I think the problem is so many of the people who go on about the BNP seem to do so out of a love of demonstrating how morally superior they are to their supporters. Change the subject to the question of how to help those supporters and they’ll lose interest.

Good points and a useful counter to the endless demonising of all BNP voters as racists.

Here’s another housing related example. A constituent, who earns below average but wanted to own a flat for himself, took the cheapest option, which was to buy an ex local authority one.

Then two years down the line he is hit by a bill for ‘repairs’ that is almost two years post tax wages. He looks for ways to complain and someone to help. He finds that these ‘repairs’ are driven by Labour Government policy and legislation that exempts councils from laws aimed at Landlord extortion. He finds that the council is a Lib Dem-tory coalition and is enthusiastically ripping off people in his position across the borough.

So what to do?

someone should tell Dave “I hate religion esp Islam” Osler about the work religious groups often to do to stick up for the powerless and fight fascists.

@3 True. In many cases.

Shame about this and many similar ones, however.

Indeed.

And this:

http://prophetofdoom.net/pics/Islamic_Terrorism_Timeline_1974/Grand_Mufti_Nazis_group_photo.jpg

@3 and 4

That is about as ridiculous as saying “Jon Venables was atheist, so atheists must be sick twisted kiddy-killers”

Nice piece, good angle, I agree that calling these people idiots isn’t going to change anything, only to change the voters circumstances to make them see there are other options will hit the BNP vote. Enabling them to play victim will only strengthen their resolve.

Totally cjcjc, totally.

The truth about things like, council home allocation should be publicised. Why are councils so reticent to explain how people get housing points? My own was, until fairly recently. So when I told someone (who frankly should have known better) that, no, I wouldn’t get extra points if I was Irish, it would have been useful to be able to point to the evidence somewhere. Just my knowing that it was a ridiculous idea wasn’t enough.

“We also need to help their supporters.”

So how exactly do you propose to do that when unwanted mass immigration has taken our jobs and housing?

Cable St is well past its sell-by date.

What would you say to Judith Popinski the Auschwitz survivor who now says that Muslim immigrants in Malmo threaten the small Jewish community in that city?

Google Judith Popinski if you don’t believe me

What’s so great about Muslim settler colonies?

“What’s so great about Muslim settler colonies?”

The food, and lack of you.

“The food, and lack of you.”

You’ve forgotten………..

grooming of English girls

Cruel slaughter practices – which gives you the sloppy stews you slobber over

Terrorism

Book-burning

Burkas

Primitive religious obscurantism

Heroin importation

Pakistanis, Somalis, Turks, Bangladeshis draining the benefit pool(IPPR report)

Anti-semitic attacks on Jews

and whatever else “enriches” your little existence and makes it so “vibrant” Lee

That’s some pretty racist bilge there Roger, seriously, one sided, vulgar and myopic.

“…………to demonstrate in the most practical way possible why our values are superior to theirs.”

And you have the gall to parade yourself as anti-fascist?

Why don’t you start by checking the mirror each morning and ask yourself why a lady in Lincolnshire who heads an Afro-Caribbean Group, is acceptable by some as saying she thinks BNP should not exist, yet if a white Englishman wanted to form a group (in England) for indigenous Britons, he is called ‘racist’ and ‘fascist’ despite he is the same man who’s father fought fascism in order that the Afro-Caribbean lady and you, could freely demonstrate your pathetic political beliefs which are built on nothing but lies and hatred for British people.

BTW Liberal morons

“Benefits” of mass immigration

The HOL Select Committee was unable to ascertain any net economic benefit.

Terry Coleman, who bravely told us that we are set to become a minority in our own country, calculated this “benefit”as the equivalent of one Mars/week each.

However since the economic meltdown, which is still in its initial stages, our per capita GDP has declined by £281.

So much for being “enriched”.

Only a lefty half-wit would fail to recognise that there isn’t any money for an extensive public housing programme, and that the private builders are struggling too. Lefty clowns also obtusely refuse to recognise that we need all the agricultural land we have and, then some, for food production.

Any of you idiots noted that the trade deficit figure has come in at £8 billion for the latest month?

One might as well talk to a wall.

Oh great, BNP thread once again draws BNP supporters.

Rugfish:

Don’t start me on indigenous, that in itself is a complicated business with all kinds of awful connotations of racial purity, never mind the fact that there are no indigenous people of the UK, the gene pool is far more complex than that, unless you only want people here related to the Beaker People?

“That’s some pretty racist bilge there Roger, seriously, one sided, vulgar and myopic.”

But sadly for you, it’s true

No Roger it is not, I hate to break it to you but Muslim communities do not have the solo ownership rights to any of those things, you are also pretty wild and generalised in your assertions here, typical of a racist but still pretty outlandish. Plenty of white Christians groom English girls and boys, commit acts of terror, burn books, wear stupid cloths, practice primitive religious obscurantism, trade in drugs, drain benefits and are anti-Semitic.

And just because you’re a cultural moron that doesn’t dig a wide range of foods, don’t take that out on those that make it.

Entrenched racism at its best from you Roger.

Was Jon Venables Muslim, Roger?

Blanco, it is a waste of time arguing with racists, the very premise of Roger’s nonsense is incorrect and flawed, he is making broad brush struck smears of an entire religious group born not out of reality but deep-set personal prejudice.

It is not a matter of facts and evidence but a matter of hate and arguing with that is all but pointless.

…the sloppy stews you slobber over

Hate curry, do you?

I can’t think of any attitude less British than that. Deport the blighter!

yet if a white Englishman wanted to form a group (in England) for indigenous Britons, he is called ‘racist’ and ‘fascist’

Try looking here.

Daniel, as far as I’m aware, indigenous is nothing to do with ‘race’. It is simply a name to describe the most earliest settlers to a place, and that ‘just happens’ to be us.

The same argument of race is never put to any other nationals. Ask Japanese or Chinese or Indian of African who are the indigenous peoples of ‘their’ countries and I think you’ll get the same reply…..i.e. “us”.

Dunc, I’m afraid I can’t understand your post. What is “here” in red font all about is it to mean something to me?

And as for my own political persuasion, I have none. I am simply a patriot who has a long line of patriots before me who are now dead having fought and died to make this country ENGLAND.

@DHG That might be the case, but I still want an answer from Roger:

Was Jon Venables Muslim?

Were the murderers of Baby P Muslim?

Was Hitler Muslim?

Stalin?

The Pope?

@23 Rugfish, have you died to make this country ENGLAND?

Why not?

You’re obviously not a true patriot, are you?

@25 If yuou said something humorous it may be worth my while responding to a pretty stupid argument you just made, but since you didn’t I won’t.

Well said, rugfish. Someone has to stand up for OUR rights, and that is the BNP.

The comments on this article have shown exactly how correct its main point is.

Take away the attempt to play on genuine concerns of about poverty and all you have left is racism. Unfortunately this will always attract a small number of people, but they are easily confused and, as with anyone motivated by prejudice rather than reasoned argument, prone to swivel-eyed ranting.

@27 Anne,

Thank you Anne.
It appears there are a few who think nationalism/patriotism is a race thing. However I have been chatting for over an hour this morning to a guy in India who was asking me if I had any information as to whether he was allowed to join the Bangladesh National Party. Funny thing is I did and I was able to help him. I am also in contact with nationalists in America, Australia, Canada, Greece, Holland, France, Italy, Spain and Portugal, who all happen to have the same political argument against Fascists who would sooner not hear their argument which is simply versus globalism in its many forms. Hardly what you might call fascist is it to be against a fascist ideology which wants to stifle debate with a claw hammer!

And as for my own political persuasion, I have none.

Bull. Shit. It was bullshit even before you declared your “nationalist” politics in post #29.

Also, good to see that you’ve gained the support of BNP supporters directed to this thread (#27).

And as for my own political persuasion, I have none.

Bull. Shit. It was bullshit even before you declared your “nationalist” politics in post #29.

Also, good to see that you’ve gained the support of BNP supporters directed to this thread (#27).

Dunc, I’m afraid I can’t understand your post. What is “here” in red font all about is it to mean something to me?

Damn, my rapier wit foiled by a broken link… Let’s try it again:

Try looking here.

Col. Richard Hindrance (Mrs), VC, DSO & Bar Six, KitKat:

Good of you to notice. I see you have a keen eye for quality when you see it.

rugfish:

Can I first call you up on your weak claim to have no political persuasion when your blog clearly evidences this to be the opposite, you have BNP supporters as followers and the tone of your blog and content is that of a BNP supporter.

Be proud of your political beliefs or do not bother to carry them at all.

Indigenous has plenty to do with race for goodness sake, it also has plenty to do with science and also with outmoded ideas of national identity.

