My introduction at Netroots UK today


9:15 am - January 8th 2011

by Sunny Hundal    


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Today, Netroots UK brings together a new generation of left activists, working and discussing politics online, with the veteran institutions of trade unions and many others.

Our plan isn’t to have long-winded discussions, but create useful spaces where people can discuss strategy drawing on their experience of local campaigns: what works and what doesn’t.

Some people have asked whether this is an event just to celebrate how great blogging, Twitter, Facebook or social media generally are. That would be absurd.

The idea behind the original Netroots Nation, and behind Netroots UK is to leverage social media and other tools for political action. None of us believe that blogging alone will change the world.

This event isn’t about blogging in itself – it is about how to use social media to inform, energise and mobilise people for left-wing causes. Social media just makes it much easier for us to do that.

If you want to know about local organising: see the session on how local groups are fighting to defend public services in their area. There is a session on how to turn online activity into local action. And also on how to take it hyper-local.

We need to help build people’s skills and connect them up so they can get involved in the issues they feel passionate out. We need to create new movements.

If the government’s plans to impose drastic cuts have united the left in opposition, the student protests were a shot in the arm to mobilise against them quickly.

However, there is a danger that left activists repeat the mistakes of the past.

First, we cannot ignore parliament. Demonstrations and strikes alone won’t halt the government’s agenda. There also has to also be a concerted effort to influence Westminster on its own terms through, for example, local mobilisation, campaigns to “recall” MPs, voter registration and door-to-door leafleting.

Strike action and demonstrations also have their part to play but this isn’t an either/or situation. Different people have different preferred methods, and we need as many as possible to stop this government’s ruinous agenda. We have to make MPs’ lives difficult in their own back yard.

Second, it would be dangerous for us to get too carried away by our own radical rhetoric and ignore broader public opinion.

The polls show people are gradually becoming more sceptical of the coalition’s claims, but there is no widespread outrage yet. You may feel it around you, but this is self-selecting. The Conservative party polling is still holding up strongly, and unless that is undermined the government will not backtrack.

We need to find ways to generate outrage amongst Middle England too, and our traditional methods may not be the best way to do that. We need to painstakingly inform the wider public and speak to them on their own terms about their concerns.

Lastly, let a thousand flowers bloom. We must create broad coalitions that avoid the sectarian fights of the past. There must be space to oppose the Conservative agenda in different ways rather than insisting that everyone sing from the same hymn sheet.

I’m sick of people on the left denouncing others for doing things differently to them. If you want to peacefully shut down Topshop, more power to you. If you want to hold a symbolic protest to protect our forests or libraries – I’m not going to criticise that. If you are engaged in strike action to protect jobs: I would support that too.

We need to create the space for people to fight back on their own terms.

The energy of the last few months has been very inspiring, but to truly sustain it and make an impact over the longer term, we will need to dig our heels in for a long war.

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About the author
Sunny Hundal is editor of LC. Also: on Twitter, at Pickled Politics and Guardian CIF.
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Reader comments


Anticipating great things to become part of. Good start!

Hyper-local? Seriously?

Sunny

Please do us all a favour and leave the left alone. As usual your ‘solution’ is a mish-mash of vague liberal blandishments and wishful thinking. I seriously doubt you own a serious political conviction; your idea of the left appears to be a fuckin big talking shop with a prominent role for a certain Mr Hundal. Seriously, you’re a liability; a craven self-serving careerist. Just how many ‘progressive alliances’ have you launched by now?..there seems to be a pattern here…and a clear message: Sunny at the helm = embarrassing flop. I’m not certain why. Could be your overweening ambition; your struggle with coherent, consistent thought; possibly your catastrophic prose style; maybe even your grating personality. Who knows or cares? But, if you have any genuine feeling for the left, please go away; you’re an albatross around its neck.

Oh..and take Laurie Penny with you. How is anyone meant to regard this thing as serious with you and the poor little rich girl on board who, I assume, either found her ‘consciousness’ when her pony died or the day she finally realised daddy wasn’t being entirely objective in calling her the world’s most beautiful princess. Something must have happened. Just a few years later and a matter of months after graduating from Oxford, she seems to have undergone a radical transformation into a struggling starving proletarian.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2010/apr/30/general-election-unemployment-poverty?INTCMP=SRCH

“”We were living like a scene from Withnail & I, except there was no space to move,” she said. “It was very miserable. People get very depressed – that level of poverty has a bad effect on your mental health, it makes people feel that nothing will ever get better.”…jesus..that poor gal’s been through the mill…the true voice of a generation.

Go on…disappear together; you’re a match made in heaven…self-loving, mendacious fantasists both.

5. Charles, Marxed

@monkeyfish

rather than throw insults around, how about you show people what you’re doing to organise things and make stuff happen? Or do you just like trolling?

6. Charles, Marxed

@monkeyfish (again)

also, can you not be left-wing if you’re family had a bit of money or you went to a posh school? I’m sure Orwell and Tony Benn will be pleased to hear that.

Charlie

“Or do you just like trolling?”

You serious?..you don’t think there’s a serious issue here? How can the left appeal to anybody when its supposed figureheads are careerist showboaters with a track-record the likes of Sunny’s.Sunny whose past ‘hits’ have included: “Why brown people should vote Tory”, “‘the Guardian endorses the LibDems and I’m with them”, his 500 or so “The Daily Mail’s a right-wing rag” revelations, his multiple ‘bears shit in the woods’ exposes of the BNP as a fascist organisation…FFS..his only agenda is “Look at me I’m Sunny Hundal..feel my concern”. He’s a joke, a recidivist opportunist…and, to be fair, I used to laugh him…now I think he’s positively harmful.

People will look at Netroots, see his name and turn away in droves…and as for Laurie Penny, so desperate to play the victim, so willing to write contrarian shite to order just to get noticed, the poor little rich girl searching frantically for any trace of a credential or two which places her among the dispossessed…stomach turning.

“can you not be left-wing if you’re family had a bit of money or you went to a posh school? I’m sure Orwell and Tony Benn will be pleased to hear that.”

Well…yes… you kind of answer your own question there matey. Orwell and Benn were and are notable among other things for their frankness and honesty…both paragons of left-wing integrity. Laurie Penny is a chancer; a posturing fake…regardless of whether she really posses any left-wing convictions (apart from a certain openness to identity and vague liberal relativist strain), one thing she certainly lacks is any integrity…and frankly, I want a left which values integrity; not grandstanding manufactured hype and brand-construction.

Penny’s and Hundal’s pretensions are inimical to the advance of the left and play right into the Tory’s hands…their presence confirms that any popular left-wing internet dissent is likely to consist to a large degree in vacuous bullshit.

