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	<title>Comments on: David Nutt controversy: a warning to all you reefer kids out there</title>
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		<title>By: Tweets that mention Liberal Conspiracy » David Nutt controversy: a warning to all you reefer kids out there -- Topsy.com</title>
		<link>http://liberalconspiracy.org/2009/11/02/david-nutt-controversy-a-warning-to-all-you-kids-out-there/#comment-79226</link>
		<dc:creator>Tweets that mention Liberal Conspiracy » David Nutt controversy: a warning to all you reefer kids out there -- Topsy.com</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Nov 2009 16:22:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.liberalconspiracy.org/?p=8785#comment-79226</guid>
		<description>[...] This post was mentioned on Twitter by Nicholas Stewart, Cosmos. Cosmos said: #uk David Nutt controversy: a warning to all you reefer kids out there: There are millions of adults – with .. http://bit.ly/iPovn [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] This post was mentioned on Twitter by Nicholas Stewart, Cosmos. Cosmos said: #uk David Nutt controversy: a warning to all you reefer kids out there: There are millions of adults – with .. <a href="http://bit.ly/iPovn" rel="nofollow">http://bit.ly/iPovn</a> [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Dick the Prick</title>
		<link>http://liberalconspiracy.org/2009/11/02/david-nutt-controversy-a-warning-to-all-you-kids-out-there/#comment-78598</link>
		<dc:creator>Dick the Prick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Nov 2009 09:10:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.liberalconspiracy.org/?p=8785#comment-78598</guid>
		<description>@48 - probably. I also accidently got a rather nice compo package (seriously, I thought that if you quit a job you got nowt but in the nether world of more money than sense and/or constructive dismissal) so that was nice. I would strenuously argue that the National Treatment Agency is not a suitable vehicle for substance misuse amelioration but strangely no-one&#039;s talking about that. Pot reclassification - how unbelievably irrelevant (unless of course a twatty copper with a chip on their shoulder decides to arrest you for having an ounce on you or something and then it&#039;s almost career over in some walks of life - outrageous!).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@48 &#8211; probably. I also accidently got a rather nice compo package (seriously, I thought that if you quit a job you got nowt but in the nether world of more money than sense and/or constructive dismissal) so that was nice. I would strenuously argue that the National Treatment Agency is not a suitable vehicle for substance misuse amelioration but strangely no-one&#8217;s talking about that. Pot reclassification &#8211; how unbelievably irrelevant (unless of course a twatty copper with a chip on their shoulder decides to arrest you for having an ounce on you or something and then it&#8217;s almost career over in some walks of life &#8211; outrageous!).</p>
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		<title>By: the a&#38;e charge nurse</title>
		<link>http://liberalconspiracy.org/2009/11/02/david-nutt-controversy-a-warning-to-all-you-kids-out-there/#comment-78574</link>
		<dc:creator>the a&#38;e charge nurse</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Nov 2009 08:36:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.liberalconspiracy.org/?p=8785#comment-78574</guid>
		<description>Some commentators have ascribed the kind of power to the right wing press that top churnalists like Mel Phillips could only ever dream about.

According to this analysis Johno, Straw, Clarke, et al, are shit scared of the likes of Mel, and always have been, whenever the issue of more humane drug legislation arises?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2009/nov/03/nutt-johnson-drugs-rightwing-press</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Some commentators have ascribed the kind of power to the right wing press that top churnalists like Mel Phillips could only ever dream about.</p>
<p>According to this analysis Johno, Straw, Clarke, et al, are shit scared of the likes of Mel, and always have been, whenever the issue of more humane drug legislation arises?<br />
<a href="http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2009/nov/03/nutt-johnson-drugs-rightwing-press" rel="nofollow">http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2009/nov/03/nutt-johnson-drugs-rightwing-press</a></p>
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		<title>By: Danar</title>
		<link>http://liberalconspiracy.org/2009/11/02/david-nutt-controversy-a-warning-to-all-you-kids-out-there/#comment-77071</link>
		<dc:creator>Danar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Nov 2009 17:54:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.liberalconspiracy.org/?p=8785#comment-77071</guid>
		<description>@45: The word &quot;accidentally&quot; doesn&#039;t mean what you appear to think it does!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@45: The word &#8220;accidentally&#8221; doesn&#8217;t mean what you appear to think it does!</p>
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		<title>By: Dunc</title>
		<link>http://liberalconspiracy.org/2009/11/02/david-nutt-controversy-a-warning-to-all-you-kids-out-there/#comment-76109</link>
		<dc:creator>Dunc</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Nov 2009 13:05:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.liberalconspiracy.org/?p=8785#comment-76109</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;what? you think that a bottle of red impairs your functioning more than “a night spent assembling Rizlas”? You really think you could get stoned nightly and function daily? Not if your job requires you to put one neuron in front of the other without tripping over.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

From extensive personal experience, yes, &lt;i&gt;I&lt;/i&gt; do think that. Of course, it rather depends on how many rizlas I assemble, and how much of exactly what I put in them... I &lt;i&gt;certainly&lt;/i&gt; couldn&#039;t function properly if I were necking a bottle of red every night, but I seem to manage just fine with a few mild spliffs every night.

