That’s a terrible story. I really feel for you.

However I’m not sure it’s evidence of anything other than some men are complete twats. But you should know this isn’t exclusive to men. Some mother-in-laws do exactly what you’ve described here.

Maybe it’s not because you’re a woman, maybe it’s just because your husband is a twat. I’m sure gay men in civil unions aren’t exempt from twattery.

To assume that any ill treatment or disrespect you receive is due to your gender, says a lot more about your own lack of self-esteem/self-respect and a gender-based inferiority complex, then it does about sexism in wider society.

A black man wants to cross the road, but not at a crossing; he wants to cross in the middle of oncoming traffic in both directions. A few cars do not stop to let him pass. He shouts at them, indignant with fury, “Racists!”

Wow! A manspainer first! Who’d'a thunk it??!!

Does someone else want to explain ownership/patriarchal traditions involving women, property and children to him? I don’t have the patience today, I’m afraid..

Wow, for someone aggrieved about being patronised because of their gender, you’re being awfully patronising because… I’m a man.

Yes, every little bad thing or big bad thing that ever happened to you or anyone else is because of MALES and patriarchy.

Men start wars.

Men are racist.

Men created violence, and disease.

Yes. Of course.

[deleted]

@4 Chris Rock on marriage and married life: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-U1QJpJ1ULA

Surely marriage is anti-feminist and anti-women? Why is a self-hating married woman complaining about her evil patriarchal husband? The institution of marriage is sexist and designed to prevent women from attaining economic equality, and is all about private property. Engels said so, haven’t you read Engels? What kind of feminist are you?

How on Earth did you get to that point in a relationship without realising he was an ignorant, chauvanist [sic!], selfish bastard?

When we got married I offered to change my name to my wife’s surname as I knew losing that part of her past was upsetting her. My wife wouldn’t hear it and refused. I’ve since offered to have our baby have her maiden name as the baby’s (currently brewing!) middle name.

Hense I agree in part with Blanco. Obviously what he’s doing is sexist and rooted in a male dominated history. Key point is though he’s a bastard. Even an uber-sexist would have let this happen if they weren’t such a bastard. He just wants you to do as you are told – and women can be/are just as guilty of that. History suggests men have a particular penchant for it, but both sexes have it in them!

Also, am I the only one who doubts this story just a touch? Am I being just too cynical? I just struggle to believe someone who is obviously a feminist writer could get to the delivery room before noticing this streak of nastiness in their other half, and/or have decided to live with it from before then.

@Blanco. Can a marrige not just please be a genuine part of a loving relationship and not some bloody conspiracy. The nature of a marrige will be dictated by the people in it, its not pre destined to be anything.

How on Earth did you get to that point in a relationship without realising he was an ignorant, chauvanist [sic!], selfish bastard?

I just struggle to believe someone who is obviously a feminist writer could get to the delivery room before noticing this streak of nastiness in their other half, and/or have decided to live with it from before then.

To be perfectly fair to the author of the OP, plenty of women date/marry stupid dumbass chauvinistic cavemen, because they are on the whole much more attractive than weedy nice guys, who women only ever want as friends. They have this mistaken belief that they can “tame” the alpha male. But the alpha male is a numbskull. Any man who needs to have a discussion and an agreement about what their baby’s middle name will be is a fucking neanderthal. Again, the guys nice enough to realise it doesn’t matter and wouldn’t it be nice for my wife, those guys never get with women.

Women date and marry bad boys/rude boys/alpha males and then come over all surprised when Captain Big Dick turns out to be a sexist.

Go and register the child yourself.

Register the baby yoursef and give it only your last name. It’s perfectly legal; it seems the law allows you to keep your father’s surname, assume your mother’s surname, assume your partner’s surname, and pass any of these on to your children. A man doesn’t have such choice, and you’re whining because your husband “won’t let you”? What kind of feminist are you that you need his permission to exercise your rights? Sheesh.

