Kojak is a demented birther perchance?

Far be it from me to pull aside the curtain and reveal the Wizard to an unsuspecting Dorothy – I have to reveal that all campaigns (be they mainstream or ‘grass roots’) have a well organized PR working on their behalf.

There’s a difference between “working on their behalf” and “engineering their creation“. There’s also a difference between “well organized PR” and “PR lobby with a long history amongst the US hard-right“. In both cases, as I’ve said, it’s the latter.

As to your choice of the term ‘far right’ to describe the Tea Party movement – don’t you think that in itself is a bit extreme …….. it’s more like a conservative movement, and people in the US more readily describe themselves as conservative than we think.

Obviously, lots of people within the protests aren’t extremists, but those engineering some of the campaigns – such as those that I bring up in my post – are. They have, to restate, a lengthy history of strident pro-war activism, disrupting anti-Bush protests and promoting bigoted propaganda.

Not sure what’s “conservative” about them, either.

Lloyd Marcus is an interesting character and I am not prepared to dismiss him as a black stooge, there to add credibility to the Tea Party Movement. He’s just another conservative one who resents how he sees the Democratic Party’s reliance upon but subordination of American black voters. That he does so in a predominantly white movement is another matter altogether.

I don’t think that he’s a “black stooge“; I do, however, think he’s foolish. I mean, good God man – he has a song called “Our Girls“, a “tribute to Sarah Palin, Ann Coulter, Laura Ingram and Michelle Malkin“. This makes the Right Brothers look like the Rolling Stones!

Not sure what’s conservative about him, either.

Mark Williams looks like an unpleasant character, not one I would like to associate with, but don’t put Rush Limbaugh into the same bracket. Limbaugh (whether you love him or hate him) is direct in his views and clearly avoids bigotry and racism…

I respectfully disagree.

…….. Rush Limbaugh ……. clearly avoids bigotry and racism – though he fights hard to discredit people he opposes. But you could say the same about radio presenters from theopposite political viewpoint; Randi Rhodes from Air America comes to mind.

Thank you for your comments.

Far be it from me to pull aside the curtain and reveal the Wizard to an unsuspecting Dorothy – I have to reveal that all campaigns (be they mainstream or ‘grass roots’) have a well organized PR working on their behalf. So nothingsurprising about the Tea Parties doing the same.

As to your choice of the term ‘far right’ to describe the Tea Party movement – don’t you think that in itself is a bit extreme …….. it’s more like a conservative movement, and people in the US more readily describe themselves as conservative than we think.

I appreciate your distinction between racism and bigotry – it helps move this along and enables me to discuss this without feeling acused of racism for raising the questions I do.

Lloyd Marcus is an interesting character and I am not prepared to dismiss him as a black stooge, there to add credibility to the Tea Party Movement. He’s just another conservative one who resents how he sees the Democratic Party’s reliance upon but subordination of American black voters. That he does so in a predominantly white movement is another matter altogether.

Mark Williams looks like an unpleasant character, not one I would like to associate with, but don’t put Rush Limbaugh into the same bracket. Limbaugh (whether you love him or hate him) is direct in his views and clearly avoids

Thank you for your comments.

Far be it from me to pull aside the curtain and reveal the Wizard to an unsuspecting Dorothy – I have to reveal that all campaigns (be they mainstream or ‘grass roots’) have a well organized PR working on their behalf. So nothingsurprising about the Tea Parties doing the same.

As to your choice of the term ‘far right’ to describe the Tea Party movement – don’t you think that in itself is a bit extreme …….. it’s more like a conservative movement, and people in the US more readily describe themselves as conservative than we think.

I appreciate your distinction between racism and bigotry – it helps move this along and enables me to discuss this without feeling acused of racism for raising the questions I do.

Lloyd Marcus is an interesting character and I am not prepared to dismiss him as a black stooge, there to add credibility to the Tea Party Movement. He’s just another conservative one who resents how he sees the Democratic Party’s reliance upon but subordination of American black voters. That he does so in a predominantly white movement is another matter altogether.

Mark Williams looks like an unpleasant character, not one I would like to associate with, but don’t put Rush Limbaugh into the same bracket. Limbaugh (whether you love him or hate him) is direct in his views and clearly avoids

I find it surprising that this question was not formally addressed by either party during the election and am surprised that any doubts whatsoever have been allowed to linger by the witholding of information which easily be released for authorative inspection.

Why do you think that there were no “doubts” which had to be “formally addressed” with regard to the candidates in previous elections? Did Reagan and Dukakis formally exchange birth certificates, do you think? Nixon and Kennedy?