Dosage matters, and your mileage may vary.

&lt;blockquote&gt;I know booze does more harm, fags kill more people, but even in moderate doses weed scrambles your brains and incapacitates more than either, I think that needs remembering in all this “cigarettes are worse than weed” talk&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Well, granted, tobacco isn&#039;t strongly psychoactive, but I know for a fact that booze inhibits both &lt;i&gt;my&lt;/i&gt; hand-eye co-ordination and impulse control &lt;i&gt;far&lt;/i&gt; more severely than weed does. People vary quite dramatically in their response to different drugs - some people get pissed on a half of shandy, others can down two bottles of Rioja with no obvious effects. It&#039;s rarely a good idea to generalise from personal experience in such matters.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>what? you think that a bottle of red impairs your functioning more than “a night spent assembling Rizlas”? You really think you could get stoned nightly and function daily? Not if your job requires you to put one neuron in front of the other without tripping over.</p></blockquote>
<p>From extensive personal experience, yes, <i>I</i> do think that. Of course, it rather depends on how many rizlas I assemble, and how much of exactly what I put in them&#8230; I <i>certainly</i> couldn&#8217;t function properly if I were necking a bottle of red every night, but I seem to manage just fine with a few mild spliffs every night.</p>
<p>Dosage matters, and your mileage may vary.</p>
<blockquote><p>I know booze does more harm, fags kill more people, but even in moderate doses weed scrambles your brains and incapacitates more than either, I think that needs remembering in all this “cigarettes are worse than weed” talk</p></blockquote>
<p>Well, granted, tobacco isn&#8217;t strongly psychoactive, but I know for a fact that booze inhibits both <i>my</i> hand-eye co-ordination and impulse control <i>far</i> more severely than weed does. People vary quite dramatically in their response to different drugs &#8211; some people get pissed on a half of shandy, others can down two bottles of Rioja with no obvious effects. It&#8217;s rarely a good idea to generalise from personal experience in such matters.</p>
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		<title>By: Bob B</title>
		<link>http://liberalconspiracy.org/2009/11/02/david-nutt-controversy-a-warning-to-all-you-kids-out-there/#comment-75829</link>
		<dc:creator>Bob B</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Nov 2009 11:36:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.liberalconspiracy.org/?p=8785#comment-75829</guid>
		<description>What with the Home Office being previously declared &quot;unfit for purpose&quot; and now the current mess, the prescription above by James D @33 makes a lot of sense:

&quot;Ultimately, the least that needs doing to sort out the Home Office (if its abolition is never finished) is a near clean sweep of senior civil servants: they’re an exceptionally politicized bunch. There will never be any sensible policy whilst these people are briefing against the truth from inside.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What with the Home Office being previously declared &#8220;unfit for purpose&#8221; and now the current mess, the prescription above by James D @33 makes a lot of sense:</p>
<p>&#8220;Ultimately, the least that needs doing to sort out the Home Office (if its abolition is never finished) is a near clean sweep of senior civil servants: they’re an exceptionally politicized bunch. There will never be any sensible policy whilst these people are briefing against the truth from inside.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Dick the Prick</title>
		<link>http://liberalconspiracy.org/2009/11/02/david-nutt-controversy-a-warning-to-all-you-kids-out-there/#comment-75811</link>
		<dc:creator>Dick the Prick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Nov 2009 11:28:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.liberalconspiracy.org/?p=8785#comment-75811</guid>
		<description>@31 - well you know, you get a bit bored in your job, throw a few applications out there, have a few interviews (some of them pure comedy - the best one was where I accidently answered a set question with &#039;err..you what?&#039;) and then accidently get a job that looks alright on paper. Then after about a month when people have got used to you and you&#039;ve got used to them you kinda realize it&#039;s a complete waste of time, effort, imagination, hope and so to get out of the office it makes sense to wander around the treatment agencies in the region. During that time you meet a lot of practioners, junkies, families, staff and over the course of 6 months produce a load of maps, charts, stats, inferences, opinions and conclude that drug treatment can&#039;t really be centrally driven by the NHS and really should link in with other agencies. At which point the regional manager of the NTA steps in and says - cheers lad but we can&#039;t be publishing this as it may affect our budgets for the future (+£300 million form 2006 - 2007 - I shit you not) so they politely file this (modesty forbids) well researched report in the bin.