OH shit…just noticed the title of his other piece…” Netroots UK has sold out”..kinda says it all.

OK..that’s me done. All that remains is for Mr H or one of the loyal poodles to nip on, accuse me of being a Tory mole, xenophobe, confederate of Guido and wipe the slate..you could make this place up

Left my arse

…in San Fransisco…high on a pill…he’s out his tree

10. Charles, Marxed

OK, so you didn’t answer my questions. Nice work on, y’know, not being a troll and stuff *rolleyes*

11. Charles, Marxed

@monkeyfish

“I want a left which values integrity”

– so why bring up Laurie Penny’s Oxford education? Why does it matter to you where someone was educated? If you have a problem with someone’s politics or writing then contructive criticism is always helpful, but throwing insults around doesn’t do you any favours at all. You’re not showing any “integrity” yourself by coming on to Liberal Conspiracy to slag off the editor, you know – it’s like going to a party at someone’s house and then slagging off the host; no-one is impressed and you look like a bit of a tit, I’m afraid.

So, what have you done to organise things? Are you an activist/campaigner? Do you join protests? Do you write a blog explaining your worldview to others in the hope that they will join you? Do you partake in discussions with people of similar or differing views? Do you lobby your MP on a regular basis? Do you engage your friends and colleagues in political discussion in a bid to win them to your cause? Are you a trade unionist? Do you work with organisations like Defend Council Housing or Hope Not Hate?

It’s easy to throw stones at people, especially when they are relatively successful (as Penny & Hundal are, no matter what you think of their writing). How about you show us how it should be done, if you know what the problem is you must have a solution?

“Today, Netroots UK brings together a new generation of left activists, working and discussing politics online, withour paymasters the trade unions and many others. ”

Fixed it for you Sunny….

@9 I’m going to try to not acuse you of anything, so I thought I would give a quick reply. The general gist I want to get across to you is that stawmen arguments aren’t effective at getting anyone to sympatise with your point of view, it just makes you look irrationally angry and energises the opposition to your point of view. The fact that you try to preempt the responses in post 9 shows you know exactly what your posts will lead to. So I just want to know exactly why you are bothering. Surely it’s better to come across as more thoughtful and provide constructive criticism. In the end it seems to me that Netroots is a good thing so surely it’s more important to help give strength to the grass roots.

14. anonyperson

I agree with monkeyfish.

Is it true that the netroots conference is being attended by approx 400 people? A few hundred people, many of them journos, organised by Labour activists, in central London?

Monkeyfish is right that there is a serious issue here. Hundal, Penny, Toynbee – these people dont represent us, but theyre making a living from pretending to. All three are dismissive of any working class voices that disagree with them on any issue. They hope to lead the way and we are supposed to just follow. Im dismayed, disgusted, and depressed by it.

14@ well I don’t see much wrong with 400 people everything starts small and then gets larger. I think it would be a very weird person who could represent every single type of labour supporter, the whole point of being diverse solves that issue. If you don’t think that the speakers chime with you, it’s better to throw your weight behind people who do rather than attacking other advocates with grose hyperboly. I personally haven’t seen Sunny be dismissive of the working class who disagree with him, so I can’t agree with you there.

“so why bring up Laurie Penny’s Oxford education? Why does it matter to you where someone was educated?”

it doesn’t..but it illustrates the extent of her posturing and the extent to which she exaggerates her victimhood..it was illustrative.

“You’re not showing any “integrity” yourself by coming on to Liberal Conspiracy to slag off the editor,”

well considering my opinion of the editor, his worth and his track-record I think coming on here to slag him off shows just how completely honest I am…which in turn demonstrates my integrity..to do otherwise would surely show a lack of integrity…no?

“it’s like going to a party at someone’s house and then slagging off the host; no-one is impressed and you look like a bit of a tit, I’m afraid.”

…so..are you saying it’s invitation only or is there an unwritten agenda which dictates that only people who admire Sunny and agree with him should bother to comment? What are you saying? I genuinely believe Sunny’s participation is deleterious to the cause…shouldn’t I be able to say so. Surely the onus is on you to demonstrate otherwise..good luck with that.

Incidentally, when I refer above to ‘people who agree with Sunny’, which ‘Sunny’ are we referring to? It’s not as though it’s easy to pin down a definitive Hundal position; the guy flip-flops around like a beached mackerel; largely informed by whichever position best suits his own advantage at any given time.

“So, what have you done to organise things? Are you an activist/campaigner? Do you join protests? ”

I’m getting laid off sunshine…I protest like you wouldn’t fuckin believe…I want these cuts reversed and, unlikely as that prospect seems right now, I’m absolutely convinced that the likes of Sunny and Laurie Penny make the task so much harder as any reasonable, rational person is put off taking a stance by their somewhat blemished record and distinct lack of integrity and inability to coral consistent, coherent argument.

“How about you show us how it should be done, if you know what the problem is you must have a solution?”

step 1: purge your campaign of opportunist careerists

step2: stop preaching to the converted..knock on doors..and before you ask..yes

“The general gist I want to get across to you is that stawmen arguments aren’t effective at getting anyone to sympatise with your point of view”

Strawman arguments?..oh yeah..it’s Liberal conspiracy..forgot..but how do you manage to classify any of….

1) Sunny Hundal’s major motivation is the glorification of Sunny Hundal and this facts deters people from associating themselves with campaigns featuring Sunny Hundal.

2) Sunny Hundal writes poorly.

3) Sunny Hundal lacks the ability to sustain rational argument.

4) Laurie Penny lacks integrity as shown by her ridiculous attempts to reinvent her past and recast herself as a victim.

…as strawmen?..which do you consider the false premisses? and why?

anonyperson

cheers..likewise

17. anonyperson

tweeted by Laurie Penny (from her ipad!) re netroots:

“We’re listening politely whilst appointed arbiters of the centre-left mow the grassroots into a neat, acceptable bourgeois lawn #netrootsuk”

Even she gets that this is all about ‘appointed arbiters of the centre left’, ‘neat’, ‘acceptable’ and ‘bourgeois’.

The only thing she misses is that this is exactly how some of us see her, too.

On cif it was pointed out that while Penny complained about the sexism of her peers and being stuck on a ‘womens panel’ at netroots, she didnt boycott the event, refuse to speak out of principal, or any other number of things she could have done if she really was bothered by it. But why would she? She had all the privileges of the well off middle class growing up, she didnt choose to study in a ‘regular’ university but took her class given opportunity to go to Oxford and meet the right people, get the right credentials, and afterwards when she left, she didnt use her inheritance, her contacts, her voice to push forward working class writers and voices. She used her class privileges to push herself forward as (variously) the voice of the unemployed, the disabled, women, of ‘her generation’, and of the working class kids who were apparently for the first time in history going to be denied access to university.