We are really getting to the heart of it now. Why is it an “issue” with Obama?

I suppose I have to restate my position again regarding Obama’s Birth Certificate and other records which are under lock and key:
I find it surprising that this question was not formally addressed by either party during the election and am surprised that any doubts whatsoever have been allowed to linger by the witholding of information which easily be released for authorative inspection. This shouldn’t be about rival political parties or opponents scoring points but rather about adherence with the wording of the constitution.
So, I don’t think that qualifies me as a ‘birther’. I would suggest that all the information be reviewed by a mutually agreed authority (agreed by Democrats + G.O.P.) including the newspaper article to which you refer.

As far as your assertion that racism underlies much of the birther movement – I refer you to the earlier links to Lloyd Marcus who participated in the tea parties.

http://www.lloydmarcus.com/?page_id=546

http://www.lloydmarcus.com/?page_id=568

What’s your take on this then?

http://www.lloydmarcus.com/?p=755
http://www.lloydmarcus.com/?p=787
http://www.lloydmarcus.com/?p=799

With this one thown in for good measure

http://www.lloydmarcus.com/?p=811

Not really sure why you are bringing that up in response to me, old bean. It does not bear on anything I have said in this thread. I said that underlying the birther movement was racism. Nothing about the election from me, buddy.

So what about it? Do you dispute my assertion that racism underlies much of the birther movement or not?

We were told by supposedly authorative sources that the US was too racially divided to ever elect a black president – but, hey presto! they did it. Good for them, the racial stereotype of an unelectable black candidate is in the bin. But despite this no matter how I demonstrate this is not an issue of Obama’s race you manage to bring it back to that. Get over it – the American people did.

I think the witholding of information by Obama is a bit silly because as President he is Head of State the President of all Americans, whether they voted for him or not, and fulfills a unifying role. So quash any rumours asap and don’t let them spread by appearing as if there might be something to hide.

As far as the election of Obama is concerned my only problem was that the Democratic Party chose a man whose most successful slogan was a Bob The Builder catchprase, supported by a man whose plagarism of Neil Kinnock had forced him to withdraw 17 years earlier. I didn’t quite get how ‘Yes we can’ was supposed to be his ‘soaring rhetoric’ which I heard so much about in the news.

Oh, I think the papers might be interested in that – after all, “Chancellor not qualified for job” is quite a story.

OTOH, “Several thousand comedy wingnuts read ridiculous bullshit on the internet, spend months jumping up and down angrily demanding to see Chancellor’s GCSE results” is not a story, especially since furious, wackaday hilarity is what comedy wingnuts do all the time.

Dog bites man, see? I suppose they might be able to fit you into the column with the dog that can say “sausages” and the man who claims aliens interfered with his anus, if you’re interested.

Like I say though, if I were Obama, I’d just keep you lot ticking over and I’d never, ever release that certificate. Teabaggers are a godsend for the Democrats and electoral death for the Republicans, because they are such abject dumbasses that nobody would want to associate themselves with them.

Stage 1: We couldn’t have lost! The other guys must have cheated!
Stage 2: I can’t believe we lost! The electorate can’t have understood our message properly, we need to be purer.
Stage 3: Maybe there’s something wrong with the way we’re getting our message out.
Stage 4: Maybe there’s something wrong with our message.

The Tories finally got to stage 4 in 2005. The Republicans are still at stage 1 or 2. I wonder how long it will take Labour…

However, even you should be able to comprehend that the two cases are totally different. After all, there is no question there of where McCain was born. Everyone knows where he was born: and not because we’ve all rolled down to the relevant office and checked the original copy of his birth certificate, eh? And there is certainly no intimation that McCain is participating in any conspiracy or an ongoing lie. That story is an interesting little piece about a technicality relating to the precise wording of the US Constitution. I sure don’t see any birther movement droning on and on and on and on and on and on about McCain. I very much doubt that only 25% of Democrats believe McCain was legally entitled to become President.

Nope, my comment stands up just fine so there is no need to withdraw anything.

I don’t know anything about your personal opinions on matters of race apart from what one may glean from your comments on this site and unless I saw something pretty blatant I would neither conclude nor “imply” that you were racist, so you can calm down about that. That said, this is a fact: underlying the birther movement, the reason the entire birther movement has grown and gained traction is the fact that Obama just ain’t a white man. And if you can’t see that… well I won’t call you a racist but I might just call you stoopid. How’s that?