I probably agree.

Though it would be nice if soi-disant “anti-fascists” didn’t describe the conference at which he was due to be lead speaker insect glowing terms!

http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/9003

Good post dave. In a world such as our own, whichis characterised by a global public sphere, the idea of having “free speech within national boundaries” is a nonsense, and the first part is surely compromised by the second

Damn autocorrection – obviously “in such glowing terms”

I suppose I agree… but isn’t it more about sending out a message about what we, as a public, see as acceptable in the UK rather than protecting us from such views?

That’s why I couldn’t understand the hoo-ha about that fake pope itinerary – apparently it was terribly offensive to highlight how far from modern british thinking the pope is on certain matters…

And if they can all be banned then what about the pope? He’s said some pretty vile stuff – and is probably taken more seriously by more pretty vile people than the others on the list

Good article though I get rather depressed that these points need making yet again. Jesus, how often do we need to go through this?

‘I suppose I agree… but isn’t it more about sending out a message about what we, as a public, see as acceptable in the UK rather than protecting us from such views?’

Even if true, the ban is disproportionate, unnecessary and counterproductive. If you simply want to send a message why not stamp his passport with the word ARSEHOLE?

Here’s a completely different question, nothing to do with bans, or anything like that.

I can see that in the article on Pickled Politics, the sister blog to LibCon, that there’s an call for people to attend various anti-racism demonstrations:

http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/9003

Why don’t you organise a demonstration against hate preachers like Naik? There are many of them out there – a number will be speaking this weekend.

Is there an organisation from the Left that organises such demonstrations? There are certainly South Asian groups that campaign against hate preachers, but I don’t believe that domestic Left and progressive groups have ever joined those campaigns.

Why not?

Isn’t it about time that they did?

I would ban all Islamists whom we are not legally obliged to let in. It seems very foolish to let in people who make no secret of their intention to destroy our society and with whose armed wing we are currently at war.

What about banning Bebi and his gang, as they celebrated the deaths of British soldiers in the 40′s in 2007.

David T
I suppose your too busy to organise one , still pissed celebrating the Tory victory with your mate Cohen.

‘Why don’t you organise a demonstration against hate preachers like Naik? There are many of them out there – a number will be speaking this weekend.’

Surely letting him in gives you the opportunity to protest against his views?

Would you rather his views were heard only via the Internet in social contexts where they would be lapped up without challenge?

“I suppose your too busy to organise one , still pissed celebrating the Tory victory with your mate Cohen.”

What a stupid thing to say.

Of course, I do my best here, but I really think that the broader obligation to stand up against preachers who are in many ways worse than the EDL (because what they say is more hateful, and because they claim divine authority) falls on civil society as a whole.

In other words, anti fascist groups should be reaching out to South Asian groups, and offering them support in their struggle against bigotry, sectarianism, and theocratic politics. This is the sort of campaign that ought to be backed by trade unions and the labour movement generally.

“Would you rather his views were heard only via the Internet in social contexts where they would be lapped up without challenge?”

No, I’m suggesting that they are challenged.

There are a number of anti-racist activists who read LibCon. Why not research the views of other speakers, at this and other similar events. Ask yourself whether, if the EDL were saying these things, you’d demonstrate. If you would, get a group together and challenge these views.

Surely letting him in gives you the opportunity to protest against his views? Would you rather his views were heard only via the Internet ….?

Thanks to the Internet we already know his views. They can be neatly summed-up in his own pithy line: “All Muslims should be terrorists.”

We don’t need him physically here to debate that proposition.

What kind of message would it send to the moderate Muslims who are trying to purge their mosques and communities of these extremists to allow another one into the country?

What a stupid thing to say.

I heard you were celebrating with Tory mates after their victory. Gove and Johnson were mentioned. Wrong David T eh.

As for hate groups they usually start by brain washing the young

It was the preursors of right wingers like yourself, who supported Zia who set up Taliban schools in Pakistan and who now supports Gove;s open school policy which will lead to a growth in religious schools.

What are you talking about?

@Dave Osler

You write

At the purely practical level, there must inevitably be some limitations on this principle, if only to prevent people shouting ‘fire!’ in crowded theatres.