At no point in time, as far as I can see, has Laurie Penny ever turned down an opportunity to expand on her own privilege in favour of actual solidarity with the rest of us. Why would she start now?

Its all bogus.

“I personally haven’t seen Sunny be dismissive of the working class who disagree with him, so I can’t agree with you there.”

but Sunny Hundal never bothers with the working class except in a vague theoretical manner somewhat reminiscent of the attitude displayed by those inside the smallish metropolitan media bubble…and whether or not he’s: in that bubble; considers himself to be;or merely aspires to be, he’s certainly already apes the general patronising condescension characteristic of their tribe.

Now I’ll admit this next bit is a piece of speculation, but I rather suppose that Sunny’s personal take on the working class is somewhat antagonistic…if he’s at all like various other liberals with pretensions to power that I’ve come across his thinking on the working class would vary between…

a) Why don’t they love me?..don’t they know I’m their voice?…don’t they know I’m their leader?
b) Bunch of knuckle dragging crypto-fascist, wide-screen, plasma lager-guzzling ingrates.
c) Why the fuck won’t they do what I want?
d) How dare they talk to me like that?

19. anonyperson

Mason – so what happens after this group of 400 Labour activists, Labour bloggers, and journalists finish up for the weekend? Theyre going to come back to our communities all over the country and share what theyve learned in their workshops? Bollocks are they. Theyll go back to their homes in London and surrounding area and attempt to use their participation in netroots and the contacts they made there to further themselves as ‘voices’ and ‘leaders’ of ‘the movement’ via the net. Same as before, only theyll be a tighter clique sharing memories of this exclusive networking weekend away.

The problem goes beyond Laurie Penny and Sunny Hundal, theyre just the most obvious figures in this. Its all shallow, glossy PR for the next generation of bullshit artists.

@16 well it would be silly to try to explain how post 4 and 7 contains informal fallacys designed to misinterpret a persons position through your extracted comments in post16 that leave out the strawmen. The statements in post 16 are just subjective ad hominims, which anyone knows are only relevant to the person making them and won’t be useful to change other peoples position. I gave you an opportunity to explain you position and you resorted to trying to distort my use of vocabulary, unfortunately I don’t think I’ll be getting calm answers from you if that’s your first response. However I will try again, how do you think your posting is helping and wouldn’t constructive criticism be more helpful furthermore isn’t using netroots to encourage the grassroots a good thing.

While I don’t often agree with Laurie Penny I think she writes well. That said I’m not sure how this sort of thing helps the Left:

http://liberalconspiracy.org/2009/07/07/harry-potter-and-the-fascist-ubermensch/

It’s the sort of over analysis that justifies right-wing claims of “loony left”. Your average floating or Labour voter would just read that and think “wtf?”

As for Sunny he at least realises that the SWP brigade and far-left fellow travellers are toxic.

22. Charles, Marxed

@monkeyfish

“well considering my opinion of the editor, his worth and his track-record I think coming on here to slag him off shows just how completely honest I am”

Er, no – that’s the textbook definition of a troll, I’m afraid. Try harder.

“…so..are you saying it’s invitation only or is there an unwritten agenda which dictates that only people who admire Sunny and agree with him should bother to comment? What are you saying? I genuinely believe Sunny’s participation is deleterious to the cause…shouldn’t I be able to say so. Surely the onus is on you to demonstrate otherwise..good luck with that. ”

Not at all, I’m v anti-censorship & pro-freedom of speech. I just get a bit tired of reading the same old tirade’s against Hundal on this website. Play the ball, not the man.

“I’m getting laid off sunshine…I protest like you wouldn’t fuckin believe…I want these cuts reversed and, unlikely as that prospect seems right now, I’m absolutely convinced that the likes of Sunny and Laurie Penny make the task so much harder as any reasonable, rational person is put off taking a stance by their somewhat blemished record and distinct lack of integrity and inability to coral consistent, coherent argument.”

What’s with the “sunshine”? You trying to play the prolier than thou card..? Anyway, I’m sorry you’re losing your job – I lost mine 18 months ago & am yet to find anything else. I think you’re on the wrong line though – people like Hundal & Penny can be highly persuasive writers – and Hundal hosting this website offers a medium not just for his own voice, you know. There are lots of contributers including *gasp* working class people, disabled, etc etc. People who are denied a voice elsewhere. I disagree with Hundal on some issues but I’m not going to personally attack him – I’ve never met him. Have you?
Liking someone’s writing is a matter of taste. I happen to find Penny’s articles highly informative and sometimes entertaining, particularly around the student protests at the back end of last year. They bring the issues to a wider audience – why are you opposed to this?

“step 1: purge your campaign of opportunist careerists

step2: stop preaching to the converted..knock on doors..and before you ask..yes”

Mmm, we’ve heard this language of “purging” before, haven’t we… so what you want is an ideologically pure, no-one-can-disagree-with-monkeyfish movement. It’s not going to happen – hence the need for unity in the face of the cuts despite differences, and yes that means people from Oxford too. & who is preaching to the converted? Are you aware of the campaigning work done by many of the writers on this (and other) sites? If you mean things like Netroots, well I’d say it was important for people to share information that others may not be aware of, wouldn’t you?

Oh, and “it doesn’t..but it illustrates the extent of her posturing and the extent to which she exaggerates her victimhood..it was illustrative.” – I’m afraid I don’t believe you. I think you are a petty inverse snob, & if Orwell was around today you’d be shouting at him for being an Etonian. If Laurie Penny wants to go against the trend of her class and write about the things that affect people then more power to her pen.

23. Charles, Marxed

@21

We all have our off-days!

24. Charles, Marxed

(although, I think that article is to be taken with a sackful of salt… irony never works on internets).

@18 im not sure what you mean by bothering with the working class? Not trying to atangonise but surely every person who isn’t working class who advocates for them only has a theoretical understanding. I’ll be honest I’m upper middle class but half my family and my best friend are working class. Now I’m happy to say I will never totally understand what it’s like to struggle, however i still don’t like the idea my friends and family do struggle. It probably would make more financial sense for me to stereotypically vote Tory, but I can’t stand the thought of inequality and I truly love the NHS, so I will vote labour. I’m not sure if that makes me part of the tribe, but isnt it better I vote labour in the hopes it will make the country fairer than vote Tory out of selfishness. Please do correct me if I’ve misinterpreted your position in any way. I personally have a deep dislike of the media bubble myself due to its rediculous influence on oppionion through manipulation. On sunny’s mindset, I can’t comment.

Have to say that I largely agree with anonyperson here. I work in a deprived area where internet connectivity isn’t really happening, due to the cost of getting on-line. There is also a body of research evidence that older people and the disabled are both digitally and socially excluded. These are the very people for whom the left used to fight – those who are disadvantaged and marginalised in our society.

