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Media laps up Muslims Against Crusades stunt


8:45 am - November 12th 2010

by Sunny Hundal    


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You may have heard of the professional extremist Muslim agitator Anjem Choudhary.

Over the years he has set up various front-groups such as Al-Muhajiroun, Al-Ghuraaba and Islam4UK.

The latest one is called Muslims Against Crusades.

These were the same people who threatened to march in Wootton Basset against British soldiers, throwing the entire media go into a frenzy, before backing out at the last minute.

Yesterday they organised another stunt. They called up various media outlets and told them that they would be burning Red Poppies.

You can probably guess what happens next: once again the media has gone into a frenzy of outrage.

Is there any other group of 40 extremists who are given so much publicity? I can’t think of one.

All they have to do is issue a press release and there’s a media scrum.

And of course, there’s the resulting outrage against all British Muslims.

Someone set up a page on Facebook Page yesterday titled: ‘Let’s show these poppy burning bastards how many people want them deported‘ (it seems to have been taken down now) – with about a quarter of a million people joining within hours.

The way the media laps up this minuscule group of publicity-hungry idiots is beyond absurd.

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About the author
Sunny Hundal is editor of LC. Also: on Twitter, at Pickled Politics and Guardian CIF.
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Reader comments


And they did all of that without the violence and wanton destruction of the student protest, which goes to show that you can get plenty of media interest without rioting.

They should have been arrested at the very beginning then they wouldnt have got the publicity and Millions of British people wouldnt have been offended. Its now time for the Law to get tough with these insects and its also time for senior Muslim leaders to be more strong in their condemnation of this ignorant minority.

@2 agreed, it’s not the media’s job to straighten these nutters out.

You won’t see Sunny calling on the Muslim community as a whole to sort this out. It doesn’t fit his agenda.

“The Truth”: “You won’t see Sunny calling on the Muslim community as a whole to sort this out.”

No, because Muslims don’t have their own laws or their own police force. They can no more stop Anjem Choudary’s big mouth than you. If Muslims “sorted this out” it would have to be via illegal vigilante action – I don’t know, perhaps he could be locked up in an improvised cell in a mosque basement or something until he promised to shut up. But something tells me the anti-Muslim crew wouldn’t be too pleased about that in practice.

Mainstream Muslim organisations have actually condemned Choudary’s various activities repeatedly (have a look at their websites), it’s just that you apparently choose not to hear or see such condemnations. Maybe they don’t fit your agenda.

They should have been arrested at the very beginning then they wouldnt have got the publicity and Millions of British people wouldnt have been offended.

Hang on – arresting people so that others needn’t be offended? I think you’re going to need a better rationale than that.

I reckon M.A.C next thing will be to bomb the mosques.

I am proud to live in a country that extends freedom of speech and assembly to complete nutters (who ironically wouldn’t have that same kind of freedom in the society that they propagate).

7 – agreed.

I despise these people and what they stand for but to lock them up for being complete dicks would lower ourselves to their level.

9. Mitchell Stirling

I reckon M.A.C next thing will be to bomb the mosques.

Or put a bomb on a crow.

10. George McLean

“Is there any other group of 40 extremists who are given so much publicity? I can’t think of one.”

How about the TaxPayers’ Alliance?

11. Adam Weishaupt

Wow. These people sound like the UK equivalent of the Phelps family here in the states, down to protesting vets.

On behalf of the USA, I apologize for infecting your country with this sort of stupidity.

‘Hang on – arresting people so that others needn’t be offended? I think you’re going to need a better rationale than that.’

Exactly. The correct response to the poppy burning is mockery, not fines or imprisonment. It’s not the State’s job to protect your feelings.

To be fair, the media reports I’ve seen mentioned how few (about 30-40) there were in this protest. And the fact they were outnumbered by a (peaceful, so I presume UAF forgot to turn up) EDL counterprotest says something.

Personally I think what we should do is all turn up to their protests and point at them and laugh, perhaps making fun of their silly ideas. And in this case, all wear poppies, obviously. Make it clear that society (the only option we have – there is no seperate Muslim society, however much Mr Choudary may wish for one) finds them laughable and doesn’t think they are serious.

Personally I think what we should do is all turn up to their protests and point at them and laugh, perhaps making fun of their silly ideas.

It’s a reasonable idea, but I’m not sure they’re worth the effort. They’re attention whores, and (to paraphrase Milhouse Van Outen) ridicule is a form of attention.

