Agree. Spot on. It’s how it is said and the context in which it is delivered. There is that fine line between been a bully…

Well Blimming said. Perfect. They do this with EVERYTHING. They want a free market but only on THEIR terms. They want stronger sentences but only on THEIR terms. They want benefit fraudsters to be strung up biut do NOTHING when it’s them and their mates that dodge tax on their cash!

As a woman, I don’t think rape jokes are funny particularly in that context. I’ve never found it funny when at school my school mates used to joke about rape in front of me (I’m a woman) or when they used to say slavery jokes in front of me (I’m black).

To some of the posters who are shocked by people thinking like this about blacks, slavery or rape, where the HELL do you live??

I like in the UK and I see it all the time. In pubs. By the bus station. At work. Walking down the street…Tory blogs…

I know and use the quote (or at least derivations of it). But finally to find out who said it.
Thanks for that.

What winds me up about Frankie Boyle is that he, like most comics (Ross is another classic example) picks cheap targets. I’ve seen him work a whole routine which was sharp, funny, edgy at times but never tilted into the “dark-heart-of-mock-the-week” persona that particular show pays him for, so he can be clever. He just usually isn’t.

Connelly typically does not pick cheap targets. Bill Hicks never did. Some targets are worth offending [1] and as someone said earlier, delivering such offense with style and panache is funny. Some are cheap; it’s quite easy to offend a rape victim, and difficult to see why it would be a worthwhile social goal to do so. A rape joke told so as to offend rapists might, in theory, be useful.

Comedy at the cutting edge is only worth having if it says something useful. Some categories of joke rarely if ever do.

All this without dwelling on the issue of who tells a joke being a prime piece of context. Stephen K. Amos telling jokes which turn on Afro-Caribbean social politics and the associated accent can be very funny indeed. If I saw Jeremy Clarkson produce the same material, the effect would be radically different.

[1] Idi Amin comes in for a surprising amount of ridicule, even now, in West African comedy. Frequently in jokes which are aimed at Robert Mugabe.

Ah, now there I actually agree (sorry, my agreement with people around here is a death blow to their social standing, I know, I know…..)

A huge (large, majority of, to taste) amount of what is called “PC” is simply good manners. Most of the time one does not wish to offend and what offends is defined not by what one means but by what others find offensive. And that’s for them to decide, not one. (Erm, having started with “one” I’ll continue).

Sometimes one does wish to offend and it is the desire to offend which is to be condemned, not the manner in which it is done.

My problem with “PC” is that it goes, sometimes, further than this. To the point that there is a received view and trying to analyse, possibly disagree, with this view is condemned. Around here we might have the examples of not all foreigners selling sex are trafficked, not all selling sex are in fact oppressed or forced into doing so (to give examples of LC threads recently).

Mind you, I think Charlieman meant 104 – unless the mods have been at it again?

Sometime offense is the entire point of the joke – listen to this incredible line up deliver the ‘Aristocrats’ routine.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TiyoTpRGNfk

I’ve listened to it twice now and can find little in the way of respect or good manners, maybe all these top notch comedians (male, female, black, white) are all suspect as well?

But they have not got the integrity or honesty to do so.

Instead, they hide behind terms like standards and decency.”

I am not a Conservative/troll/numpty. Thus I never use the expression “politically correct” except as a quotation; the words derived from “respect” suffice, and I suspect that historians in 2,000 years time will understand those terms much more easily than “PC”.

Several moons ago, Danny Finkelstein addressed some of this in light hearted fashion at The Times:
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/daniel_finkelstein/article535789.ece

In the paragraphs surrounding the following quote, he illustrates some foolishness of others and reminds us that much “political correctness” is just good manners. And here’s why “PC” should be obliterated from common parlance; the expression has been so abused that it carries no meaning:
“My problem with “it’s political correctness gone mad” is that on more than half the occasions on which it is deployed it isn’t appropriate. It is attacking something that isn’t politically correct and hasn’t gone mad.”

Getting back to rape jokes. They might be acceptable to an audience that expects a “challenging” performance. The jokes may challenge values sufficiently to make me think, but there are other ways to engage me.