 At which point I accidently tell them to shove their job up their arse and get the fuck out of dodge. Something like that anyway.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@31 &#8211; well you know, you get a bit bored in your job, throw a few applications out there, have a few interviews (some of them pure comedy &#8211; the best one was where I accidently answered a set question with &#8216;err..you what?&#8217;) and then accidently get a job that looks alright on paper. Then after about a month when people have got used to you and you&#8217;ve got used to them you kinda realize it&#8217;s a complete waste of time, effort, imagination, hope and so to get out of the office it makes sense to wander around the treatment agencies in the region. During that time you meet a lot of practioners, junkies, families, staff and over the course of 6 months produce a load of maps, charts, stats, inferences, opinions and conclude that drug treatment can&#8217;t really be centrally driven by the NHS and really should link in with other agencies. At which point the regional manager of the NTA steps in and says &#8211; cheers lad but we can&#8217;t be publishing this as it may affect our budgets for the future (+£300 million form 2006 &#8211; 2007 &#8211; I shit you not) so they politely file this (modesty forbids) well researched report in the bin.</p>
<p> At which point I accidently tell them to shove their job up their arse and get the fuck out of dodge. Something like that anyway.</p>
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		<title>By: ukliberty</title>
		<link>http://liberalconspiracy.org/2009/11/02/david-nutt-controversy-a-warning-to-all-you-kids-out-there/#comment-75702</link>
		<dc:creator>ukliberty</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Nov 2009 10:52:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.liberalconspiracy.org/?p=8785#comment-75702</guid>
		<description>Chris @39,

Firstly, on what grounds does &#039;society&#039; (or whoever) assert the right to determine what I may not put in my body?

Secondly, in what way is the comparison of the risks of horse-riding to the risks of the consumption of Ecstasy a category error?  Nutt could indeed have compared (not &quot;linked&quot;) it to the risks of participating in &quot;banana production in the Dominican Republic, to driving motor cars, or to deaths by dog poo discarded in parks in the UK&quot;, or any other activity.  As I understand it his point was about public understanding of risk, and what activities are acceptable despite their risks, to get us to think about why some activities are acceptable and some or not, so we make the right decision on the right grounds.

(Now, there is some disagreement about whether he has his facts right about the risks of Ecstasy, but it doesn&#039;t obviate the broader point.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Chris @39,</p>
<p>Firstly, on what grounds does &#8216;society&#8217; (or whoever) assert the right to determine what I may not put in my body?</p>
<p>Secondly, in what way is the comparison of the risks of horse-riding to the risks of the consumption of Ecstasy a category error?  Nutt could indeed have compared (not &#8220;linked&#8221;) it to the risks of participating in &#8220;banana production in the Dominican Republic, to driving motor cars, or to deaths by dog poo discarded in parks in the UK&#8221;, or any other activity.  As I understand it his point was about public understanding of risk, and what activities are acceptable despite their risks, to get us to think about why some activities are acceptable and some or not, so we make the right decision on the right grounds.</p>
<p>(Now, there is some disagreement about whether he has his facts right about the risks of Ecstasy, but it doesn&#8217;t obviate the broader point.)</p>
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		<title>By: john b</title>
		<link>http://liberalconspiracy.org/2009/11/02/david-nutt-controversy-a-warning-to-all-you-kids-out-there/#comment-75633</link>
		<dc:creator>john b</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Nov 2009 10:38:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.liberalconspiracy.org/?p=8785#comment-75633</guid>
		<description>Oooh, Sunny&#039;s removed the &quot;edit your comment&quot; widget. Not sure I approve of that. 

Anyway, was going to add - 150 years ago horses were indispensable to the way we lived our lives, so not comparable to recreational drug use (same now for driving cars) - but now it&#039;s a minority, 100% recreational pursuit, just like drug use.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oooh, Sunny&#8217;s removed the &#8220;edit your comment&#8221; widget. Not sure I approve of that. </p>
<p>Anyway, was going to add &#8211; 150 years ago horses were indispensable to the way we lived our lives, so not comparable to recreational drug use (same now for driving cars) &#8211; but now it&#8217;s a minority, 100% recreational pursuit, just like drug use.</p>
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		<title>By: john b</title>
		<link>http://liberalconspiracy.org/2009/11/02/david-nutt-controversy-a-warning-to-all-you-kids-out-there/#comment-75623</link>
		<dc:creator>john b</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Nov 2009 10:35:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.liberalconspiracy.org/?p=8785#comment-75623</guid>
		<description>@39, taking ecstasy and riding horses are both slightly, but not very, dangerous pursuits that people engage in for fun. They&#039;re completely comparable.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@39, taking ecstasy and riding horses are both slightly, but not very, dangerous pursuits that people engage in for fun. They&#8217;re completely comparable.</p>
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		<title>By: Chris Paul</title>
		<link>http://liberalconspiracy.org/2009/11/02/david-nutt-controversy-a-warning-to-all-you-kids-out-there/#comment-75421</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris Paul</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Nov 2009 09:32:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.liberalconspiracy.org/?p=8785#comment-75421</guid>
		<description>The real politic of this is surely that people are not generally banged up for five years for smoking cannabis, dropping pills or snorting powders. As well as being more likely to die or get ill from alcohol you are probably more likely to be arrested or imprisoned for its direct and indirect harms which are many - often around drunk driving and drunk violence rather than supply of restricted products. 