I’m not normally one for the “ignore them and they’ll go away” line of thought, but in this case, I think it’s probably true.

@13 – Or just turn up and burn the quran. Whats good for the goose is good for the gander

We need to have a bacon butty vendor turn up whenever they try to stage one of their inflammatory protests. Maybe a few folks carrying placards adorned with those infamous Danish cartoons as well.

cjcjc, well those guys burning the Koran in Gateshead are idiots too.
As the Telegraph article says, it is on Youtube – and peoople have been arrested over it.

They were talking about this on the blokish ‘white van man’ Talk Sport radio late last night, and the presenter took the opinion like the opening post does – that they are a small unrepresentative group of idiots best ignored …… but he did say that he thought that the police treated them more leniently than they would the EDL for example, because they were scared to get rough with them, and that the officers in charge would ‘flap about’ a bit and not be sure what to do at first.

I think there is something in what the radio presenter said.

I feel sorry for these protestors just as I feel sorry for the London Bombers and their loved ones and the people they murdered.

For centuries our ruling elite in London (and more recently in Wall Street) have exploited the East for profit and imported millions of people from the East when it`s perfectly obvious we haven`t proper work or decent homes for the indigenous underclass here far less for incomers.

Asia feels used and insulted by these centuries of greedy exploitation and I can quite understand young British Asians feeling angry about their poor opportunities and living conditions and all the drivel that is talked about spreading freedom and democracy and the war on terror when any fool can see that we have been happy to support the most odious repressive regimes if they allow us to exploit their countries….and still do.

Our soldiers and young disaffected asian people have an equal right to protest about the murderous torturing elite that runs the world through the global financial system without giving a damn about any of us ordinary people.

20. Chaise Guevara

3

“You won’t see Sunny calling on the Muslim community as a whole to sort this out. It doesn’t fit his agenda.”

What an excellent point. I’m still waiting for the white men of Britain, as one, to stand up and apologise for the Yorkshire Ripper.

I think Anjem Choudhary should be followed by a Chris Morris-style comedian mocking his every statement. That might restore some “balance” to the media debate.

22. Chaise Guevara

@ 22

“In this new report, Anjem Choudhary’s statement is read by an actor using a sarcastic voice and belming with all his might.”

23. Chaise Guevara

Arrgh! Every freakin’ time!

@ 21, obviously.

@22 that’s the kinda thing. or maybe someone dressed as a butcher interviewed saying those “butchers of basra” signs are a damn sight insulting…

25. status update : update status

whilst Anjem Choudhary is a fool and I wish he would go away, I think this man has great media skills. Skills that,say, Max Clifford would be proud of. Though seriously I wish he would just go away.

@9 though we could blow up the internet.

26. Chaise Guevara

@ 24

Hell, let’s just get them to sign up to the Party Against People Who Say Anything Offensive To Anyone, Ever and then wait for the penny to drop.

27. Chaise Guevara

@ 25

“though we could blow up the internet.”

Easy enough. Just type ‘Google’ into Google. It’s just like dividing by zero.

For a moment there I thought that Liberal Conspiracy had abandoned its usual editorial line on religion and was going to publish something criticising Muslims rather than Catholics.

Then it turned into a moan about how unfair it is that the media publicise an extreme and unrepresentative minority in order to whip up hatred against a faith group.

I might agree with this point if it wasn’t for the sheer hypocrisy when it appears on a website perfectly willing to publicise extreme minorities if they are Catholic:

http://liberalconspiracy.org/2010/09/17/the-conference-that-says-the-earth-is-flat/

29. Just Visiting

Spot on Old Andrew.

LC’s bias is wider than just catholics – having got itself into a lather over a very minority USA based Pastor Jones – highly criticised because he threatened to burn some Qurans.

As you say, LC, and several of it’s key posters, have form in their hypcritical treatment of muslim issues vs christian ones.

I had an interesting email exchange wth Sunny, which maybe goes some way to explain this bias.

He raised the IRA as an exact analogue of islamic terrorists: but when I pointed out the IRA were essentially Marxists, never quoted the words of Jesus or used the bible in their statements – that they were fighting for political ends not religious ones:

His response was that islamic terrorists are in fact entirely politically motivated, and just use religion as a veneer and excuse to generate support.

!

