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What is most shocking is that the woman was arrested for ‘criminal damage’.
She posted paper leaflets through an opening in a the shop doors.
No damage to the glass or metal frame, plenty of gap to push them under.

If it goes to court, will the jury be shown evidence of what the door actually looked like, and the fact that within a short time of the arrest film shows no physical damage to the door ?

Officer Cw2440 could not have been under threat the video clearly shows he runs in, left to right, discharges the spray and exits quickly.

simon,

Officer Cw2440 could not have been under threat the video clearly shows he runs in, left to right, discharges the spray and exits quickly.

He can use ‘reasonable force’ for the purposes of the defence of others, the prevention of crime, and lawful arrest – no-one is limited to only using force in self-defence.

That said, this does look pretty bad.

What is this, a Monty Python sketch?

First a woman is arrested for the heinous crime of posting a letter through a door.

And then a policeman rushes in from stage left, CS sprays himself in the face, and then sprints off back where he came from.

…surreal.

Well what can u say to this, first off anyone who knows anything about automatic doors knows. The door in question is a automatic door as u can see by the picture posted on the day, doors like that open or shut some even open halfway but NONE leave what looked like a 1 inch maybe more gap. This door in the pic had been pulled open a jar this don’t happen unless someone forces it open. As soon as someone trys to open a shut door using force its classed as criminal damage. Do ukuncut not get the picture they are hypocrits costing the country more TAX PAYERS money with these protests, ie more police/security means us as workers foot that bill. Let’s just hope someone wakes up and smells the coffee on this, also u go on about how these buisnesses owe u something well no they don’t this country is changing into a bunch of crying old women. I don’t hear u moaning about the people that work here from other countrys that get a percentage of there tax back a year or how they get meal vouchers and more help from our own government that any british person. We can cry and moan about everything we wanted to but the fact is we have been put into this position by previous governments and now as this government has to tighten the reins (now we look for scape goats) it makes me laugh reading some of the posts on the ukuncut various sites about how they close a store etc but do u honestly think these top dogs are bothered about 1 days takings here and there lol I think not. An as for the Lewes boots pharmacy blockade well shows how much hasn’t gone into the thinking process, believe me if that was in my area and I needed meds for my kids I would have removed them myself, ukuncut say its against the owners of these buisnesses but they arnt affected by it just the normal people who want to get on with there own thing. Well let’s see how many hipocrites there are in ukuncut wearing topman gear bhs bedding boots aftershave etc all a bunch of fakers if u had true beliefs about this there are plenty of other places to shop but that won’t happen, so final note most protesters look like they from college ha most doin courses etc they won’t use or need just to fill up there timetable and the rest for those who work lmao u just help council tax etc go up by having security measures etc increased for protests and who pays for that the common man. The end lmao

Thanks for your time

This is just my perception of the things that are happening atm and well why should I pay for fools to cry about stuff they cannot control kinda looking like were trying to go back to the 60′s well all I say is goodluck with that.

Bubba

Wonder how long it will be before the officer charges the person sprayed – which led to him being affected for assaulting a police officer?

Pepper spray update: the law is just for plebs

[deleted, because its a response to a deleted comment]

Have people listened to the youtube 30 second comment about the gassing if not search it as I did using (boots oxford st gassing) a 30 clip audio only came up top one for me. On it the male says the female was pulling back the door rubber to post her flyer if that be the case then it is criminal damage even tho it seems trivial its still criminal damage and as I have mentioned when people have posted on various sites about so called peaceful protests (not many are peaceful and as wee all know protesters don’t respond to being asked to move on same when police do it there are a few people in all protests that goad/make matters worse in the hope of more backing from others. It is sad that this happened but from various reports and comments from a lot of people its clear that there was friction and that action was taken over a criminal damage accusation, on the other side of the coin everyone knows no matter what action the police/security take this will be percieved wrong no matter how they act/react. People know this and a few try to instagate issues/confortation so others who don’t know the full circumstances jump up in disgust to get on the band wagon as u can see on the twitter page of ukuncut. I wonder if roles were reversed and we owned these companies thta u guys protest about, were would u put ur money(many will talk rubbish at this point) the truth of the matter is if it was my company I would honestly possably do the same, does that make me a bad person course not but judging by most peoples comments (who I might add probably don’t even fully understand what there protesting about or the background of it) The fact of life is this appears to be the in thing to jump on band wagon I’m just wondering what the next thing will be. It really is sad that the majority of british people moan/cry/whine about stuff all the time and come on who really thinks things are gonna change in this situation????? I personally don’t.

