This is a particularly depressing state of affairs. Already there was a concern with UKUncut that the idea of direct action was being abused to create a new form of symbolic protest (i.e. sitting on the pavement outside shops), rather than actually attempting to disrupt capital, but this article signals the completion of this process.

Surely the response to a state that attempts to criminalise you for things you believe to be the right thing to do should not be a fast capitulation. Rather you must question the criminalisation, and continue with your direct action. Make the point that they cannot so easily dominate your life in protest.

I do understand that many people fear arrest, and of course that should be taken seriously, but we should spend our time arguing against occupations being criminalised, and against punishments being so severe, rather than just refraining from any action that may cause trouble or disruption. There’s a difference between an action being fluffy, and it being light as a feather.

I take the complete opposite view to the poster @1.
I think that what they did there in east London is the way to go. No need for all the edgy drama. If you’ve got a point to make, go out and make it. If you hang out in Canary Wharf for a while amongst the lunchtime workers, being civil and actually talking to people might be more productive than getting into tussles with the police and security guards.
Being less shouty is better IMO.

Liam had only printed out 15 copies of his song – far too little for the 40 people who attended

I can see the barons of the financial sector trembling in their towers.

So just as a tactic proves effective in garnering media attention it is dropped, and eveyone reverts to type with street marches and speeches? Come. On. I agree with poster 1, this is depressing as hell.

“tax avoiders and luxury grocers Fortnum and Mason” and charity. Are you still not admitting that F&M was a poor choice of target?

I was on the action and disappointed we couldn’t occupy any of the buildings due to major security presence. It was simply a reaction to realities of canary wharf private estate, nothing more. May the occupations continue and escalate.

40 of you only?

I’d be careful about hanging around canary wharf having a go at those wicked capitalists though….they’re not all soft oxbridge types. There are still a lot of east end barrow boys still around who would love nothing more than a boozy lunch topped off with giving some soap dodgers a good hiding.

“expressed our solidarity with USUncut outside the Bank of America who paid $0 in tax last year”

I’m sorry, you’re protesting that a company that didn’t make a profit didn’t pay tax on the profit it didn’t make?

What?

I’m not convinced that the different tactics being used by UKUncut groups around the country need interfere with one aother. Even in London we’ve seen significantly different styles of occupation in the past and these have goten along happily. The same, I’m sure, would apply to groups that choose to adopt a similar style of protest to yesterday’s HamletsUncut. The media may have not been interested because someone didn’t get arrested or CS sprayed (I believe that’s the only time we’ve had much attention from them), but does everything we do need media attention?

It has to be said though, I’m not sure impacting on company profits was ever an overt motive of UKUncut. Actions that I have been on didn’t tend to want the shops/banks to shut, but rather promote the tax avoidance issue to otherwise oblivous customers. It was a happy sideeffect that that they probably lost out on a significant amount of cash, but whether it was a key aim of the action I am not sure.

This all comes back to the fact that UKUncut is a highly decentralised group of people that only facilitate actions. There need not be total unity on the methods used if the message is still the same.

@6 J

Would we have wanted to occupy? I’m not sure it was conducive to the style of the protest. We would have gone in and held our tour up trying to get in and out of the buildings. I must say, there was a small part of me that missed occupying – but I think it would have detracted from what we had.

@8 Tim Worstall

Why did they make no profit last year? Because a lot of the money they make is invested into subsiduries before it can even get back into the US and therefore isn’t subject to federal tax. Of course tax avoiders would happily make it look as though they don’t need to pay tax, but then you dig deeper and you see why they don’t.

Not sure why this has to be an either/or decision tbh – surely UKuncut can adapt tactics to suit the mood/environment depending on what is deemded necessary? An organic movement like UKuncut shouldn’t have one single tactic dictated from on high anyway – its virtue is the pluralism of its loose membership.

Agree with S Pill. I’d also like to know what people expect to achieve by telling their fellow protesters that their protests aren’t good enough. Gonna beat the coalition that way? Or just make some new friends?

“Because a lot of the money they make is invested into subsiduries before it can even get back into the US and therefore isn’t subject to federal tax.”

I’m aware of that argument: that only foreign profits actually brought into hte US pay US corporate income tax.

But this doesn’t actually apply here. Not to BoA. They really did make a loss in the last two years. So therefore no tax on the profit they didn’t make.

Rich powerful Tory bully boys: game, set and ______ ?

Only profits brought into the US pay US corp tax. It’s a really dumb law which means a lot of companies leave money offshore….which means when the parent in the US loses money it ends up paying no tax.

BoA *did* pay taxes outside the US.

Problem is Wail, you seem to feel positively about a form of protest- wandering around shouting stuff – that has never worked. For anything. The ‘ moral’ force it supposedly brings to bear does not exist. Hence direct action, which has some effect even if it can’t deliver the killing blow to this government. I would rather have missed liam.s informative words and hurt those who are hurting us .

@15 J

I wouldn’t say that it doesn’t work, but that it plays its part in a movement. Martin Luther King may have said that a “riot is the voice of the unheard”, but there was plenty of wandering around and shouting during that movement too.

Everyone who is interested has a part to play in a movement and only together can we win. You might have been okay with missing Liam’s information, but I’m not sure it was totally intended for us. Who it really rings true with are the passers by. I’m not sure yesterday’s location was the most apt for this, but moving that kind of model to Oxfod Street would hopefully engage with the public.

So just as a tactic proves effective in garnering media attention it is dropped, and eveyone reverts to type with street marches and speeches? Come. On. I agree with poster 1, this is depressing as hell.

It should be pointed out that media attention which universally admits you targetted a charity, shows members being arrested in association with pictures of people (not necessarily UK Uncut members, but since you don’t wear uniforms (I would advise against it…) difficult to tell) committing acts of vandalism and distracts from a peaceful and popular protest might actually be seen as counter-productive.

What does it benefit you if it inspires 1 000 new activists if it turns 1 000 000 off your cause?

@2 sums my thoughts up exactly.

Wisconsin didnt get become such a massive movement due to store occupations. It became so huge (and still is) because it united workers and the public together at a common level.

UK uncut will never achieve the same here going after tax avoiders. I know this isnt popular with a number of uncutters who think I simply hate them and their beleifs.

But the working parents who’ve lost their working credits as of today, the family who’ve seen their elderly loved ones have their care home, home support and day centres closed etc etc will never relate or care about Vodafone etc.

They DO however want a way, a vehicle, to make their voices heard and tell government enough is enough. We wont let you do this to us, mess with our education, our health, the services we DEPEND on to get by.

THERE IS NO SUCH VEHICLE.

@1. Depressed: “I do understand that many people fear arrest…”

I fear the abstract idea of arrest.

I fear arrest. It may be irrational but it is a fear. And I live a contrary lifestyle that may make me more vulnerable.

In a civilised country with labour protection laws, I am still wary about my employers. Twice I have been acknowledged as the shit stirrer, correctly. I was the first person to walk out in past disputes. I may walk out in future disputes.

Supported UKUncut at first but i have become disillusioned with them and they are becoming increasingly irrelevant. They are convinced that this tiny rebellion will bring about a change but, as a business student, i am seeing more and more that big business always wins and the Uncut movement is insignificant in the grand scheme of things. Sure they’ll get some media coverage but they won’t change anything, not with this Govt. anyway.