Tory class warriors: shameless and clueless


6:00 pm - February 18th 2010

by Don Paskini    


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As mentioned earlier by Paul, the class warriors over at Conservative Home have got a new website called mylabourposter, which has pictures of people such as immigrants, burglars, foreigners, the BBC etc., and the caption ‘I’ve not voted Labour before, but‘ and then reasons why these people like Labour.

One of the posters is Frank Gallagher from Shameless, saying “I’ve never voted Labour before, but I can see the benefits”.

One nice thing about these posters is that some of them have an explanation beneath them to explain the joke to anyone who finds the humour a bit too subtle.

For the benefits one, their “fact” is “Labour’s over-complex welfare system means there has been more benefit fraud and less incentive to work”.

Really?

When Labour came to power, £1.7bn/year was lost in benefit fraud. In 2008, less than half that amount was lost in fraud, 0.6% of expenditure.

When Labour came to power, more than 700,000 workers paid 70% or more marginal tax rates, meaning there was little incentive to work. Indeed, some workers actually had marginal tax rates of more than 100%.

After the 2008 budget, 200,000 workers pay 70% or more marginal tax rates.

It’s bad enough that conservatives think their readers are too dim to get their jokes unless they explain them. It’s even worse that their explanation is actually wrong.

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About the author
Don Paskini is deputy-editor of LC. He also blogs at donpaskini. He is on twitter as @donpaskini
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Story Filed Under: Blog ,Conservative Party ,Humour ,Westminster

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Reader comments


“The great masses of the people will more easily fall victims to a big lie than to a small one.” [Hitler: Mein Kampf]

2. Earnest Ernest

There’s no more useful service to mankind than deconstructing and debunking facile spoofs, one-liners and political parodies.

“Jaques Derrida’s body lies a-mouldering in the grave; his soul is marching on”

Please tell me if I’m being shallow and naive but this fascination with a bit of tit for tat political piss taking strikes me as a little sensationalist and overcooked…especially as the posters haven’t been seen outside the confines of a few little visited blogging sites.

3. Earnest Ernest

Bloody hell..you may as well be hung for a sheep as a lamb. if you’re gonna fall at the first post for a Godwin violation, at least go the whole hog.

“These Tory posters expose their vicious fascist instincts and are the sinister equivalent of the worst excesses of Dr Goebel’s diseased imagination”…that kinda thing..

Shorter Earnest Ernest from Paul’s thread (comment 24) : “Tory posters are v funny and left-wingers are all humourless museli-knitters who think laughing is racist”

Shorter Earnest Ernest in comment 2, here: “no one cares about these boring old Tory posters, why do lefties mock them when they should be knitting museli”

Earnest – weren’t you earlier pretending to be a leftie and when I called you out on it, you threw your toys out of the pram and said you’d never visit again? I’m disappointed you didn’t carry out your silly tantrum.

6. Earnest Ernest

I did Sunny..nipped back to CIF..and they fuckin banned me again..you liberals…you do love banning things don’t you?

Challenge remains open Sunny…show me where my right wing leanings have ever been expressed on this or any other site.

Should just add: Not agreeing with Sunny Hundal and finding the Tory posters more comedically astute than Labour’s is not a sign of right wing allegiance..(in his selective quoting, Don ‘somehow’ neglected to mention the start of my post which described the Tory posters as “beneath contempt”…strange that..go on..take a look)

The fact you got banned from CIF too (and they’re more lenient than me) says more about your level of debate than it says about us. You’re a concern troll – coming here telling lefties how they’ve fucked up, pretending somehow we’re all champagne socialists and then going on to say how you really want the left to do well if only they follow the right’s agenda. I get bored of concern trolls – I didn’t ban you but you did throw your toys out of the pram and leave in a huff. Perhaps you could do that again? It was most amusing.

im sure it will get deleted but i pointed out on iain dales blog that the fictional character of Frank Gallagher was born in Jan 1960, therefore making him 18/19 when Thatcher got in, meaning [if were to believe what they’re implying – that he has been unemployed and anti-social his whole life] he spent a good 19 years on the dole BEFORE Labour were elected. So who exactly is to blame for the “Shameless types”?

Why don’t you regale us all by telling us what you do support, “Ernest”?

If anything.

Earnest, honestly, get a life.

Whatever problems you seem to be having, they’re self inflicted.

Those nasty libruls had nothing to do with it.

11. Earnest Ernest

Sunny

“…and then going on to say how you really want the left to do well if only they follow the Right’s agenda.”