Though even there you could well get arrested, charged, fined or imprisoned for supplying underage, or without a licence, or outside permitted hours, or in a wreckless way to drunks. 

And to be fair cigarette smugglers and &quot;pushers&quot; can also find themselves on the wrong end of the constabulary and the customologists.

And to continue being fair there is an antisocial element from some parts of drug culture - the physically addictive sector - and crime and there are certainly some links between the suppliers of dope and Es and LSD, new very nasty party drugs, and of whizz, coke, crack and opiates. Between little dealers and big gangsters. And also between casual use of drugs and an often horrendous and murderous supply chain.

Any executive and legislature and policers and judgers don&#039;t just have to weigh up cold hard scientific fact on &quot;harm&quot; - which often isn&#039;t as cold and hard and factual or uncontested as scientists or indeed politicians tend to make out. Scientific facts i.e. data can often begat several competing theories. And the theories are not themselves facts. They gain and lose popularity and they may be made monkeys of by the passage of time, new data or better thinking.

The politicians and the judges etc must also consider social contexts, crime and disorder, parliamentary politics i.e. can they get things through, and also public palatability. And it is arguably their decisions about enforcement and the practical results of those decisions that really matter.

Professor Nuttsacks originally made his remarks about E and horseriding in February. That was surely a fairly serious category error? He could have also linked drug use in some arcane way to banana production in the Dominican Republic, to driving motor cars, or to deaths by dog poo discarded in parks in the UK. A pet subject.

Professor Nuttsacks, having got away with that, seems to have repeated his remarks with bells on late last month. He was, ahem, riding for a fall. 

However we may feel about drugs, legalisation, policing, enforcement, pony riding we must surely feel some sense of empathy with politicians lumbered with an unhelpful &quot;expert&quot; pushing personal views? In the real world most of us who are or have been managers  or Trustees or indeed participants in democratic parties would be likely, I feel, to deal with Professor Nuttsacks or his equivalent in a similar way to Mr Johnson.

Discuss.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The real politic of this is surely that people are not generally banged up for five years for smoking cannabis, dropping pills or snorting powders. As well as being more likely to die or get ill from alcohol you are probably more likely to be arrested or imprisoned for its direct and indirect harms which are many &#8211; often around drunk driving and drunk violence rather than supply of restricted products. </p>
<p>Though even there you could well get arrested, charged, fined or imprisoned for supplying underage, or without a licence, or outside permitted hours, or in a wreckless way to drunks. </p>
<p>And to be fair cigarette smugglers and &#8220;pushers&#8221; can also find themselves on the wrong end of the constabulary and the customologists.</p>
<p>And to continue being fair there is an antisocial element from some parts of drug culture &#8211; the physically addictive sector &#8211; and crime and there are certainly some links between the suppliers of dope and Es and LSD, new very nasty party drugs, and of whizz, coke, crack and opiates. Between little dealers and big gangsters. And also between casual use of drugs and an often horrendous and murderous supply chain.</p>
<p>Any executive and legislature and policers and judgers don&#8217;t just have to weigh up cold hard scientific fact on &#8220;harm&#8221; &#8211; which often isn&#8217;t as cold and hard and factual or uncontested as scientists or indeed politicians tend to make out. Scientific facts i.e. data can often begat several competing theories. And the theories are not themselves facts. They gain and lose popularity and they may be made monkeys of by the passage of time, new data or better thinking.</p>
<p>The politicians and the judges etc must also consider social contexts, crime and disorder, parliamentary politics i.e. can they get things through, and also public palatability. And it is arguably their decisions about enforcement and the practical results of those decisions that really matter.</p>
<p>Professor Nuttsacks originally made his remarks about E and horseriding in February. That was surely a fairly serious category error? He could have also linked drug use in some arcane way to banana production in the Dominican Republic, to driving motor cars, or to deaths by dog poo discarded in parks in the UK. A pet subject.</p>
<p>Professor Nuttsacks, having got away with that, seems to have repeated his remarks with bells on late last month. He was, ahem, riding for a fall. </p>
<p>However we may feel about drugs, legalisation, policing, enforcement, pony riding we must surely feel some sense of empathy with politicians lumbered with an unhelpful &#8220;expert&#8221; pushing personal views? In the real world most of us who are or have been managers  or Trustees or indeed participants in democratic parties would be likely, I feel, to deal with Professor Nuttsacks or his equivalent in a similar way to Mr Johnson.</p>
<p>Discuss.</p>
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		<title>By: Bob B</title>
		<link>http://liberalconspiracy.org/2009/11/02/david-nutt-controversy-a-warning-to-all-you-kids-out-there/#comment-75328</link>
		<dc:creator>Bob B</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Nov 2009 08:58:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.liberalconspiracy.org/?p=8785#comment-75328</guid>
		<description>Lor&#039; bless us, the heavens have moved.