In the real world, I have to contend with activists from the likes of the BNP and the EDL face to face, not at arms length. In the on-line world, I have to contend with Tory trolls. It’s all getting me down, tbh, as it feels like ‘they’ are winning the battle.

@19 well I’m not able to predict the behaviour of all 400 people, however I do know that we live in a society where PR gains you more votes than evidence. The Tory’s are very good at the former and not the latter. Honestly anyone who goes out to increase labour votes is helping. As long as they don’t scare off voters they should be left to it. Sounds very cut throat but that’s democracy 1 part passion 1 part ideology and 3 parts cold hard tactics. If you disagree with the people who run it you should critise them constructively rather than slag them off. It benefits you in the end as change doesn’t come from emotive attacking because people just ignore you. I have never met Sunny or the other 400 so I can’t say what their motivations are, all I can comment on is netroots. In principle it’s a good idea and it’s worth at least trying.

28. monkeyfish

“However I will try again, how do you think your posting is helping and wouldn’t constructive criticism be more helpful furthermore isn’t using netroots to encourage the grassroots a good thing.”

helping what?…I’m not here to help Netroots…I’m here to persuade people that Suuny Hundal is a harmful addition to any campaign…in fact, his inclusion, is my major reason for disparaging Netroots…although Penny and Toynbee don’t exactly fill me with any great confidence either.

That’s the point I’m making. Maybe somebody should have appended a notice informing me that this thread was soley for the purpose of registering support and wishing good luck to all involved. I was labouring under the misapprehension that this was some kind of discussion forum…I see I was wrong…I know see that I was wrong and participation is premised on the notion that Nteroots is an unalloyed force for good…presumably somebody proved this definitively in an earlier post…please provide a link.

#“well considering my opinion of the editor, his worth and his track-record I think coming on here to slag him off shows just how completely honest I am”

Er, no – that’s the textbook definition of a troll, I’m afraid. Try harder.#

Really…so anybody who ever slags anybody off is a troll?..or is it just when somebody slags off Sunny on here?…I’m certain I’ve seen Sunny slagging of Guido, for instance…countless times..is Sunny a troll?…are you a troll for calling me a troll?

I’d get a new textbook mate…or a logic primer.

“people like Hundal & Penny can be highly persuasive writers”

see above…also, Sunny’s style is strictly sixth-form pedant…and Penny is a shrill attention seeker…get real sonny boy.

as for the rest of your post…what can I say…your assessment of Hundal and Penny kinda threw me and I couldn’t take anything else seriously…but I loved this bit..

“I’m afraid I don’t believe you. I think you are a petty inverse snob, & if Orwell was around today you’d be shouting at him for being an Etonian”

1) don’t believe what?…that I think she’s a giant fraud?
2)Re Orwell…I doubt I’d be doing any such thing. a) he could write b) he was genuine c) when did he ‘rebrand’ his past to seek a position of influence?

@26 my voluntary work puts me in contact with the disadvantaged too and I totally agree with what you say. The right wing is always going to be overrepresented on the net and other media. Due to the fact that most of it is owned by right wing thinkers. The fact that most of the underprivileged cant afford
Modern media is another thing that can lead to odd perseptions in numbers. This is where the left wing needs to stick together, we definitely have more potential votes however we don’t have the infrastructure like media control to utilise these numbers. This is why I won’t attack our side rather I will give constructive critism. Netroots might only focus on a part of labours voters however it shouldn’t be stopped because of that, it should be reinforced with other types of campaigns. We are all stronger together and I have no doubt if we construct a strong grass roots we will be able to force society onto a fairier path.

30. Charles, Marxed

@28

You really don’t see what you’re doing as trollish behaviour, do you?* You come on to a website that you dislike & proceed to insult the editor with ad-homs and straw-man attacks (all that crap about the working class, since you ask) – then when someone takes you up on it you say “as for the rest of your post…what can I say…your assessment of Hundal and Penny kinda threw me and I couldn’t take anything else seriously…” << an attempt at shutting down debate because you can't stand the heat. So, so typical. And so sad to see from someone who pretends to be of the left. I'll repeat: good writing is a matter of taste. I – and others – happen to think contriwise to you. I have pointed this out to you, but also pointed out that even if you think they are bad writers it is undeniable that they bring issues to a wider audience. Why do you hate that so much? Is it cos they is posh (apparently)? God forbid that we have people from all walks of life fighting against inequality and social injustice! “Sorry, you can’t join our gang – you have failed the class-test. Please go and work 20 years down a mine & try again after that” << is that your ideal world? Because it certainly sounds like it.

And no, I don't believe that your use of Penny's Oxford education as an example of why she is apparently a bad person was "illustrative", is what I was getting at.

I really couldn't give a shit whether you think Penny is a fraud or not. All of your posts come across as someone sneering at others for trying to build a movement, based on your own insecurities perhaps & jealousy of others success.

*http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troll_(Internet)
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/What_is_a_troll?

Yeah good luck with netroots. Will try and keep up.

“I do not believe in the power of politics to change things. People change and politicians follow” Maxi Jazz -Faithless

I’m hoping its inevitable really.

On my wish list I hope “progressive” can leave left/right tribalism behind. It disturbs me that people here think putting energy into trying to reinvent the labour party after what we have seen over the last fifteen years is a good idea and they aren’t looking for more fundamental change, but whatever you do, judge by results. If it doesn’t work, move on and try something new.

I think success would come from concentrating on a wholistic approach and championing simple stuff which works beyond politics. There is a robust method of creating working and living community which I am hoping can be widened beyond actual neighbours to virtual neighbours and international neignbours.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cooperative

If we cooperate we will be stronger. Simple as that. If enough of us cooperate we can be a strong economic unit which not only challenges the extremes of capitalism but will cause consumers to abandon extremist capitalism as a blatantly outmoded concept. Not sure how to translate it large scale and very adverse to attempt anything myself through the facilitation of “left wing politics” but I think its possible, and in basic evolutionary terms even probable.

in some ways it already underway with micro-movement in fairtrade, community wind farms etc.

Stay results based, rather than ideologically based and if the results work politicians of every stripe will scrabble to get on board.

good luck

@28 sorry I should have split that into two separate questions. It should have read, 1) why does attacking sunny and the others help you to persuade anyone who doesn’t already agree with you.

I was pretty agnostic about the whole thing until I saw your posts, they just drive opposition against you.

2) isn’t the idea of trying to organise the grass roots a good idea? If net roots is a good idea then surely personally attacking some of the organisers can lead to the weakening of said good idea.