This us you use I presume is exclusive? I also presume that you talk of earliest settlers but I doubt you have Beaker People DNA? Do you see how bizarre, pointless and destructive it is to bang on about the idea of indigenous?

And I’d leave other countries out of it if I were you, the blessing of the UK is its diverse gene pool and tolerance for those from elsewhere, we are a mongrel nation, composite of much, this defines us, not small minded, backward ideas of indigenous.

Nationalism is a basic, outmoded and corrupt idea based on lines drawn in the sand, mostly by white people, in recent history. If you want to get proud about that and in turn get divisive about that, then that is your right but don’t imagine for one second that such limited scope of thought is anything but pointless and destructive.

Indeed I do, Mr Fish. That’s what Sandhurst training can do for a man (Mrs).

However, I also have a keen nose for bullshit, and it is this to which I was responding. There is no quality apparent in your posts, which is why you’ve attracted the support of a BNP mouth-breather.

Good day to you.

34. Daniel Hoffmann-Gill

Fair enough, you actually got by there without calling me a fascist or a racist so that should mean something, which I actually can applaud. Well done to you for that.

As to the rest of what you say, I agree with some of it and argue with some, but clearly as far as a ‘political persuasion’ goes, and we can differ on this, I do not see a desire to maintain the country I was born in along with all my ancestors before me back to 800AD, can possibly describe me as not being indigenous to this island I call Britain and that has nothing to do with ‘race’ or ‘politics’.

As for whether this or whether that in your argument, it is an argument that’s all. You have made a political argument of how YOU perceive this country to be and you do not speak for me. Happy? Now I will move on and I’ll be sticking a cross on a ballot paper with a party which ‘just happens’ to share my views. (Like you will do). Only I can do without the name calling for exercising my judgment in accordance with my conscience as that would only be something a fascist would be guilty of doing.

Peace to all therefore.

If he had died he would not be typing a re-post now would he?
If the Almighty were to rebuild the world and asked me for advice, I would have English Channels round every country. And the atmosphere would be such that anything which attempted to fly would be set on fire.

An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last.

Only I can do without the name calling for exercising my judgment in accordance with my conscience as that would only be something a fascist would be guilty of doing.

You see, there you go again with the taurine excrement.

I think you’ll find that “name-calling” – or sledging as we say at Lords’ – is a long-established part of the democratic process. It’s a far cry from “fascism”, which would either employ armed thugs or the force of the state in order to prevent you “exercising your judgment in accordance with my conscience”

You see? Very different thing. Very different thing altogether.

Now – you may like to think of yourself as “non-political”, but this is clearly nonsense. You are neither apathetic nor unwilling to participate in the political process and you hold what almost everyone with a smattering of knowledge of the subject would call “political views.”

The question then remains: What is it about frothing “nationalists” who believe in racial separatism, racial discrimination and adhere to half-baked 19th Century fairy tales about “nationhood” that makes them believe their views are mystically guided by something other than political conviction?

And why do such people get so angry when they are accused of racism?

Your worldview is centred around race and racial myths. If you are ashamed of this – even unto rejecting the word that describes it – then perhaps you need to rethink your worldview, instead of sinking into denial.

rugfish:

I do not need underhand compliments from a supporter of the BNP.

And we return to indigenous, a strange and tiresome obsession. You say you can draw your heritage back to 800AD and all of those in your DNA line are pure British are they? Why stop at 800, surely those of us that can draw a line back further have a right to label you as non-indiginous surely? You are a late comer to these shores by those who have been here since pre-BC are you not?

The point is, this indigenous stuff is subjective, un-scientific and frankly, bollocks.

Vote for who you want, but look closely as the policies of parties such as the BNP and ask if they are at all workable in a real world were such things as blood line are as outdated as penny farthing bikes.

I thought you said good day Colonel Kitkat. Perhaps you’re unable to follow your own gutter language but I surely can.

And a good day to you Mr Chips.

Daniel Hoffmann-Gill,

But it isn’t ‘me’ who has mentioned “bloodlines”, “race” or any of the tripe you think you would like to pin on me is it?

I think you must think I’m unable to read what you write or will somehow be gifted with your absolute correct vision of the world if you just keep hurling more utterances of the same ilk my way, but I guess me telling you that you’re just plain wrong wouldn’t work.

How about I don’t care? Will that suit you better?

BNP Troll Rugfish: fuck off back to under the stone whence forth you crawled. Cunt.

rugfish:

You accuse one person here of not being true to their word and buggering off but then do the exact same thing yourself after you intimated your departure in 36?

And are you seriously trying to separate the idea of being indigenous from bloodlines (ie: DNA) and race? You cannot have your racist cake and eat it, by all means propose backward views on outmoded concepts of being indigenous but do not duck that such terms come with serious implications.

I’m not quite sure why you’r here, perhaps to drive traffic to your far-right blog? Or more clearly, to defend the BNP, your party of choice.

Its remarkable how BNP supporters manage to spend so much time online. Have Your Say columns everywhere are full of them, they’re like an internet rash. Given their leaked membership was about 10,000 they must spend a lot of time googling “darky” or whatever they do. How do they find time to do it while holding down a job?

Ha! Excellent point Yurrzem!

“they’re like an internet rash”
Then your type must be like internet Aids.
Most BNP members are Patriotic and so care about their country so you might find them sticking up for it, theres nothing wrong with that is there, i mean we have Pakistanis going back and to the deserts of iraq,afghanistan and elswhere to kill British soldiers.

Never mind whether we approve of the BNP or not. Something truly horrible is happening here in this country, this week, now.

Take a look at this news article:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/8558044.stm

A government-funded quango is taking a political party to court, just weeks before an election, to force it to accept “members” whose stated objectives are to wreck the party. Think about that. The government is trying to prevent a legal democratic party from contesting the election, and from putting its views to the electorate.

Those views may be repulsive. They may be extreme. I don’t, myself, care if it stands for the compulsory castration of all men aged 11 and above. That isn’t the point.

This is about democracy. In a democracy any group of people can get together, draw up a programme, and put it to the electorate. And they will lose their deposit, of course.

This is an intra-socialist quarrel. The BNP is targetting labour voters. Mandy (for it sounds like him) must be terrified of losing seats in the north. Because trying to win by disabling your foe, not by campaigning, but by making it illegal for it to stand, that’s pretty desperate. It’s a new low in British politics.

If it succeeds, why vote? What’s the point, when all the candidates have agreed in advance that only certain issues may be in question? You may as well buy semtex, if you want your voice to be heard — and indeed we keep seeing stories in the press of desperate and ignorant white youths doing just that and being nicked. The next ones will be more clever, and more destructive. That’s why we have democracy — the alternative is autocracy, tempered by assassination. Is that what we want?

I can find no outcry. I can see only predictable rubbish on BNP-backing sites. But this isn’t about the BNP. It’s about anyone who ever dared question the establishment. It’s about democracy.

And … isn’t it terrible to see those who believe themselves liberal conniving at the destruction of democracy? That “Equality” now means tyranny?

LOL @Democrat and the other pathetic BNP supporters who parrot the line “I dont support the BNP but… I will do everything I can to promote their views in liberal-lefty internet forums”

Rob you have it spot on, by all means believe the BNP’s nonsense but to go to a clearly left-wing forum, a place you would never visit in the first place, to vomit out the party line is odd to say the least.

Do these racists believe they will convince us with the strength of their arguments?

It sounds like a good idea, but in practice I think it would be hard for liberal UAF types to be able to have much of a conversation with the kind of people who showed up at a pub in Barnsley last year to hear Nick Griffin.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article6268999.ece

They have had the chance to hear the ”socialist” argument from trades unionists and the likes of SWPers in the town center on a saturday for years, but many have gone for the BNP argument, so the question should be, how is the left failing to get through to those kinds of people?

Help the racists are on my web site and giving an opinion.

Lets call them a troll cunt because we know when we say that a racist/facist/bnp supporter dies.

“I think you must think I’m unable to read what you write”

Since the fellow doesn’t even seem to be able to get my name right, that’s exactly what I think.

As for “Dr.John Stevens” (a doctor of what? Gitology?) – quite why he thinks that hating one’s own country and many of the people who live there is “Patriotic” – and quite why one would cap up something that isn’t even a proper noun – is completely beyond me.

Hates what Britain is and can’t even write English properly – some patriot!

The BNP response upon finding this thread suggests to me that the point of the original artical was completely flawed. I do not think any of the nazis posting on this forum would be inflenced at all by Hope not Hate or UAF types being nice to them and helping with their housing.

What about the disillusioned people who are inflenced by these nazi parasites? I think they need to know that there is an alternative to blaming other folk for your own problems, but is the situation in the sink estates of Barking & Dagenham comparable with the East End of the 1930s?