(pretty hard to explain the level of Qu’ran quoting and Allah focus these guys profess)

It struck me that this was maybe Sunny making a mistake we all make from time to time: we assume that the other person is ‘like us’ and must therefore be driven by the same motives.

Thus, being himself motivated primarily on political grounds and not at all on religious ones – he assumes that Islamic extremists are too: he can’t imagine that Islam and Islamic theology comes first as their driver.

30. Chaise Guevara

@ 29

“LC’s bias is wider than just catholics – having got itself into a lather over a very minority USA based Pastor Jones – highly criticised because he threatened to burn some Qurans.”

I can’t remember whether or not it appeared in the article, but in the comments thread for that story I believe there was a lot of talk about how the media were the most to blame for making it into an international story in the first place – pretty much the same point being made here. There is a tendency in Britain to criticise Christians quicker than people of other faiths, and I agree with you that LC is guilty of this, but I wouldn’t go so far as to suggest it’s an anti-Christian mouthpiece.

I wish the media would give the other extreme of poppy related “stories”.

“pro” poppy appeal (allegedly) the English Defense League have created an enamel pin badge incorporating the poppy and the English flag. They say the poppy is not copyrighted and they will make a small donation to the British Legion from the sales of their pins.

Of course, if they were true patriots they would tell all their supporters to by a genuine poppy from genuine poppy outlets so ALL the cash went to our veterans.

Not much in the wy of media frenzy at the hijack of the poppy there though, is there?

Should these eejits be allowed anywhere near Whitehall tomorow?
I’m usually for free speech, but if they are spotted before 11am and the two minutes silence, I think it would be fair to frog-march them out of the area and kettle them somewhere, as shouting and screaming through the ceremony is pushing things too far I think. Why can’t they just be nicked for breach of the peace?

@29 “LC’s bias is wider than just catholics – having got itself into a lather over a very minority USA based Pastor Jones – highly criticised because he threatened to burn some Qurans.”

Well, I don’t really agree with your overall anti – christian bias hypothesis but I have to say, you’re making a valid point here. Small group of muslim extremist loonies engage in distasteful behaviour which gets a lot of coverage = media bias against muslims whereas small group of christian extremist loonies engage in distasteful behaviour which gets a lot of coverage = fair enough, apparently.

Also

“I had an interesting email exchange wth Sunny, which maybe goes some way to explain this bias.

“He raised the IRA as an exact analogue of islamic terrorists: but when I pointed out the IRA were essentially Marxists, never quoted the words of Jesus or used the bible in their statements – that they were fighting for political ends not religious ones:

His response was that islamic terrorists are in fact entirely politically motivated, and just use religion as a veneer and excuse to generate support.

!

(pretty hard to explain the level of Qu’ran quoting and Allah focus these guys profess)”

seems almost spot on – I don’t want to start an argument which sidetracks the thread, but the Provisional IRA were/are not a marxist organisation. The Official IRA, INLA and other organisations could be said to be “marxist” or, at least to have marxist roots, but it’s not an accurate description of PIRA. You’re absolutely right about their political, rather than religious, motivation, though.

What Sunny fails to mention is the BBC completely blanked the poppy burning story.There was massive public interest, as Sunny says, so why did the BBC do that? I will leave you to make your own mind up.

I also have to laugh at Sunny’s naiveté again. Bunch of religious fascists go poppy-burning near WW2 veterans and he’s almost surprised people are furious. Could it be he suddenly realises that large parts of the country have different values to him?

‘And of course, there’s the resulting outrage against all British Muslims.’

Total bollocks. Weasel words. Muslim fascists are the problem, not people against poppy-burning.

35. Chaise Guevara

Yes tory. Bigotry against minority groups has never been a problem for anyone, ever. Well done.

36. Just Visiting

Chaise

30

There is a tendency in Britain to criticise Christians quicker than people of other faiths, and I agree with you that LC is guilty of this, but I wouldn’t go so far as to suggest it’s an anti-Christian mouthpiece.

Sounds like you’d agree it’s been anti-christian then ?

If you look back, you’ll see there is a trend of often defending Muslims, but not extending the same courtesy to christians.

Eg last week Dave Osler – was willing to deplore what a Muslim knife attacker (Roshonara Choudhrys) had done, but then to somehow say their motivation was acceptable, and to blame British society:

> why …the only obvious answer is ideologically-fuelled political anger…If British society has alienated a layer of Muslim youth to that degree – and it appears to have done…

Tho actually, he seems to be making the same mistake I referred above to Sunny making: Dave being a political animal can’t imagine a religious motivation for the woman, despite her own words!

