Fair enough but its not really an answer to the question what would you do? Ed Milliband doesn’t have to answer that question at all: his priority is winning the election. But Liberal Conspiracy should be thinking about that issue. At some point cuts have to be made- when the economy recovers possibly- so the issue is what would people here do? In particular how would people deal with an ageing population- ie an ever increasing NHS and pensions bill? I’m not sure that saying any cut anytime is bad is good for the left as policy thinking- however good it is politically.

This so called Coalition was born from the Diabolical Mess of the last General Election in May 2010. A vote for a Coalition Government was not on the Ballot Sheets because there was no Coalition Government to vote for as one did not exist and no one voted for or wanted a Coalition Government.

Because the last election ended up a Diabolical Mess for one reason and another the Liberal Democrates and Conservatives formed their so called Coalition and now both Nick Clegg and David Cameron arrogantly think that justifies their lie’s, changing policies to their hearts content and bringing in new policies that no one knew about or wanted and then they arrogantly claim that this is what the public voted for so tough, live with it.

This so called Coalition has been forced upon us and now it is behaving in a brutal way and putting into play policies that have not been fully thought out. It is an uncaring, brutal, deceitful, lying Coalition that is playing clever, deceitful psychological mind games with the electorate. Just three examples to keep this short : look at what they are doing to the most vulnerable in society and to the health service, they promised to Freeze the tax on fuel which they have been trying to get out of. The list of deceit is becoming longer and longer.

Because this so called Coalition was forced upon the nation those that do not recognise it and those that do not agree with how they are dealing with the nation’s welfare as an whole, or in part, should all stand together as one and speak with one voice and fight this deceitful so called Coalition before it is to late because we are all going to suffer the way they want us to, there is another way without being so ferocious.

It is my personal opinion that a massive demonstration should be held in London to show this so called Coalition what the nation thinks and say it loud and clear with one voice !

@2

“It is my personal opinion that a massive demonstration should be held in London to show this so called Coalition what the nation thinks and say it loud and clear with one voice !”

The TUC are organising just the mass march you ask for:
http://righttowork.org.uk/2010/12/tuc-march-for-the-alternative/

My mother (teacher for 30ish years) is going on it, at fiftysomething the first march she’s been on. I suspect a lot more “ordinary” (ie people who don’t read blogs, aren’t particularly party political etc) will also be on that march.

Mr S. Pill

Thank You for that information, I will most certainly be there along with many other friends and people in need.

Mr Grunt –

Good to know – I’d urge you & others to share the information as far as possible particularly to people who may not be as “involved” as others but are still concerned about the cuts. The more normal folk have their say the more this gov will have to take notice.

The trouble with an umbrella anti-cuts group is that in effect it has to oppose all the cuts of its constituent elements or risk internal fighting. Then it looks ridiculious since most people accept the need for some cuts in the abstract given the size of the deficit (even if they don’t like any specific ones presented to them).

Individual campiagns work better at preventing cuts because they are focused and can answer the ‘what would you cut?’ question by suggesting something else (So anti EMA cuts campaign can say cuts should be made in health spending, Anti health cuts protesters can say cut EMA) and since they are in separate groups they get away with it.

The unberalla group that has to solve the ‘what would you cut?’ question is the Labour Party. It can sit back right now and let the pressure groups do the heavy lifting but closer to the election it will have to square that circle. Trouble is that if its activist base if full of those who fought pretty much every cut, pursading them to accept some for electoral credibity made be hard.

“At some point cuts have to be made- when the economy recovers possibly- so the issue is what would people here do?”

@Steve,

Why are you trotting out this lie?

Cut’s do not ‘have to be made’ at all? Make the rich pay for their crisis. And to pre-empt your ‘well, they will all go abroad’ I will ask you – do we live in democracy, or not? We are facing cuts because of the behaviour of wealthy bankers; the cuts bear no relation to the behaviour of ordinary people yet you are accepting the lie that it os ordinary people who must be punished for the crisis of capital.

The banks were bailed out to the tune of 700 billion pounds. The current cuts are 83 billion over four years. Work it out will you.

Ah ye olde divide and conquer. I support all protests against the cuts – without exception. Sitting on one’s hands and repeating “oh dear” to yourself isn’t going to do much good. Is it?