But what are those limitations to be? And who decides them? After all, this Zakir chap has called for all Muslims to take up arms against Jews, which could be seen as a fire-in-a-theatre scenario.

Then again the Government is always a bit shabby on who to let in/keep out. This photo should serve as a reminder of someone who murdered innocent people for political purposes yet was allowed to come to the UK and make use of state protection.

Is there an organisation from the Left that organises such demonstrations?

Spurious whataboutery by David T there – a man who once promoted his blog as a defender of liberty and free speech.

The question is about whether he should be banned or not, and not about demonstrations. Perhaps free speech should be determined by who David T thinks we should organise a demo against!

Again, I ask the question.

Would you, Sunny either organise or attend a demonstration against Naik, if he had been let into this country?

‘There are a number of anti-racist activists who read LibCon. Why not research the views of other speakers, at this and other similar events. Ask yourself whether, if the EDL were saying these things, you’d demonstrate. If you would, get a group together and challenge these views.’

Demonstrate *where* if Naik isn’t allowed into the country? I can’t afford a trip to India and I’m not going to march around my own town centre protesting against the views of somebody thousands of miles away almost nobody would have heard of.

‘What kind of message would it send to the moderate Muslims who are trying to purge their mosques and communities of these extremists to allow another one into the country?’

That free speech is a fundamental principle worth defending?

‘Would you, Sunny either organise or attend a demonstration against Naik, if he had been let into this country?’

Depends if Naik airbrushed his arms.

David,

Now if only you had a well read blog, you may well be able to organise such a campaign.

david T
You support your Tory mates idea of open schools. This will lead to more Islamic schools not less.
Also why don’t you organise a demo against Naik.
Also when has Sunny supported Niak’s views. Please give an example.

No more than he would do so against the charmers who turn up at the East London Mosque or at various university ISOC’s.

“Also why don’t you organise a demo against Naik.”

I think it would be very important that such a demonstration had the widest possible support, so that it was not misinterpreted, or subject to a bogus “anti racist” counter demonstration.

If a South Asian organisation organised a demonstration against a hate preacher, would you attend it?

cjcjc
If you despise Sunny so much why the FUCK do you post on his site.
Surely you too and Dave T should be busy wanking over job losses for public sector workers.

What have public sector redundancies, the Tory victory, the amount that Nick Cohen drinks, and your speculations about religious groups setting up schools got to do with the question I’m asking.

Namely: if a South Asian led group called for a public demonstration against a visiting hate preacher, would you attend that demonstration?

David T
I would mate.
I was demonstrating and warning about religious extremism when your republican and conservative mates were arming and training them in the eighties.

Good. Thanks.

I don’t despise him at all.
What are you on about, you sad incoherent little potty mouth?

Just to be clear, I support Naik’s right to speak and am against the ban on airbrushing because *both* are free speech issues.

However, I actually find anti-semitism far more objectionable than depilation by Photoshop.

I admit that my priorities might not be shared by everyone.

cjcjc
I forgot you only despise people with mental illness.

If a South Asian organisation organised a demonstration against a hate preacher, would you attend it?

I’d have no problems saying Zakir Naik was a hateful bigot and attending such a demonstration.

But typically of the “decent left”, what you’re trying to do here is move the conversation on to pretending the broader left are apologising for this man, when the issue is about free speech and civil liberties.

Now that you’ve given up your pretence to uphold free speech and civil liberties, perhaps you can tell us what happened to your demonstration against Geert Wilders – given you yourself admitted he was a “fascist” on your blog. Why did you not organise one then? Or does that rule apply only for Muslims?

My point David about the schools was that I don’t want Islamic religious schools, or any school based on religion in this country. In my view this will create more Mullahs and Fundies of all sorts
The reforms YOU support will lead to a massive increase in those schools.

“But typically of the “decent left”, what you’re trying to do here is move the conversation on to pretending the broader left are apologising for this man, when the issue is about free speech and civil liberties.”

What was that about “spurious whataboutery”.

No one is doing that, least of all David T. Nevertheless, this charge about attackiing the “broader left” seems to be the new Godwins Law. Throw it around and stop debate and before you know it, you’ve relieved yourself of any responsibility of finding out what ramifications of Zakir Naik’s hate preaching is for the muslim community.