So for him the ‘obvious answer’ is that she was politically motivated.

37. Just Visiting

Actually, that transference of ones own motives onto other people – also explains Sunny’s recent more aggressive and partisan dissing of the motives of LC posters he brackets as Tories’: because his own motives have become more extreme too.

I can never work out whether the “oooh, but you’re biased against *Christians*” brigade are being disingenuous or actually don’t get the point.

The UK is a majority-Christian culture. Most people in the UK, even atheists and agnostics, are of Christian descent and were raised in a Christian society.

So in a UK context, an attack on Christianity and Christian institutions is clearly *actually* an attack on those beliefs and institutions.

Attacking other religions is more problematic, because it rapidly moves from attacking institutions and beliefs into attacking *the minority groups who are associated with that religion*.

People don’t ask white Britons of Christian descent to apologise for every piece of nuttiness propagated by people who call themselves Christians – because we all know they’re just a few nutters who aren’t representative of anything.

But many people (e.g. comment #2 here) do ask brown Britons of Muslim descent to apologise for every piece of nuttiness propagated by people who call themselves Muslims – presumably because they’re ignorant enough not to realise that they’re just a few nutters who aren’t representative of anything.

And that’s why it’s reasonable to report on nutty Christians as “haha, those nutty Christians”, whereas reporting on nutters of other faiths requires more care.

I wonder what percentage of these muslim agitators are on benefits, milking “Great” Britain’s proverbial teet…….

No Islam……….no problem.

40. Just Visiting

John b 38

You’ve lost me there.
Your logic seems flawed.

You’re saying;
i) it’s ok to attack _today’s_ christians specifically in a more aggressive manner than individuals of other faiths
ii) the reason that you find the above OK, is just because christianity played a key role in the _past_ of the UK?

41. Chaise Guevara

@ 40

He has a point, actually.

Before I say what I’m going to say, I should point out that I don’t think that a certain class of people (most people on this site, self included) are too quick to mock or condemn ridiculous or extremist Christians, I think they’re too slow to do the same to Muslims of that ilk. It’s not that Christians are being unfairly criticised, it’s that we tend to jump to find excuses for Muslims who behave anti-socially (again, self included).

So: what he’s saying is that the disparity in this case is similar to the way that jokes about men are a lot less politically dangerous than jokes about women. You are less likely to get in trouble for implying that men are stupid than implying that women are stupid. This isn’t because society holds men in contempt, it’s because women were formerly oppressed and nobody wants to look that unreconstructed.

This is similar to the Muslim/Christian thing because Muslims are seen as being part of the official Evil Empire by some people. Those who dislike Muslims often don’t stop at criticising them or stereotyping them: they call for them to be deported and their religion banned. “No Islam,” as some charmer says above, “no problem.” Moderates don’t want to be associated with these people, understandably, and overcompensate as a result. It’s the same instinct that makes people think that ‘African American’ is preferable to ‘black’ even though nobody uses ‘European American’ as a euphemiusm for ‘white’.

As far as I’m concerned, this isn’t a justification for this attitude, more an explanation of why it exists. We feel safer taking the piss out of Christianity on an instinctive level: morally it’s the same as taking the piss out of Muslims. Think that’s accurate?

i am not a muslim person, i am Cof E. I do not condemn these people!!! the reason that they are protesting is because people in Iraq and Afghanistan are being killed raped and tortured by British and US troops. if any of us were in that situation and lived in another country whos troops were regularly causing hell on earth for family members / friends (CIVIL LIONS) i think i would be protesting too!!! maybe burning the popy wasnt the best idea but it obviously got them noticed !!! i was unaware of the situation in afghanistan untill this and i decided NOT too listen to the racist right winged opinion of the daily mail or the sun and research it myself!!! i found videos of young boys being beaten on youtube and an english man laughing and mocking it obviously gaining some satisfaction at watching pain being inflicted upon these children!!! the uproar that there has been about this poppy is UNBELIEVABLE …especially from a country that trys to cover up what the brittish are doing in other countries to innocent people !!! nobody has been killed by these protesters … and their cause is totally worth it … the people who have commented on this about it being disgusting !!! is playing right into the hands of the media !!! it is just pure RACISM!!!!!!