Even the Telegraph is now saying that Alan Johnson - as well as Chris Grayling, his shadow, who supports his decision to sack Prof Nutt -  &quot;should also have had the uneasy feeling that they had lost the argument.&quot;
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/politics/6488025/Sketch-Drugs-adviser-is-harder-Nutt-to-crack.html</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Lor&#8217; bless us, the heavens have moved.</p>
<p>Even the Telegraph is now saying that Alan Johnson &#8211; as well as Chris Grayling, his shadow, who supports his decision to sack Prof Nutt &#8211;  &#8220;should also have had the uneasy feeling that they had lost the argument.&#8221;<br />
<a href="http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/politics/6488025/Sketch-Drugs-adviser-is-harder-Nutt-to-crack.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/politics/6488025/Sketch-Drugs-adviser-is-harder-Nutt-to-crack.html</a></p>
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		<title>By: john b</title>
		<link>http://liberalconspiracy.org/2009/11/02/david-nutt-controversy-a-warning-to-all-you-kids-out-there/#comment-74643</link>
		<dc:creator>john b</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Nov 2009 06:38:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.liberalconspiracy.org/?p=8785#comment-74643</guid>
		<description>@20, I believe a blunt in modern parlance is cannabis mixed with cigar tobacco and rolled in a cigar tube.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@20, I believe a blunt in modern parlance is cannabis mixed with cigar tobacco and rolled in a cigar tube.</p>
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		<title>By: Nicholas Stewart</title>
		<link>http://liberalconspiracy.org/2009/11/02/david-nutt-controversy-a-warning-to-all-you-kids-out-there/#comment-76474</link>
		<dc:creator>Nicholas Stewart</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Nov 2009 06:29:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.liberalconspiracy.org/?p=8785#comment-76474</guid>
		<description>&lt;span class=&quot;topsy_trackback_comment&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;topsy_twitter_username&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;topsy_trackback_content&quot;&gt;#LiberalConspiracy David Nutt controversy: a warning to all you reefer kids out there http://tinyurl.com/ybpwt2g&lt;/span&gt;
&lt;div class=&quot;topsy_trackback_links&quot;&gt;[&lt;a href=&quot;http://twitter.com/citizensmitt/status/5392368454&quot;&gt;Original tweet&lt;/a&gt;]&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/span&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><span class="topsy_trackback_comment"><span class="topsy_twitter_username"><span class="topsy_trackback_content">#LiberalConspiracy David Nutt controversy: a warning to all you reefer kids out there <a href="http://tinyurl.com/ybpwt2g" rel="nofollow">http://tinyurl.com/ybpwt2g</a></span></p>
<div class="topsy_trackback_links">[<a href="http://twitter.com/citizensmitt/status/5392368454">Original tweet</a>]</div>
<p></span></span></p>
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		<title>By: Cosmos</title>
		<link>http://liberalconspiracy.org/2009/11/02/david-nutt-controversy-a-warning-to-all-you-kids-out-there/#comment-76475</link>
		<dc:creator>Cosmos</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Nov 2009 01:02:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.liberalconspiracy.org/?p=8785#comment-76475</guid>
		<description>&lt;span class=&quot;topsy_trackback_comment&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;topsy_twitter_username&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;topsy_trackback_content&quot;&gt;#uk David Nutt controversy: a warning to all you reefer kids out there: There are millions of adults – with .. http://bit.ly/iPovn&lt;/span&gt;
&lt;div class=&quot;topsy_trackback_links&quot;&gt;[&lt;a href=&quot;http://twitter.com/chaostocosmos/status/5378538204&quot;&gt;Original tweet&lt;/a&gt;]&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/span&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><span class="topsy_trackback_comment"><span class="topsy_twitter_username"><span class="topsy_trackback_content">#uk David Nutt controversy: a warning to all you reefer kids out there: There are millions of adults – with .. <a href="http://bit.ly/iPovn" rel="nofollow">http://bit.ly/iPovn</a></span></p>
<div class="topsy_trackback_links">[<a href="http://twitter.com/chaostocosmos/status/5378538204">Original tweet</a>]</div>
<p></span></span></p>
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		<title>By: Robbo</title>
		<link>http://liberalconspiracy.org/2009/11/02/david-nutt-controversy-a-warning-to-all-you-kids-out-there/#comment-73551</link>
		<dc:creator>Robbo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Nov 2009 21:52:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.liberalconspiracy.org/?p=8785#comment-73551</guid>
		<description>Excellent post, Dave</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Excellent post, Dave</p>
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		<title>By: Lee Griffin</title>
		<link>http://liberalconspiracy.org/2009/11/02/david-nutt-controversy-a-warning-to-all-you-kids-out-there/#comment-73545</link>
		<dc:creator>Lee Griffin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Nov 2009 21:30:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.liberalconspiracy.org/?p=8785#comment-73545</guid>
		<description>26, you should know as much as anyone that paperwork in itself can become political.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>26, you should know as much as anyone that paperwork in itself can become political.</p>
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		<title>By: Mike Killingworth</title>
		<link>http://liberalconspiracy.org/2009/11/02/david-nutt-controversy-a-warning-to-all-you-kids-out-there/#comment-73544</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike Killingworth</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Nov 2009 21:21:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.liberalconspiracy.org/?p=8785#comment-73544</guid>
		<description>[26] Why shouldn&#039;t a contributory cause go on a death certificate? However, I suspect that it would be far more likely to if the deceased were of no fixed abode than if they were an accident and emergency charge nurse!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[26] Why shouldn&#8217;t a contributory cause go on a death certificate? However, I suspect that it would be far more likely to if the deceased were of no fixed abode than if they were an accident and emergency charge nurse!</p>
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		<title>By: James D</title>
		<link>http://liberalconspiracy.org/2009/11/02/david-nutt-controversy-a-warning-to-all-you-kids-out-there/#comment-73541</link>
		<dc:creator>James D</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Nov 2009 21:01:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.liberalconspiracy.org/?p=8785#comment-73541</guid>
		<description>This is all because Johnson has gone native and failed to sack the real culprit: Mandie Campbell, a protege of the infernal Lin Homer.