And you have the temerity to call others Islamophobes.

No, I’m merely asking whether you would participate in a demonstration against a hate preacher, called by a South Asian organisation, and encourage others to attend it as well.

I ask because, of course, there are groups that are very worried about hate preachers like Naik, and who would benefit from the broadest support possible in their attempts to oppose the fascists who target their communities.

I’m not suggesting that the broader left is apologising for hate preachers. I am just encouraging more support for those efforts that are being made to oppose some of the worst inciters of intercommunal hatred in Britain today.

On schools: I haven’t followed the Tories proposals at all, but I do hope that they will ensure that procedures are put in place to prevent small and extreme political groups from obtaining public funds, for the purposes of setting up schools or at all. I have severe concerns about the “Big Society” idea, which I am certain will, in fact, be used to channel money to such groups.

Sunny says:

“Now that you’ve given up your pretence to uphold free speech and civil liberties, perhaps you can tell us what happened to your demonstration against Geert Wilders – given you yourself admitted he was a “fascist” on your blog. Why did you not organise one then? Or does that rule apply only for Muslims?”

Just out of interest Sunny, will you be calling for Stephen Donald Black, Mike Guzovsky, Fred Waldron Phelps Snr and Shirley Phelps-Roper and others and others who are currently on the UK Exclusion list to be taken off it. Or would you only argue that for Islamists?

Inasmuch as “Expose the BNP”, whom you cross-posted at PP, is representative of the “broad left”, I don’t know whether I would characterise their description of the conference at which Naik was star speaker -

“The convention that the foundation is organising at Wembley aims to “remove misconceptions, false fear and hate of Islam and Muslims” and to promote dialogue between faiths.”

- as an “apology” or not. What is clear though is that he is the kind of fascist they don’t seem to be terribly bothered about.

Yes, I wouldn’t describe that as an apology. But it is a misconception isn’t it?

I mean, Sunny, you agree that Naik is a “hateful bigot”. So it is particularly unlikely that a conference at which he was scheduled to speak will “remove misconceptions, false fear and hate of Islam and Muslims” and to promote dialogue between faiths.”

Now, I think we’re agreed that the EDL are not a fit organisation to run a demonstration against Naik. I agree that it is right to demonstrate against the EDL if they are indeed seeking to target Muslims generally.

But why was there no demonstration planned against Naik himself?

The answer is that in order to call and organise demonstrations, you need a fair amount of infrastructure, and experience in putting these sorts of things on. For example, if Unite Against Fascism were to organise such a demonstration, it would certainly get off the ground.

David T
You have not supported the Tory educational reforms.

“For example, if Unite Against Fascism were to organise such a demonstration, it would certainly get off the ground.”

As would the flying pigs.

“You have not supported the Tory educational reforms.”

Correct: I have no strong views on them. I’m not ideologically opposed to ‘charter schools’, but I’ve heard good arguments against them as well. I’m certainly opposed, in general, to Tory “big society” reforms that I think will turn into a gravy train for faith groups, which in turn will use public funds to encourage religious observance, as religious schools do already.

David T: you completely avoided my question as usual.

where was your demonstration against Geert Wilders? Or do you call for one only against Muslim preachers?

My stance is that people should only be banned if they’re inciting violence. Rabble rousers should be allowed in – whether they’re Jean Marie Le Pen or Geert Wilders.

but you have a very inconsistent approach don’t you? You threw lots of abuse at the govt when Geert Wilders was banned. As did your mate Douglas Murray. Why not now?
do you support the ban or not? And would you organise a demonstration against Geert Wilders? Yes or no will do thanks.

Hmmm. I wonder if the British Board of Deputies would be interested in a demonstration against Avigdor Lieberman. Did you ask them David T? What do you think about his ideas? Didn’t Jewsish orgs in the UK have meetings when he came over? did you organise a demo then? Did you write about it?

“where was your demonstration against Geert Wilders? Or do you call for one only against Muslim preachers?”

As you well know, I supported the ban on Geert Wilders and that position was repeatedly made by a variety of posters of HP.