oh yeah and larry wat the hell has benifits got to do with anything ???? you seriously need to look at the whole picture ‘mate’ and recognise that your stereotypical view of Muslims is probably due to ur own underachievement in life!!!! DONT USE PEOPLE AS SCAPE GOATS!!!! this would be completely different if the tables was turned and it was ur family!!!! its so easy to blame the immigrents or the minority group this is pathetic !!!!! x

Hi julie21. It’s not possible to be THAT stupid, is it?

i think we should catch them and burn a koran in fron of them that will teach them a lesson, the dirty *******, if they feel so strongly about being muslim f**K off and go to a muslim contry and take the rest with you !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

28

“For a moment there I thought that Liberal Conspiracy had abandoned its usual editorial line on religion and was going to publish something criticising Muslims rather than Catholics.”

I missed this comment at the time, and whilst I feeding trolls is often pointless, can we for once and for all nail this delusion you have that this site has an anti-Catholic bias, and/or is more likely to criticise Catholicism than Islam or any other of the many made up rag bags of superstition, prejudice and hysteria that infect the human race?

You trotting out the same whiney complaint every time religion is dicussed doesn’t make it any more convincing. If people of any faith (or indeed none) do something worth criticising there are plenty of people on here to do it.

The earlier thread you posted doesn’t support you case at all: it isn’t an example of being “perfectly willing to publicise extreme minorities if they are Catholic”. The original thread was rubbishing a bunch of wing nuts who think the earth is flat, and progressed on to the manifest failings of the Catholic church.

As has frequently been pointed out to you in the past, it isn’t about being anti-Catholic except in your paranoid world view; it’s about criticising institutions where thay are at fault irrespective of which flavour of made up sky fairy they adhere to.

apathy…. what’s really stupid is the amount of people covering up and turning blind eyes to what is really going on in the world!!! i can understand it tho people just accept what is broardcast in papers like the daily mail and the sun but papers like that always tell half a story in order to create ‘folk devils’ (make people look bad)… does anybody here realy believe that single mothers are tax dodgers and the like??? because most single mothers are infact trying to hold down 2 jobs to support their family’s… yet newspapers such as these try to create bad people heres an example

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-402541/How-handouts-tempt-single-mothers.html

this is just one of many articles trying to create a folk devil because they think that the nuclear family is the right way to go!!! well its not fair on single mothers who have been left by there partners … or widowed it is completely stereotypical and unjust!!!!!

dan!!!
you obviously have some serious issues!!! what has being a muslim got to do with trying to stop innocent people being killed and tortured!!! the reason that they burned the poppy was because its there to honour people who have fought in wars since ww1 .. and they feel it is being misrepresented by some (not all) but some in Iraq and Afghanistan!!!

i can tell that you have very racist views and that is not good!!! you could scream till you were blue in the face about Muslims and how they should go back to ‘their own’ country but you just sound pathetic!!! this is 21st century Britain…. i have two young children and i will try hard not to let them become racist sexist etc and especially to keep them away from SCUM like YOU!!!

is this your country????? NO
would it be ok for you to move to austrailia??? YES because of the skin colour!!! that is what this boils down to!!!

but just to rain on your parade… everybody in the world has evolved from africa !!! everybody is the same regardless of skin colour, religon ect why does it mean that because its different it is wrong?? well its not!!!

i sincerely hope that you do not have children because its not fair on them to have to grow up in a house with a modern day HITLER !!!

oh and by the way if people think that this is not possible whats going on in Iraq and Afghanistan… just think about guantanimo bay were maltreatment is still going on!!! nobody new for years about that … do not take everything on face value that’s how idiots like DAN are created!!! and DAN let me just tell your a racist which means that you think your ethnic group is superior to other ethnic groups… this is almost laughable that a person this slow can seriously think he is better than somebody of a different ethnicity ha ha ha seriously get a sociology book and read whats realy goin on in the world …. stop being a puppet …or muppet !!!!!

