For, not sor.

And missed the

I would like to say that that proves that I’m neither an idiot nor a scumbag…..but unfortunately it only proves that I’m not sor this particular reason. I’m sure there are many others for which I might be.

Actually, both the 700,000 and the 200,000 figures seriously underestimate the problem, because neither include the people who aren’t working but who would be if doing so was more rewarding.

And even now, some marginal tax rates are over 100%. This is after 13 years of Labour and 18 years of the Tories beofre that. It’s clear that neither Labservative party wants to fix this problem, because both have had ample time to do so if they had wanted to.

@19 Tim Worstall: And yes, those of us who complain about the disincentives to work for the rich from 60% or higher tax rates also make the connection with disincentives to work for the poor facing 60% or higher tax rates.

Indeed. No-one should have to pay a marginal rate of >50%. And anyone who complains about the marginal rates the rich pay but not the even higher marginal rates the poor pay is either an idiot or a scumbag.

What a cunt.”
Sunny you have got to stop Nick Cohen posting on this site. The language.

Apologies if I’ve just picked up the wrong page number. But it is there, in the chapter about “making work pay” or some such.

After the 2008 budget, 200,000 workers pay 70% or more marginal tax rates.”

Two things.

1) It’s not marginal atax rates. It’s marginal tax *and benefit withdrawal* rates.

2) Have a look at the 2008 budget. Page 42 here:
http://www.hm-treasury.gov.uk/d/bud08_completereport.pdf

While the number facing over 70% rates (please note, over, not at) is as you say, the number facing over 60% has more than doubled from 760,000 to 1,875,000.

And yes, those of us who complain about the disincentives to work for the rich from 60% or higher tax rates also make the connection with disincentives to work for the poor facing 60% or higher tax rates.

That’s fine. And I get others coming here asking me why I call myself a liberal when I’m clearly on the far-left. Why don’t you people start a blog called ‘where the fuck is sunny on the political spectrum so we can then trash him for not living up to what we think that means’ – and leave me out of it. The comments are there to have an constructive debate about what is being posted. It’s not for trolls from the People’s Front of Judea. End of discussion. I don’t want to derail the thread. Please kindly bugger off somewhere else.

No I agree, but then again, as I thought I’d made clear, I don’t consider you to be ‘the left’

#What I fucking hate is people coming here telling us what we should be writing#

Well then, why host comments?

#You just come here to take the piss. I’m not interested in hosting that.#

OK, I’ll concede there’s a sardonic edge to some of them, but that’s a pretty massive misrepresentation…and as for..

#If you don’t like it, try socialistunity.com#

guess why I don’t do that…any more

#but there’s nothing worse than another pseudo SWPer who goes around calling other people sellouts#

I doubt I’m any more pro SWP than you Sunny..they’ve gotten the relativist bug too. And I’d only consider you a sellout if you had ever started from a left-wing position..I consider you a liberal..why you insist on this idea of identifying yourself with the left mystifies me..liberal sure..progressive no problem (whatever that means these days..but ‘left’ is stretching things too far.

These posters appear to have hit a nerve.

Yeahuh, because they’re anti-working class and xenophobic. Not to mention playing on unsubstantiated prejudice, as pointed out in the main article.

The BBC one is quite amusing, granted.

How come?

You are doing the trolls work for them Sunny.

Just the one example would suffice…just one..any time’ll do. Which right wing policy I am advocating?

I consider anyone who spends all their time bashing the left as the opposition, naturally.

In brief: a return to universalist socialist principles….

That’s fine. I don’t follow that agenda entirely. Perhaps that makes me a sellout in your eyes. But let me explain – this is a broad centre-left blog. Says that on the top right. Within that remit, we publish a range of content, mostly from the centre left but also the socialist left. Now – the content may not be what you want. That’s fine, I’m not asking everyone to agree with everything that is published.

What I fucking hate is people coming here telling us what we should be writing, and then (people like you) who think we’re sellouts to the left because we’re not hard-left enough. I never pretended to be. I’m not a socialist. See? Never said I was. If you don’t like it, try socialistunity.com – but there’s nothing worse than another pseudo SWPer who goes around calling other people sellouts (which is what you were imply). In all the threads you’ve participated you’ve not actually discussed the actual issue. You just come here to take the piss. I’m not interested in hosting that.

btw..CIF might well be more lenient than you; right up until the point that you start to pull them up on their lack of working class contributors, their addiction to nepotism, their total reliance of middle-class Oxbridge journalists to ‘speak for’ the working class and their insistence on retaining Bea Campbell, Nick Cohen and Dennis McShane as writers..then all of a sudden you’re a repetitive ‘vexacious’ poster.

“I didn’t ban you but you did throw your toys out of the pram and leave in a huff. Perhaps you could do that again? It was most amusing.”

Again..why not link and show all the nice people what a ‘huff’ it was…as I recall it was a good-natured and amicable farewell…In fact..here it is..notice my request for examples of my ‘leftie bashing’…I keep asking..you keep declining..

“OK Sunny..I’ll piss off and bother CIF or something for a while..you’ve convinced me this isn’t the place for me. Nice job mate..get yourself a nice big latte..you’ve earned it. Oh but do please show me any examples of where I’m “slagging off lefties”..this is the third time I’ve been accused of this in two days, and each time I ask for examples, I’m blanked. I think you’ve got a bit of an issue going on here. Basically…it seems to be: take issue with the LibCon editorial line (go on..tell me there’s no such thing) and it means you’re a right-wing troll. Can’t you see the absolute conceit in that position?..no..maybe not.”

“…and then going on to say how you really want the left to do well if only they follow the Right’s agenda.”

Just the one example would suffice…just one..any time’ll do. Which right wing policy I am advocating?

bernard

“Why don’t you regale us all by telling us what you do support, “Ernest”?”

In brief: a return to universalist socialist principles; a recognition by the working class that their right to political representation is not being served by a bunch of hopped up, middle-class radical, Nathan Barley wannabes who never got student politics outta their system and have sacrificed the goal of economic equality in the name of some worthless relativist agenda which benefits nobody but themselves; a representative media that isn’t dominated by Oxbridge graduates who seem to fill every conceivable niche (56% is the last figure I saw quoted for print media journalists); a return to pre 1979 union legislation; and naturally the end of capitalism..

Other than your natural..”well that doesn’t sound like me” a) anything there any reasonable person would disagree with? b) if not…how come Liberal Conspiracy isn’t pushing for that lot?…being such committed ‘lefties’

BenM

“Those nasty libruls had nothing to do with it.”

au contraire Benny boy…well depends on the scope of the phrase “nasty libruls”..tell you what..you tell me who you mean by “nasty libruls” and I’ll tell you why they’re to blame…your definition would of course have to cover someone I’d have a go at in the past.

Sally

“Tory trolls are so like their masters.”..priceless..wouldn’t dream of arguing with you..you’re my favourite.

Whatever problems you seem to be having, they’re self inflicted.

Those nasty libruls had nothing to do with it.

If anything.

Challenge remains open Sunny…show me where my right wing leanings have ever been expressed on this or any other site.

Should just add: Not agreeing with Sunny Hundal and finding the Tory posters more comedically astute than Labour’s is not a sign of right wing allegiance..(in his selective quoting, Don ‘somehow’ neglected to mention the start of my post which described the Tory posters as “beneath contempt”…strange that..go on..take a look)