Just the one example would suffice…just one..any time’ll do. Which right wing policy I am advocating?

bernard

“Why don’t you regale us all by telling us what you do support, “Ernest”?”

In brief: a return to universalist socialist principles; a recognition by the working class that their right to political representation is not being served by a bunch of hopped up, middle-class radical, Nathan Barley wannabes who never got student politics outta their system and have sacrificed the goal of economic equality in the name of some worthless relativist agenda which benefits nobody but themselves; a representative media that isn’t dominated by Oxbridge graduates who seem to fill every conceivable niche (56% is the last figure I saw quoted for print media journalists); a return to pre 1979 union legislation; and naturally the end of capitalism..

Other than your natural..”well that doesn’t sound like me” a) anything there any reasonable person would disagree with? b) if not…how come Liberal Conspiracy isn’t pushing for that lot?…being such committed ‘lefties’

BenM

“Those nasty libruls had nothing to do with it.”

au contraire Benny boy…well depends on the scope of the phrase “nasty libruls”..tell you what..you tell me who you mean by “nasty libruls” and I’ll tell you why they’re to blame…your definition would of course have to cover someone I’d have a go at in the past.

Sally

“Tory trolls are so like their masters.”..priceless..wouldn’t dream of arguing with you..you’re my favourite.

12. Earnest Ernest

Sunny

btw..CIF might well be more lenient than you; right up until the point that you start to pull them up on their lack of working class contributors, their addiction to nepotism, their total reliance of middle-class Oxbridge journalists to ‘speak for’ the working class and their insistence on retaining Bea Campbell, Nick Cohen and Dennis McShane as writers..then all of a sudden you’re a repetitive ‘vexacious’ poster.

“I didn’t ban you but you did throw your toys out of the pram and leave in a huff. Perhaps you could do that again? It was most amusing.”

Again..why not link and show all the nice people what a ‘huff’ it was…as I recall it was a good-natured and amicable farewell…In fact..here it is..notice my request for examples of my ‘leftie bashing’…I keep asking..you keep declining..

“OK Sunny..I’ll piss off and bother CIF or something for a while..you’ve convinced me this isn’t the place for me. Nice job mate..get yourself a nice big latte..you’ve earned it. Oh but do please show me any examples of where I’m “slagging off lefties”..this is the third time I’ve been accused of this in two days, and each time I ask for examples, I’m blanked. I think you’ve got a bit of an issue going on here. Basically…it seems to be: take issue with the LibCon editorial line (go on..tell me there’s no such thing) and it means you’re a right-wing troll. Can’t you see the absolute conceit in that position?..no..maybe not.”

These posters appear to have hit a nerve.

Earnest – I’m not going to sit here whole day justifying myself to you. If you don’t like the blog you’re welcome to read others. That’s the great thing about the web.

Just the one example would suffice…just one..any time’ll do. Which right wing policy I am advocating?

I consider anyone who spends all their time bashing the left as the opposition, naturally.

In brief: a return to universalist socialist principles….

That’s fine. I don’t follow that agenda entirely. Perhaps that makes me a sellout in your eyes. But let me explain – this is a broad centre-left blog. Says that on the top right. Within that remit, we publish a range of content, mostly from the centre left but also the socialist left. Now – the content may not be what you want. That’s fine, I’m not asking everyone to agree with everything that is published.

What I fucking hate is people coming here telling us what we should be writing, and then (people like you) who think we’re sellouts to the left because we’re not hard-left enough. I never pretended to be. I’m not a socialist. See? Never said I was. If you don’t like it, try socialistunity.com – but there’s nothing worse than another pseudo SWPer who goes around calling other people sellouts (which is what you were imply). In all the threads you’ve participated you’ve not actually discussed the actual issue. You just come here to take the piss. I’m not interested in hosting that.

Once again my post has been taken down. This is a joke.

How come?

You are doing the trolls work for them Sunny.

16. J Alfred Prufrock

@13

These posters appear to have hit a nerve.

Yeahuh, because they’re anti-working class and xenophobic. Not to mention playing on unsubstantiated prejudice, as pointed out in the main article.

The BBC one is quite amusing, granted.

17. Earnest Ernest

#I consider anyone who spends all their time bashing the left as the opposition, naturally.#

No I agree, but then again, as I thought I’d made clear, I don’t consider you to be ‘the left’

#What I fucking hate is people coming here telling us what we should be writing#

Well then, why host comments?