I also participated in the anti-SIOE demonstration at Harrow Mosque. I don’t believe you were there.

Can I just ask whether anyone’s up for a demo against Snoop Dogg? After one of his aural atrocities – the number where Pharrell sounds like his testicles are being sandblasted – he’s a worthy target, no?

Chris Brown has been banned from entering the UK. For hitting Rihanna.

(I barely know who these people are)

I was away then. However I was at the demo against Islam4UK and the demo against EDL around that time.

Thanks for clarifying that actually your stance on civil liberties and free speech is very flaky and getting worse all the time.

You’re becoming more of an idiot by the day – but hey!

@44

I’m in. Fo’ shizzle.

Is Michael Savage – real name Michael Alan Wiener – still on the banned list? I thought he’d been taken off it.

[this was the bloke whose knowledge of the UK was to describe then Home Secretary Jacqui Smith as the "Home Secretary of England"]

@49

Yep. Although I can’t really see why, seems more a common-or-garden tosser than actual threat to Our Way Of Life™.

The whole “banned list” is a bit arbitrary I reckon.

Liberal Muslims have welcomed this ban against the hate preacher Zakir Naik.

http://criticalppp.org/lubp/archives/13261

The Muslim Movement for the Elimination of Prejudiced Mullahs (MMEPM) welcomes the UK government’s ban on notorious sectarian and jihadi mullah Zakir Naik’s entry to the UK. The MMPEM also demands from the Indian Government to arrest Zakir Naik for spreading hate speech against Barelvi and Shia Muslims, Hindus, Christians and for also eulogizing acts of terrorism.

http://criticalppp.org/lubp/archives/13261

Naik is hardly a hate preacher. I can’t (and won’t) defend his anti-Jew comments above, but having heard him speak many times I can certainly say he does not preach violence or hate, ever.

The comment about him saying “All Muslims should be terrorists” is grossly out of context – everyone who has re-quoted it above should go and read the linked article to see what he is really saying. It’s easily mis-interpreted, but that in itself is not a crime, especially for someone who’s first language isn’t English.

Banning him is a real shame, as he is very intelligent, and is one of the few people in this world who considers all faiths in a rational manner. his views and interpretation of the Quran are progressive and liberal, and exactly what is needed to educate people about Islam and show how ridiculous and nonsensical Wahhabism and violent Islamism are. To see him portrayed as an Abu Hamza-/Geert Wilders hatemonger is to witness a lie.

Sarah 51

who are the “Muslim Movement for the Elimination of Prejudiced Mullahs” – as Google only finds them mentioned on the one site you link to?

Don’t even seem to have a website of their own…are they for real?

Sorry Sarah, but the fact one Muslim group has come out in favour of the ban isn’t terribly persuasive; if we banned something every time a Muslim group suggested it we’d have very little free speech at all, and if we start choosing which groups to bow down to we’ll inevitably be seen as – at best – inconsistant.

Zain 53

You seem very ill informed, given that you say you have heard him speak many times,

> Naik is hardly a hate preacher. I can’t (and won’t) defend his anti-Jew comments above, but having heard him speak many times I can certainly say he does not preach violence or hate, ever.

But here he justifies the death penalty for apostates – do you not consider that violence?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZMAZR8YIhxI

And if you listen to him here – he quite clearly is unwilling to condemn the Taliban or Osama bin Laden. Even saying “I support the terrorist who terrorises the greatest terrorist: the USA”

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BVtADPzyWTA

You wrote: “as he is very intelligent, and is one of the few people in this world who considers all faiths in a rational manner.”

But if you listen to him here – you’ll his un-intelligible grounds for saying that only Islam is right, (somehow he thinks arithmetic has a bearing on this!) and explaining why it is therefore right that non-Muslims should not have freedom of worship in Muslim lands.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=plyS8sIUjmQ

Is this the dick who says it’s OK to smack your wife around as long as you don’t leave a mark?