I personally can’t comment on the motivations of the organisers. But if I did find something that I disagreed with I wouldn’t use personal attacks. That’s my main contention with your technique, it damages netroots not just Sunny.

@ 29

“Netroots might only focus on a part of labours voters however it shouldn’t be stopped because of that, it should be reinforced with other types of campaigns”.

It’s the other types of campaigns I’m interested in – the things Labour did so well in the past. Like sending women activists out into the community to talk about the suffrage. The BNP candidates are local people out there cutting old ladies’ front lawns, they are talking to people IRL outside the shops. Labour candidates are being parachuted in, they are not even local to the areas they want to represent.

also urban farming is a good example of beyond political thinking http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/7495717.stm

do stop me if I am not being confrontational enough

step 1: purge your campaign of opportunist careerists

Brilliant. Well at least you won’t have to worry too much about step 2, since you’ll never reach it.

@33 definately shows we have allot more work to do. I’m trying to do my bit, but unfortunately I’m a terrible organisier. I’m all up for participating in all sorts of
campaigns though. It’s just important not to let the Tory PR get you down. I mean honestly I think the cuts are going to destroy them anyway they are failing to frame them as necessary, all I hope is that the NHS is fixable once they are out of power.

@31

I’m sorry, but fair trade & community winds farms as viable solutions to community engagment? I don’t think either will cut the mustard on the Wybourn or Parson Cross estates in Sheffield, where my friends live.

You need to get talk to people IRL and then work to empower them to come up with their own solutions to their problems. Unfortunately, it doesn’t make for pleasant listening at times.

@36

I hope to the great Sky Pixie that you are right about the NHS, but I fear the worst.

@37 lol try hoping to the flying spagetti monster he always seems to get me better results 🙂

39. monkeyfish

“You really don’t see what you’re doing as trollish behaviour, do you?*”

And you don’t see that your definitions preclude criticism of an editor on his own blog..which I’m sure even you’ll agree is a totally indefensible position and intellectually shallow

“You come on to a website that you dislike & proceed to insult the editor with ad-homs and straw-man attacks (all that crap about the working class, since you ask)”

I don’t dislike this website..I don’t even wholly dislike Sunny Hundal (some of his rants are wildly entertaining)…however, I do genuinely believe that he doesn’t represent a positive force in any left-wing revival or attack on Tory cuts. However, you’ve arrived at a wholly subjective and suspiciously convenient definition of trolling which you claim disbars me from saying so…in fact in essence, that’s your entire argument: “I don’t agree with you and you can’t say that here…therefore you’re a troll QED”…which is friggin ridiculous.

…as for your strawman ‘example’, you know very well that the “crap about the working class” was prefaced with the rider that it was speculation on my part…I’d already clearly stated my major bones of contention in four numbered statements and asked which you thought represented a false premise…you ignored the question.

Your methodology seems to run…1) Shout ‘Troll’ and if that fails to work 2) claim you’ve detected a strawman argument…which is a little shallow at the best of times; but downright risible since when don’t seem to have a clear idea of what either a troll or a strawman argument is.

“then when someone takes you up on it you say “as for the rest of your post…what can I say…your assessment of Hundal and Penny kinda threw me and I couldn’t take anything else seriously…” << an attempt at shutting down debate because you can't stand the heat."

but the rest of your post didn't say anything…it was just a further riff playing on the assumption that you'd outed me as a troll using strawmen…and it does genuinely throw me to find myself in a parallel universe where Sunny and 'Cher' are regarded as serious thinkers.

"And no, I don't believe that your use of Penny's Oxford education as an example of why she is apparently a bad person was "illustrative", is what I was getting at."

…and why not? why don't you believe me? I'd be happy to represent any upper middle-class graduate playing at being a 'starving prole' a fraud…if said fraud was an Oxbridge graduate I'd think them doubly fraudulent…especially when it's all about getting a media foothold in order to act as the voice of the disadvantaged and exploited…and 'parallel universe' or not, if you can't see the hypocrisy latent in that then I don't think you possess the objectivity and common sense necessary to form any sensible judgement.

"All of your posts come across as someone sneering at others for trying to build a movement, based on your own insecurities perhaps & jealousy of others success."

insecurities? please explain..I don't follow
…and as for 'jealousy'…jealous of what? Jealous of the bare-faced front it takes to misrepresent oneself to such a pathetic extent…hmmm?

I'd look at the final sentence of MsChin (33)…"Labour candidates are being parachuted in, they are not even local to the areas they want to represent."

…and just where do you think the future 'parachutists' are right now?…Netroots possibly?…it's not about community engagement and you know it; it's a networking opportunity for a bunch of opportunist careerists.

And, incidentally…the wiki leaks..grow up.

Mason

"1) why does attacking sunny and the others help you to persuade anyone who doesn’t already agree with you."

well..since my point is that I think Sunny is detrimental to the campaign…I thought the best way to get the point across would be to say something along the lines of "I think Sunny is detrimental to the campaign"..clear now?

"2) isn’t the idea of trying to organise the grass roots a good idea? If net roots is a good idea then surely personally attacking some of the organisers can lead to the weakening of said good idea."

hang on ..you're begging the question. Let's split that up.

" isn’t the idea of trying to organise the grass roots a good idea?"

yes..couldn't agree more

…but you seem to have assumed that grass roots organisation being a good thing and Netroots being a good thing are one and the same. I don't think Netroots is the way to go…I think Netroots is just a fuckin big talking shop for all the usual ambitious suspects to big themselves up and further their credentials as the voices of radical dissent…a judgement I've formed based on the nature of the participants and their past records.

@37. MsChin

Really? Do check out Cookpole Energy Action

http://www.energyaction.org.uk/

All the income generated is hardwired into replacing stuff which has been eroded from their community over the years. They have plans for a community pub, post office, orchard, organic food hub, they are running a green good neighbour scheme…

All results based and NO BOLLITICS.

What is “talking to people IRL” and what are they suggesting?

41. monkeyfish

“They have plans for a community pub, post office, orchard, organic food hub, they are running a green good neighbour scheme…”

..and they’re applying for £50000 from the lottery fund to buy a friggin wind turbine…FFS..why is this money to a bunch of self-righteous, self-indulgent freaks?…couldn’t it spent on somebody who needs help rather than satisfying the smug little fantasies of a group of eco-nutters…THE FUCKIN THINGS DON’T WORK

@Monkeyfish

I’m not really following your drift here – Sunny seems to have gone out of his way to stress that this is NOT about networking and debate, even if these are activities that him and Laurie would otherwise be found doing. I think your problem is more with what Sunny and Laurie represent to you – aspiration, self-promotion – rather than what they’re trying to do with this conference. And your definition of ‘the left’ doesn’t include these things, so you appoint yourself the righteous voice of the ‘true’ left, and cast them as ‘fakers’.

