#neoliberaljokes

I just realised – UK Uncut sounds like an anti-devolution movement…

@15, it is you who should be re-reading, not me.

Commentators =/= Commenters.

This is the same lame approach as was used by Bill O’Reilly on Fox News when he tried to smear the HuffPo as “Nazis” because someone *commenting* on a piece said something nasty about Nancy Reagan.

I don’t try and define Toby Young, James Delingpole, or any other Telegraph bloggers by their *commenters* – it would be daft so to do. Because someone manages to slip something under the moderators’ radar doesn’t mean the Guardian, Telegraph or whichever paper – or any of its *commentators* – takes that view or sympathises with it.

Sheesh, indeed.

I think this piece is a bit trivial but, still, it’s amusing that someone who recommends James Delingpole is bitching about nazi comparisons.

“In a blog-post today he says he may have to, “try and squeeze it in” – because so many people are anxious about his presence. There’s a joke in here somewhere.”

Some people are so concerned about his presence that they’ve written a whole blog post about it!

8o

The point being that unless you want a caste-based system such as the Late-Roman Empire whereby everyone has to stick to one fiel

This right-wingers call this specialisation. I would call it leaving people with expertise to run things they have experience with. Otherwise, would you be ok with ‘doctors’ with no medical experience whatsoever getting support by the govt to carry out work?

Even then, the point is that this is ideologically compromised as the welfare claiming Ayn Rand crying aboout big government.

At the end of the day, all the big ideologues who complain about the over-bearing state live off it: the big corporates and their subsidies, the Tea Party movement and its backers, the likes of Toby Young etc

@ 17 Watchman

“The point being that unless you want a caste-based system such as the Late-Roman Empire whereby everyone has to stick to one field (and preferably that they are taught at a young age), then perhaps the best thing to do is to try and let people from outside the reservation come in and look at things anew.”

OK, but presumably you want them to have some kind of experience so they’re not just operating on random guesses, given that any fuck-ups will harm the education of the kids in the school?

I’ve no idea whether or not that applies to Young, but I’m not comfortable with randomers running schools just because they reckon they’d be good at it (or, just as likely, because they want to force as much of their ideology as possible into the curriculum).

Basically, over-experience might lead to stagnation, but total lack of experience could be actively harmful.

@ Sunny

Did you write this post because, when Young mentioned the hysterical left, you were concerned he wasn’ t thinking of you?

That somebody else had been even more hysterical?

Actually, I’m less concerned that he’s not going than that YOU ARE, especially when your acolytes post comments like “get the black bloc in to mash em”.

If you try to infiltrate the other side’s rally, you will be responsible for any trouble that ensues.

Just saying.

I think this piece is a bit trivial but, still, it’s amusing that someone who recommends James Delingpole is bitching about nazi comparisons.

Toby Young lacks self-awareness? You don’t say!?

“I would call it leaving people with expertise to run things they have experience with.”

Maybe I missed something, but shouldn’t this be the choice of the parent? My kids come home spouting ideological lefty nonsense which I’d prefer they didn’t (called PSHE, apparently). It has no place in schools, it is education which should be provided by parents. If there was a school which taught kids real education and ditched the brainwashing, I’d be happy to pay my taxes to fund it. As things stand, I object strongly to my money being taken by the state to fill their minds with nonsense.

Fix that and you can fire rockets at West as much as you like, but you won’t want to, for obvious reasons.

@ Greg

Where are you getting the assumption that the parents are the best people to provide an education?

If your children are being taught biased crap in school, I sympathise, and I’ve got a lot of time for the idea that we should make school as unbiased as possible. But surely an ideal school, from the POV of most parents, would just mean the children learning the same biased stuff they learn at home.

Calling Poe’s Law on @27.

Wasn’t Young claiming to have stopped being a cunt?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/education/2011/apr/05/toby-young-london-free-school

I’m not talking directly about this march, I’m just saying he clearly hasn’t stopped trolling at all. Evidently the attention-seeking was just too addictive.

@ Chaise

Where are you getting the assumption that the parents are the best people to provide an education?

Parents are responsible for the education of their children.

It is certainly no business of the state to brainwash them in schools which the parents have had no choice in selecting. Giving parents some choice in the type of state school in which their kids are educated is a good thing.

Unless, of course, you are a political fundamentalist or religious zealot and you want more converts.

toby young, once a prick always a prick. to paraphrase one of his idols – dont give this man the oxygen of publicity

@pagar, no.25

“If you try to infiltrate the other side’s rally, you will be responsible for any trouble that ensues.

Just saying.”

As far as I can see they’re not picking sides. Its a rally against debt, no official mention of being pro cuts. Theres nothing to suggest that coming with a banner saying “cut the deficit: tax the rich and axe free schools” would be against the aims of the rally.

I’m not going to do this though, I’m going to sit at home with a calculator, working out what percentage of people didn’t go on the march like all the sad bastards on the 26th.

Does politics make people stupid or do stupid people tend to get attracted to politics? I really can’t work it out.

To all those people saying Young’s school will cost 50% of the average new secondary to set up – wasn’t he saying in the Guardian article that his school is going to be really small and that’s why he wouldn’t offer (expensive) subjects like Design and Technology? I genuinely don’t know if his school will be value for money, but I think there might be some slippery stuff going on here.

@ 31 Pagar

“Parents are responsible for the education of their children.

It is certainly no business of the state to brainwash them in schools which the parents have had no choice in selecting. Giving parents some choice in the type of state school in which their kids are educated is a good thing.

Unless, of course, you are a political fundamentalist or religious zealot and you want more converts.”

Total false dichotomy. What if I wanted to ensure that all schools were as secular and as politically neutral as possible to help prevent the children of political fundamentalists and religious zealots being brainwashed in special schools chosen by their parents? Why would allowing these parents to send their kids to brainwashing centres be a good thing – or, if that’s not what you’re saying, what limits should we put on the dogma that schools can and cannot teach?

@ Chaise

What if I wanted to ensure that all schools were as secular and as politically neutral as possible to help prevent the children of political fundamentalists and religious zealots being brainwashed in special schools chosen by their parents? Why would allowing these parents to send their kids to brainwashing centres be a good thing

Not saying that would be a good thing.

But it would be preferable to compelling them to send their kids to a school teaching a curriculum dictated by the state, particularly if that includes a political or religious dogma with which they disagree.

@ 37 Pagar

“But it would be preferable to compelling them to send their kids to a school teaching a curriculum dictated by the state, particularly if that includes a political or religious dogma with which they disagree.”

If the state curriculum was teaching dogma, I’d say they were as bad as each other. I’m not sure why dogma would become less harmful just because your parents agreed with it.

If the state curriculum was NOT teaching dogma, you now seem to be saying that brainwashing is better than not brainwashing. Seems inconsistent.

Three questions:

1) Why is state-supported dogma worse than parent-supported dogma?

2) Why is state-supported neutrality worse than parent-supported dogma?

3) Why would a parent be better at determining a curriculum that professional experts in education?