“You’re becoming more of an idiot by the day – but hey!”
Is this the way to debate. Also if you find his views idiotic,why post on his sites. The net is large place and I am sure their are many avenues for your views

I have always thought bans are counter productive for a number of reasons,. Firstly it gives massive amounts of press time for political non entities who say cruel and outrageous things just to inflate their pathetic egos. I certainly had never heard of this chap before the ban. Also he, sorry for the pun, is preaching to the converted. Do you honestly think the average Joe Muslim is going to listen to this blowhard and then think do you know he is right and this is my road to Damascus moment
Secondly the best way to deflate any fanatic is humour. So instead of signs saying “Go home Muslim fanatic” they should have ” There are no more virgins left in paradise”.
Bans just cause resentment and reinforce siege mentalities.
Also don’t organise demos against these guys (Wilders or Niak). Just ignore them. That hurts these guys.

Watch this video and find out what actually Dr Zakir naik said why all muslims should be terrorist and you decide

http://searchoftruth.com/videos/442/zaki-naik-ban-in-uk-watch-and-find-the-truth!

Snoop Dogg isn’t the best example considering he’s coming over here next week for Glastonbury. Now Chris Brown, there’s a contemporary reference, banned just last week I believe.

Sounding like an old buffer, but why was the rapper snoop dog banned ?

@ 62 Homophobic and misogynist, alledgedly. Which is worse than adhering to a religion which is both misgynist and homophobic, and supporting terrorism to boot, obviously.

Homophobic and misogynist, alledgedly.
Blimey, is that reason Littlejohn never leaves the country

Sorry,
Is that the reason

Which is worse than adhering to a religion which is both misgynist and homophobic, and supporting terrorism to boot, obviously.

I assume you mean Islam, athough all religions could be put in that category.

Islam 60

The URL you post isn’t actually helping to maintain a rational tone, it says:

“Dr Zakir Naik has just been banned. What a disgrace for a country which boasts about democracy and freedom of speech.”

Fair enough, some people will agree with that.

“They insult our beloved prophet (PBUH)?…”

Er no – wrong….. it’s a way too long a stretch from us using our due legal process to exclude certain people from our country to somehow interpreting that as insulting any prophets at all.

@66 “I assume you mean Islam, athough all religions could be put in that category”.

Yes I do. The fact that we have more than enough home grown bigots is not an argument for importing other peoples as well (a point that apologists for multiculturalism never seem to grasp)

@ 67 “They insult our beloved prophet (PBUH)?…”

But that’s the whole point, he’s their prophet, not ours. There is no reason why we shouldn’t insult him.

Islam 68

the video you link to is a obviosuly pitched more as propoganda than an exercise of logic.

It fails to explain what it means in practise, on the ground in terms of what Muslims should be doing as ‘terrorists’.

It DOES however show him to be extremely happy to keep saying it.
And happy to state explicitly that Islam is an intolerant religion.

“I believe in the right context, every Muslim should be a terrorist”

Saying this kind of thing is not a sign of someone trying to reduce global tensions.
Thousands of people (and many Muslims) are being killed weekly round the word by Muslims: the fact that whilst talking about the very subject of Muslim terrorism he does not take the chance to condemn any of that killing…..makes it very clear that he actually does not think it should be condemned.

QED – he supports murder and violence by Islamic terrorists.

“Every Muslim should be a terrorist to the anti-social enemy”

“No muslim should terrorise any muslim human being. We should selectively terrorise…

“Terrorists can also be considered freedom fighters”

“The UK government is very friendly with the (USA) terrorist government”

Then his disingenuous words (some would say lies)

“Yes Islam is an intolerant religion. It is intolerant towards injustice, dishonesty, corruption, racism, discrimination…..adultery, fornication…. I say yes Islam is an intolerant religion.”

“Islam is the mos tolerant religion for spreading peace. Thats why the superpowers are afraid of Islam. This is the only religion that can make peace in the world.”