Thanks again for your time

Bubba

@10 Bubba I will ignore the rest of your comment as it is annoying to say the least.

…everyone knows no matter what action the police/security take this will be percieved wrong no matter how they act/react.

That isn’t the case actually and it certianly wasn’t on Sunday. For most of the day the police were very helpful and some demonstrators even struck up conversation with them regarding the issue. Though they can’t officially comment on the issue, it was clear that even their sympathies leant towards us.

I was quite pleased with the policing effort on the day until the CS spray incident. They were very much hands off and happy to facilitate a peaceful protest.

It was not only the demonstrators or the pubhlic that were shocked when officer CW2440 used his weapon, but a number of the other officers around him. One instantly told him to put the spray away and others came up to demonstrators afterwards to tell them who the officer was and how to make a complaint.

Smart policing doesn’t make for a negative perception of the police. Irresponsible policing does.

That is a violent assault in anybody’s book. The guy should be prosecuted. He certainly should not be in the police force.

They were demonstrating to demand the payment of more tax. This is just two bunches of thoroughly repulsive stooges of the state system getting stroppy with each other.

>>simon: “Officer Cw2440 could not have been under threat the video clearly shows he runs in, left to right, discharges the spray and exits quickly.”

>ukliberty: “He can use ‘reasonable force’ for the purposes of the defence of others, the prevention of crime, and lawful arrest – no-one is limited to only using force in self-defence.”

I believe that you’re confusing two different things: when reasonable force can be used and when CS spray can be used. From one of the Guardian articles:

Three people were taken to hospital to be treated for injuries caused by the use of the spray, which Association of Chief Police Officers (Acpo) guidelines say is “one of a number of tactical options available to an officer who is faced with violence or the threat of violence”.

The fact that he may have been trying to assist in arresting someone doesn’t mean in itself that he had the right to use CS spray.

Hello again,

On viewing certain press releases and other videos of the incident when the female officers arrested the female the croud changed from peacefull to trying to hinder the arrest, Yes the officer didnt really need to use the gas but who knows what was goin through his mind, maybe he thought it would diffuse the situation who knows only he can answer that question but what is clear is that this hindering of the arrest however small has sparked the officers action to use his spray. we know this from other so called peacful protests that have happened in the past that one minute its peaceful the next its chaos and things change very quickly into chaos therefore placing everyone in the firing line including police.

I think after viewing the footage i wonder would the bobby have stepped in and use his gas had the other (peacefull) protesters not interviened in the arrest.
You have to remember in any sort of force there is a brotherhood between them likewise in the armed forces, defend each other and protect/cover each others backs. sometimes people do rash things they later regret.

@ Wail Qasim lolz ignoring someones outlook on the event only shows a closed mind and not interested in any view point other than your own, thats fine we all become to expect that from people this day and age, an when u look at the footage from various places u can clearly see the doors are shut and yet the rubber at the bottom had been bent out of shape = Criminal damage,

on the outlook of this the female probably wasnt even charged from this due to the events that lead as the arrest took place.

If it was your property you would have a different outlook and when u say ill ignore the rest of it why is that its only a question and i think deep down we all know if we were in the owners of the companys that are protested against i think i am correct when i say you wouldnt even live in this country and thats the difference we moan etc when we are not in the position they are in and refuse to put a answer to the simplest of questions.

Its a well known sad fact that most things in life revolve around money and some people strive most there lives to make money (for familys future and better way of life) and who can condem them for doing so.

thanks for your time

Bubba

@Bubba I said I wouldn’t reply because your point of view was annoying. If I was ignoring your view point because I didn’t think it was worth consideration, I would have said it was stupid. I didn’t have the time nor the will to reply to the entirety of your post at the time…

…on the outlook of this the female probably wasnt even charged from this due to the events that lead as the arrest took place.

She has been bailed pending investigation I believe. Perhaps the police need to figure out whether a bent piece of rubber that could easily be put back into place constitues criminal dmamge. Is dislodging something actually damage?