I think the problem is more to do with Labour moving to a centrist position and abandoning some of its core constituency. All credit to John Cruddas for his efforts to combat the BNP in his consituency, but the whole party needs to re-examine its position.

Good points,

That is what South London Anti-Fascists Group are trying to do in a non-sectarian way. We work with both Hope Not Hate and UAF campaigns to stop the BNP in South London. We haven’t got a website up yet but community organising is key to our work in defeating the BNP and rebuilding the left in a coalition against poverty. For more info on general ideas see http://www.lcap.org.uk

hopenothate and uaf failed to stop the BNP in the eu elections, they will also fail to beat them in the GE.

‘dom’ et al who insist on bringing their BNP trolling here, do remember that 1.6& of the UK population is not a silent majority and while you may feel like celebrating after such gains, it only reflects on the small scale of the ‘victories’ in question.

Good grief, how do they make their way here and to what end.

I am a BNP supporter and I need your help to solve my problems. I used to be a staunch Labour supporter but since they became obsessed with ethnic and sexual minorities and abandoned the white working class, I have abandoned them.
Now, my problems are as follows : -
1. My home town has become a Muslim colony.
2. My son’s best friend and the lad’s girlfriend (both Uni graduates) were beaten up by a car-load of Asians as they walked home one night last year. They were racially abused and told that this was “their town” and that they should get out. The girl – who received a bloody nose – was told that she was a “white slag.” They were lucky to get away relatively unscathed. Police did nothing, of course, even though they were provided with the car’s reg. number.
3. My teenage nephew was chased across town, in fear of his life, by a mob of Muslims.(A few years ago in the same area, a young white lad was beaten to death with baseball bats by a Muslim mob – arrests made but nobody convicted).
4. White girls are spat upon on a daily basis by gangs of Muslim youths and subjected to lewd, racist abuse.
5. Fights between Muslim and white youths have become an everyday event.
6. The local market is full of women wearing burkhas and “peep scarves” to such an extent that it looks like an invasion of Ringwraiths from Lord of the Rings. I, and everyone I know, find this to be extremely intimidating.
7. At Eid, in certain streets, blood flows into the back alleys from the slaughter of lambs.(Ask the local Public Health Inspectors!)
8. If I go into a Muslim shop ( and sometimes it’s unavoidable) they will sometimes quite blatantly serve all Muslim customers before serving whites.

This is just a sample of life in a Northern mill-town. Now, Mr Paskini – what are you lot going to do about it? To paraphase Star Wars – Help us, Don Paskini…you’re our only hope… well, apart from the BNP.

Fuck me, if that last comment is not the single most damning inditement of a BNP voter mentality.

Unless of course it is a pastiche, in which case, very well done.

Haha, Dave N – you forget to say that Muslim butchers capture your dogs, slaughter them to make them halal, then sell the meat to other Muslims. Your post is like a bingo card of all the racist cliches made against Muslims in the Uk and against other minorities in times gone by!

Dave N – the actual truth is that all of that stuff happens to brown Muslims in northern towns, very little of it to white working class people.

Oh and your son went to university? He didn’t get past GCSEs, mate, according to the statistics.

Daniel Hoffmann-Gill:

The scientific truth about the homogeneity of the British people is as far removed from your ignorant nonsense as it could possibly be with it being traced back the Neolithic period and therefore the indigenous status of the British people is sound; certainly when you consider the undisputed indigenous status of the M?ori who have only been in NZ for around 700 years.

Even the EHRC concedes that the British people are indigenous and are using it as an argument that the new BNP constitution indirectly discriminates against non-indigenous civic Britons.

Professor of Human Genetics at the University of Oxford (and a Fellow of Wolfson College) Bryan Sykes, a world eminent scientist and expert proved through a systematic, ten-year DNA survey of more than 10,000 volunteers:

* The genetic makeup of Britain and Ireland is overwhelmingly what it has been since the Neolithic period, and to a very considerable extent since the Mesolithic period, especially in the female line.

* The contribution of the Celts of continental Europe to the genetic makeup of Britain and Ireland was minimal.

* The Picts were not a separate people: the genetic makeup of the formerly Pictish areas of Scotland shows no significant differences from the general profile of the rest of Britain.

* The Anglo-Saxons made a substantial contribution to the genetic makeup of England, but in Sykes’s opinion it was under 20 percent of the total, even in southern England.

* The Vikings (Danes and Norwegians) also made a substantial contribution, which is concentrated in central, northern, and eastern England – the territories of the ancient Danelaw. There is a very heavy Viking contribution in the Orkney and Shetland Islands, in the vicinity of 40 percent. Women as well as men contributed substantially in all these areas, showing that the Vikings engaged in large-scale settlement.

* The Norman contribution was extremely small, on the order of 2 percent.

* There are only sparse traces of the Roman occupation, almost all in southern England.

* In spite of all these later contributions, the genetic makeup of the British Isles remains overwhelmingly what it was in the Neolithic: a mixture of the first Mesolithic inhabitants with Neolithic settlers who came by sea from Iberia and ultimately from the eastern Mediterranean.

http://books.google.com/books?id=KDPEteL4L5wC&printsec=frontcover&source=gbs_navlinks_s#v=onepage&q=&f=false

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bryan_Sykes

Hello “John Smith”

First of you seem to have missed what I was talking about, which is that people claiming to be indigenous to the UK need to have carried out extensive research into their DNA to make such claims and I doubt that is very much the case and many people who would consider themselves indigenous Britons have many skeletons in their gene pool, that, if they are idiots, would make them non-indiginous.

I also object a great deal to people utilising ideas of indigenous as a divisive tool to exclude ‘the others’, this is not a route any nation should be taking, with the spectre of the Holocaust, a device built on ideas of indigenous identity and thus of racial purity.

This leads me onto my third and final point which is that many, many people who make up a crucial and integral part of our country are non-indiginous, so any political party who seeks to make that an issue is clearly a bigoted one and an ignorant one at that.

So thanks for the long cut and paste from wikipedia but any party fighting elections on outmoded ideas of indigenous and non-indiginous really isn’t worth the time.

How do they find time to do it while holding down a job?
Yurzem

BNP supporters don’t have jobs. They’ve all gone to low paid immigrants.

As outsiders of Fraudie’s client state they don’t vote Labour either.

Gives a clue as to their socio economic background though.

Hello again “Daniel Hoffmann-Gill” (is the speech mark thing your custom?)

No misunderstanding at all, you quite clearly said: “never mind the fact that there are no indigenous people of the UK… the gene pool is far more complex that” so let’s not descend into dishonest backtracking when you are proven wrong, please.

You were clearly very wrong about that so you should accept at least the possibility that you are wrong about other things too.

Given the fact that “the genetic makeup of Britain and Ireland is overwhelmingly what it has been since the Neolithic period” it is pretty safe to assume that the average Briton does not in fact need any “extensive DNA research” to prove that they are indigenous at all. It is already a fact born out by expert scientific research. In fact another case in point at the foot of this comment proves that.

You only seem to object to Britons claiming indigenous status (and as mentioned with a far better claim then the undisputed Maori) and deem that as ‘divisive’ I haven’t heard such condemnation of the other indigenous groups around the world so I wonder if you are yourself racially motivated and biased? It seems very likely.

Indigenous peoples have every right to associate and politically organise in the face of their potential demographic supplanting, and certainly much more right then the hundreds of different recently arrived ethnic groups and religions that do so without any stigma whatsoever. This country is not only the ancestral homeland and birthright of the indigenous, it was also built over millennia by them into the country it is today that so many others want to benefit from.

The Shoa, as terrible as it was, it was but one mass murder and but one genocide carried out by an alien country, an alien dogma on alien lands and we fought against all of that, losing everything in the process so it is no good attempting to equate Britons with that.

There was a bigger genocide of the Ukrainian Christians carried out by the socialists a decade before the Shoa so by that token all Socialist should be stopped from politics, Labour included. Other countries histories are not this countries future.

Given that the mass immigration into this country has never had a mandate, and especially given that we have fairly recently learned (for sure) that it was carried by Labour Socialists in a contemptuous deliberate act to change the demographics of this country forever and “rub the rights nose in diversity” and especially given the supplanting of the indigenous Britons from their major cities such as London and Birmingham, the indigenous peoples of this country have every right to be very concerned, voice those concerns, and organise politically.

You may not like it, and that is your right. But you have no right to stop it.