“I challenge anyone to find anything in Islam that is against humanity at all”

There are many different groups speaking out concerns about Islam’s
treatment of women, homosexuals, apostates, adulterers, those of other faiths…

A disgraceful decision by the British Government to ban Dr. Zakir Naik. But it is not unusual or shocking. This could always be expected by the Western countries. And they talk about freedom of speech… wow! Do they think that this way they would be able to stop the truth (Islam) from growing and spreading across the world? They draw cartoons in the name of freedom of speech and thought, ban Hijab in the name of liberating women, let Geert Wilders propagate his hatred towards Islam openly to the extent of dishonouring the holy book of Allah (Quran), …….. and then they misquote Dr. Naik who stands for peace and ban him. They don’t want non muslims to come to the truth. I believe this would definitely make people from different religions to look into Dr Naik’s views to see why they are “extreme and unacceptable” as claimed. Injustice and oppression is becoming the trend of the world. During the rule (oppression) of the British Government in India, Bhagat Singh was a patriotic hero to the Indians, but for the British he was a terrorist and they sent him to the Gallows. After the British oppression ended in India, India got its freedom and had to get a new vision for its future. Mahatma Gandhi quoted that “If India has to improve it should be ruled by a dictator as honest and upright as Hazrat Umar (radhiAllahu anhu)”. Who was this person? He was the best of leaders of the muslim nation. He was an emblem of justice. He ruled as a true slave of Allah, treated muslims and non-muslims alike when it came to justice. We need the leaders of today to follow Umar’s footsteps.

http://navedz.wordpress.com/2010/06/19/quote-or-misquote-dr-zakir-naik-banned-in-uk/

Matt
Strange word multiculturalism.
Can be used in a number of ways.
The British are a multicultural race. We have grown from a number of races, religions and beliefs to become what we are now.
You I imagine are not “pure” British but an amalgam of different cultural backgrounds.
Many races keep their cultural identity, for instance Jews and Roman Catholics in this country, this is not necessary a bad thing.
Please don’t give me the that “Muslims are terrorists” mantra. Some British Jews and Catholics in their time have both supported organisations that have carried out “terrorist” activities.
I have only posted at this site for a day but Matt although you make some good points , but you are a young man full of anger against a perceived threat of Muslims, lefties and chavs.
The world is full of greys not black and white

Naved Zia 70

You wish to defend Naik.

OK- why when he says “I believe in the right context, every Muslim should be a terrorist”

Does he fail while on that very theme to condemn the weekly killing of thousands of people (and many Muslims) round the word by Muslims in the name of Islam..

QED – he supports murder and violence by Islamic terrorists.

Rhys 71

> Strange word multiculturalism.

Debates on that word have often occured on LC -and will likely occur again.

But this thread is about Nair.

What do you think is his view on terrorism commited in the name of Islam?

@ 71 “The British are a multicultural race. We have grown from a number of races, religions and beliefs to become what we are now.”

You are contradicting yourself. Multiculturalism has nothing to do with race (Islam, for example, is not a race) it is to do with culture, the clue is in the name.

“Many races keep their cultural identity, for instance Jews and Roman Catholics in this country”

Yes they do and yes I have kept a vestige of my (non uk) cultural identity, so what ? That’s not a reason for me to attack UK culture, if I had that serious a problem with it I would leave. Either fit in or fuck off – it’s that simple

“you are a young man full of anger against a perceived threat of Muslims, lefties and chavs”.

I have no problem with muslims, jews, catholics, blacks, asians or anyone else, I have a problem with the left for their attack on british culture, not for ideological reasons, but because it creates a bigger problem than the one they purport to solve (the creation of chavs being a prime example). I’m not that young either.

@ 70

You are a nutter, preaching dark ages religion as a solution to 21C problems. Islam spreads only one thing, and that is poverty. The poorest countries in the world are Islamic, is that a coincidence ?

“But this thread is about Nair.

What do you think is his view on terrorism committed in the name of Islam?”

If you read my earlier post, I find him a contemptible fellah.
But ignore his rantings, that hurts individuals like Naik. They need publicity like a drug
As we are in a Q and A session.
Can I ask you a question.
What do you feel about the present PM of Israel “celebrating” a terrorist attack on British soldiers and their families in 2007.
Should he be banned from the country ?
PS Committed has two m’s and t’s, I have corrected it for you old chap.,

You are a nutter, preaching dark ages religion as a solution to 21C problems. Islam spreads only one thing, and that is poverty. The poorest countries in the world are Islamic, is that a coincidence ?

Saudi Arabia and Dubai.
Are you sure ?

“You are contradicting yourself. Multiculturalism has nothing to do with race (Islam, for example, is not a race) it is to do with culture, the clue is in the name)”

So racial backgrounds have nothing to with the culture they bring to the country.