Ultimately, the least that needs doing to sort out the Home Office (if its abolition is never finished) is a near clean sweep of senior civil servants: they&#039;re an exceptionally politicized bunch. There will never be any sensible policy whilst these people are briefing against the truth from inside.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is all because Johnson has gone native and failed to sack the real culprit: Mandie Campbell, a protege of the infernal Lin Homer.</p>
<p>Ultimately, the least that needs doing to sort out the Home Office (if its abolition is never finished) is a near clean sweep of senior civil servants: they&#8217;re an exceptionally politicized bunch. There will never be any sensible policy whilst these people are briefing against the truth from inside.</p>
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		<title>By: Bob B</title>
		<link>http://liberalconspiracy.org/2009/11/02/david-nutt-controversy-a-warning-to-all-you-kids-out-there/#comment-73535</link>
		<dc:creator>Bob B</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Nov 2009 20:27:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.liberalconspiracy.org/?p=8785#comment-73535</guid>
		<description>&quot;good on Nutt for saying the bleedin obvious.&quot;

According to this letter in Monday&#039;s Times from Richard Garside, Director of the Centre for Crime and Justice Studies at King&#039;s College, London, the lecture by Professor Nutt&#039;s conformed with official guidelines:
http://timesonline.typepad.com/science/2009/11/david-nutts-controversial-lecture-conformed-to-government-guidelines.html

As presented, the professor&#039;s lecture in July, which incurred the wrath of the Home Secretary, was given by the professor in his capacity as Professor of Neuropsychopharmacology at Imperial College, not in his capacity as chair of the Advisory Council on the Misuse of Drugs. The decision to sack Professor from his part-time and unpaid advisory post is starting to look very much like a crass attempt at academic censorship.

Alan Johnson is looking more and more daft over this.