“In 1996, Bryan Sykes of Oxford University first sequenced the mitochondrial DNA of Cheddar Man, with DNA extracted from one of Cheddar Man’s molars. Cheddar Man was determined to have belonged to Haplogroup U5a, a branch of mitochondrial haplogroup U. U5a, the specific haplogroup of Cheddar Man, is known to be the oldest truly modern human (not Neanderthal) mtDNA haplogroup in Europe…

As a means of connecting Cheddar Man to the living residents of Cheddar village, he compared mitochondrial DNA taken from twenty living residents of the village to that extracted from Cheddar Man’s molar. It produced two exact matches and one match with a single mutation. The two exact matches were schoolchildren… The close match was a history teacher named Adrian Targett.

Sykes argued that this modern connection to Cheddar Man (who died at least three thousand years before agriculture began in Britain) makes credible the theory that modern-day Britons are not all descended from Middle Eastern migratory farmers…”

Some very good points there John. I personally think it is anti-indigenous racism that fuels all of this contempt and hatred of us, all masked behind an abusurd “anti-racist” mask whilst they even deny our very existance!

Well, mitochondrial DNA is a pretty broad brush. It even varies across the individual body.

The truth is, this is not a debate. None of the BNP nazi scum are going to change their minds on the basis of what anyone says on this forum.

I’m off for a pint of John Smiths.

I doubt that it is racism that fuels the so called ‘contempt and hatred’, but probably just ignorance and ideology. For example multiculturalism is not racist (by definition it encourages the self-identification of individuals as belonging to diverse races) even if it has the unintended effect of ghetoising society through giving power to labels of identity and making these better identities to coalesce around than British or good neighbour.

And for all the fact that many of our biological ancestors have been in Britain for thousands of years (although I know some of mine were Irish and French, and I suspect there will be other immigrant strands) this is merely a fact of DNA. It has no inherent value in terms of argument, since by the same logic the fact I could be descended from say MacBeth (the historical character, not the Shakespearean creation, cool as that would be) does not entitle me to claim the throne of Scotland, despite the fact I may share his DNA (I doubt I do, but you never know…). Apparently half of Cumbria’s men are descended from Genghis Khan (hence the lack of good football teams – they all want to play on horseback?) but this does not make them indiginous Mongolians. If someone whose DNA is west african or subcontinental is born and brought up here, pays taxes and feels British, then they are as indiginous as anyone else. The danger is providing a means by which people can find it more profitable to be ‘Black’, ‘Pakistani’ or ‘White’ than ‘British’. To assume identity is anything other than the way we feel and self-identify is to assume that our DNA controls our thoughts, rather than our appearance and ability to think.

@ Yurrzem!

British homogeneity and their sound claim to indigenous status is a proven scientific fact accepted even by the odious and undemocratic, extremely biased EHRC. I can see you don’t like it, but that’s by the by.

Your device of labelling any indigenous person who wants to exercise their democratic right to associate and politicise as “Nazis” is neither remotely accurate nor remotely effective as stick anymore.

More and more indigenous people are becoming concerned with their future and immigration is one of the major election concerns so labelling all these people as “Nazis” will do you no good at all.

@ watchman

So you subscribe to the theory that only white people can be racist?

I think when we have the regular and highly offensive lie that the British people do not even exist bandied around by non-indigenous people then we have a clear case of racism.

I think when it is OK for every other recently arrived ethnic group to form associations and politically organise in every conceivable area from mental health, to law, to the police through to “Operation Black Vote” but it is deemed as evil and sinister when indigenous peoples want to the same in their own country then we have a clear case of racism.

I think when we have to endure the scorn and hate of non-indigenous peoples who vilify indigenous peoples for voicing their concerns, associating and politically organising then we have a clear case of racism.

I would be very interested in seeing the evidence for your claim that “half of Cumbria’s men are descended from Genghis Khan.” And if you really think that “feeling indigenous” actually makes you indigenous in any sort of reality then you have a very tenuous grasp of science and DNA at best.

But in any case to say that it is irrelevant that the British people are indigenous and have been resident in this country for millennia is rubbish. The British people built this country over millennia and are the key stake holders of its past, and therefore its future. This country is so attractive to foreigners purely because it is the product of the British people and intrinsically reflects who they are. You will notice that Britons and European peoples are not in exodus to any African or Asian states. It is all pretty much one way traffic.

Multi-culturism has no mandate in this country and very little support amongst the ordinary indigenous people. I don’t want to live in a multi-cultural country; I want to live in my own country: A British culture in Britain with British customs and values.. No one asked me if I wanted Multi-culturism, just as no one asked any Briton if they wanted it and I have every right to say I don’t want it and organise in a democratic way to oppose it.

All in all, it is a pretty obvious fallacy in any case as the masses of immigrants who flock here do so for the very reason that this country is British and is not their country of origin, and the asylum seekers supposedly flock here because the British way of life protects them from their persecution from their own countries and its culture.

For years we have to endure the nasty abuse of “Nazi” and the rest from those who have a vested interest in immigration and the complete demographic change of our country be it for political reasons or because they themselves are not indigenous; they do not represent my concerns or the concerns of the indigenous Britons, but purely their own interest which, in many cases, are diametrically opposed to our long term interests. That is their right. But I want someone who represents me and my concerns and the future of my country as a British nation. That is my right.

If you call that racist so be it. I couldn’t care less. And more and more people now feel that way. These smear and label devices all have a shelf life and this racist / nazi / fascist one is rapidly expiring. Especially coming from people that deny our very existence and legitimacy.

Well, the article said that BNP supporters should be helped. I asked for help… and what did I get? Scorn and abuse! Well, there’s a surprise!

All the points I made are true whether you choose to believe them or not makes no difference at all and what it proves to me is that the Left have no answers to what are very serious problems. In fact you deny that the problems even exist!
Now, you unbelievers – Young lad called Steven McLaughlin – ( not sure of the spelling) murdered about ten years back by Asian gang in same streets that my nephew was chased through. I didn’t know him personally but remember it well. Nobody charged. No commemorative plaque. No Daily Mail campaign. No documentaries. In fact, unlike that other Steven, no publicity at all.
Slaughtered lambs? Well-known fact backed up by a chat with a senior Ribble Valley Public Health Inspector who told me it was a major concern. I also spoke to a Irish lorry driver who delivered the sheep to the front door of the terraced houses! He said he had never seen anything like it and told me he couldn’t believe it when he was given the multiple delivery notes.
My lad’s mate and his battered “slag” of a girlfriend are now married ( and what a good “do” that was!) and have wisely moved out of the area. For other events – just read the local papers or contact the Hate Crime Unit of Lancashire Constabulary. (Stats. show that whites are more likely to be victims of racial incidents, by the way – not that you’d ever accept this fact).
In fact, you lot wouldn’t actually recognise the truth if it jumped up and slapped you in the face with a dead fish! You don’t want it to be true as it goes against everything you have been led to believe, so you just persuade yourselves that it is some sort of fascist propaganda. I suggest you come and live in one of the culturally enriched Lancashire mill-towns for a while. Walk round the towns, talk to people, read the local papers. You would soon have your eyes opened!
Oh, here’s another I just remembered – a young girl I know drove into the wrong street in Burnley – about four years back – and found her route blocked by Asian youths who surrounded her car. They then proceeded to bang on the windows, boot and bonnet until she managed, terrified and crying, to reverse and escape. Police, again, did nothing.
So, still no offers to help us poor, uneducated, knuckle-dragging BNP supporters, then? Nothing? No suggestions? Thought not. How can you lot help anybody when you don’t even acknowledge that the problems exist? Show us poor sods your superior values? Don’t make me laugh!
That’s me finished for now, so you can all go and put your heads back in the sand – that’s if they will stretch all the way down from your ivory towers. Catch you later, leftie dudes!

still no offers to help us poor, uneducated, knuckle-dragging BNP supporters, then?

We’ll help you jump off a cliff, if you like.

No doubt your poor spelling, grammar and punctuation are due to a lack of education that you blame on there being 72 different languages spoken in a class of 30. Hold on, when you were a kid back in the good old days, there were no immigrants.. so your inability to grasp the English language is not only ironic, it’s also entirely your own fault – just like every other “problem” you want others to sort out for you.

“That’s me finished for now, so you can all go and put your heads back in the sand – that’s if they will stretch all the way down from your ivory towers. Catch you later, leftie dudes!”

So you won’t be back then?

I’ll believe that when I see it. Your kind can never keep away, you’ve got nothing else in your lives other than trolling here.

“you’ve got nothing else in your lives other than trolling here”

Says the man who is, well trolling here…

BTW, don’t right-wing cunts talk about how they are “wealth creators”, “successful” etc? Funny how they stop slagging the working class off when there’s a chance to divide us amongst ourselves.

I’m black, I live in Stoneyholme and I’ve never had any trouble. I remember before Asians started living here I used to get bullied, then I became good mates with them once they came into our class. And I’ve got more than enough reasons tohate whites, actually, by your “logic”. But I don’t.