Surely this is just the sort of sectarian division – old left, new left, authentic left, whatever – that tends to paralyse most attempts to rally the left?

haha very good. Well done. Very funny. haha.

And you don’t see that your definitions preclude criticism of an editor on his own blog.

Dangleberry, you’re taking yourself altogether more seriously than your brainless ranting deserves.

You’re not ‘criticising’ anyone, you’re showering Sunny and Laurie with witless personal abuse. And then you demand that your string of insults be treated a serious critique.

45. anonyperson

“Sunny seems to have gone out of his way to stress that this is NOT about networking and debate”

from the netroots uk website:

“A one day event to help network and inspire progressive activists working on the web.

..

Netroots UK will bring together hundreds of grassroots activists in central London for a day of workshops, discussions and networking activity.
* Hear from innovative and effective campaigns in other fields.
* Make useful contacts with key people and organisations.
* Get practical training in digital techniques and technologies.
* Take part in the debate on the future of UK activism.

The day will feature keynote speakers and discussions, as well as many workshops, aimed at all levels of activists. There will be plenty of opportunity for networking outside the organised sessions.”

The whole point of the event is to bring together ‘key people and organisations’ in central London to network and set the agenda for ‘future uk activism’. It is what it is being criticised for. It is cliquey, elitist, London-centric.

Of course some of those who attended have been slagging it off on twitter for all of the above. But are they slagging it off because they really understand how alienating and self important the whole exercise is, or because they think opposing it on twitter while continuing to benefit from the advantages of being included in that clique will earn them a few points outside of it?

42 & 44 have hit the nail invent head here. Ambition and notoriety are an anathema to the far left and therefore render any areguement ppl of that ilk advance as void, populist and cop out. Rather than hit the campaign trail and try to convince ppl of their own point of view it is far easier to attack, with vitriol, those views they dislike. Opinionated and self righteuos comes to mind?

@40

“They have plans for a community pub, post office, orchard, organic food hub, they are running a green good neighbour scheme…”

Well, great. I’m pleased for them.

Over in Derbyshire, the residents are up in arms against a proposed wind farm:
http://www.wind-watch.org/news/2010/11/18/campaigner-tells-of-fear-in-village/

and a proposed anaerobic digestor scheme;
http://whitwellagainstalkane.info/about-waa/

Talking to people in real life means engaging with them on issues that matter to them, face to face.

My best friend has grown up mixed race children but gave me a flea in my ear the other day about “illegal immigrants taking all the housing in Sheffield”, despite my best efforts to persuade her otherwise by referring to immigration/ emigration statistics. She told me that she didn’t believe the figures, that she believe dwhat she sees with her own eyes. She was also pretty upset about being offered £40 per month food vouchers at Asda (somewhere she doesn’t shop, as it’s not local to her) to help her care for her elderly mother: she needs help with fuel costs and help with her own disability needs.

A group of people with learning disabilities who have worked hard to develop anti-hate crime work & social events had me reduced to tears before Xmas over the cuts to adult services and the cuts to their group’s funding. It’s unlikely that they will have any support workers in a month or two, so they feel that all their efforts will have been in vain.

Another chap, a wheelchair-user, told me he had been to a consultation where he had been asked to prioritise the services that matter most to him – how could he choose between someone to wash & dress him or visits to the day centre for social interaction or respite care, so his carer could take a short break?

Time is running out my friend. If we don’t do something and quickly, it will be too late.

Ivo

“I’m not really following your drift here – Sunny seems to have gone out of his way to stress that this is NOT about networking and debate, even if these are activities that him and Laurie would otherwise be found doing.”

My drift is…first, Sunny could stress that the sky was blue and I’d start to doubt the fact; second…just how many ‘progressive internet alliances’ has Sunny fronted up by now?..this sure as hell isn’t the first…is anyone keeping score?…how did the others work out exactly?..and the common denominator?..erm..Sunny Hundal. So just what might a reasonable person deduce from this? I’d say a reasonable conclusion might be that Sunny Hundal and ‘progressive internet alliances’ are a bit of a non-starter…but how can that be?…well I hate to break it to you, but outside the confines of Liberal Conspiracy’s little self-congratulatory bubble, Mr Hundal is widely regarded as a bit of a self-serving joke..you don’t believe me?..shop around and open your eyes

…but this time it’s different…honest…cos Sunny says so…right.

“I think your problem is more with what Sunny and Laurie represent to you – aspiration, self-promotion ”

Yes…and self-delusion and a wild degree of thrift where honesty and integrity are concerned…the thing I can’t work out is why anyone on here would continue to take them seriously…but I’m also appalled at the quality of their writing, the absence of rational conclusions, the ‘media whoredom’ but above all the lack of consistency.

“And your definition of ‘the left’ doesn’t include these things, so you appoint yourself the righteous voice of the ‘true’ left, and cast them as ‘fakers’.”

I don’t appoint myself anything…I simply judge as I find…but yes, I cast them as fakers…don’t you?

“Surely this is just the sort of sectarian division – old left, new left, authentic left, whatever – that tends to paralyse most attempts to rally the left?”

a reasonable point..but one that was thrown at me repeatedly when laying into New Labour…was I wrong?

dave bones

“haha very good. Well done. Very funny. haha.”

How funny would you find find it knowing the £50000 which might have given your mother a new hip or kidney or functioning boiler was instead diverted to a bunch of ultra-smug new-age middle class poseurs so they could congratulate each other on saving the polar bears with a piece of junk that would never recover its costs but gave them a warm fuzzy glow and let them sneer condescendingly at the rest of us?

Larry

“Dangleberry, you’re taking yourself altogether more seriously than your brainless ranting deserves.”

Dangleberry? ooh, that hurts…OK..erm… shit for brains…how about convincing me just why it’s brainless?

Here’s the assertion again: Schemes like this tend to fail because anyone with a functioning set of critical faculties is put off by the personalities involved. Sunny and Laurie Penny dispense with coherent argument and spend their time wrapped up in self-promotion, deliberate ersatz contrarianism and inconsistent posturing whose aim is to further their own agenda; their own agenda being their self-advancement. That’s my case…argue against it.

“You’re not ‘criticising’ anyone, you’re showering Sunny and Laurie with witless personal abuse. And then you demand that your string of insults be treated a serious critique.”

Well, I am criticising them..and you now, as it goes. I’m criticising them for their dishonesty and I’m criticising you for responding to what you laughably claim to be mindless personal abuse with what looks suspiciously like mindless personal abuse. Come on Larry boy..this is liberal conspiracy…you haven’t even brought up strawmen…astroturfing…sock puppetry…what’s wrong with you?