For reference, this is the Code of Practice for Scientific Advisory Committees:
http://www.dius.gov.uk/office_for_science/science_in_government/strategy_and_guidance/~/media/publications/F/file42780</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;good on Nutt for saying the bleedin obvious.&#8221;</p>
<p>According to this letter in Monday&#8217;s Times from Richard Garside, Director of the Centre for Crime and Justice Studies at King&#8217;s College, London, the lecture by Professor Nutt&#8217;s conformed with official guidelines:<br />
<a href="http://timesonline.typepad.com/science/2009/11/david-nutts-controversial-lecture-conformed-to-government-guidelines.html" rel="nofollow">http://timesonline.typepad.com/science/2009/11/david-nutts-controversial-lecture-conformed-to-government-guidelines.html</a></p>
<p>As presented, the professor&#8217;s lecture in July, which incurred the wrath of the Home Secretary, was given by the professor in his capacity as Professor of Neuropsychopharmacology at Imperial College, not in his capacity as chair of the Advisory Council on the Misuse of Drugs. The decision to sack Professor from his part-time and unpaid advisory post is starting to look very much like a crass attempt at academic censorship.</p>
<p>Alan Johnson is looking more and more daft over this.</p>
<p>For reference, this is the Code of Practice for Scientific Advisory Committees:<br />
<a href="http://www.dius.gov.uk/office_for_science/science_in_government/strategy_and_guidance/~/media/publications/F/file42780" rel="nofollow">http://www.dius.gov.uk/office_for_science/science_in_government/strategy_and_guidance/~/media/publications/F/file42780</a></p>
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		<title>By: Danar</title>
		<link>http://liberalconspiracy.org/2009/11/02/david-nutt-controversy-a-warning-to-all-you-kids-out-there/#comment-73534</link>
		<dc:creator>Danar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Nov 2009 20:27:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.liberalconspiracy.org/?p=8785#comment-73534</guid>
		<description>Slightly o/t. But, how can you &#039;accidentally&#039; write a report?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Slightly o/t. But, how can you &#8216;accidentally&#8217; write a report?</p>
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		<title>By: Left Outside</title>
		<link>http://liberalconspiracy.org/2009/11/02/david-nutt-controversy-a-warning-to-all-you-kids-out-there/#comment-73531</link>
		<dc:creator>Left Outside</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Nov 2009 20:13:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.liberalconspiracy.org/?p=8785#comment-73531</guid>
		<description>Via &lt;a href=&quot;http://twitter.com/Schroedinger99&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Schroedinger99&lt;/a&gt; This suggests that Alan Johnson really does not have a leg to stand on re #DavidNutt&#039;s sacking. Looks like he stuck to the Code of Practice for Scientific Advisory Committees. Hmmmm, &lt;a href=&quot;http://bit.ly/3MMVnm&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://bit.ly/3MMVnm&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Via <a href="http://twitter.com/Schroedinger99" rel="nofollow">Schroedinger99</a> This suggests that Alan Johnson really does not have a leg to stand on re #DavidNutt&#8217;s sacking. Looks like he stuck to the Code of Practice for Scientific Advisory Committees. Hmmmm, <a href="http://bit.ly/3MMVnm" rel="nofollow">http://bit.ly/3MMVnm</a></p>
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		<title>By: Dick the Prick</title>
		<link>http://liberalconspiracy.org/2009/11/02/david-nutt-controversy-a-warning-to-all-you-kids-out-there/#comment-73526</link>
		<dc:creator>Dick the Prick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Nov 2009 19:57:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.liberalconspiracy.org/?p=8785#comment-73526</guid>
		<description>@25 - err..all perfectly sensible but can I just be an absolute prick as per my moniker - hmm, drug treatment does not work in any way a professional manner. It&#039;s taken on an air of counselling - which I tend to agree with personally. I don&#039;t think treatment can occur if the patient is unwilling and they lead incredibly chaotic lifestyles. It&#039;s a really legally tricky set of circumstances - if a smackhead ODs then is there blaim? I guess it&#039;s similar to the assisted suicide thingy. 

 I accidently spent ages doing a report for the NTA and the conclusion of which was &#039;drug treatment&#039;s a bit shit in some places and abstinence is a bit idealistic - harm minimization please&#039;. It all depends on what you want to do when you find a smackhead or junkie of anything really. It does seem kind of seem odd that the unhidden grouping of those addicted to prescription drugs or readily available drugs is overlooked - therefore it&#039;s not really a &#039;health&#039; thing but a social problem; from that it can be assumed that it&#039;s the anti-social nature of how they&#039;re traded.

 The alcohol stats are complete bollox. 8500 booze deaths per year? Multiply it by 8 and I reckon we&#039;re getting somewhere. There&#039;s a few studies of prevalence stats out there and you can judge it yourself now everyone has to recycle their bottles - some people are drinking fantastically serious amounts of decent booze in their homes and it&#039;s gonna be the heart attack that kills them, sober.