“Yes they do and yes I have kept a vestige of my (non uk) cultural identity, so what ? That’s not a reason for me to attack UK culture, if I had that serious a problem with it I would leave. Either fit in or fuck off – it’s that simple”

Can you define British culture. What is it ? Fish and chips, cricket on the green , Morris dancing. Please enlighten me.

“I have no problem with Muslims, jews, catholics, blacks, Asians or anyone else, I have a problem with the left for their attack on british culture, not for ideological reasons, but because it creates a bigger problem than the one they purport to solve (the creation of chavs being a prime example). I’m not that young either.”

I think you have a problem with Muslims. How as the left attacked British culture. It seems to me that culture is dynamic, ever changing. If it wasn’t we would all still be wearing woad and going to our local druid for marital advice.
As for cultural attacks it is probably the US who has changed UK culture more than any other influence. From McDonalds to Rock and Roll. By the way I don’t think this is a bad thing. You sound very young and immature. Pent up anger. My advice is join a gym.
P.S.
As for the creation of Chavs. they probably started in the 80′s but I don’t blame the Tories.

Rhys

So Naik is contemptible.
Do you find it curious that no British Muslim organisations seem to have come out and criticised him?

PS – you seem determined to take the thread off topic… I guess this reveals what your favourite themes are:

> What do you feel about the present PM of Israel “celebrating” a terrorist attack on British….

Just visiting
I am not a muslim and it is up to them what they say.

Also the thread is about banning orders.
Simple question.
Should Bibi be banned ?

@ 78 “Can you define British culture. What is it ? Fish and chips, cricket on the green , Morris dancing. Please enlighten me.”

Probably more like chicken vindaloo, binge drinking and vomiting on the pavement on the way home ?

It’s a ludicrous questions, all nations have a culture that they recognise as their own, the fact that its hard to define doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist. Culture is a dynamic social representation, not a list of products/activities.
Would you tell an African, an Indian, or a Jamiacan that their culture doesn’t exist because they can’t all agree on what it is ?

hi guys i just wanted to state how shocked i am as a muslim that zakir naik has been banned from the uk. the media have deliberately taken his words out of context he is the in fact the complete opposite to how they portray him. he is the most famous muslim preacher in the world for his knowlege. if he was like how they describe him he would have nowhere near the amount of support he has world wide, a simple search on his videos on youtube should prove this. thanks for your time guys i just wanted to clear that important misconception people have of him now due this news. peace

KGill

OK, have you any evidence of how his words are taken out of context.

It would be so easy for him to get in front of the media and explain that he does condemn muslim terrorism.

That he condemns Taliban violence against women in Afghanistan, that has been going on for years: similar stuff happening in Pakistan.

Or condemn killing tourists in the Bali bombings or Madrid way back, or the bombs in Mosques in Iraq that are ongoing, …. or anything really.

Funny that he is so silent…..

Probably more like chicken vindaloo, binge drinking and vomiting on the pavement on the way home ?

It’s a ludicrous questions, all nations have a culture that they recognise as their own, the fact that its hard to define doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist. Culture is a dynamic social representation, not a list of products/activities.
Would you tell an African, an Indian, or a Jamaican that their culture doesn’t exist because they can’t all agree on what it is ?

That was my point. How can you blame anybody for not fitting into your culture. When you, yourself has described it as a a dynamic social representation.
So if you cannot define the culture . How on earth can expect someone to adhere to the culture of the country or blame a group individuals of changing culture.

The only thing you can define is the law. All you can expect is that any individual adheres to the law of the land.

PS I changed Jamaican for you.

Just visiting
Could you the answer the question or were you just visiting

“In the internet age, isn’t it simply ridiculous to suppose it possible to shield citizens from exposure to invidious sentiment? For those attracted to the rantings of white supremacists or deranged jihadists, ample online content is only a click away.”

Keep it down, for goodness’ sake! Swapping tor bridges–as Chinese netizens do–will soon be part of our daily routine if government or tabloids get wind of this.