How am I trolling? I agree with most of the articles posted here, this site is written for people with views like mine. So it is a good use of my time to read it, but why do the BNP bother? Why?

I wouldn’t worry too much about the reaction to your comments here; mostly the responders are capable of neither reason nor honesty.

These nasty hypocrites love of diversity always ends at opinions. For the grave offence of holding a differing view one would see you as a “troll” and the other would see you dead.

I have already shown how another one lied all through the thread until I confronted him with expert evidence; and then he gave an angry blast for being presented with reality over the myth and simpered off rather then face difficult debate like a man, let alone a principled man.

All vested interests here. And not for the good of us.

Above addressed to Dave N.

@Bernard

Maybe they spend so much time writing bad English on lefty-liberal threads because they believe the entire machinery of the state (the government, the BBC, the media, etc) is against them, and they are uneducated and lazy, so they don’t have jobs – so they have the time to troll?

Just sayin’.

@ Rob Tennet

Coming from a man who wants to murder people with different opinions, the trolling accusation is kind of disingenuous.

Just sayin’.

You’re quite right, Rob Tennant. Also, despite their belief that they are the silent majority, few people are prepared to listen to their tedious shit in real life. If so many people secretly agree with their views, why did they only get 6% of the vote? What will they say when they lose in Burnley, in Stoke-on-Trent Central, and everywhere else? Even the frigging Green Party is more likely to get a seat than them.

“mostly the responders are capable of neither reason nor honesty”

Why talk to us then? Why?

And am I not an indigenous person, or are you pretending you don’t mind me not being white because I’m not a Muslim?

Rob Tennant – No, my shockingly appalling spelling, grammar and punctuation are the direct result of being taught by a series of commie teachers, who, being true lefties, told everyone who would listen that correct spelling, grammar and punctuation didn’t matter in the least and in fact were a sign of elitism. Funny how lefties, when they have no answers, suddenly forget all that and attack people for poor grammar, spelling and punctuation! (Please feel free to highlight any mistakes in red ink and I will, of course, write the corrections in the margin).
Now, when I’s a lad, there were one or two darkies about – but they were few and far between. They hadn’t set up any colonies and there were definitely no Ring Wraiths or Dementors floating eerily around the market. The only languages spoken at school were English and Lancashire dialect. Nobody had blown up the London Underground, and nobody had heard of FGM, honour killings or forced marriages, either. (117 forced marriages in Oldham currently being investigated – see the Oldham Chronicle for details).These delights of cultural diversity were yet to come.
Now, as for the problems I pointed out – I’m not asking for your help. I am merely pointing out that you lot cannot possibly help BNP supporters (which is what the article suggested you lefties should be doing) because you have no answers – and you have no answers because you won’t even acknowledge that the problems exist.
Come on, give me reasons to abandon the BNP. Tell me how voting for anybody else will make things better for my colonised town. Show me how you intend to “sort out the problems” and how your values are so superior. If all you can offer is to throw me off a cliff then you have really lost the argument, haven’t you?
Now, that rings a bell. Throwing people off cliffs…I get it now… you’re a Muslim, aren’t you – and you think I’m gay! Well, I suppose we do have to respect your culture and religion, don’t we…. otherwise you’ll blow us all up! Anyway, I’ll get me parachute ready. They say Beachy Head is best but then St Bee’s is more local – though it might frighten the gannets. Perhaps Blackpool Tower would do instead. I’m free on Sunday afternoon. What do you think?

Lol, the BNP/KKK troll wants to accuse others of murder. Hey, your BNP mate Dave Nazi wanted us to help. You’re too lazy to work and then when immigrunts take low-paid jobs cleaning up after your lazy fat arses, you complain and try to lynch them. The only suggestion any sensible person would make is that you protest against the anti-white BBC/Labour police state by setting yourself on fire! If you did that, you would make politicians pay attention to you, you attention-seeking baby, much more than voting for the BNP ever will!

Bernard,

The BNP’s support has doubled recently according to the Metro.

10 years ago the BNP had no elected officials whereas today it has over 100 councillors, 1 GLA seat, 2 MEP’s and is set to take over the council of Stoke and Dagenham as well as possibly gaining at least one MP.

A remarkable achievement by any standard within a decade, but more so when you consider the establishment parties unified hate as well as the unified NUJ lead media smear campaigns of unprecedented scale.

As for why have I commented here: Why not? Why shouldn’t I? Can you not handle debate? You post about the BNP but really expect no one from the BNP perspective to comment?

The comments policy of this blog doesn’t state anywhere that dissent is banned.

In fact quite the opposite “We believe in freedom of speech…we welcome constructive scrutiny of our views.”

So I think it is you who needs to revise your position on my right to comment and also consider this part of the policy that bans “abusive, sarcastic and troll-ish comments” with your friends call for the murder of people with differing opinions and the part of the policy that bans “off-topic, diversionary or trollish comments” and see how that applies to your rather ludicrous “are you pretending you don’t mind me not being white because I’m not a Muslim” emotive.

rob tenant,

As pointed out above you called for the murder of someone with differing views.

Try and justify that how you like but “Dave” was not acting the instructions of the BNP and the BNP had liability whatsoever for him or his actions. Whereas you are responsible for your own actions and statements.

The left do have current responsibility for at least one illegal war and another ongoing one in which hundreds of thousands have died.

We could play those games all day long. It is not debate though and clearly you are not here for debate. You are here to troll and you are breaching the comments policy of this site, which clearly defines you as a troll.

@Daniel Hoffmann Gill

“In real life we do not choose between right and wrong,but between two evils”
George Orwell.

Although not being a member or having voted for the B.N.P.—I cannot claim that I either support everyone of their views,nor do I reject all of them.
There are people such as myself,who will support UkIP,Geert Wilders and various other organisations and individuals such as I.F.P.S, / Mark Steyn / and the views of certain anti-Islamization,nationalist entities.
Where they over lap with the B.N.P. is becoming irrelevant because althought the B.N.P are not as squeaky clean or untainted by past baggage as I would like them to be—present events such as the infiltration of European political parties,in particular Lib/Lab/Con by Islamist organisations in Britain and other institutions such as police ect.ect.have begun to eliminate the hedonistic moral luxury of prioritizing anti-Muslim xenophobia as a major threat to the nation or for that matter even classifying it as “racism”.
Just so you know were I stand.I believe the greatest threat the continuing existence to western civilization that ever stalked the Earth have been and are—-those who I describe as the Religious Left and specifically the 68 campus radical “new conformists”–although Orwell detected the roots of that trend in his critical essays,where he observed….

“certain portions of the British academic “intelligencia” placing Nazism and Communism on the same moral plain as Democracy”.End Quote.

That was until Hitler attacked Russia of course:Mmm…flirting with the enemy again I see.
He also noted their overwhelming anti American—anti-British stance.
The left have habitually by reflex taken the side of every anti-western genocidal dictator as a matter of principal.Mao and Stalin come to mind.

Any conceivable adverse effects that the B.N.P could have upon society are dwarfed by the 1.6 Billion Islamic population and its 30+million growing demographic and political influence in Europe.According to my perception,we have four or fives election cycles and 25 years maximum before reaching the point of unaviodable “civilizational compromise”at best ,and Lebanon style civil war as more likely–even without the existence or influence of the B.N.P.
It will be at that point where the “Left”will suddenly reprogram their computer chip,and recognising they have been complicit in the creation of a Frankenstein monster who is turning upon their creator having no need of him any longer and fight it or emigrate an masse in abject panic.

Are your views on the matter of indigenous peoples confined to British people,or do they include all Europeans,or perhaps all white people.?
Do you believe that North and South American Indians,Australian Aboriginies,Maori,Tibetans ,Chinese,Japanese,Scandanavians have no more right to claim indigenous status than Britons—or do you believe they have more right?
Do you believe any ethnicity,culture has a right to preserve its blood
-line,ancestory,history,traditions,culture and shared norms and values.
Do you believe that it is immoral or ignorant if one wishes to do so?
Do you believe that an indigenous and homogenous people can prevent the dilution and erradication of such things under all and any circumstances,including immigration into their midst by a vastly foreign culture?

Is “racism”—an adequate description of your ideology because your belief expresses overwhelmingly a contravention of the (United Nations Charter on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples— according to whose articles and criteria–the British people are an indigenous race,and also the changes taking place in British society due to immigration are in contravention of several of the Charters articles,which when applied to any culture would be a contravention of internation law.

This charter recognises race,blood-line,ancestory,geography,history,gene-pool and many other factors that contribute to a society over time evolving a recognisable homogenous identity.
It also recognises the universal benefit of a society to maintain this trait,and the destructive effects if not respected.,such as ghettoization,fragementation,balkanisation,cultural identity crisis,and civil war,which could create regional instablity.