 Anyway - good on Nutt for saying the bleedin obvious.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@25 &#8211; err..all perfectly sensible but can I just be an absolute prick as per my moniker &#8211; hmm, drug treatment does not work in any way a professional manner. It&#8217;s taken on an air of counselling &#8211; which I tend to agree with personally. I don&#8217;t think treatment can occur if the patient is unwilling and they lead incredibly chaotic lifestyles. It&#8217;s a really legally tricky set of circumstances &#8211; if a smackhead ODs then is there blaim? I guess it&#8217;s similar to the assisted suicide thingy. </p>
<p> I accidently spent ages doing a report for the NTA and the conclusion of which was &#8216;drug treatment&#8217;s a bit shit in some places and abstinence is a bit idealistic &#8211; harm minimization please&#8217;. It all depends on what you want to do when you find a smackhead or junkie of anything really. It does seem kind of seem odd that the unhidden grouping of those addicted to prescription drugs or readily available drugs is overlooked &#8211; therefore it&#8217;s not really a &#8216;health&#8217; thing but a social problem; from that it can be assumed that it&#8217;s the anti-social nature of how they&#8217;re traded.</p>
<p> The alcohol stats are complete bollox. 8500 booze deaths per year? Multiply it by 8 and I reckon we&#8217;re getting somewhere. There&#8217;s a few studies of prevalence stats out there and you can judge it yourself now everyone has to recycle their bottles &#8211; some people are drinking fantastically serious amounts of decent booze in their homes and it&#8217;s gonna be the heart attack that kills them, sober.</p>
<p> Anyway &#8211; good on Nutt for saying the bleedin obvious.</p>
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		<title>By: Bob B</title>
		<link>http://liberalconspiracy.org/2009/11/02/david-nutt-controversy-a-warning-to-all-you-kids-out-there/#comment-73523</link>
		<dc:creator>Bob B</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Nov 2009 19:48:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.liberalconspiracy.org/?p=8785#comment-73523</guid>
		<description>Not to worry. All these apparent contradictions and perplexities in Home Office policy - and in working out the cause of death for death certificants - will soon be resolved if the Tories are elected to government:

&quot;Business is poised to gain much greater sway over Whitehall under a Conservative government, with corporate &#039;big hitters&#039; being drafted in to help shake up departmental spending and transform the civil service culture.&quot;
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/be968f2a-c72b-11de-bb6f-00144feab49a.html?nclick_check=1

Well, got to find jobs for all those redundant and superfluous bankers somehow.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Not to worry. All these apparent contradictions and perplexities in Home Office policy &#8211; and in working out the cause of death for death certificants &#8211; will soon be resolved if the Tories are elected to government:</p>
<p>&#8220;Business is poised to gain much greater sway over Whitehall under a Conservative government, with corporate &#8216;big hitters&#8217; being drafted in to help shake up departmental spending and transform the civil service culture.&#8221;<br />
<a href="http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/be968f2a-c72b-11de-bb6f-00144feab49a.html?nclick_check=1" rel="nofollow">http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/be968f2a-c72b-11de-bb6f-00144feab49a.html?nclick_check=1</a></p>
<p>Well, got to find jobs for all those redundant and superfluous bankers somehow.</p>
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		<title>By: the a&#38;e charge nurse</title>
		<link>http://liberalconspiracy.org/2009/11/02/david-nutt-controversy-a-warning-to-all-you-kids-out-there/#comment-73521</link>
		<dc:creator>the a&#38;e charge nurse</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Nov 2009 19:37:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.liberalconspiracy.org/?p=8785#comment-73521</guid>
		<description>[24] how about this one? 
Lets say somebody with a serious drink problem gets pissed and frequently falls over. 
A head injury finally leads to a serious brain haemorrhage - the subsequent rise in intracranial pressure kills the patients (it is noted on C/T scan that there is both acute and chronic bleeding) - the patient also suffers coagulopathy due to years of alcohol abuse.
http://www.entrepreneur.com/tradejournals/article/77186911.html

Should the death certificate simply record acute subdural haemorrhage or should it highlight alcohol dependency as a contributing cause as well?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[24] how about this one?<br />
Lets say somebody with a serious drink problem gets pissed and frequently falls over.<br />
A head injury finally leads to a serious brain haemorrhage &#8211; the subsequent rise in intracranial pressure kills the patients (it is noted on C/T scan that there is both acute and chronic bleeding) &#8211; the patient also suffers coagulopathy due to years of alcohol abuse.<br />
<a href="http://www.entrepreneur.com/tradejournals/article/77186911.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.entrepreneur.com/tradejournals/article/77186911.html</a></p>
<p>Should the death certificate simply record acute subdural haemorrhage or should it highlight alcohol dependency as a contributing cause as well?</p>
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