How many Scottish seats do the Lib Dems have?

YouGov has them on 5% in Scotland.

Scottish Parliament: 16 of 129 seats
UK Parliament: 12 of 59
European Parliament: 1 of 6

Nick Clegg showed his real colours in March 2010 when he said “I’m 43 now. I was at university at the height of the Thatcher revolution and I recognise now something I did not at the time, that her victory over a vested interest, the trade unions, was immensly significant’
Unsurprisingly, the lib dems lost Chesterfield in the election (aprrox 10 miles from Clegg’s Sheffield constituency) and an ex-mining area.
Although the lib dems didn’t really do that well with regard to gaining seats in the election, no doubt due to our electoral system, it’s surprising how many left-leaning people voted for them, and I mean those who had a keen awareness of current affairs and politics.
Over the next few years, the lib dems will lose even more support, and it woudn’t surprise anyone if Clegg lost his seat in view of the recent Forgemasters outrage. I wonder what the odds are for Clegg joining the tories, but he would have to move elsewhere, perhaps a nice safe seat in leafy Buckinghamshire.

3

“it’s surprising how many left-leaning people voted for them, and I mean those who had a keen awareness of current affairs and politics.”

Guilty as charged I suppose

In defence of “my people” however…. what other choice was open to us at the time?

I certainly didn’t vote for them with any great enthusiasm, but in the true blue shires, a vote for the LD’s was the only (usually not very realistic) prospect of getting a Tory out.

Voting New Labour? I don’t think so. I’ve seen precious little to make me think Newer Labour is sufficiently different to make me support them.

So…. where does that leave us exactly?

All I can come up with is a vague hope that the referendum for AV is successful, and that succeeding parliaments will somehow fracture the current deeply flawed political system. I wouldn’t bet my house on it though.

The Lib Dems are – not before time – disintegrating back to the Orange Book lump. This provides an opportunity seeing as the Tories wheeze and gasp just to get to 42-43% in the polls.

Labour should be able to stay on the Tories’ coat tails polling-wise even if it means hung parliament in 2015.

Of course a double dip and unemployment heading for four million may do for the Tories reputation and poll share what the banking crisis did for Labour.

If AV fails at the referendum, which it probably will, the next issue will be the intention of the Tories to gerrymander the constituency boundaries.

Galen

If I’ve told you once I’ve told you, well, once I guess.

If you absolutely can’t vote Labour – for whatever reason and as understandable as that might be – vote for the other party of the left.

The Greens!

It sure as hell beats voting for a right wing party – and over time gradually they are proving you can build from nothing if enough people make an effort to try.

6

Hmmnnnnnnn…maybe.

Not as if I’m spoilt for choice is it?

I won’t have to wear sandals and socks will I?

Galen – nah – helps if you are a student though.

LD & Greens joint last in Tower Hamlets Mayoralty election.

Gubbs

Was out campaigning there yesterday – Was always going to be an awful turnout. So many people in TH didn’t want a mayor anyway – and those people were never likely to then vote.

On top of that Labour politics there is such a joke that most people who aren’t Labour just can’t gain any traction.

@ 10 M4E

My second vote in LBTH didn’t count for much. I’m not sure AV is going to make me feel any better in the future.

10%? I am amazed it is high as that.

They must be an exceedingly stupid 10% or two faced lying sacks of shit just like their leader.

Gubbs

Have to say – I won’t be backing AV at the referendum. It is a weak reform proposed just to give a figleaf to the Lib Dem leadersip.

@ 13 M4E

I am trying to work out the where I stand on AV. I am comfortable with a PR system but don’t see that voting for AV is any progress towards that. At present it seems to me that AV is just a mechanism to ensure that the LD’s are more likely to have political influence. I don’t want that if they behave in the same way as they have done since May. I don’t trust the LD leadership and their seemingly worthless manifesto.

Why no forum for commenting on the fact that the cuts hit women hardest?

@ 15

Hello shirley,

The impact of the Libdem / Tory cuts upon women crops quite a lot up in these posts . You can also check out: The attack on Child Benefit is an attack on women, via the search along with other topics that may be of interest. I’m not aware of a general thread regarding the impact on women but if you care to generate an article that’s relevant, I’m sure Sunny H, the blog master of this site, will consider it for inclusion.

Gubbs

AV is pretty much FPTP for a three party system. While FPTP entrenches (mostly) two party politics because other parties can’t get traction – AV entrenches three party politcs because other parties can’t get traction.

Nothing principled or progressive about that. Just one party trying to serve its own interest against a backdrop of needing to justify getting nothing else from the coalition deal.

Margin4error:

I wouldn’t vote Green in 95+% of constituencies, as they aren’t even at the ‘I’ll vote for them to make them look vaguely viable next time around’ stage in most of the country. AV would mean people could vote with their heart, not tactically. In the first election or so it won’t make much of a difference, but in time AV will allow other parties to get seats.

And do you think there’s any chance of PR in the medium term if AV is voted down, ‘the people have spoken, they are happy with FPTP’ will be the constant rejoinder.

Well, aside from supporting popular established MPs, why would anyone vote Lib Dem at the moment?

Simon

There is no chance of PR anymore. Clegg sold that down the river with the deal and he knew it as he did it.

He knew the coalition deal made a vote on AV almost impossible to win and that even were it to scrape through, it would be reform enough for our largely disinterested public.

As for AV making the Greens a better long term prospect – you just, yourself, explained under FPTP why that doesn’t work.