If you want to establish something as a delusion it helps if you can come up with an argument against it rather than name-calling. All it would take for me to reconsider my belief that this site is anti-Catholic is to see a blog post about Islam, Hinduism or Buddhism that comes close to the sheer sectarian bile of this one about Catholics:

http://liberalconspiracy.org/2010/08/22/the-pope-the-irish/

Alternatively, if you want to admit that I’m right, feel free to just dodge this challenge and respond with more insults and assertions.

old and new is that comment to me??? i am not on hear about the anti-catholic stuff i was doing research on the MAC protesters when i came across this and was disgusted by the views and outright racist opinions or some people!!!! i can not stand opinionated people who see other peoples ways off life as being wrong, isnt that what happened with the transatlantic slave trade that was haw it was justified!!! … so in terms of anti-catholic stuff its each to their own another person has the right to believe what he or she wants without being bullied into not doing!!!

oh yeah and this mite be of intrest to all the people who dont think evil acts from brittish troops are real!!! look at these!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1xvqwUytcQc&has_verified=1

48

Speaking of dodging challenges is a bit rich coming from you oldandrew, as we’ve seen in previous posts re l’affaire Hoyos.

Nice try tho!

51,

Back to your conspiracy theories again?

52

Still avoiding the obvious I see?

How did it go translating the Hoyos radio broadcast? Not that you’d have had the guts of course… I mean, it was all part of my conspiracy theory wasn’t it?..LOL

Troll.

53,

Remind me again, why am I meant to be translating the evidence for *your* conspiracy theory?

54

Because you consistantly denied it existed, and when “owned” with direct evidence that it did, refused to believe it ‘cos it was in Spanish. The evidence is there in past threads.

You were exposed as a humbug then..and you haven’t changed.

“Because you consistantly denied it existed”

Denied what existed? The radio interview?

56

Oldandrew: on earlier threads you spent weeks rubbishing any claims that Hoyos had made statements attributed to him by reputable news agencies as “third hand” and genrallt specious. When presnted with a direct link to the Spanish language radio broadcast concerned, you were challenged then (and not only by me I recall) to put your money where your mouth was.

You didn’t do so, because it suited your denial that there was any story to do so.

You were ROUNDLY slapped down at the time by other posters for insisting that I should have the broadcast translated, tho I was happy to accept that the News Agencies aren’t all dupes.

Once a humbug, always a humbug. Come back when you’ve done what you should have months ago and satisfied yourself you were wrong.

I don’t know why I expected a straight answer to my question in comment 56…

The first Christian Crusade to the Holy Land was launched in 1096.

The Moors invaded Spain in 711.

58

What is so difficult to understand? It’s just more obfuscation on your part, which is obviously part of your modus operandi as chief cheerleader on LC for the catholic church, and its self appointed defender who trots out the fiction that this site is biased against Catholics, and has a double standard in the treatment of the Catholic church vis a vis other faiths.

You know quite well what you were asked to do on the previous threads, and you failed to do it, because you lacked the courage to do so. Again, par for the course as the evidence you were provided with undermined your case that there were no first hand sources for the allegation in the press about what Cardinal Hoyos said and did.

Your position was discredited, and you went very quiet about the matter afterwards… funny that eh?

“What is so difficult to understand?”

What it is I am supposed to have said didn’t exist.

Don’t worry about it now though, the rest of what you are posting suggests that whatever it was, it was probably a figment of your imagination.

“the fiction that this site is biased against Catholics, and has a double standard in the treatment of the Catholic church vis a vis other faiths”

I believe I pointed out earlier that if you truly believe that the double standard doesn’t exist then you will be able to find a blog post about Islam, Hinduism or Buddhism that comes close to the sheer sectarian bile of this one about Catholics:

http://liberalconspiracy.org/2010/08/22/the-pope-the-irish/

How’s that coming along?

61

You denied there was first hand direct evidence about the things attributed to Hoyos in the discussions on previous threads. This was provided to you. You had the chutzpah to suggest I had it translated, for which you were rightly ridiculed.

Your posting about point and link doesn’t prove the site is inherently biased against Catholics, apart from in your own head.

“You denied there was first hand direct evidence about the things attributed to Hoyos in the discussions on previous threads”

I denied that *you* had first or second hand evidence which supported your claims, and doubted that if your claims were supported by evidence then the media would have dropped the story immediately after the early reports based on a press agency report.

Now unless you have translated that interview then I would assume that this is still true, that you are still relying on 4th or 5th hand accounts and that you still have no explanation as to why the media conspired to cover-up a scandal involving the Pope.

john b @ 38

– presumably because they’re ignorant enough not to realise that they’re just a few nutters who aren’t representative of anything.