I don’t agree with Dr Naik that Osama is not a terrorist. He is a terrorist even to Muslims since with his command a suicide bomber goes out and kills innocent civilians that also include Muslims.But I do understand Naik’s point that its easy to distort evidences to prove one as a terrorist just like Zakir Naik has been termed as a hate preacher.Bush made everyone believe that Iraq had WMD and attacked the country but nothing was found afterwards.So if one can manufacture evidence and attacks a country its completely logical that evidences can be manufactured against a person as well.Whatever I saw of Dr Naik I found most of his arguments logical.And that can as well be appreciated. isn’t Women degraded in western world, isn’t there wife swapping going on in america?The quran did say that Jews will be our staunchest enemies and the Christians as our closest friends.Are the Jews proving the Quran wrong by occupying the Lands of our Palestinian brothers illegally.But that does not mean that we should hate Jews.And by the the term semitic should also be for arabs since they are also semitic.

The point is that if you want to dislike someone it better be a country and its policies rather than a ones living in that country.Just like its illogical to hate jews because of Israels actions and its crime against humanity its illogical to hate muslims because of Taleban or Laden or even Iran.

Ryhs

No I’m not just visiting.
But I am bored by your now three attempts to twist the thread to what appears to be your hobby horse : the Arab-Israel Conflict

If you’d read a litle wider: you’d know that we allow in all sorts of unsavoury dictators, heads of state, opposition figures and general dodgy characters – it’s called international diplomacy.

Hey, Tony Blair played host in 2001 to Yasser Arafat.

So your question regards the Israeli PM is both dumb and off topic.

Kyron, Kgill, Naved Zia:

you have all never been on LC before. But your words in defence of Naik are all in unison!

If you say he is misunderstood in the media : then please do point out the places were he condemns _any_ specific acts of muslim terrorism.

He has easy access to the media : he has his own TV channel!

PS
It may be a shock to you – but there are some pockets of rational debate left on the net, and LC at it’s best is just that. And therefore irrational old flannel that may work for your postings on islamic apologist sites, will tend to be challenged on LC; and evidence will be asked for.

“western women are more susceptible to rape” – Dr. Zakir Naik
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5J_AzIsmJhk

“If Osama bin Laden is terrorizing America, I am with him” – Dr. Zakir Naik
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WcoxaF9PW9o

“every muslim should be a terrorist!” – Zakir Naik
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yf1f1U1zixk

Islam is only one religion that can spread real peace in the world.Dr.zakir naik is doing the best job & he is really a great scholar.I support him…………

“No I’m not just visiting.
But I am bored by your now three attempts to twist the thread to what appears to be your hobby horse : the Arab-Israel Conflict
If you’d read a litle wider: you’d know that we allow in all sorts of unsavoury dictators, heads of state, opposition figures and general dodgy characters – it’s called international diplomacy.
Hey, Tony Blair played host in 2001 to Yasser Arafat.
So your question regards the Israeli PM is both dumb and off topic”
I.m not from banning Bibi, banning no one because it is counter productive.
Ignoring and belittling with humour is a much better
I am just amazed at your hypocrisy.
By the way what do you think of Bibi’s stand on Jewish terrorist in regards to british soldiers.

pls hip this news every news chanels

Those who think naik tells something wrong they can prove him wrong by proper argument.Instead of that why do they ban him????????????it proves that they are lacking in logic & that is why they are taking shelter of power in lieu of wisdom.

Dear All,

Please follow this link to clarify every thing. I am sure your concept will be clear about him.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dC4y4kOmnn4

Just visiting

well maybe you should watch some of Naiks videos where he quoted the Quran ‘that anyone who kills an innocent human being, has killed the whole of humanity and the one who save a innocent human being, has saved the whole of humanity’.And he did condemn the killing of hindu faithfuls in a temple supposedly by kashmiri terrorist.you wanted evidence why dont you look for it yourself just type ‘Zakir naik condemns terrorism’ and you would find quite a lot of videos.And by that maybe your knowledge would increase as well.we are pretty satisfied watching his channel.I think the Britishers missed a great chance.Imagine one man continuously questioned by “knowledgeable” Christians.You could have had your field day…or the other way round…anyways could have been quite entertaining.

your purpose isn’t satisfying me ok! try to supply right purpose