@7 I was being ironic about how some feminists degrade marriage as an institution of patriarchal control

Must say there is a lot of truth in what blanco et. al. have said. The famous statement that “the personal is the political” has really opened the door to all this kind of crap. Just because a conceptual division is not dichotomous – just because there is some cross over – it doesn;t mean the two are one and the same. This woman choosing her breeding partner badly is not direct consequnce of the patriarchal structure.

Also #8 made me lol – in a good way.

In defence of the OP, the article is s’posed to just be an example of sexism today, when it’s pretended that feminism has won and equality reigns everywhere. Little anecdotes like this one show it aint necessarily so.

(sorry for the split infinitive @13)

@13 Yes, but just because this sexist incident happened, does it prove sexism is “rife” everywhere? I’m not sure it does. I’ve had a look at the blog the OP is cross-posted from – jeez louise, the foremost example of sexism on there is where some guy tells a woman not to lift some boxes, he’ll lift them himself.

Sisters – really doing it for themselves, I see.

I am concerned that women will see this thread as a bunch of guys being unsympathetic to the problems of a women who has been treated badly by a guy (not that a middle name is, y’know, a big fucking deal). It’s a bad situation to be in for the author, because she trusted this guy and now he’s gone back on his word and is being a real dick about it. And to be fair, most men do not exhibit these tendencies in the early stages of marriage so I can’t blame the woman for not seeing it coming.

In an attempt to be constructive, I would sympathetically echo what flowerpower and john said above – take the situation into your own hands, and do what you think is best for the child. There were times when feminists were treated badly by men, that they’d fight back. Now they just go on blogs and moan (and I appreciate the hypocrisy of me saying this whilst commenting on a blog myself!).

So to summarise – I’m sorry if I sounded insensitive or unaware of how this very minor incident constitutes massive sexism. But there’s more you can do about it – don’t let it slide.

Based on the details in your piece, I don’t see how this is an example of sexism. It’s just an example of a human being being a wanker. Not news.

Also I find it uncomfortable that you are prepared to imply ‘ownership’ of the baby based on the amount of maintenance each person in a relationship is likely to do. Call me naive but should I ever have children, I would consider it an equal partnership no matter what amount of time myself or my partner at able to devote to my child.

Again, based on the information before me, I would suggest you are taking a localised issue (lack of trust and honesty in a relationship) and blaming it on a wider (and very real) issue that you are not responsible for.

My wife’s not talking to me because I didn’t do the dishes.

Interested in a blogpost Sunny?

Not really pagar, that’s just you being a dick like you are normally, here too.

ot that a middle name is, y’know, a big fucking deal

It is.

…plus I’m going to be the one doing all the breastfeeding and 90% of the burping, changing, bathing, caring and put-to-bed-ing once we leave the hospital…

With the best will in the world, tell ‘im to pull ‘iz bloody weight.

@15

I dunno, I see lying about naming a child as a pretty big deal…

…and in fact, if it was the other way around, it would be pounced on by the right-whingers as a case of wimmin’s rights gone mad.
The point is that the cumulative affect of all the little stories of sexism on that blog amount to the fact that feminism has a long way to go before sexist attitudes are abolished.

The good news is that if you’d decided to kill the baby while it was in your womb, he wouldn’t have been able to do a damn thing about it.

(scant consolation, I know)

@ Sunny

Three more UK soldiers died in Afghanistan yesterday.

The futility of their deaths and how we can build pressure to prevent more seems like a bigger deal to me than this woman’s selfishness in wanting to stamp her mark of ownership on her son by having him carry her name.

Sorry if that is at odds with LC’s priorities.

“So I carried the kid for nine months inside me, literally created it cell by cell with MY body, had it claw out of MY vagina less than 24 hours ago, plus I’m going to be the one doing all the breastfeeding and 90% of the burping, changing, bathing, caring and put-to-bed-ing once we leave the hospital…”

From the OP. Seriously, if men are so fucking useless (you didn’t need him to become inseminated, did you?), then don’t bother with them. Raise it yourself. It’s odd, I think it was Cynical/Realist making the point that you should’ve seen this coming, and then I was saying well you could be forgiven for not seeing it coming – but if before the baby’s even out of the hospital, you think your husband is going to do only 10% of the childcare – then seriously, you really should’ve seen this coming. Sounds like you married a grade A douche, or was that also his fault too?

