‘In 1997 the average prison population was 61,470 (page 4). The population last Friday was 84,593 (DOC), a rise in just 12 years of more than 20,300. ‘

Wow, that’s really something to be proud of.

I presume they’re counting on Gregory Davis, as a prisoner, not having the wherewithal to challenge their libellous labelling of him as a murderer.

‘Labour’s real success is that despite increasing the population so massively, there are still not enough places to go round’

Ditto.

This coincided with ill-judged policies on late drinking, softening drug laws and over-reliance on cautions, all of which increased crime.

The biggest Sun Lie of all.

These measures didn’t increase crime. The British Crime Survey has overall numbers of crime down over 30pc on 1997.

We can argue till we’re blue in the face whether or not government policy has much to do with this (I think it’s marginal). But tabloids shouldn’t be allowed to get away with peddling bullshit statistics.

@BenM

“[...] tabloids shouldn’t be allowed to get away with peddling bullshit statistics.”

Unfortunately there doesn’t seem to be a way to stop them. Telling lies in order to further your political aims isn’t exactly something any government is likely to vote to make punishable under the law.

Our collective obsession – highlighted by The Sun’s ability to publish such articles – with punishment and a desire to harm, with impunity and legitimacy, those deemed to be “criminal” and thus have attained outsider status, is frankly terrifying.

I’m not so much bothered by The Sun’s lies (I expect The Sun to lie), as by the fact the underlying attitude that criminals must be punished and harmed, regardless of whether this increases re-offending or further endangers the public is one which will resonate widely with millions of people.

What a strange society we live in.

Shatterface, you seem to have missed the point of the post with both of your comments.

‘These measures didn’t increase crime. The British Crime Survey has overall numbers of crime down over 30pc on 1997.’

And yet prison population is up 20,000 – but such is LibCon’s knee-jerk response to The Sun they’d rather defend Labour’s draconian reaction to crime and ‘anti-social behaviour’ than argue we should be shutting prisons down not opening them.

‘Shatterface, you seem to have missed the point of the post with both of your comments.’

The point of the article seems to be ‘lets contradict The Sun even if it means we support a police state’.

Or am I missing something?

Or am I missing something?

I don’t think that was what was meant, no. Bullshit should be challenged, whether you agree with a premise or not.

Yes, just to echo what Arron said you do seem to have missed the point of the piece and projected your own personal feelings on to it somewhat.

Paul Sagar @ 6: Right on. Until we figure out what that’s all about and what to do about it, we’ve got real problems. Have you read any of Alice Miller’s work on the subject? Seems a bit simplistic and Freudian, but I can’t help thinking that she might be onto something… Although Erich Fromm was also onto something when he said, “There is perhaps no phenomenon which contains so much destructive feeling as ‘moral indignation,’ which permits envy or hate to be acted out under the guise of virtue.”

Rik Hemsley,

“I presume they’re counting on Gregory Davis, as a prisoner, not having the wherewithal to challenge their libellous labelling of him as a murderer.”

What an absolute disgrace !

http://www.thisisoxfordshire.co.uk/news/4742704.Double_killer_s_strolls_in_the_city/?ref=rss

No not the above, but that the poor double killer and disembowler should be unjustly labeled a murderer rather than with the common and more politically acceptable term of “manslaughterer” .

Thanks for reminding me why the “liberal left” make me sick.

Err, yes, Shatterface you have rather missed the point. I’m challenging the Sun’s accuracy, not defending Labour’s record by any means whatsoever. I apologise if that doesn’t come across properly; this was mainly intended to be a post on the Sun Lies site, and I only cross-posted it at mine, Sunny obviously felt it deserved a place here as well. The comment about “Labour’s real success” was especially meant to be sarcastic.

Thanks for reminding me why the “liberal left” make me sick.

Because we a) care about factual accuracy b) think that when mentally ill people do terrible things due to their illness, hanging, drawing and quartering them before using their entrails as party garlands might not always be the most appropriate solution?

Thanks for reminding me why I hope never, ever to be able to describe myself as ‘ex-leftie’…

No, john b, ex-leftie may have a point. After all, who doesn’t love a free upgrade?

Also agree with Paul Sagar and Dunc about the way The Sun stirs up hatred of the criminal. Although, I did find this surprisingly sympathetic article about one vulnerable group whose high offending rates are, quite correctly, linked to stress and depression. Even soft probation officers are, for once, quoted with approval.

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/2654565/Stricken-former-soldiers-turn-to-crime.html

Mind you, The Sun is talking about Our Brave Lads here, so it’s OK to use social and psychological factors to explain their behaviour, even if that suddenly becomes dangerous trendy liberal nonsense when applied to the rest of us.

Ex Leftie reminds me why I’m glad I’m not a foaming reactionary rightwing nerd.

