Tory MP says torture could be ‘a bonus’


by Sunder Katwala    
10:01 am - May 22nd 2010

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The Coalition agreement makes a clear, unequivocal and welcome statement

We will never condone the use of torture.

Not all of its Parliamentary supporters agree.

As the Daily Mail reports, Monmouth MP appears to be not so much tacitly condoning torture as actively welcoming it, in the case of suspected Al Qaeda or Taliban members

The Conservative MP for Monmouth, David Davies, insisted that the Government should repeal the Act after the new commission has properly considered the legal implications.

‘Active members of Al Qaeda and the Taliban are living in this country and not being deported because of concerns about their human rights if something horrible happens to them if they are sent home,’ Mr Davies said.

‘Personally I would have thought that would be a bonus rather than a reason for not sending them back.

‘I don’t mind if the Act is torn up, changed or amended. But I hope that whatever this commission comes up with, the views of the vast majority of people in this country who believe it is fundamentally wrong are respected’

—–
cross-posted from Next Left

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About the author
Sunder Katwala is a regular contributor to Liberal Conspiracy. He is the director of British Future, a think-tank addressing identity and integration, migration and opportunity. He was formerly secretary-general of the Fabian Society.
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Reader comments


Apparently he’s a really good mate of Andy Burnham!

Nice try. But, to be truthful, he doesn’t actually say ‘torture’, does he? Just ‘something horrible’.

3. Sunder Katwala

@2

He’s referring to the need to scrap the Human Rights Act, so that the government would deport people who may well probably then be tortured.

The case this week was clearly about the danger of torture, and not deporting without credible guarantees on that, so “not being deported because of concerns about their human rights if something horrible happens to them if they are sent home” is clearly a direct reference to torture. (What other possible reading is there of “something horrible”?)

Davies could have argued a right-wing anti-human rights position along the lines of “whatever happens in another country, we can’t expected to police or take responsibility for that” and our security depends on deporting them. If they are then tortured, its bad luck but not our responsibility, and we can’t take the risk.

But he went further, and said something horrible happening would be “a bonus”.

This clearly implies that he would be a bit disappointed to hear that they had not been tortured after returning to Pakistan after all.

Just ’something horrible’.

Oh, well, that’s alright then. Presumably he thinks that the deportees would just be sent to their rooms, and ribbed a bit in the canteen?

Here we go, they’re crawling out from under their rocks at last. They must think its safe now.

5
Oh yes, and I wonder when Clegg will metaphorically hang himself next to his thirty pieces of silver.

Hard surprising; he’s always been a nutter.

David Davies is one of the most revolting Tories and has been for sometime.

He is clearly referring to torture and is a shit.

I thought Tories wanted to defend traditions? What about the traditional and hard fought right to be innocent until proven guilty?

I have observed the self-righteous David Davies for some time, at least since he has been a member of the Home Affairs Committee. He doesn’t appear to support civil liberties – particularly for foreigners. Indeed I sometimes have the impression he supports civil liberties only for people who are not suspected of doing anything wrong. He appears to think little of protestors.

But beware tarring all Tories with the same brush. I know some conspirators have a knee-jerk hatred of people who identify as Tories, but some of the latter are genuinely interested in liberty.

@9

Oh, I’m not of the Nye Bevan school of thought with regard to tories, I generally think they’re mistaken rather than vermin.

I suppose what I said was something of a compliment to Conservatives, Davies is not a conservative, he’s an authoritarian shit making their party look (even) worse.

As Harry Hill would say, who’s better David Davis or David Davies, there’s only one way to find out!

I’d pay to see that fight.

11. Yurrzem!

Ex-SAS old timer vs pencil-neck righty twit. It wouldn’t be a long one, but I’d pay too.

A government shall also alter from its ancient and approved democratic form into one entirely new, if there is no census to regulate the election of magistrates; for, as the election is with the people, the demagogues who are desirous of being in office, to flatter them, will endeavour with all their power to make the people superior even to the laws.
http://www.politik-web.de/

13. Suprised

Isn’t this the MP that was campaigning for civil liberties a couple of years ago? Only when they were in opposition I guess.