If the content of a joke is offensive, think hard before you repeat it. Respect, good manners and all that.

Right wing political correctness is just as prevalent as left wing political correctness. But they hide behind other terms.

But they have not got the integrity or honesty to do so.

Instead, they hide behind terms like standards and decency. Bullshit. it’s political correctness plain and simple, but it is right wing political correctness. Which never gets mentioned in a Daily Wail editorial ………… funny that.

Thanks for your support, means a lot to me in the face of nasty smears by cowards. Thanks also to Douglas Clark for his support.

“Tony Drummond”

Did a quick check on you using Google advance search to see if you’ve ever commented at Lib Con before, or have access to this thread before, as the nasty comments have been deleted so how would you have known about them? You have not, so I take it you are the same person who smeared me with those lies and/or connected to that person. I do not have to defend myself against anonymous cowards making false accusations about me and if you are NOT connected to those people then seriously, you siding with a sick individual calling me a rapist with no evidence at all. That makes you a idiot and as bad as the person in question.

Two thoughts;
*I wonder if Blake was egged on by the Sunderland coppers? – I doubt if the joke came out of the blue, or existed in a vacuum (although I might be wrong, of course).

*if the Tories are willing expel a local councillor for lack of judgement (on a sexual matter) why are they still willing to forge exciting European alliances with a right wing Polish group who allegedly have reprehensible views about homosexuality?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2009/oct/07/cameron-defends-alliance-polish-party

This demonstrates the limits of Lib Con. I’m a Labour supported, I agree with about 40pc of the stuff on this site – but there is an enormous amount of hard left Dave Spart and Millie Tant nonesense on here as well.

Seriously suggesting that this has anything (*anything*) to do with rape is just absurd and highlights what a confused world these people live in.

Jesus Wept. See? You’ve turned me in to Littlejohn.

The freedom to accuse someone of rape, wherever the context, is not a particularly pleasant freedom, but it is one all the same.

“We have a tight comments policy aimed at fostering constructive debate.
We believe in free speech but not your right to abuse our space.
Abusive, sarcastic or silly comments may be deleted.
Misogynist, racist, homophobic and xenophobic comments will be deleted.”

These sicko’s, I presume, also have the ability to read. If they really think a crime has been committed they should go to the police, if not, they should shut the fuck up and leave. Sorry if I am not as politely reserved as D H-G.

Huge thanks also to the mods here for deleting this nonsense.

Peace.

Personally, I thought the Gervais/Merchant sketch was hilarious. A victimless crime like replacing someone’s ashes after cremation. At no point in the process of this instance is the individual ever intimidated or physically forced into the act; she is only held there by her own naivety, and she will leave.

Superman enters a bar and orders a stiff drink; he looks pale and shaken.
“What’s up?” says Spiderman (because in this world we cross over between Marvel and DC) Superman explains that he was flying through the city when he saw Wonder Woman lying on the bed, naked, with her legs spread. Now, Superman has already established a relationship with Wonderwoman, and they have made clear through a system of safe words and codes what their acceptable standards of sexual behaviour are. Seeing her there, Superman is convinced that she knows he’s there and swoops in, undressing himself and attempting to join her on the bed.
“Wow!” says Spiderman, “I bet she was surprised.” “Yes, she was,” says Superman, “but not as surprised as the invisible man.”

There’s a long tradition of rape jokes in this country because, well, it used to be so damn common. It also used to carry the lascivious tinge that sometimes it wasn’t so forcible after all, being one of the few ways that – ironically – a woman could be seen as sexually liberal. I think one of the oldest jokes written involves a woman who pressed her suit against a man who had taken advantage of her.

“He tied me to a tree, sir, by the waist, and then he tied my arms. He would have tied my legs, sir, but I was determined he would not, so kept them as far apart as I could.”

You’re a transgender lesbian?

A eunuch?

A robot?

Oh go on, put me out of my misery.

Keep trying.

No worries. All my comments were in reply to DC Calling and would have made no sense whatsoever if his were deleted. On the subject of which Sunny missed post 88.