Because people like you won’t take a long term view.

Hmm. Interesting.

My own view on what Nick Clegg should do next: http://politicalreboot.blogspot.com/2010/10/i-agree-with-nick-rip.html

21 Eddy

So your advice is basically that Clegg should stay the course, that he had no alternative than to enter the Coalition in the first place, and that the attacks on him are overkill and letting Cameron off the hook?

I reckon the only part of that I agree with is that Cameron is being let of the hook!! Clegg and the LD’s DID have an alternative, which would probably have been better both for the country in the long term, and his own party which was to let the Tories fail on their own.

If he had, the LD’s would have been in a much better position, he might have had a readier partner in Newer Labour, and might not have had to abandon so much of what the LD’s said they stood for!

Hi Galen10,

Yes, I’m afraid I do think Nick Clegg should stay the course. Regardless of whether it was right or wrong to join the Coalition, it would just be rocking the boat to pull out now. Take the issue of AV: here I think it is better for the party, and the country, that the Lib Dems stay on board for the long haul. It’s not the principle of the Coalition I agree with: it’s the lack of Lib Dem influence.

On alternative governments? I don’t think we can ever really know what might have happened if the Coalition had not been formed. You think a minority Cameron government would have been better? I agree that it would have been better for the Lib Dems, but not I’m so convinced the country as a whole would have benefited; decision-making might have ground to a halt. But again, we will never know.

I also don’t think a partnership between Labour and the Lib Dems was, or is, ever likely. Labour are too tribalist, and too cynical about other parties’ ideas. The general feeling towards the Lib Dems has always been one of distrust, and the Coalition probably hasn’t improved things much. What do you think?

23

I think Clegg and the LD’s are royally screwed to be honest. He and his leadership sold their party cheap: no major cabinet positions, an iffy AV promise, and now as we see all too obviously very little actual influence over real policy.

As you say, we’ll never know about the “what if” scenarios, but like may I feel pretty nauseous at how cosy things became, and how quickly. I accept an unstable Tory government might not have been great for the country short term, but it would have been better than what we have now.

Clegg and the LD’s are (hopefully) finished. The only thing they might be remembered positively for is voting reform assuming it actually happens!

24 Galen10

As a disgruntled Liberal Democrat, I can appreciate a lot of what you are saying: that we got a “bum deal” as far as policies go, and do not hold the most influencial cabinet positions (though I do not see 23 cabinet members as being a particularly bad result).

However, to say the Lib Dems have no influence over real policy is pure presumption. Also, while I have never been a fan of Clegg, or any major “Orange Book Liberal” for that matter, I tire of people stating time and time again that we are “finished” as a political entity, as if the Market Liberal elite was perfectly synonymous with the Social liberal side of the party and all of its supporters!

I realise that such calls for our demise might feel liberating for you folks, but it is not going to solve anything, it is not constructive for debate, nor is it particularly clever.

25
This thread is about the demise in support for the lib dems, that’s why discussion is about the demise of the lib dems.

25 steveb

This thread is about the fall in popularity of the Lib Dems, not their “demise”, which is a somewhat overzealous desire on behalf of Labour supporters. Frankly, after rather too many policy u-turns, I would be amazed at our public ratings actually rising!
Still, I appreciate that everyone is entitled to their own opinion on the matter…

25 Dave

There are a number of probelms with your somewhat rose tinted view.

Other than the rather meaningless post of Vice Prime Minister for Clegg, the LD’s have NONE of the major cabinet positions…not a single one! Given the % of the popular vote the party got at the election, it wouldn’t have been particulalrly unreasonable to have expected at least a couple of the “big hitting” posts to go to the LD’s. So why didn’t they? The only answer must be that the Tories said no, and the LD leadership didn’t push it hard enough.

If you’re disgruntled, then do something about it! Ask your leaders why they never secured a better deal, why they have managed to exert so little influence over policy (it’s not presumption by the way…. if you think they HAVE had some positive impact, show us where…!), and why they are suddenly so keen on supporting policies they would previously have dismissed out of hand.

Time will of course tell if you are indeed finished as a political force. I very much hope so. It’s not a matter of trying to be clever, or not being constructive. As far as many people who used to be well disposed towards, and even vote for, the LD’s their actions are unforgiveable.

The only good thing that MIGHT come out of their disasterous decision to not only enter the Coalition, but to be such enthusiastic partners, is voting reform. If that doesn’t come off either then what has been the point?

27
Don’t you think that a fall in popularity is nothing to do with the demise of a political party?. Whatever your colour, it’s clear that the lib dem’s pact with the devil is going to seriously jeopardize their chances in the next election, even with a change to our electoral system.

28 Galen10

I guess everyone’s allowed a rose-tinted view; I won’t necessarily mantain mine, time will tell.
Not sure I totally agree on the cabinet positions argument: though the proportion is correct, as is your affirmation that we did not receive any major departments (with the exception, perhaps, of the BIS), the archaic voting system made our popular vote irrelevant in this instance.

You need not fret about my complaining to the Lib Dems, I have already done so and will continue. As far as our influence is concerned, you can rest assured the recent tough measures would have been even tougher if the Tories had got in alone, though you probably will not believe me.

Seeing as this is the mood of the conversation, and though I do not know your allegiance, I wish upon your Party of choice a future within a coalition, with all the compromises, failures, backstabbings, and flak that come with it. Maybe it will be for the best. Goodbye!