A bit hysterical, isn’t it?

Someone’s been at The Turner Diaries again.

Chickens, Home and Roost. Ignoring the white working class and dismissing their wants as being unpalatable has got us all in this mess. Now they feel betrayed and the BNP are exploiting it, Labour is no longer seen as trustworthy and gaining it back could takes a decade… Well done!

What should be done to reduce the likelihood of such events occuring or minimising the impact of these nightmare scenarios?

Resilience would come from greater interdependence between different communities. Does government policy support this objective in any meaningful way?

Stop all this foul rubbish about the “white working class”. Racist scum are racist scum and they have nothing to do with the working class of any colour. Let’s get that very straight. A large part of the reason is that Labour holds its potential supporters in so little esteem that it assumes they must all be bigoted cretins. Labour has pushed the racist button again and again, with dog whistle after dog whistle. Gordon Brown’s “British jobs for British workers” should have been the point at which all decent people on the left cried enough, but there weren’t any.

Labour instead has used every excuse to build authoritarianism. They’ve demonised anyone who’s different and promoted racism. Just one of the many reasons why the left in Britain should be very, very ashamed of itself.

Good article. I’m not sure you can classify those who vote for the BNP as racists necessarily, unlike the leaders who most definately are. I think that even though racism is a component of the BNP’s litany of guff, to the voter, it’s more about their disenfranchisement and isolation. I agree with the author that the BBC’s decision was the correct one.

We have an opportunity to act now, in their relative nacency to highlight how utterly incoherent and illogical their policies are. It won’t be easy as in order to show them up for the fools they are all the reasonable parties have to work together and that seems incredibly unlikely in this election cycle. I’ve never seen such contempt held between the Tories & Labour in my life time. The tribalism that they both affect is perhaps fun for nerds & geeks like those here (no offence, but we all are) but for normal people it’s off putting, tedious, hypocritical bullshit.

When more people watch Coronation Street or X factor than vote it’s apparent that the majority party at the next election will be apathy. Apathy borne from frustration, disenchantment, disgust and tedium. I’m not a particular supporter of changing the first past the post system but, if any of the God awful scenarios listed above (all perfectly possible) are in any way prevented then i’m all for experimenting. We need to advertise, eulogize and celebrate democracy yet the people feel more alienated than ever. One of the first things an old Tory told me when I got this job was, ‘if they don’t vote Tory, they can fuck off’. He wasn’t being rude about it – it’s the same for every party and people are just bloody sick of it.

It seams to me that the best way to avoid escalation would be to avoid responding to the election of TWO MEP’s from the BNP and an appearance on Question Time by publishing Charlie Manson wet-dream race-war fantasies on the Internet as if they were serious comment.

i too think the greatest problem tonight won’t be the appearance of griffin (ugh) but the lack of probing and exposing questions.

And yes, racists are racists, and to be a member of the bnp you have to be one. To be a voter you only need to be disillusioned on one or two issues. Stop shouting scum and start asking them what your party needs to do to get their votes back.

I blogged on this saying very roughly the same thing – although I don’t support a fascist on a chat show…apart from that

Was it not only a few months in Greece,that a few thousand Muslims ( a tiny ´minority of extremists) rioted for several days as the rumour spread,that a Greek policeman had defaced a copy of the Koran. This event apprearing to have remarkable similarity to the very same scenerio that is habitually attributed to Christians in Pakistan,followed by kangaroo court, lynch mob justice and blind-eye law enforcement.
And Rosengaard,Malmo,Sweden.Following the French Banlieus model.Which then catches on in Gotebjerg and Uppsala recently. Starting street fires,burning shops,and ambushing the fire brigade,with a 6,kilo rock,thrown from a motorway bridge,and through the windscreen,narrowly missing the fire fighters.Thereby,tactically preventing the emergency services from doing their job without massive police protection.

My point being.Whether tommorow or 50 years from now,will elements of our Islamic communities actually need the existence of the equivalent far-right white extremists,to provoke them into the above scenerio describéd above. They are perhaps not incapable of acting on their own intiative,being expert at cultivating victimhood and grievance mongering.

Your above concerns are hardly a revelation.If anything they are a logical conclusion.
As that old sage George Orwell wrote:

” We have now sunk to a depth where the restatement of the obvious has become the duty of intelligent men”

@David Osler I have a question for you.What exactly do you mean by……

“and the Left is just as much outside it as ever”.—-Which Left is this>??

And a suggestion:There is a journalist much despised here on L.C,—reffered to as “Mad Mel”—Melanie Phillips.
Article 19th October,Daily Mail (The True Cause of the B.N.P.’s Rise )

As disliked as she is here,even a broken clock can be right twice a day,as the expression goes.

@Shatterface

“A bit hysterical isn’t it ”

How much is a ” bit”—10% 20%.
And for how long is this a ” bit hysterical”.? Tommorow ? Next ´Month ? In forty years when both you and I are perhaps assigned to oblivion,leaving the poor innocent bastards of the future,paying the price for our present.?
Did previous generations neglect their duty and throw us to the wolves,in a stupor of misplaced hedonistic self-righteous indulgence ?.