Skooter

“42 & 44 have hit the nail invent head here. Ambition and notoriety are an anathema to the far left and therefore render any areguement ppl of that ilk advance as void, populist and cop out. Rather than hit the campaign trail and try to convince ppl of their own point of view it is far easier to attack, with vitriol, those views they dislike. Opinionated and self righteuos comes to mind?”

How the fuck do you know what I get up to?..and as far as ‘campaign trails’ go…when people start knocking on doors, where exactly will Sunny and Laurie be? Don’t tell me…masterminding the whole thing from a keyboard?…sending inspirational tweets?..speaking truth to power?…which is no doubt only right given the heft of their joint intellects…and particularly given Sunny’s experience in campaigns like this..what happened to his last ‘progressive alliance’ again?..oh yeah..total flop, and ending with his backing of Clegg et al…do you wonder he’s a fuckin joke?

…oh yeah..but this time it’s different..cos…what was it again?

@39 hi sorry just got back in from work so my response has been delayed.

1) that is much clearer and it would have been better if you had said it that way rather than your previous posts. I wouldn’t have had much to say if it was phrased
In such a way to say netroots might be damaged because of said reason.

2) I appologise I should have separated the question from the writing, I’ve been using my phone which means the presentation is a bit difficult to organise, still getting used to it. Thank you for your explanation I can just see our perspectives are slightly different. I will accept for the sake of argument that your belief about netroots is exactly how it is, my premise is that as long as the event doesn’t reduce labour support, attacking it only gives amunition to the argument that we are a fractured angry left. Calm criticism helps prevent that. In the end the PR war is vitally important and framing the opposition in a particular way can be very damaging. I also don’t disagree with self promotion, in a representative democracy where we vote for a single representative every MP has to self promote, you can’t do it any other way in this system. I extend this idea to every political organisation, generally without figure heads of some sort they generally don’t have a focus. it might be annoying sometimes, but that is the system we have, and you have to beat it before you can change it.

Monkeyfish

Right, but this isn’t some sort of Sunny Hundal personality cult. He’s had a hand in organising this thing and wrote a couple of blogs to raise its profile. That’s it. The overall aim – to effectively oppose the cuts – is the important thing. If you agree with the aim, then you could use your polemics to persuade those who don’t.

@48 my previous comment was written without seeing this post, please disregard my comment about saying your phrasing was better as it has deteriorated again into emotive ad homemims. I can see that your personal dislike of sunny means that any good he could do would be framed by you in a negative way to justify your dislike. I thought it might be otherwise, however there is little reason to attempt further discussion. Shame.

Monkeyfish you clearly get up to fuck all except spout fire and brimstone at anyone actually having a go. You have mentioned a lot of Sunnys failures in the past yet you offer no specifics and evidence of failure?

What do you offer as a viable alternative? Where can us dumb arses be enlightened with a movement that doesn’t just talk shite but actually moves and motivates? And don’t just spout trotsky or Marx ideology.

“1) that is much clearer and it would have been better if you had said it that way rather than your previous posts. I wouldn’t have had much to say if it was phrased
In such a way to say netroots might be damaged because of said reason.”

No..that’s what I was saying from the start.

11.37am

“How can the left appeal to anybody when its supposed figureheads are careerist showboaters with a track-record the likes of Sunny’s.”

“People will look at Netroots, see his name and turn away in droves…and as for Laurie Penny, so desperate to play the victim, so willing to write contrarian shite to order just to get noticed, the poor little rich girl searching frantically for any trace of a credential or two which places her among the dispossessed…stomach turning”

12.41pm

“step 1: purge your campaign of opportunist careerists”

1.51pm

“I’m here to persuade people that Suuny Hundal is a harmful addition to any campaign…in fact, his inclusion, is my major reason for disparaging Netroots…although Penny and Toynbee don’t exactly fill me with any great confidence either.”

seems fairly clear to me…which bit caused the confusion?

“I extend this idea to every political organisation, generally without figure heads of some sort they generally don’t have a focus.”

well I don’t disagree..but for me Hundal and Penny are a step too far..too intent on self-promotion and ultimately having little or nothing to offer except arrogance and a sense of entitlement.

54. Chaise Guevara

I’m late to this thread, but… well done, Sunny. You’ve got your sensible head on. Protest is needed and you’re going the right way about it. More power to you.

55. Chaise Guevara

@36 Mason

“all I hope is that the NHS is fixable once they are out of power.”

It will be. Oh, they’ll fuck it up, but the NHS has phenonomal bouncebackability. Mostly because, despite personal annoyances, people seem to be justly proud of the NHS and what it’s achieved.

56. Dave Mason

@55 you know what, thats just what I needed to hear, cheers Chaise 🙂

48. monkfish

hahahaha hohohohoho heeheeheehee

keep em coming

are people here taking you seriously? Excuse me if I don’t bother AT ALL.

hang on..

every political organisation, generally without figure heads of some sort they generally don’t have a focus.”

well I don’t disagree

why not monkfish? Who are your figure heads? Who do you rate as your leader?

47. MsChin

Thanks for your follow up comment I missed it in my inbox.

Yup there is an issue with the height of windfarms whch is being addressed by making two smaller rather than one larger tower- if I remember rightly, have to contact Cookpole to get exact info.

I only went to one of their meetings. it occurred to me that as the area used to have at least 200 beautiful classic windmills I couldn’t see any reason why they shouldn’t rebuild all of them for power. Even if they are less efficient surely 2 less efficient is better than one eyesore.

As far as all the services you mention, I think there are cooperative organisations which are trying self empowered cooperative take over to all that and more. I would definitely add old peoples homes. Taking the for profit companies out of all these areas and replacing them with employees accountable to the membership rarely fails to be better value for money.

Taking the for profit organisations out of old peoples homes is the big one really. Frees up HUGE amounts of pension fund money and only pisses off a very few misers driving Bentleys.

These are not my personal interest areas, but it is all big picture stuff. The same principle applies to all of it. There are tons of Labour MPs who are members of the cooperative movement. They did fuck all about it whilst they were in power. Grant Shapps (Con housing minister) showed a lot of interest in community land trusts etc whilst in opposition. Lets see what he does now. I am looking into these principals applied to large scale housing in London.

I have no idea if Netroots are into this or not. This is the first I have heard of them. As you say time is of the essence, if I find relevant links I will send them your way.

Personally I don’t care anymore who is in government. I am totally results based and I think that is the best way to work.