John b
“Because we a) care about factual accuracy ”
Seems to me certain contributors to this blog care mostly about parading their own smug sense of moral superiority to the rest of the world. I mean, some people blog at various newspaper websites condemning horrific killers and others get on their high horse on this one- spitting blood only over the terminology used to describe the perpetrators. Different strokes for different folks, i suppose.

“b) think that when mentally ill people do terrible things due to their illness, hanging, drawing and quartering them before using their entrails as party garlands might not always be the most appropriate solution?”
Bit of a straw man being set up there. The comment is also rather sick considering what Greg Davis actually did.
Lets hope none of you are about next time he forgets to take his medication.

BenM
“Ex Leftie reminds me why I’m glad I’m not a foaming reactionary rightwing nerd.”

I ve used that moniker because i m happy to be ex-communicated by all self- anointed Popes of “the left”.

Although, I could conceivable be labeled “right-wing” on a couple of issues, i would say that i m generally to the left of New Labour.
I just don t feel the need to self- identify with anyone or group describing itself as “Left” or “Liberal Left” any more.

One thing that annoys me is that people that so identify have always excelled in ad-hominem attacks and the fake clairvoyance of ascribing to people (they do not like) views they do not really hold, often in the form of a “when so-and-so says this- they really mean this” type of argumentation.

But then the left/liberal-left for some time have shown every sign of being at least as blinkered, bigoted and knee jerk as parts of the right.

P.S.Here s a couple of things you might not want to read.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Fallout-Guilty-Liberal-Lost-Innocence/dp/0099507854/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1258647259&sr=1-1

http://hitchensblog.mailonsunday.co.uk/

Not much at all coming from you.
Feel free to enlighten me with your pearls of wisdom…

Take a look in the mirror.

“Although, I could conceivable be labeled “right-wing” on a couple of issues, i would say that i m generally to the left of New Labour.”

Straight from the BNP’s “how to describe yourself online” section of the manual.

You’re absolutely right: A. Anthony and P. Hitchens are indeed things I don’t want to read. Not because I’m blind to the foul realities of the world or anything, just because they’re grossly misleading polemicists (and bad writers, in AA’s case).

I deal with ex-offenders and the Government’s reasoning seams to be ‘Let’s take someone who has committed a petty offence and fuck their lives up entirely. Let’s take them out of society for months or years, institutionalise them and then label them so they’ll never again find employment’, so apologies if you think I’m being confrontational here.

Whether The Sun thinks this is being ’soft’ is immaterial. I don’t read The Sun. Nobody I know reads The Sun. I live and work in Liverpool and nobody here would wipe their arse on it. On the other hand the Government does reach us and it is for them I reserve my contempt.

DHG
My last comment should have read,” Look in the mirror, I m but a projection of yourself”. But already now you really seem to be having some sort of weird identity crisis here.

Planeshift
“Straight from the BNP’s “how to describe yourself online” section of the manual.”

Would i find it necessary to even attempt to describe myself here but for the standard “liberal lefties” habit of playing the man rather than the ball ?

Reading from the comments policy of this site.

“Please don’t be under the misapprehension that this blog has a laissez-faire comments policy where commenters can get away with whatever they want to say on account of their ‘freedom of speech’. That is most definitely not the case.

Liberal Conspiracy aims to foster a culture of constructive comments and useful dialogue between contributors and readers. We see that as vitally important in our efforts to reinvigorate the liberal-left with fresh ideas, challenge orthodoxies and forge a way forward.

We have a stringent comments policy. We welcome constructive scrutiny of our views but will deal harshly with off-topic, diversionary or trollish comments.

We believe in freedom of speech, but unwanted commenters are more than welcome to exercise their free speech elsewhere on the blogosphere. We don’t wish to censor them there.

But we reserve the right to delete comments deemed abusive or troll-like in our space. We are not obliged to provide space to right-wing or left-wing loonies to abuse others or throw vitriol at writers.

Abusive, sarcastic and troll-ish comments (aimed at writers or other commenters) will be deleted.

Misogynist, racist, homophobic and xenophobic comments will be deleted.

You are welcome to write a complaint to the editors if you feel you are constantly treated unfairly. We may get back to you but we are under no obligation to.

Allow us to stress once again: this is our collective blog and we have the right to set a stringent comments policy. If you do not like it you are under no obligation to participate.
We value quality over quantity.”

I had to laugh at this, especially the last sentence.”..quality over quantity” .
I see little evidence of either here.

Shatterface: I quite agree. Some do however read the Sun, and if just one person sees this and realises the Sun is talking utter nonsense, my work is done.

Ex-Leftie:

It’s not an identity crisis, it is an idiot impersonating me as it is very easy to do on this site.