If it was your property you would have a different outlook…

Well a fellow demonstrator accidently stepped on the heel of my boat ripping it from the upper… It was an accident, caused more damamge than the leaflets and will cost me more to fix/replace than Boots’ rubber seal… I will not be reporting him for criminal damage!

…i think deep down we all know if we were in the owners of the companys that are protested against i think i am correct when i say you wouldnt even live in this country and thats the difference we moan etc when we are not in the position they are in and refuse to put a answer to the simplest of questions.

Well its both the owners that take advantage of loopholes in the law and the law makers who allow these loopholes we are protested against. But I disagree with you that if I was a owner of a large business I would move to another country, if I did, it certainly wouldn’t be to avoid paying taxes that go towards helping the people that shop in my stores. (Alas, I doubt I will ever own a large business!)

lolz,
here is a link for what criminal damage is http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criminal_damage_in_English_law

The side of sundays criminal damage is purely cost u obviously didnt think it through well in your last post ill show u how u should have thought about it.

1) The phone call made to the maintanence dept = Cost
2) The time used by the member of staff = Cost
3)Have u ever tried to fix that type of rubber obvioulsy not lolz it dont go bk as it originally was in effect not creating the desired seal as it once did.
4)Then they have to pay contractors to come out check damage and with contractors the way they are this day and age a new one would be ordered which takes however long and costs stupid money then they come back to fit it generally everything revolving around = Cost

When it comes down to a protest its the protesters decision to move/force/open things and well if u do that then u deserve arresting full stop,
Back to my previous post about ur own personal house would u let someone just push ur double glazing rubber or door rubber to the extent its not operating correctly ??????? im sure you would phone police etc so feel free to explain what the difference is here?? Because the owner supposedly dodges taxes (which i may add is the government job to chase not the comman men and women)

“Well its both the owners that take advantage of loopholes in the law and the law makers who allow these loopholes we are protested against. But I disagree with you that if I was a owner of a large business I would move to another country, if I did, it certainly wouldn’t be to avoid paying taxes that go towards helping the people that shop in my stores”

this made me chuckle i go back to my very 1st post here and all i will say is u cannot answer honestly.

Lets look at Boots which is a worldwide company were would u suggest they bank when they not resident in the uk???????

if u had there money and didnt live in the uk would u bank there i personally dont think so and all this transpires to in my opinion is petty jealousy.

Im not rich or well off and yet i dont care what they do with there OWN money, just like you shouldnt care but some do and thats really bad, In most of the footage ive seen of ukuncut there mostly students and i bet most dont even understand what is goin on they just jump onto the band wagon.

(Hyperthetical)
I wonder if these stores banned the protesters what would they do???? Boots/BHS/Topman etc all employ students throughout the year and yet students protest on one hand then ask for job in the other weird that isnt it 2 faced morality which seems to be current in half at least of ukuncut, so basically all that this is is attention seeking as most still shop in these stores lining the so called tax dodgers pockets still whilst crying about it at the protests which makes me laugh so loud at all the hipocrits.

Like i said in one of my above posts to many people crying over spilt milk that wont change so u have to ask yourself why waste your time trying.

If you look at the twitter page of ukuncut you will see shouting for 1 mil protesters for london 26th march then all of a sudden a reality check kicks in and they know 1mil is pipe dreaming so they change it lolz u cant even set realistic targets.

Well i look forward to reading any more posts

Thanks again for your time

Bubba

Matt,

I believe that you’re confusing two different things: when reasonable force can be used and when CS spray can be used. From one of the Guardian articles:

Three people were taken to hospital to be treated for injuries caused by the use of the spray, which Association of Chief Police Officers (Acpo) guidelines say is “one of a number of tactical options available to an officer who is faced with violence or the threat of violence”.

The fact that he may have been trying to assist in arresting someone doesn’t mean in itself that he had the right to use CS spray.

Matt, ‘use of CS spray’ is a ‘use of force’ and is subject to the same law as if the officer used his hands or baton.

1) The phone call made to the maintanence dept = Cost

I’d have happily dontated my phone… except I’m sure maintenance wouldn’t have even been needed.

2) The time used by the member of staff = Cost

They were all standing around doing nothing as they decided to shut the store. Those staff were being paid to do nothing at that precise moment. Perhaps getting them to actually do something was a good thing for Boots!