Why not challenge for exclusive custody of the child, if the child is essentially an extension of yourself (“MY vagina”, “MY body”)? This isn’t sexism – this is you wanting a man around despite stating you didn’t need him to create the baby and won’t need him to look after it, and now complaining he’s useless.

@Pagar well those soldiers were men, weren’t they, and no doubt the author of the OP and the blog she comes from would liken the war to one big mass-rape by a dominant man of a subservient woman.

@23

LOLWUT

You ask Sunny if you can write an article about your failings as a husband. Sunny says No, on the grounds that you’re a dick [fairly or otherwise, but it is his site].
What in the name of anything holy or otherwise has that to do with Afghanistan? And have you missed these?

I agree that the husband’s behaviour here is both boorish and shitty, and so have no argument with the OP. However, I’m not sure I understand the premise under which this has been posted: to “share stories by women who vent their frustration at the continued sexism, despite being told every day that it no longer exists.”

The idea that sexism doesn’t exist anymore, period, is laughable even if you’re only referring to this country. It’s a ridiculous statement. If anyone is genuinely claiming that, just find one example of modern sexism and you’ve won (if they’re even worth the bother of convincing).

However, it’s possible that you’re referring to people who say that sexism is no longer the broad problem that it was, or that it’s no longer institutionalised. If so, posting a single anecdotal example of sexist behaviour does nothing to dispute that.

@ S Pill

My point in mentioning Afghanistan is that it illuminates the moral bankruptcy of some of the self proclaimed lefties on this blog.

A post about the unfairness of Laurie Penny’s period will be discussed for days whilst one on the rationale for working class kids from our council estates being sent abroad to be blown to pieces in a futile war raises barely a murmur here.

I just think it illustrates a faulty and hypocritical set of values.

I just think the values are wrong.

@27

But there have been articles about Aghanistan. Bloody loads of them, as that link I posted proved. This blog doesn’t have a single-issue focus; I mean hell in the past few days there have been articles about nuclear weapons, the budget, Raul Moat, the BNP, global warming, the French burkha ban and yes Afghanistan too. I don’t recall seeing a post about anyone’s period.
As someone with friends serving in the Royal Marines I check the names of people who die in Afghanistan every damn day in trepidation of the worst; being concerned about sexism/whatever else doesn’t take away from any concerns over the war.
Why not write an article yourself and see if you prove your theory correct or not?

In addition to S. Pills, point: I don’t think you can assume the amount of importance someone places on an issue simply by adding up the amount of time they spend talking about it. I might have a bugbear about some complete triviality and thus discuss it all the time, but still have no problem accepting that it takes a back seat to more important issues.

Not sure about this, when I say “my daughter”, thats shorthand for Im her father. I belong to her, not the other way round. The point about choosing names is, you have to balance what you would both like with what you think this new, unknown person might want in the future. Its a good idea for the last name to be that of one the parents but then what do you do about the other, double-barreled names have their own problems but using the middle place loses the child the chance of an alternative first name.
The egos of the parents dont matter at all, just looking after children is an honour & a privelege.

Sorry if that is at odds with LC’s priorities.

I have an idea pagar. Why don’t you write down every day what you think this site’s priorities should be… and then if we publish anything that doesn’t come in that order of priorities then you can tell us off. Sound good?

Ah, found the problem. “A new blog that aims to share stories by women who vent their frustration at the continued sexism, despite being told every day that it no longer exists” is not an accurate description of the site based on its own ‘about’ section. It’s just there to highlight sexism, so an accurate description would read “A new blog that aims to share stories by women who vent their frustration at sexism”.