#You just come here to take the piss. I’m not interested in hosting that.#

OK, I’ll concede there’s a sardonic edge to some of them, but that’s a pretty massive misrepresentation…and as for..

#If you don’t like it, try socialistunity.com#

guess why I don’t do that…any more

#but there’s nothing worse than another pseudo SWPer who goes around calling other people sellouts#

I doubt I’m any more pro SWP than you Sunny..they’ve gotten the relativist bug too. And I’d only consider you a sellout if you had ever started from a left-wing position..I consider you a liberal..why you insist on this idea of identifying yourself with the left mystifies me..liberal sure..progressive no problem (whatever that means these days..but ‘left’ is stretching things too far.

.I consider you a liberal..why you insist on this idea of identifying yourself with the left mystifies me..liberal sure..progressive no problem

That’s fine. And I get others coming here asking me why I call myself a liberal when I’m clearly on the far-left. Why don’t you people start a blog called ‘where the fuck is sunny on the political spectrum so we can then trash him for not living up to what we think that means’ – and leave me out of it. The comments are there to have an constructive debate about what is being posted. It’s not for trolls from the People’s Front of Judea. End of discussion. I don’t want to derail the thread. Please kindly bugger off somewhere else.

“When Labour came to power, more than 700,000 workers paid 70% or more marginal tax rates, meaning there was little incentive to work. Indeed, some workers actually had marginal tax rates of more than 100%.

After the 2008 budget, 200,000 workers pay 70% or more marginal tax rates.”

Two things.

1) It’s not marginal atax rates. It’s marginal tax *and benefit withdrawal* rates.

2) Have a look at the 2008 budget. Page 42 here:
http://www.hm-treasury.gov.uk/d/bud08_completereport.pdf

While the number facing over 70% rates (please note, over, not at) is as you say, the number facing over 60% has more than doubled from 760,000 to 1,875,000.

And yes, those of us who complain about the disincentives to work for the rich from 60% or higher tax rates also make the connection with disincentives to work for the poor facing 60% or higher tax rates.

page 42 doesn’t mention marginal tax and benefit withdrawal rates?

“page 42 doesn’t mention marginal tax and benefit withdrawal rates?”

Apologies if I’ve just picked up the wrong page number. But it is there, in the chapter about “making work pay” or some such.

22. Golden Gordon

“Sunny is actually an anti-white racist politcal thug who thinks he has the right to impose media censorship on parties he doesnt like.

What a cunt.”
Sunny you have got to stop Nick Cohen posting on this site. The language.

When Labour came to power, more than 700,000 workers paid 70% or more marginal tax rates, meaning there was little incentive to work. Indeed, some workers actually had marginal tax rates of more than 100%. After the 2008 budget, 200,000 workers pay 70% or more marginal tax rates.

Actually, both the 700,000 and the 200,000 figures seriously underestimate the problem, because neither include the people who aren’t working but who would be if doing so was more rewarding.

And even now, some marginal tax rates are over 100%. This is after 13 years of Labour and 18 years of the Tories beofre that. It’s clear that neither Labservative party wants to fix this problem, because both have had ample time to do so if they had wanted to.

@19 Tim Worstall: And yes, those of us who complain about the disincentives to work for the rich from 60% or higher tax rates also make the connection with disincentives to work for the poor facing 60% or higher tax rates.

Indeed. No-one should have to pay a marginal rate of >50%. And anyone who complains about the marginal rates the rich pay but not the even higher marginal rates the poor pay is either an idiot or a scumbag.

“And anyone who complains about the marginal rates the rich pay but not the even higher marginal rates the poor pay is either an idiot or a scumbag.”

I would like to say that that proves that I’m neither an idiot nor a scumbag…..but unfortunately it only proves that I’m not sor this particular reason. I’m sure there are many others for which I might be.

Oooops.

For, not sor.

And missed the 🙂


Reactions: Twitter, blogs
  1. sunny hundal

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  2. Ron Gordon

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  3. Lee Griffin

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  9. Liberal Conspiracy

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  13. Ben Cooper

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  14. Maggie Thatcher

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  15. Terence Stokes

    RT @BevaniteEllie: P*ss poor posters pwned RT @libcon: Tory class warriors: shameless and clueless http://bit.ly/bvWtBa

  16. uberVU - social comments

    Social comments and analytics for this post…

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  17. Soho Politico

    .@TimMontgomerie still won't say whether he designed the Shameless @mylabourposter. Did he write the accompanying text? http://bit.ly/aAGHBm

  18. Nick Hider

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