14. DisgustedOfTunbridgeWells

Isn’t this the MP that was campaigning for civil liberties a couple of years ago? Only when they were in opposition I guess.

That was Davis, this is Davies.

Awesome. At least there is a politician not afraid to speak out.

P.S. Just read all other comments… People, wake up! These are terrorists, they wanted to blow YOU up! Who cares what happens to them when they go to Pakistan or wherever else they are from. WHO CARES!

17. gwenhwyfaer

People care, Molly, who understand that the primary substantive difference between “us” and “them” is the way we wish to treat those who disagree with us. You would have us destroy that distinction, and for what?

18. Nick Cohen is a Tory

P.S. Just read all other comments… People, wake up! These are terrorists, they wanted to blow YOU up! Who cares what happens to them when they go to Pakistan or wherever else they are from. WHO CARES!
How do you know they terrorists. Have they had a trial ?
If you codone Torture for terrorism, why not other offences, speeding, dropping litter, car theft, been a member of a trades union or maybe writing posts about condoning torture.
Do you get turned on Molly about the idea that someone has electroes attached to their genitals

@ Nick Cohen is a Tory: “Do you get turned on Molly about the idea that someone has electroes attached to their genitals”.

I think David Davies get a turn on from the thought of this.

Nice to see Liberal Conspiracy finally catching up on this story http://jailhouselawyersblog.blogspot.com/2010/05/tory-mp-david-davies-says-he-is.html

The tory party just becomes more like the Republican right wing every day.

@9 I thought Tories wanted to defend traditions? What about the traditional and hard fought right to be innocent until proven guilty?

Its hard to tell if he means convicted or suspected. I would certainly agree that under no conditions should someone suspected of terrorism (not sure exactly what this covers, probably a lot more than im aware of) be deported until they have a trial with a guilty verdict.

But then again if someone has been found guilty in court of terrorism (and by this I mean planning to kill people not just looking at websites opr whatever else this charge covers) then I dont have a problem with them being sent somewhere they will be tortured.

Given the bias of both police forces and judiciary along racial lines can we really have complete trust in the legal system over suspected terrorists?

For instance in relation to bombings there is a desire by the political establishment to ‘get results’ at essentially any costs, if those responsible can be apprehended excellent but if not well anyone will do.

If the IRA has claimed responsibility then any Irish person will suffice, under the present climate the police can have a field day and arrest any Asian they don’t like the look of. By the time the case comes to court there has been so much hyperbole generated via the media the chances of the accused getting anything resembling a ‘fair trial’ are negligible.

“If the IRA has claimed responsibility then any Irish person will suffice”

Except that’s a load of total shite isn’t it?

I don’t recall mass imprisonment of Irish during even the worst days of IRA atrocities.

Moreover, it was the Republic that had the hardest line against the IRA and their Sinn Fein front — I suppose they were racist against err themselves or something, innit.

Wej; you appear to have a short memory.
How MASS IS MASS?
Internment without trial in the 6 Counties.
In England: The Maguire 7; Birmingham 6; Guildford 4.
Even when an actual IRA active service unit was caught at the Balcombe Street siege, and they claimed full responsibility for bombings like Guildford and Woolwich, giving information only those responsible could know, as well as categorically saying those already arrested were not involved and were totally innocent.
Still those originally interred were left in prison to rot, why? They were Irish.
The political and legal establishment had too much invested in it to ever admit they had got it wrong.