That “just a few” nutters and “tiny minority” of extremists stuff doesn’t fit with the 25% of British Muslims who told a Channel 4 pollster that they believed MI5 was behind 7/7 or the 45% who told NOP that 9/11 was down to a CIA/Mossad joint-op.

65. Chaise Guevara

@64

“That “just a few” nutters and “tiny minority” of extremists stuff doesn’t fit with the 25% of British Muslims who told a Channel 4 pollster that they believed MI5 was behind 7/7 or the 45% who told NOP that 9/11 was down to a CIA/Mossad joint-op.”

The fact that someone is prepared to buy into a stupid theory to avoid having to accept people of their religion did something awful is not proof that that person is an extremist. It’s just confirmation bias, in much the same way that the proportion of Americans who “believe” that Obama is a Muslim rises in inverse correlation with his popularity rating.

63

As was pointed out to you at the time, there is now a primary source for which you have a link. It is incumbent on you to have it translated, not me as you are the one who clings to the fanciful notion that the reputable news agencies who reported on the radio interview either got it wrong, lied about the content and/or are involved in some conspiracy.

The rest of your post is the usual claptrap you came out with before. It isn’t any more convincing now than it was then.

“there is now a primary source for which you have a link. It is incumbent on you to have it translated”

How do you know it is evidence for your claim if you haven’t translated it?

Oh wait, I forgot, I have to translate it for you in order to prove the evidence for your accusations doesn’t exist, rather than you actually having to have found some evidence before you started making allegations in the first place.

Incidentally, don’t you remember that last time round (or was it the time before?) you admitted the following: “I didn’t say that I believed the allegations were true…”?

Your devotion to promoting allegations which you don’t believe, and can’t translate the details of, is truly staggering.

67

Your memory is as short as your power of self delusion is strong.

I’ve never said the allegations were true, I’ve said they needed to be explained. We now have a direct Spanish language source, i.e. the Radio interview given by Castrillon Hoyos to Colombian radio. The fact that my Spanish isn’t up to a detailed translation is neither here nor there. Your claim that there was no first hand source has been exposed for the fantasy it always was.

Now that this leg of your argument is demolished, you fall back on the excuse that it still doesn’t count, because it’s in Spanish, any (for reasons only you seem to find convincing) we shouldn’t rely on the reports in news agencies of what was said. So presumably we should reject virtually ANY news we can’t guarantee was from a first hand source?

You have a vested interest as a shameless apologist for the Catholic church to try and bury this story. I on the other hand want answers, and that’s the difference. If Catrillon Hoyos’ allegations are true, we nedd answers from the Vatican about the Pope’s involvement. If they are false, he should be exposed for the liar he is.

“I’ve never said the allegations were true”

Obviously you did (and I seem to recall listing all the occasions on another comment), but if you believe that and can stick with it then excellent.

Presumably, you can now stop following me around the Liberal Conspiracy comment threads accusing me of all manner of personal failings for not believing those allegations and expecting people who do spread them to provide details?

69

If there’s anyone in denial it’s you, as has amply been demonstrated in previous threads.


Reactions: Twitter, blogs
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    Media falls for Muslims Against Crusades stunt again http://bit.ly/cWWzai

  2. thabet

    RT @libcon: Media falls for Muslims Against Crusades stunt again http://bit.ly/cWWzai

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    Handful of ludicrous Muslim usual suspects organise stunt, media and public give them everything they want http://bit.ly/cWWzai

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  15. Andy Bean

    RT @sunny_hundal: Does the British media give every small bunch of extremists as much attention as these Muslims? http://t.co/0jskjd0

  16. Shai

    RT @sunny_hundal: Does the British media give every small bunch of extremists as much attention as these Muslims? http://t.co/0jskjd0

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  18. Stewart Owadally

    RT @sunny_hundal: Does the British media give every small bunch of extremists as much attention as these Muslims? http://t.co/0jskjd0

  19. Shai

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    RT @sunny_hundal: Does the British media give every small bunch of extremists as much attention as these Muslims? http://t.co/0jskjd0

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    RT @sunny_hundal: Does the British media give every small bunch of extremists as much attention as these Muslims? http://t.co/0jskjd0

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    RT @sunny_hundal: Does the British media give every small bunch of extremists as much attention as these Muslims? http://t.co/0jskjd0

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    RT @sunny_hundal: Does the British media give every small bunch of extremists as much attention as these Muslims? http://t.co/0jskjd0

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