This international institution does not agree with your assesment that:

“Nationalism is a basic,outmoded,corrupt idea,based on lines drawn in the sand,mostly by white people ,in recent history.”

And neither would anybody with a resonable grasp of history.
Because if one were to put that “meme”into practise,it would cause utter chaos, civil strife and war on a global scale.Such a philosophy is a theoretical,idealistic,utopian,projection,which is in contradiction with the socialogical sciences and conclusions.
You may not have been happy about the collapse of the U.S.S.R.But the Poles wanted to be Poles,and the Hungarians wanted to be Hungarians,and the Czeks wanted to be Czeks.Do you have some kind of issue with that.?

“based on lines drawn in the sand,mostly by white people in recent history”

It’s old whitey again its it.Is there anything he didn’t invent.Is there any crime he is not guilty of.?

The Chinese,the Middle East,the North Africans,and the peoples of the Indian sub-continent where forming nations based on race,ethnicity,blood-line,geography,religion and other factors when Europeans were still living in caves.
Ask any professional anthropological sociologist.Nationalism is not a primitive,outmoded,abstract,unnatural,concept.
It is an evolved,organic “Hard Wired” tribal instinct. A nation is a manifestation of the “Extended Family”.
Xerxes,Alexander the Great,Ceasar,Mohammed,Ghengis Khan,Napolean,Hitler,Stalin and yes…..the British,French and Spanish empires,had no more respect for the concept and integrity of national borders or indigenous communities than you do.

The danger of the wheeling out the “Holocaust”–as dreadful as it was–to the point where it is now on par with the Crucifixion as a religious icon representing a modern day version of collective guilt or “biblical mortal sin”—-whenever immigration into white societies is debated is dangerous to the point of criminal negligence.
It is dangerous because it enforces the belief that the concept of the “inferior other”
or “politicised xenophobia” is….

1)A concept invented by white civilization.

2)An emotion only white skinned people are capable of.

3)That it is an purely an abstract,intellectual concept and not instinctively hard-wired.

4)That if all white communities are reconditoned not to strive to preserve and indentify their culture as being an extension of their geography,history,myths,legends,blood-line,ancestory,religion,tradgedies,triumphs and shared norms and values…

……..that those other ethnic and religious entities will reciprocate.Or even that they are at a comparable level of self-reflective ,cultural sophistication that they would ever even be capable of doing so.
In other words.the danger is…through some form misplaced white guilt and atonement for past sins real or imaginary,that we will enact a form of “Unilatteral Cultural Disarament”.
And we will incrementally be hollowed out from within,one slice at a time.

I would be interested to know Daniel,when the rest of the non-white nations of the world and those ethnic/religious groups that live among us, will simultaneously fall in line and dump all these “outmoded artificial constructs.?
If not,some time this century,there may be a vacuum that you have aided and abetted in creating as a kind of legacy.And future generations may pay in blood for your idealistic perfectionist self-gratification.

And I thought a quote would clarify some things.

“But what is British ethnicity.Patriotism is more than just love of some particular countryside.It is a spiritual concept that recognises that each of us represents a link in a chain stretching into our past and leading to our future.
Acknowledging the struggle and sacrifice of previous generations,acts as a spur not only to safeguarding our achievements but to emulate them.
The “Lie” is that there is no racial basis for nationhood.Instead we will get the “inclusive”patriotism that declares that any featherless biped that happens to be born here and is capable of passing a citizenship test,is not just a citizen but totally British.
The phrase “Our Country” has a resonance that trandscends politics.
It means more than just regarding our nation as just a geographic piece of land with no more meaning or significance than any other.
It is a sense of belonging,a shared history,ancestory and common blood-line.
A feeling that we belong to a people who are special and unique.

You may not be able to comprehend or sympathise with the sentiments echoed in the above quote.But paradoxically,I believe most immigrants will be able to.

I–we, are not the keepers of our inheritance,we are the temporary custodians who are here to defend it and pass it on to future generations.

We defend our tribe—and the tribe is our family,our friends,our street,our village,our region,our nation,our past and our future.
It is the most natural thing in the world.

I think there are many who would say quite rightly—you want it,just try and take it.

Thanks for your attention.
Any thoughts would be welcome.

Should I join the BNP then? What would they make of me if I, a black man, showed up at one of their meetings?

4. journeyman
Good grief, this is what always happens to BNP threads, they become full of BNP fans who vomit their bile everywhere.

I recognise “John Smith” as BNP bloggerThe Sentinel, a chap currently trying and failing to smear me as a rapist, pedophile amongst a whole other long list of such things. He is also, as regular readers of Lib Con will know, responsible for pretending to be me and others here leaving offensive comments.

Not a pleasant chap at all and full details on him can be foundhere and also here.

Journeyman:

I have no idea why you felt the need to direct a long missive at me?

You have a fear of Islam and I do not.

You have a fear of some “new conformists” and I do not.

You have a fear of this imaginary left you have conjured and I do not.

You have a fear of an imagined overwhelming anti American—anti-British stance and I do not.

You equate the left with Stalin and I do not.

You equate a BNP government with being no worse than what is happening regarding your fictional, hypothesised Islamic invasion. Again, more fear.

You enquire regarding my ideas on Britain having an indigenous population, taking them all out of proportion and building a strawman the size of Jesus Christ atop a Rio de Janeiro hill. I think ideas of indigenous-ness are backward and divisive and as someone who is a composite of German Jew and Anglo-Saxon, in a long term relationship with a South African of Indian-Coloured descent with Namibian in the mix; I care more about mixing and of making something better than petty ideas race so others can be excluded.

I err on the side of being kind, generous and supportive rather than cruel, distrustful and negative.

Preserving blood lines is as pointless and reductive as those idiots who will not let their children marry out of their ethnic group.

Hopefully, over time, these ideas will melt away as we understand that such petty concerns are not worthy of humanity, bigger fish to be fried.

Your words are that of someone scared, frightened by the rapid changes of the modern world, that is fine, you can have your fear and all the negative off-shoots of that fear but me and many others will be looking forward, not back and seeking a better sense of unity, compassion and understanding.

I am not scared.

@bernhard (85)

Well,let me say first that I wanted to take things step by step.
Thats why I challenged Hoffmann Gill’s attempt to selectively delegitimise the British as a country without a truely indigenous ethnic group.
I percieve such propaganda as a form of racist psychological warfare with the ultimate aim of stripping them of their entire historical identity.
Its a form of cultural rape,which could lead within the next few generations to the original settlers being dispossed of their rights to remain as the majority culture and preserve self-determination in their homeland.

And as to your question.Well–I am not a member of the B.N.P.
But I can clearly see the dilemma.I wouldn’t assume for a minute that there are any easy answers or clear dividing lines.
There is the optimum ideal solution which could be the aim of reverting to 1948 or sometime when Britian was mostly culturally ,ethnically homogenous,but I don’t believe thats feasable,on both practical and moral grounds.
So lets imagine we exclude that extreme as a possible outcome.

The other extreme is of course if within this century,indigenous British people become a minority in their own country—and disenfranchised into the bargain–to the great joy,mirth and wonderment of the immigrant communities that any nation could have been suicidally dum enough to accept such self-destruction.(which no other non-white nation would ever remotley contemplate doing willingly in a million years.
The British will be rightly despised by them as a people for displaying such madness.
And they will be the laughing stock of the entire world.

To get closer to your question,I would suggest to the BNP that Britain should consider itself lucky if it does not end up as a quasi-balkanised enclave fragmented semi -Islamised state within the next decades—and after all illegal immigrants,criminals,extremists have been deported,and immigration cut to zero—-that a comprimise will have to be found.
Most non-muslim immigrants—blacks ect ect.appear to have less religious cultural baggage than muslims.
Sikhs,Hindus,Chinese ect either assimilate or are at least less of a threat.

This whole mess took fifty odd years to get into,and it may take fifty years or more to establish some kind of reasonable balance.
The greatest threat is (salami-slice)tactical incremental demographic Islamization.
Death of a thousand cuts.
One of the most difficult things to reverse or even stop are the effects of immigration,although the correct term would be colonization.
The demographic consequences–births rates ect are even more impossible to slow down or reverse.
What we have is nothing less than a runaway train,without breaks or a driver.
It was set in motion to satify the requirements of corporate global capital and is perpetuated by mercenary politcal careerist self-interest ,coupled with leftist anti-western revolutionary campus cafe rhetoric.
It could be much more ethically immoral to do nothing–than to do something.
If—-there does come a day when the whole of hell breaks loose and things begin to disintigrate–looking around for someone to blame will be bitter comfort.