So either the person who posted this misrepresented the blog, or they’re a member of the blog and have misrepresented its purpose to the people who contribute to it.

Hey Sunny, I appreciate the work you put into this site and enjoy reading it, but I’m curious as to how this jives with the rest of the site as it stands. As it stands, it’s a rightfully-angry tirade against someone being a dick. There’s perhaps* an issue in terms of women’s rights from the point of view of naming rights, but the post is a rant, not the usual constructive discourse we/I’ve come to expect from LC. It’s style is MFIF’s shtick, which is fine, but it it’s jarring to read here.

Basically, why was it posted? Did they ask for a post to raise awareness of their existence, for example? And do you to intend to cross-post more from there?

It’s perhaps cheeky for me to ask you to justify your editorial policy as I ave not contributed to LC beyond comments and pageviews, but I am curious as ot how this fits in.

*NB I say ‘perhaps’ as I have no idea on the current rules regarding who gets to name offspring.

“So I carried the kid for nine months inside me, literally created it cell by cell with MY body, had it claw out of MY vagina less than 24 hours ago, plus I’m going to be the one doing all the breastfeeding and 90% of the burping, changing, bathing, caring and put-to-bed-ing once we leave the hospital… but HIS is the only name the kid can be allowed to bear.”

Congratulations!

You pushed a baby out in the last 24 hours, you are allowed to express any view you wish to more loudly than usual. He probably stood by watched, maybe made sure you had everything you needed. These Father people have their uses even during birth, even if it’s just holding your hand. In the 1st 24 hours as you do all the heroic stuff I expect he feels the need to have some input.

It may not feel so right now but you are privileged to give birth, then to feed and care for that baby. It was your choice and that man helped you make the choice.

So chat about it see if you might agree with him in time. Sounds like he really wants to be involved.

Hi BertieB, we post rants here all the time. Not continuously, but quite regularly in fact.

I think what people find jarring is that it’s a rant against what a type of sexism that is easily swept underneath the rug. When people rant against Libdems, or the Tories, or NHS reform or BBC mis-reporting of a story, then we see it is acceptable because that’s “normal” political discourse. Of course, Tories, Libdems etc get annoyed by it, but that’s seen as part of the rough and tumble.

But being part of the left, for me, also means taking into account other constant struggles. Some of them are about ingrained sexist attitudes that downplay the role or importance of women. And so people like pagar come along and rant about how we should just publish articles after articles about Afghanistan, because somehow sexist attitudes have no consequence or not really worth ranting against.

Of course, I disagree. And so I invited the author of that blog to cross-post something here. Also, it’s the weekend, so I focus on pieces that’s aren’t strictly tied to the news cycle. Hope that explains.

@Sunny

Thanks for explaining. When will you post an anti-Labour rant, or a pro-LibDem rant?

You’ll notice there was one by Jim Jepps today about how Labour also attacked civil liberties. There was another by Kate Belgrave this week about Hackney Cuts, and how the attack on services started under Labour. What would you like to see Labour attacked on, by the Libdems exactly? VAT? the NHS?

@ Sunny

Of course the diversity of postings here is one of the strengths of your blog and you have an absolute entitlement to set the agenda.

But I am also entitled to express a view if I think you have got it wrong.

This post was nothing but froth- I’ve had a bad day because I haven’t been allowed to get my own way.

But there are three families who have had a much worse day.

People if you go to the site you’ll see this is one anonymous story from a lot of anonymous stories. This is an example, not a specific. Go to MFIF and see what is actually happening in a more general sense.

“People if you go to the site you’ll see this is one anonymous story from a lot of anonymous stories. This is an example, not a specific. Go to MFIF and see what is actually happening in a more general sense.”

MFIF is a load of anecdotes. Almost all of them probably true, but anecdotes nonetheless. You could find as many examples of people not being sexist were it not for the fact that a lack of bigotry doesn’t make people angry, so they don’t feel the need to post on a blog about it.

