Mail implies Christians persecuted. Were they?


by Sunny H    
December 8, 2009 at 8:16 pm

The Daily Mail has this story:

A Christian couple have been charged with a criminal offence after taking part in what they regarded as a reasonable discussion about religion with guests at their hotel. Ben and Sharon Vogelenzang were arrested after a Muslim woman complained to police that she had been offended by their comments.

They have been charged under public order laws with using ‘threatening, abusive or insulting words’ that were ‘religiously aggravated’.

Although the facts are disputed, it is thought that during the conversation the couple were challenged over their Christian beliefs.

The facts are “disputed”, but to no surprise the story implies strongly that the Christian couple are being persecuted after being challenged over their beliefs.

Let’s look at another version of events:

A Muslim woman was asked by a Christian hotelier if she was a terrorist and a murderer because she was wearing Islamic dress, a court has been told. Ericka Tazi told Liverpool magistrates she faced a tirade of abuse from Benjamin Vogelenzang and his wife Sharon, at their hotel on Merseyside.

The 60-year-old, who suffers from fibromyalgia and lives with chronic pain, said: “He just couldn’t accept the way I was dressed. “He asked me if I was a murderer, if I was a terrorist. I’m a 60-year-old disabled woman, I couldn’t understand where it was coming from, it was shocking to me.”

Another guest, Shirley Tait, said she was in her bedroom when she heard Mr Vogelenzang shouting the words “Nazi” and “warlord”.

Funny. The Daily Mail reporter only reported one side of the story. Wonder why that is.
[via Martin Robbins]

Update
The Daily Mail’s update to the story is still slanted but offers more facts about the case.
[via mudlarklives]

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· About the author: Sunny Hundal is editor of Liberal Conspiracy. He works full time as a journalist, commentator, blogger, activist and general layabout. He was voted Guardian blogger of the year in 2006. Also at: Pickled Politics, on Twitter and Comment is free.

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· Filed under: news


24 Comments in response   ||  



Reactions: Twitter, blogs
  1. Liberal Conspiracy

    :: Daily Mail implies Christians persecuted in incident http://bit.ly/7URFO2

  2. Gordon Thomson

    @stuartstuart123 In reference to that Washington Post article you posted, here's a much more extreme example: http://bit.ly/6uGwMy

  3. Claire Butler

    Two very different views of the same event – RT @libcon Daily Mail implies Christians persecuted in incident http://bit.ly/80GfUa

  4. Lesley Bruce

    Liberal Conspiracy » Daily Mail implies Christians persecuted in incident http://bit.ly/6uGwMy

  5. Josh R

    Daily Mail: Fair And Balanced, as always. Where have I heard that before? http://bit.ly/7L8w4x

  6. Chris P

    RT @technicalfault Daily Mail: Fair And Balanced, as always. Where have I heard that before? http://bit.ly/7L8w4x

  7. Naadir Jeewa

    Daily Mail implies Christians were persecuted when they asked a Muslim if they were a terrorist, a murderer & nazi: http://bit.ly/5vhJlk

  8. hannahnicklin

    RT @technicalfault: Daily Mail: Fair And Balanced, as always. http://bit.ly/7L8w4x

  9. Daniel Selwood

    RT @libcon: :: Daily Mail implies Christians persecuted in incident http://bit.ly/7URFO2

  10. Stephen Mullen

    RT @technicalfault: Daily Mail: Fair And Balanced, as always. Where have I heard that before? http://bit.ly/7L8w4x

  11. Chris Coltrane

    RT @technicalfault: Daily Mail: Fair And Balanced, as always. http://bit.ly/7L8w4x

  12. Chica Lolita

    Because asking if you're a terrorist is "reasonable discussion about religion" (via@chris_coltrane @technicalfault) http://bit.ly/7L8w4x

  13. Jonathan Foster

    RT @libcon: classic Daily Mail -implies Christians persecuted in recent incident, but were they? http://bit.ly/7URFO2

  14. Paul Evans

    Have a look? Mail implies Christians persecuted. Were they? http://url4.eu/tvYK



Reader comments

Still shouldn’t be a criminal offence. Laws should protect bigots as much as everyone else..

You missed this bit from the BBC’s coverage:

‘And his 54-year-old wife told Mrs Tazi her Islamic dress represented “oppression” and was a form of “bondage”, the court heard.’

Frankly I can’t get worked up over a verbal exchange between two pairs of religious fucknuts.

Let them yell across the breakfast table – what business is this of the State?

Harrassment/alarm/distress is a criminal offence. Whether you think it should be or not, (and it’s probably not the most problematic bit of the 1986 Public Order Act) the behaviour described by the BBC would surely fall into that category. So whatever else the arrest may have been, it certainly wasn’t persecution.

I liked the christians with the free speech banners. Does anyone know where the protest is? I’d like to test the free speech theory by turning up with my ‘Jesus was a homosexual’ banner.

Unfortunately for you, the case was dismissed.

This wasn’t the common or garden “behaviour likely to cause harassement/alarm/distress ” public order offence. Nu labour tacked on an extra bit of statute which means that if the behaviour is motivated by “hatred” based on religion, sexual orientation/pc cause of your choice, it is somehow worse than if it’s based on er abuse motivated by something other than hate. In effect giving certain minorities a privelidged status in law, totally contrary to the blind justice principle
Anyway, glad it got thrown out, it smacked of an opportunistic complaint designed to whip up a religious debate and/or a compensation claim.

#5

I’m glad the case was dismissed, but it’s also clear that the couple behaved in an inappropriate and upsetting manner, and that they were not persecuted. I would like to feel (but am not confident) that they feel chastised rather than vindicated by the process.

It’s probably best that the case was dismissed; I don’t think this kind of thing is really the state’s business. If cases like this succeed then half the stand-up comedians in the country will have to edit their acts or go to jail.

But the nub of it isn’t religious persecution at all is it? The woman wasn’t being insulted by being called a Muslim, but by being called a terrorist. I wonder if she might not have better had a go at an action for slander. She was called (near as dammit) a terrorist in front of witnesses, no?

The really unfortunate thing is that this deeply unpleasant couple of f*ckwits will probably take it as a state issued licence to be even more insulting to people who don’t fit in with their 19th century worldview.

@3: Harrassment/alarm/distress is a criminal offence. Whether you think it should be or not, (and it’s probably not the most problematic bit of the 1986 Public Order Act)

I am regularly alarmed and distressed by various government legislation. Are these ciminals going to be brought to book? I thought not.

I’m not sure what your point is, but if it’s that the 1986 Act is not good legislation, you should take the argument up with Mrs Thatcher.

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