Your question:”Should I join the BNP.”
I can’t answer that.I’m not the BNP or you.
And what would they make of you if you showed up at one of their meetings.
Its all a bit of a mess–isn’t it.
But I think the “law of unintended consequences” is going to have its fun.

Regards journeyman.

John Smith @ 68.

I do think other groups can be racist – I’ve experienced it for a start. And seen it go the other way too, all equally unacceptable. How organising yourself into just another ghettoised community on the basis of an assumed identity deals with racism is beyond me though. Care to explain how that might work?

Anyway, to organise yourself by DNA is no different from organising yourself by say religion or skin colour or indeed football team. It is simply choosing one marker from many, and dividing people up by it. It is no different from opposing those who are not muslims, who are not black or who do not support Leeds.

And if you want DNA to stand for a claim to live somewhere, what the hell are we going to do with all the returning Americans, Canadians, Australians, New Zealanders etc whose DNA (in your view) indicates they have to live in Britain. Or does this logic only apply to white people?

Oh, and if you didn’t get the hint from my last posting, I’m firmly opposed to government using any sort of ethnic identifiers – we are all people, and need not be identified by government as white – English or whatever (for the record, I am a slightly pinky browny shade, rather than being made of alabaster). It is up to us how we self-identify, not the government and not to other observers.

@Daniel Hoffmann Gill (86)

I’m sorry to hear about your expiriences with this “John Smith” or “Sentinel” as he is called.But it has nothing to do with me.I have no contact with any other commentators anywhere whatsoever.I’m strickly a one man show and not affilliated with any organisations of any kind.
I suppose thats partly the hazard of the occupation–as one might say.Or hazard of the internet.

“Good grief,is this what happens to BNP threads”

No Daniel.
Your crowd express the same horror over non-left commentators reactions to Liddle and Black crime rates,the E.U.,Islam,immigration,–or just about any of the major concerns of the general British public.
You always refer to it as “vomit their bile everywhere”no matter what the subject.

“I have no idea why you felt the need to direct a long missive at me? “.

I.m glad you asked.Its because over the last two years of my occasional forays over to L.C–depending on the subject under debate,I’ve noticed your habitual response consist of your standard hallmark typically short comments consisting of a few derogotary simplifications like “racist” or “loony”.
I may not agree with them,but I respect the fact that many commentators here display a scholarly quality and a willingness to put their opinions to the test of debate.
After all, the same people if given the opportunity could at some point in the future have the power to influence my life and that of my people and most likely not for the better.
As a matter of fact they most probably will.
When I saw there was a debate about the future of Britain(The BNP).
I thought to myself—”I wonder if “two-line,fuck-off racist–Daniel Hoffman Gill is there telling everybody that well worn crap about the Britain being nothing more than a kind of floating no-mans land, international train station waiting-room for any mug to pass through and pitch up a tent..,and calling bigot to anyone who disagreed.
And guess what–he was and he did.

I’m sure that you believe that you are fighting the good fight and strive to be a fair and decent human being.Don’t we all.
But if you want to sing the blues—you have to pay your dues—so your going to just have to accept that there are people out there who beg to differ.
Unfortunatley,as history never tires from reminding us–as often as not–the road to hell is paved with good intentions.
I two would like to have your optimism—but I appear to have been mugged by reality.
You have the easier task because at the moment its invogue and with a well established school of ideology behind it.
I find myself on the rougher and lonlier road less travelled by.
I have much more rewarding and less depressing pastimes I would rather be engaged with and would gladly pay a hansome sum to be relieved of my concerns.
But that would be a cheap,hedonistic,egoistic,cop-out to my mind–leaving later generations to pay in full for our folly.
Such a dereliction I cannot find it in myself to do.

By the way-thanks for your reply.
You need not respond.

Regards
journeyman

Well I wasn’t going to check back here because it had already descended into a farce without any substantial debate and my God it has sunk even lower.

Clearly this Hoffmann-Gill character is mentally deranged and making wild accusations to distract away from the fact that I caught him out lying and that he was then unable to confront that with honesty.

I have not even the remotest idea of what he is smearing me about and John Smith is my given name. It is quite a spectacular lie to make, but then I suppose given that he has already been proven as a liar it’s only a short step for him.

Of course you will notice that he offers not one scrap of evidence for his distracting nonsense (yet another who breaches this sites comment policy whilst screeching troll) and that pretty much says it all.

Fantastic nonsense from a deranged liar to distract away from the fact that he has been caught lying and clearly cannot handle it.

What an amazing way to wreck a debate. Hoffmann-Gill has been unable to address the facts and so resorts to this. Even if this “sentinel” had (some basis in existence?) and appeared here and pointed out his lies, they would have still remained his lies and he would still remain unable to address them. And that is all that remains here.

Take your meds, fella, and if you going to be a liar and you don’t have a good memory, at least check your last few comments first.

Watchman,

You last statement sums up our position “It is up to us how we self-identify, not the government and not to other observers.”

We choose to associate and organise along lines that make sense to us. We know that we “exist” and that our ancestors are responsible for the making of this country into something that is so attractive millions want to come here. We know that we are the next link in this chain and that this country is our birth right, not just some debatable concept to be given away.

This country is precisely so attractive because it is a product of the indigenous peoples here. Without us there is no Britain. No country of choice for millions of immigrants. People come here for the very reason it is British and not their homeland. As I said, European peoples are not in Exodus to African and Asian states, which are the product of their indigenous peoples; it is pretty much all one way traffic.

I am not sure why you think that Australians, Americans etc have to live in the UK by virtue of their DNA, that is not something I have said nor the BNP. All that has been intimated is that we are the indigenous peoples of these isles, we can prove that, we can prove that we built this country, we can prove that we are this country and that without us it will become something else. Something that is not British.

We have every right to our opinions and our democratic political process. You may not agree or see it our way. That is fine. Don’t vote for us.

Wait a minute… Are you asserting that the cultural impact of the various groups who have migrated into Britain over the few couple of millennia can be assessed by examining their genetic contribution to the general population? Really?

Just as a parting gesture and last response to the outrageous defamation, I think I will just point out one more blatant lie on the part of Mr Hoffmann-Gill:

In the comment above 10:29 am, March 12, 2010 he pompously claims:

“I err on the side of being kind, generous and supportive rather than cruel, distrustful and negative”

Unfortunately though, he starts off the comment with the complete antithesis of his rather disingenuous and glowing self-assessment on the subject of dissenting comments on contentious threads :

“they become full of BNP fans who vomit their bile everywhere”

Oh dear.

What a tenuous relationship with honesty, and what a dysfunctional attitude to diversity.

Yep, John Smith is The Sentinel alright so that means I’m done here so as not to feed the troll and will unsubscribe myself from comments.

Although do take care folks in your debates with him, he’s obsessed with the last word and if he don’t like you, he’ll call you a sex offender and a rapist, as well as using anti-Semitic insults and obscene sexual abuse directed towards your loved ones.

So it goes, some people have too much hate to give and not enough keyboard time.

My God, what the hell is wrong with you Hoffmann-Gill? I have never encountered you in my life and thank God for it. Are you really so desperate to distract away from your already noted dishonesty that you will make any claim rather then address it?

You need help. You really do.

But go on then, for the benefit of transparency and in the name of sanity I will ask you again, other then the word of a proven liar based upon God only knows what (distraction is my opinion) what single shred of evidence do you have that I am not John Smith (my real name) and am in fact someone called “sentinel” (whom I have never heard of)?

Go on, prove it you idiot. I know you can’t because it’s not true and you know you can’t for the same reason.

And that is why you seem to favour the absolutely bizarre hit-and-run approach of fictional smearing rather then address the reality of the disparity of your statements.

This is just one big surreal debate wrecking device and it firmly places you in breach of this sites comment policy and makes you a troll.

Pathetic and surreal.

John,

“You last statement sums up our position “It is up to us how we self-identify, not the government and not to other observers.””

Other observers include those who identify people as outsiders on the basis of religion or skin colour, or DNA. So my position is not that I am reading from you.

“We choose to associate and organise along lines that make sense to us. We know that we “exist” and that our ancestors are responsible for the making of this country into something that is so attractive millions want to come here. We know that we are the next link in this chain and that this country is our birth right, not just some debatable concept to be given away.”

I’d blame the climate for this country being so attractive myself, but our ancestors undoubtedly contributed something. My query would be why the fact your ancestors made this country means that it is your birth right. Did they not have to work for their rights? And debateable concept? It definitly exists you know – there are idiots who would rather it didn’t, true enough, but I don’t think denying the rather feudal ‘birth right’ argument means you do not believe in Britain. I think it means that you take people on their merit, not their appearance and ancestry.

“This country is precisely so attractive because it is a product of the indigenous peoples here. Without us there is no Britain. No country of choice for millions of immigrants. People come here for the very reason it is British and not their homeland. As I said, European peoples are not in Exodus to African and Asian states, which are the product of their indigenous peoples; it is pretty much all one way traffic.”