However, this is by-the-by: the MFIF site doesn’t say anything about how it’s trying to prove that sexism still exists, which I believe is why most people have criticised the post, which does make this claim. I can only assume that the OP shoved a bit of their own commentary into the article, and made both the story and MFIF out to be something they are not.

Isn’t the whole MFIF thing supposed to be a fairly lighthearted list of the daily experience with male twats? It is just a bunch of anecdotes. I found a lot of them quite amusing.

To the OP – just hand the baby and nappies, etc, over to hubby and say ‘fair enough – take him. He’s yours.’

“To the OP – just hand the baby and nappies, etc, over to hubby and say ‘fair enough – take him. He’s yours.’”

You’re right. Someone going by the name of ‘anonymous’ has tried to turn MFIF into something I’m not.

Sunny

> Hi BertieB, we post rants here all the time. Not continuously, but quite regularly in fact.

But actually Sunny, the one rant you’ve never had on LC is a feminist on the issue of women under Islam.

In fact, feminists on LC have never even raised the issue for a constructive debate – never mind a rant.

I’ve mentioned this to you several times on LC.
And nothing has happened, and indeed you continue to allow such weak feminist postings as this one.

Please please please – why not ask all the feminists who offer ‘rant’ posts to you – that they have to first post something thoughtful about women under Islam – and you won’t post their rants until then!

Until you do that Sunny – threads like this one are actively undermining LC’s reputation for sensible, rational debate about things that matter.

Speaking of names for babies, I read in the news claims that London Mayor Boris Johnson has been promoting Conservative family values again:

He is the dad of my baby
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/top-stories/2010/07/18/boris-johnson-affair-girl-he-is-the-dad-of-my-baby-115875-22421217/

pagar: But there are three families who have had a much worse day.

Fair enough, but this isn’t a zero-sum game. And I could hurl those kinds of accusations all day long. There are plenty of people dying in the developing world every day. Bombs go off in the Middle East all the time killing scores of people. This place could turn into a blog version of Reuters Alertnet.

But I have in my head a rough idea of what editorial policy should look like. It’s not perfect, and it welcomes ideas and input all the time. But what I don’t like are people constantly saying that one type of oppression shouldn’t be talked about because there are far worse.

journeyman: But actually Sunny, the one rant you’ve never had on LC is a feminist on the issue of women under Islam.

Well, knock me down with a feather you’ve said something completely unexpected.

MFIF is a load of anecdotes. Almost all of them probably true, but anecdotes nonetheless

That’s true. But politics isn’t just about policies and research. Most of the time it’s about people’s life experiences.

I bet if I posted an article by someone complaining about how the Tories took away their benefits and pushed them into poverty (which we will) there wouldn’t be similar cries that it’s “just anecdotes”. Why else are you in bloody politics if people’s experiences don’t matter?

The problem with this piece is that it assumes that the weaknesses in the writer’s relationship represent the weaknesses of all relationships. I agreed with the mother of my children that they would have her last name as their middle name and that’s what we did.

Anonymous has told her about a problem with her husband, not a problem with society. I’m sure my wife could tell you about a few problems with me.

Still, as feminism goes, it beats the usual spoiled angry prudes.

has told us, sorry

I think there is a much more serious point here:

Your child CLAWED ITS WAY OUT YOUR VAGINA! Jesus! Call a vet.

Just posting to offer my full support to ChaiseGuevara as per a longstanding arrangement

And also (to the author of the piece): just call your kid what you want. Don’t even think about allowing your husband/partner to exercise a veto here.

My ex and I agreed that our oldest child would have a hyphenated surname (ex-partner’s-name-Davies – catchy huh?) And then when the little snookums arrived, ex-partner said ‘I’ve been thinking, it really would be better if he just had one surname’. Me: ‘So Davies then, yes?’

End of conversation.

It’s great that you linked to that blog.

It’s bad that you posted such a meritless bit of whingeing from one tired half of a seemingly dimwitted couple.