It’s fine to support every protest against the cuts and it’s fine to believe that the cuts don’t need to be made. I wish I could think that and then get protesting but in truth I think no one has made a strong enough case. That’s why I don’t feel that I can just march under a “No to all Cuts” banner. I wouldn’t be honest.

However, I do feel that I can march against the implementation of cuts, the choices the government is making and the consequences that they will have. I think this is the best way to reach a broader amount of people…..

and I agree about the umbrella argument, just to avoiid the people’s front of judea if nothing else.

@9
The case for wide-ranging cuts has never been made. The Tory-led government has presented a series of narratives but no real coherent arguments in their defence. There is also the issue of solidarity. In this age, it is easy to think only of one’s self. After all, this is what Thatcher tried to inculcate to the masses with her “there is no such thing as society” spiel.

@10 – It’s true that before the election every party dodged the question of where they would make cuts but all 3 main parties said that they would make them, to varying degrees, and the public voted for the parties who were all calling for wide-ranging cuts.

I don’t understand the thinking of one’s self reference? As I said in my comment I think you can buid movements (with solidarity) based on implementation and impact. I don’t think you’ll build a broad based movement with “no to all cuts”. opinion polls consistently show that’s not where the public are at. But the public will be against specifics and that is where a movement needs to grow from.

The problem with an umbrella group against cuts is that each cut prevented makes the next one more likely. The country has a lot less money to spend than it would have done had the recession of 2008-9 not happened, and so spending will have to adjust to that fact sooner or later.

By all means argue that a slower or faster timing would be better for the economy, but protesting to delay a cut by 6 or 12 months isn’t going to get many people on the streets.

By all means argue for specific tax rises too, but be careful not to spend the proceeds of each tax rise more than once.

As Lib COn posted here – http://liberalconspiracy.org/2010/10/03/what-the-anti-cuts-movement-learn-from-the-anti-war-movement/

“Finally, we must be bottom up, not top down. The Stop the War campaign began to recede when small factions began to feud for control of decision making positions. But an effective mass movement cannot be controlled.

The beauty of a mass movement that it opens space for connections that hierarchical planning and organising cannot predict. It is decentralised, playful and creative. Who, for example, would have predicted that the global anti-war movement would give impetus to the election of the US’ most progressive president for a generation?

The lesson the anti-cuts movement can learn from Stop the War is that we can’t wait for someone to make decisions for us about how we campaign. We need to make our own campaigns, in our own neighbourhoods, using the most powerful tactics we are comfortable with. And most importantly, we need a back up plan for what we do if our representatives ignore us.”

The cuts aren’t inevitable they’re ideological. The Green New Deal Group have been talking about affordable, costed solutions since 2008 – go to http://www.neweconomics.org and search for “Green New Deal” or check out a political party that campaigned in the General Election on a fully costed (by high profile economists) recession-busting programme of job creation etc http://www.greenparty.org.uk/news-archive/3493.html

“each cut prevented makes the next one more likely”

I think the opposite is true. When people see one anti-cuts campaign succeed, that empowers them to fight harder to defend the next in line. Given that the cuts are being imposed on wider society (mainly the poor) to pay for the actions of the rich, the more the poor act up, the more likely that the state will be forced to move towards, e.g. “haircutting” speculators.

As for the OP, it’s based on a wrong premise. An “umbrella campaign” doesn’t have to impose a top-down line. A federation of local anti-cuts groups can come together for support, sharing resources and co-ordination. That would give more bang for the buck without losing the advantages of broad base, tactical flexibility, etc.

milgram, each cut prevented means there is less money for everything else. The country is poorer than it expected to be when spending for 2011 was originally planned, and no amount of protest can change this.

Though actually protest won’t stop any cuts. Reasoned argument might change the odd one, but we hear little enough of that.

But an umbrella group doesn’t have to encompass everyone’s opinions. It doesn’t have to be about ideology, it need only be a one stop shop to collate smaller events, links to blogs, etc, to direct people to regardless of what it is they oppose.

I’m not suggesting everyone march hand in hand together to Westminster. I’m suggesting that that, for those who oppose the cuts, but who don’t know where to start in having their voice heard, it’s a confusing place out there. One website, where people can get information, in order to make their own decisions, would be useful I think.