4)Then they have to pay contractors to come out check damage and with contractors the way they are this day and age a new one would be ordered which takes however long and costs stupid money then they come back to fit it generally everything revolving around = Cost

If they wanted to… yet I doubt it actually needed as much attention as you make out. The door was functionaling perfectly well even after the event. What’s your expertise in this area? I won’t go into the point of them having £83 million worth of avoided tax to play with. It is slightly different to someone causing damage to my house as I probably couldn’t afford to fix it (if it really is as big a problem as you make it out to be) whereas companies such as Boots have budgets for this type of thing.

When it comes down to a protest its the protesters decision to move/force/open things and well if u do that then u deserve arresting full stop,
Back to my previous post about ur own personal house would u let someone just push ur double glazing rubber or door rubber to the extent its not operating correctly ??????? im sure you would phone police etc so feel free to explain what the difference is here?? Because the owner supposedly dodges taxes (which i may add is the government job to chase not the comman men and women)

Where to start…

You miss the important issue of ‘intent’. That is a big part of the law in question after all. Seeing as you citied Wikipedia, could I perhaps direct you back there for this particular section:

Intent and recklessness

The mens rea of all offences in the Act is direct or oblique intention, or subjective recklessness as defined by the House of Lords in R v. G (2003).[33] Bingham L.J. stated that a person acts “recklessly” with respect to

(i) a circumstance when he is aware of a risk that it exists or will exist; or
(ii) a result when he is aware of a risk that it will occur;

and it is, in the circumstances known to him, unreasonable to take the risk.[34] In Booth v. Crown Prosecution Service (2006)[35] the Divisional Court upheld the defendant pedestrian’s conviction on a charge that, by rashly dashing into the road, he recklessly damaged the vehicle that hit him because “the appellant was aware of the risk and closed his mind to it”.

In my opinion, the crime doesn’t fit the criteria for knowingly and purposefully causing damage – you may disagree, except you really have no grounding to as you weren’t there and did not speak to the ‘criminal’.

Im not rich or well off and yet i dont care what they do with their OWN money, just like you shouldnt care but some do and thats really bad, In most of the footage ive seen of ukuncut there mostly students and i bet most dont even understand what is goin on they just jump onto the band wagon.

Well that’s very sad indeed as it is not their OWN money but money that is owed to you and me and everyone else in this country. They have gone out of their way to engineer a system where they don’t have to pay it to you.

You are also mistaken in assuming that it is simply students that are protesting as I can say I hapilly demonstrated on Sunday along side people of many demographics and was proud to do so. Get out there and speak to these people before you jump to a conclusion – perhaps you’ll apreciate things differently without the internet as a front,

Boots/BHS/Topman etc all employ students throughout the year and yet students protest on one hand then ask for job in the other weird that isnt it 2 faced morality which seems to be current in half at least of ukuncut, so basically all that this is is attention seeking as most still shop in these stores lining the so called tax dodgers pockets still whilst crying about it at the protests which makes me laugh so loud at all the hipocrits.

‘Students’ may work for these bussiness but they are A) no the only employers out there and B) they are not the comanies those that demonstrated would probably work for.

I was in fact told by another demonstraator that he use to work for BHS and left because they expect sales assistance to plug the rewards cards (that cause people to get into high levels of debt) three times even when faced with a ‘no’ response. He still hasn’t recieved his final pay check.

Like i said in one of my above posts to many people crying over spilt milk that wont change so u have to ask yourself why waste your time trying.

Because if you don’t the issue will be ignored. At this point at least it has come to the attention of some and has been acknowledged by the governemnt. If you don’t spak up, no one will listen.

If you look at the twitter page of ukuncut you will see shouting for 1 mil protesters for london 26th march then all of a sudden a reality check kicks in and they know 1mil is pipe dreaming so they change it lolz u cant even set realistic targets.

The march on Mrach 26th is organised by the TUC, not by UKUncut… 1 million people would be great, it probably wouldn’t happen, but I can assure you there are more than 1 million people in this country adversely affected by the cuts.

Sadly, you have dragged me away from the origional issue, the use of CS gas and the call for a public enquiry. I shan’t reply anymore unless it is on that issue.

I’m also gald that I have served to amuse you though out this discussion.

CW2440 was being brutal right from the off; he dragged this woman out of Boots at the start of the protest.

http://hellotenzin.posterous.com/the-brutality-of-officer-cw2440