It’s hilarious that Blanco’s illustrated the roots of his own frustration with his “nice guys finish last” take on gender relations, echoed everywhere by nice guys who aren’t actually that nice. http://www.heartless-bitches.com/rants/niceguys/notsoniceguys.shtml

My ex and I agreed that our oldest child would have a hyphenated surname (ex-partner’s-name-Davies – catchy huh?) And then when the little snookums arrived, ex-partner said ‘I’ve been thinking, it really would be better if he just had one surname’. Me: ‘So Davies then, yes?’

It’s a bit of a one-off solution though isn’t it? Because when little Snookums Exname-Davies has kids, they’ll have to agree to call it Cutiepie Exname-Davies-Something-Something. In two generations you’ll have names that are three feet long. I knew a Blundell-Hollinshead-Blundell at school, but at least that was only two hyphens.

@51 – yeah, I know (funny how this has become a Mumsnet thread – that’s the objection that always gets raised on there too ). But little snookums has a brain the size of a planet (OF COURSE). He’ll work something out. Better than mindlessly perpetuating patriarchal discourses, right? Yeah. Right on.

52 – there’s always the Spanish technique that always sounds wonderfully convincing but that I can never remember. Something about girls having their mother’s last name, and their father’s as a middle name, and the other way round for boys.

This isn’t sexist. hes just not very nice. Boo hoo, shouldnt of got on your back so easily.

LOL @Rowan. Cheers.

Tim J:

“It’s a bit of a one-off solution though isn’t it? Because when little Snookums Exname-Davies has kids, they’ll have to agree to call it Cutiepie Exname-Davies-Something-Something. In two generations you’ll have names that are three feet long. I knew a Blundell-Hollinshead-Blundell at school, but at least that was only two hyphens.”

A potential embarrassment that could probably best be solved by picking one constituent part of each person’s surname, and double-barrelling those. Do that at marriage and you don’t need to worry about it again once the little shavers start to appear.

“Boo hoo, shouldnt of got on your back so easily.”

Ye Gods.

“I knew a Blundell-Hollinshead-Blundell at school”

Inbred?

57 – A famous old English name apparently. Family tree full of Major-Generals and Tory politicians.

So, probably.

Thank you for this post. I think it was very brave to admit to that conflict between partners on the birth of their child.

Apologies I havent read all the comments.

I am one of the only people I know that has my Mum’s surname as my surname. (My parents never married). I feel very proud of this, partly because it shows my Dad is not a man who felt the need to impose his identity and his ‘ownership’ of me, onto my Mum when she had carried me for 9months and gone through labour.

Yours,
Quiet Riot Girl

Plus “Riot Girl” is a pretty awesome surname

Give your child your surname. Like @59 I have my mother’s surname (though my parents are married- my dad retained his name) and my daughter has my surname (my partner will retain his surname when we marry). If I had been told I couldn’t give my daughter my surname (and I was flexible on the issue) I’m rather afraid that I would have had to pass it on.

It’s pretty public knowledge that the sperm is what fertilizes the waiting egg. That means since men carry X and Y chromosome they create the children and choose the sex. Women carry the children and give birth. Great beautiful partnership. With that said, I see no reason why a man should not expect the child to have his last name.

I call Poe’s Law on 62.

Some more creative solutions:
make up a surname comprising of both parents names (Johnsmith, Lewihowe)
make up a new family surname for both partners and child

Sunny, I appreciate the time you took to write an explanation, so thanks for clearing that up. Like I say, I think this particular rant exemplified some guy being a dick, but there’s been some intelligent discussion in the comments. Well, most of them anyway. I’d chime in moreso myself, but I have a headache so I’ll spare you all.

Sunny

You may not have been surprised when I said:
>But actually Sunny, the one rant you’ve never had on LC is a feminist on the issue of women under Islam.

So I guess I should stop being surprised that you don’t explain why you allow poor threads like this one, and apparently are actively avoiding any discussion on women under Islam by feminists on LC.

Hey ho, it’s your ball: you get to choose when to take it away I guess.