Reactions: Twitter, blogs
  1. Secular Gay

    RT @libcon: Tory MP says torture could be 'a bonus' http://bit.ly/cISAI7

  2. Isaac Forman

    RT @libcon: Tory MP says torture could be 'a bonus' http://bit.ly/cISAI7 [same old Tories]

  3. Thomas O Smith

    RT @libcon: Tory MP says torture could be 'a bonus' http://bit.ly/cISAI7

  4. Robin Green

    Welsh Tory MP says the fact that people who haven't been convicted of a crime may be tortured if deported is "a bonus" http://bit.ly/cISAI7

  5. Joe McCrohon

    RT @libcon: Tory MP says torture could be 'a bonus' http://bit.ly/cISAI7

  6. Zoe Stavri

    @Ellwynnnnn Tory MP reckons torture is a bonus when deporting terror suspects http://is.gd/ckiYE

  7. Jimmie Franklin

    RT @libcon: Tory MP says torture could be 'a bonus' http://bit.ly/cISAI7

  8. Paris Gourtsoyannis

    RT @libcon: Tory MP says torture could be 'a bonus' http://bit.ly/cISAI7

  9. Jonathan Foster

    RT @libcon: Tory MP says torture could be 'a bonus' http://bit.ly/cISAI7 #toryfail

  10. Jonathan Foster

    RT @libcon: Tory MP says torture could be 'a bonus' http://bit.ly/cISAI7 #toryfail

  11. paul_trembath

    RT @libcon: Tory MP says torture could be 'a bonus' http://bit.ly/cISAI7

  12. phineon

    » Tory MP says torture could be 'a bonus' | Liberal Conspiracy http://bit.ly/9sQwNz

  13. Ben Griffiths

    Torture? A bonus. http://bit.ly/c2oL7i

  14. Liberal Conspiracy

    Tory MP says torture could be 'a bonus' http://bit.ly/cISAI7

  15. robwinder

    RT @libcon: Tory MP says torture could be 'a bonus' http://bit.ly/cISAI7

  16. LCW

    RT @libcon: Tory MP says torture could be 'a bonus' http://bit.ly/cISAI7

  17. Mike Jay

    RT @libcon: Tory MP says torture could be 'a bonus' http://bit.ly/cISAI7

  18. Zoe Stavri

    .@Ellwynnnnn Tory MP reckons torture is a bonus when deporting terror suspects http://is.gd/ckiYE

  19. Zoe Stavri

    .@Ellwynnnnn Tory MP reckons torture is a bonus when deporting terror suspects http://is.gd/ckiYE

  20. Alex Lodge

    RT @libcon: Tory MP says torture could be 'a bonus' http://bit.ly/cISAI7

  21. David Miliband

    David Davies MP – Good man! http://bit.ly/98T2Gc

  22. John Rennie

    I feel so proud that my MP is in favour of torture. Grrrr. http://tinyurl.com/38u5xqx

  23. Sam Korn

    My MP. I'm so lucky. http://is.gd/cndSR

  24. Dyfan Powel

    http://liberalconspiracy.org/2010/05/22/tory-mp-says-torture-could-be-a-bonus/ Good old Dai Davies back on form

  25. Delyth Jewell

    David Davies, Conservative Monmouth MP, views possibility of torture as 'bonus' to deporting: http://tinyurl.com/38u5xqx (via @Natsville)

  26. Simon Arnold

    RT @delythjewell: David Davies, Conservative Monmouth MP, views possibility of torture as 'bonus' to deporting: http://tinyurl.com/38u5xqx (via @Natsville)

  27. Talog

    RT @delythjewell: David Davies, Conservative Monmouth MP, views possibility of torture as 'bonus' to deporting: http://tinyurl.com/38u5xqx (via @Natsville)

  28. Elin Haf Thomas

    RT @delythjewell: David Davies, Conservative Monmouth MP, views possibility of torture as 'bonus' to deporting: http://tinyurl.com/38u5xqx (via @Natsville)

  29. Peter G

    Just a reminder, this is the man announced today as Welsh affairs committee chairman http://bit.ly/cISAI7 Oh goody. #ConDem

  30. Ethel the Frog

    Every snob I knew in Monmouthshire had his sign in their garden. Here he is on torture: http://fwd4.me/qZJ and expenses: http://fwd4.me/qZL

  31. UK = Titanic, sez Tory MP « Better Nation

    [...] for a family business, or who thinks the torture of suspected Al Qaeda or Taliban terrorists is “a bonus”. It’s not even a very tasteful metaphor, when the news is still peppered with the ongoing search [...]





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