Last time I checked this country was attractive because of freedom and prosperity. Are those the result of indigenous peoples? Possibly, but I do not get the point you are making – is it that you (and me I suppose) are superior because our ancestors lived in a state that produced freedom and prosperity, and therefore only we should possess this state?

What I do know is that most African and quite a lot of Asian states are actually products of Europeans drawing lines on maps and conquering existing states, as indeed are most European states at some time or another. States are not organic things, but political creations that develop identities over time. They are certainly not unchanging folk communities, a concept that was challenged before the mid-nineteenth century!

“I am not sure why you think that Australians, Americans etc have to live in the UK by virtue of their DNA, that is not something I have said nor the BNP. All that has been intimated is that we are the indigenous peoples of these isles, we can prove that, we can prove that we built this country, we can prove that we are this country and that without us it will become something else. Something that is not British. ”

You cannot prove you (or I) built this country. You can prove that someone likely to be your (or my) ancestor was alive in this country in the past. But they may have been a royalist in the civil war, a plotter alongside Titus Oakes, a Catholic devotee against Henry VIII plans, a pacifist in World War II. You can’t prove they backed the narrative that actually built our country, only that they lived whilst it played out.

And you say you can prove that without you the country will become something that is not British. There is an obvious invitation here, but I will resist it. Rather you seem to think that British is related to ancestry. But should a black or asian man whose family have been in Britain for 100 years, who feels and sounds British and partakes of British culture not also be considered as one of those who makes the country British. To be British is not to be white (sorry, I cannot accept indiginous as in your usage it is applied to a specific time-scale to sort your political views), but to be British. It is a self-identifying identity, not a construct of race. Look at it another way: there are Scots, Welsh, Cornish and probably Men of Kent who want to be independent, not British. But they are equally ‘indiginous’ as you, just not claiming to be British.

“We have every right to our opinions and our democratic political process. You may not agree or see it our way. That is fine. Don’t vote for us.”

I fully agree with you here, and have never challenged your right to express views I clearly disagree with and think are based on weak thinking. It is not my right to supress your ability to state your beliefs, however silly I may think them. I suspect you would not be able to support my beliefs either, but that is the joy of democracy.

“For example multiculturalism is not racist (by definition it encourages the self-identification of individuals as belonging to diverse races) even if it has the unintended effect of ghetoising society through giving power to labels of identity and making these better identities to coalesce around than British or good neighbour.”

That’s pretty much a textbook definition of racism. If the white “community” (notice how only white people don’t live in communities in the left wing lexicon) use their cutural/ethnic label of identity they would be branded as racists or worse. And if you really believe the (ghettosiation) effect was unitended then you are extremely naive, given that ghettosiation has happened in every place that multiculturalism has ever been tried.

Multiculturalism is just one strand of the “progressive” (i.e communist) agenda to undermine any sense of nationhood (except of course in favoured minorities who are actively encouraged to celebrate their origins in order to make them appear more numerous than they really are) leaving the way clear for everyones only identinty to be defined by the socialist state.

Matt,

It is not racist to develop a situation where racism flourishes. It is just stupid. Racism is simply discriminating against someone due to their race.

I hate multiculturalism with a passion, but I do not think the idiots who support it (if there are any left?) are racist. Just very very stupid.

@98 Perhaps, but muticulturalism only works (as not being racist) if you accept that putting large groups of people with nothing in common right next to each other will cause spantaneous peace and harmony to break out, but why would it ? It doesn’t even when the groups are the same race/culture.

Watchman,

A brief response as I am quite busy and wasn’t really expecting any more sane and reasoned debate from this thread after that surreal nonsense earlier.

“Other observers include those who identify people as outsiders on the basis of religion or skin colour, or DNA. So my position is not that I am reading from you.”

I am not sure of the point being made here. Please elaborate.

“I’d blame the climate for this country being so attractive myself, but our ancestors undoubtedly contributed something.”

The climate of this country is in fact one of the major reasons people choose to leave this country for places like Spain and our ancestors didn’t just contribute “something” to this country, clearly they contributed everything to it. This country is a product of our ancestors.

“My query would be why the fact your ancestors made this country means that it is your birth right. Did they not have to work for their rights?”

My ancestors built this country for themselves and for their family and for both of their futures. The indigenous people are that family and are that future. My parents, grandparents and great grand parents alone, without the millennia preceding them, have contributed massively to the defence and wealth of this country as have pretty much every other indigenous Britons, and just as inheritance works through family ties so does birth right.

The past battles for rights were fought so we didn’t have to. So was the belief, tragically, in the Great War, “the war to end all wars.” Sadly, this has not been the case and the indigenous people are now facing so-called equality laws that allow them (and only them) to be discriminated against in their own land and face a demographic time bomb with the very real prospect of them becoming a disenfranchised minority in their own land.

“Last time I checked this country was attractive because of freedom and prosperity. Are those the result of indigenous peoples? Possibly”

Absolutely. Who else?

“…is it that you (and me I suppose) are superior because our ancestors lived in a state that produced freedom and prosperity, and therefore only we should possess this state?”

I made no call of superiority whatsoever.

And you have already made the point that freedom and prosperity were ‘rights’ fought for by the indigenous peoples of this country; they are not an automatic state as we know.

If peoples in foreign lands want these things then they should fight for them as we did.

If they choose not to do so and to leave their own country in a parlous state and enjoy benefits that our ancestors fought for instead, then they should certainly not come here and demand that we conform to their way of living and standards of freedom, as so many do.

In fact my right and ancient freedom of association on any grounds I choose has been removed because foreign peoples object to it and government has legislated against it.

“What I do know is that most African and quite a lot of Asian states are actually products of Europeans drawing lines on maps and conquering existing states”

That’s right. The British in particular. We have had the most profound impact on the world, its past and its future. And all from such a tiny populace from such a tiny island.

The indigenous people of this country are truly unique.

“States are not organic things”

Some are. This one is. Most islands are. Iceland is another one that comes to mind.

But essentially (and very abridged) nations form when people with distinct commonality bonded together.

“You cannot prove you (or I) built this country. You can prove that someone likely to be your (or my) ancestor was alive in this country in the past.”

As this country is a product of our ancestors it naturally follows (ergo) our ancestors built this country.

Whatever way you want to look at it, this country was built by the indigenous people.

“And you say you can prove that without you the country will become something that is not British. There is an obvious invitation here, but I will resist it.”

I am glad you did because that is not what I said, that I alone shape this country. I said it is the product of our ancestors, the indigenous Britons. And it is.

“But should a black or asian man whose family have been in Britain for 100 years, who feels and sounds British and partakes of British culture not also be considered as one of those who makes the country British”

Well that would a very rare case indeed as most immigrants here choose to live in ethnically centred areas and choose to practice their own customs and culture as testament to the thousands of Black / Asian / etc ‘cultural’ centres across the land as well as the thousands of Black / Asian etc specific organisations ranging in every conceivable area from health to music to police associations to Operation Black Vote.

“To be British is not to be white (sorry, I cannot accept indiginous as in your usage it is applied to a specific time-scale to sort your political views)”

To be ethnically British is, without doubt. Just as if I move to China, I may become civically Chinese but I will never become ethnically Chinese.

“I fully agree with you here, and have never challenged your right to express views I clearly disagree with and think are based on weak thinking”

Funnily enough, I feel exactly the same way about you, watchman!

Matt and John you make some great points

I have never seen the left able to honestly deal with these points without the usual recourse to “wacist”!

Nick Griffin makes an appearance as a dog in this new game:

http://www.politicalgaming.com/

And rob tenant makes another appearance as an off-topic diversionary troll in this thread.

Still, at least he didnt say he wants to murder people he doesnt agree with this time. Thats something I guess.

LOL @ the irony of the KKK-endorsing BNP talking about murdering political opponents. If that’s what gets your juices flowing, try out that game. Off-topic? it’s about beating the BNP (and their friends, the Tories)! And helping their supporters – so they fuck off instead of voting for stupid parties at election time because they’re too thick to get jobs.

Oh dear the NKVD/KGB/Stasi endorsing off-topic troll is angry and is breaking the LC comment policy again!

Not sure if you have noticed through all of your hilarious rage, but the Tories have a front called “Nothing British” dedicated to lying and smearing the BNP, so they are not really friends!

Do you have anything to add to the great debate above or just more of this angry ranting and rule breaking? If you don’t like the rules here, and you are not desirous or capable of debate here why don’t you go and troll somewhere else?

Somewhere where threats to murder people with different opinions are welcome.

Perhaps a Muslim site, the UAF or the Labour party forums.