#every political organisation, generally without figure heads of some sort they generally don’t have a focus.”

well I don’t disagree

why not monkfish? Who are your figure heads? Who do you rate as your leader?#

Why would “I” have a leader?…do you consider me to be a ‘political organisation’?…nice of you to think so Mr Bones…but, as it happens, I’m just an individual…who happens to be completely turned off by an political movement which prominently features Sunny Hundal…and even more so by earnest middle-class fantasists who want to set up utopian eco-zones in the middle of Suffolk…although, actually, that’s not completely true; I’d have nothing against them at all if they did so without using lottery funding…mind, I’d be happy if they took that £50000 and donated it towards a new Nuclear power station…especially if was right on their doorstep…it’d make far more sense that way…and it might convince me that there was more to them than a little right-on clique trying to live out some bucolic Thomas Hardy ethos.

Btw Bones…who would you be prepared to follow? Capn Kirk? Sarah Lucas? The Jolly Green Giant? George ‘Our Glorious Leader’ Monbiot?

hahahaha
hohoho
heeheehee

etc

etc

etc

Nuclear power industry? Suffolk? on the doorstep? Surely not.

Hang on WHAT THE FUCK IS THIS???? I CAN FUCKIN SEE THAT FROM HERE!!!!

Not done as much research as the quick glance you had at cookpole’s energy action site obviously 🙂

btw I have absolutely no idea if Sunny Hundal wants to be a leader, is a leader or would ne a good leader. never met the guy.

You said you didn’t disagree that organisations without leaders generally didn’t have a focus. Which means that you think organisations should have leaders. I was asking you therefore, which organisations you are in/support and which leaders you think are good examples of leadership.

Capn Kirk- Very good

Sarah Lucas- No idea who she is

The Jolly Green Giant- Excellent I like sweetcorn

George ‘Our Glorious Leader’ Monbiot- err… Is he a candidate? I don’t think so

Not into leaders myself. We have a chairman but as most of what he does involves mediating our squabbles in a very financially healthy seemingly recession proof cooperative.

@47. MsChin

Talking to people in real life means engaging with them on issues that matter to them, face to face.

Please don’t believe those above trying to paint this event as some kind of elitist nonsense.

Conversation and discussion was firmly focussed on precisely the issues you raise: both on how to campaign against them and on how to convince the wider print and television media to run stories sympathetic to the victims of the cuts. There was also a substantial presence from disability rights activist.

I work in a deprived area where internet connectivity isn’t really happening, due to the cost of getting on-line. There is also a body of research evidence that older people and the disabled are both digitally and socially excluded.

This was a frequent topic of conversation as well but it has to be said that those who are not online are not excluded from the consequences of people who have the luxury of being so using that privilege to help them.

The purpose of this meeting broadly was to discuss how the tools provided by the internet can be used to effect social change and mobilise people against the cuts by using online activity as a first step towards change in the real, physical world.

Whatever one thinks personally of the people involved in organising this, it was an event open to anyone, very reasonably priced (£5 which included a brown bag lunch, coffee, water, etc) and although this first event was held in London future events are planned for elsewhere in the UK for people for whom travel would have been expensive and inconvenient. Moreover as many of the discussions and speeches as possible were recorded and will be shared online for free later.

Thank you for taking the time to comment with serious concerns and questions on this post.

I think from what you have written above that you might have enjoyed it and found it worthwhile. I hope you find the time to watch some of the videos when they are put up later and continue to share your observations and concerns.

64. windmills'R'Us

@52 ‘You have mentioned a lot of Sunnys failures in the past yet you offer no specifics and evidence of failure?’

I can help you out there –

“Sunny Hundal was the founder and editor of the now defunct Asians in Media website.He also set up the now defunct Barfi Culture community website. Both of these websites were instrumental in establishing Hundal’s credentials as a commentator on British Asian identity politics. In 2006 he was one of the founder members of the now defunct New Generation Network, a short-lived group and manifesto that attempted to challenge the current discourse on race relations in the UK.”

Two things stand out – the number of organizations he founded which were short-lived and are now defunct, and the fact that nevertheless he has now ‘established his credentials’. As what?, I’m tempted to ask.

I will follow with interest the progress of netroots, and look forward to the various high-profile media personalities working tirelessly in the background at grassroots level and shunning the media attention that such sterling work would otherwise bring them.

@64

Do you suggest that just because some things are not instant successes ppl should give up trying? I suggest you take a look over at left foot forward to see how netroots is is being recieved, unless of course you consider Will Staw a middle class phoney also?

Oh dear, I go away for one day and the site gets hijacked with some frustrated dickhead Trot who wants to oust anyone out of his movement of one. Nice.

I have a revolutionary idea – if you don’t like me, then please fuck off to another blog where you can avoid reading this site and continue slagging me off. Don’t attend the events. Vote with your feet – piss off.

63. Tim Hardy

there is a summary somewhere or any links to blogging about this?

@63

I look forward to seeing you Netrootsnorth, if that’s going to happen and if I can afford the bus fare 😉

@68. dave bones

If you keep on eye on the netrootsuk site I think it should be updated with videos etc once they’ve been processed. Search also for links shared through twitter using hashtag #netrootsuk

Hopefully most of the best will find themselves linked from this site too.

Ideally an event like this will lead to continuing discussion online until the next one.

Let me know what interests you in particular and if I come across anything related to it I’ll share it here.

@72. MsChin

I’d like that! I’ll start saving up for my bus fare now 😉

Just in case I gave the wrong impression, I should stress that I was just a paying visitor to the event and nothing to do with those who worked extremely hard to organise it.

Cheers Tim I am too OCD already to start that tweeting malarkey. Will keep an eye out for the videos. And good luck. Its easy to be cynical its hard to change eh.

@71. dave bones

Thanks Dave. My pleasure. You’re dead right: cynicism is the easy option. I know exactly what you mean about twitter. I stopped using it about six months ago for similar reasons (it encouraged me to get obsessive about checking, updating, etc) and I’m very wary of starting to use it again, however useful it might be.

There are some excellent links detailed on this very site at the bottom of another post:

http://liberalconspiracy.org/2011/01/09/we-have-to-embrace-our-differences-when-opposing-cuts-netrootsuk/#comments

A longer version of the post is at:

http://www.nextleft.org/2011/01/there-will-be-more-than-one-alternative.html

I’m also looking forward to the videos so I can catch up on some of the sessions I missed because they were at the same time as the ones I attended.


Reactions: Twitter, blogs
  1. Liberal Conspiracy

    My introduction at Netroots UK today http://bit.ly/dZmNZq

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    RT @libcon: My introduction at Netroots UK today http://bit.ly/dZmNZq

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    For all those running late, here's the intro to #netroots by @libcon http://bit.ly/dZmNZq

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    RT @libcon: My introduction at Netroots UK today http://bit.ly/dZmNZq

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    My introduction at Netroots UK today | Liberal Conspiracy http://bit.ly/hGSkMr

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    My introduction at Netroots UK today | Liberal Conspiracy http://goo.gl/CvJRn

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