“A bit hysterical”. Now why do I imagine it is that very “Ideology” –the “bit hysterical ideology”, that has contributed to the creation of this “Frankenstein “monster.
Talk about denial in´the face of unpleasant facts.Haven’t we been going too far out of our way for the last three decades,with a denial in the face of unpleasant facts`?

Regards (Unafilliated) journeyman.

I don’t understand. Irish nationalists can kill thousands of people – bombed, shot, beaten to death – and a youthful Dave, as he recently pointed out (not to mention Bob Ainsworth), supported them. If that’s what they felt they had to do to defend ‘their people’ then so be it. One of their front men was a guest at the recent Labour conference. A Guardian journalist and (later) Cabinet Minister learns the identities of the Birmingham pub bombers – keeps schtum and is quite open about keeping schtum.

Yet British nationalists are apparently something to be absolutely terrified of. I just don’t understand. I’ve never seen ‘moral panic’ like it – the BNP get a mention on Radio 5 about every 10 minutes – and have done all week. Weird.

I wrote a couple of years back and IMHO it still stands up :

You have to assume that Nick Griffin and his closest followers are driven by either extreme ideology, which may not be National Socialism but partakes thereof, or hatred of non-Brits. How else have they stayed motivated through all the long years of struggle after the National Front fell apart ? Given the amount of harassment – up to and including violent assault – that they must have had over the years, they must be pretty committed to have stayed the course.

But the new BNP voters – and activists too – don’t do fascism. They’re British, damn it !

I can’t see why it’s so hard to get your head round the idea that no indigenous population likes becoming a minority in what previously was their own country. We really are indulging in a pioneering experiment here – or, as the Observer put it back in 2000 : “It would be the first time in history that a major indigenous population has voluntarily become a minority, rather than through war, famine or disease.”

“Tonight in the pub, by no means a bastion of bigotry, nevertheless much chat from sundry locals about Nick Griffin appearing tomorrow on Question Time. Much was seriously depressing. He “has a point” say people I have thought were decent.”

@11

“as the Observer put it back in 2000 :”

I think you’ll find that was Anthony Browne writing in the Observer, sowing the seeds of resentment that would help the right (and by extension his right-wing think tank Policy Exchange) gain traction and money.

http://torytroll.blogspot.com/2008/09/anthony-browne-and-boris-johnson.html

http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/2205

‘How much is a ” bit”—10% 20%.
And for how long is this a ” bit hysterical”.? Tommorow ? Next ´Month ? In forty years when both you and I are perhaps assigned to oblivion,leaving the poor innocent bastards of the future,paying the price for our present.?’

You and Osler are obviously obviously reading the same survivalist manuals.

From the OP:

‘The most obvious one that comes to mind is the issue of how we have reached this tinderbox after 12 years of New Labour government,’

We haven’t.

See all those stories above: you made them up, remember?

We don’t need to explain how we reached a situation we haven’t actually reached.

Liberal immigration policy + recession & high unemployment = support for the BNP

PS – re Dave’s fantasies of doom –

a) did rioting erupt across Holland when Pim Fortuyn was killed by a white leftist ?Or are we in worse case than they ?

b) there is one – and only one – possible scenario involving violent far-righties that worries me – that’s the bomb-outside-mosque one – or even in the street. The calculation would be that it would trigger subcontinent-type massacres of
any and all whites in the vicinity – followed by mass exodus of survivors. When you look at what happened in Bradford in 2001 – where 23 elderly Manningham Labour Club members were saved from immolation by seconds after a rumour – just a rumour – that the BNP were in town, you have to wonder what the response would be if something nasty actually did happen.

In contrast, the 7/7 bombings provoked what ? Some idiot in Edinburgh tried to burn a mosque, a taxi-driver got badly beaten up in Kingston on Thames and someone was rude to someone on a bus. Not exactly pogroms.

c) bluepill – I’ve always assumed the unnamed demographer Browne quoted was David Coleman – prof of demography at Oxford. Are his figures wrong ?

The idea that the “indigenous population” will become a minority is just hysterical rubbish. The proportion of the population with non-british ancestry will probably grow, but nothing like to the levels where it would be a majority. Most of the children of the current immigrants will integrate succesfully and be british to anyone who doesn’t subscribe to blood purity theories of the nation.

It is also hysterical rubbish to think that 2 MEPs, 6% of the vote and an appearence on question time means that Britain is on the verge of fascism. The opinion polls (someone posted on this a while back) asking what people thought of the smaller parties showed that 85% of the population disliked the BNP – a far higher unpopularity rating than for any other party.

I suspect there will always be a 3/4% of the electorate who are racist, but Militant in the 1980s were a far more popular political force than the BNP, and look where they are today. Things can change.

“Militant in the 1980s were a far more popular political force than the BNP”

I was a member in the 70s !

“The idea that the “indigenous population” will become a minority is just hysterical rubbish.”

I think that’s called ‘proof by assertion’.

Binky – do you have to ? This was quite a sensible thread five minutes ago.

@Laban
Good post.
Its almost as if people believe that for some reason history has decided to take a long vacation and stop repeating itself.Infact, the West has managed to avoid any major conflicts on its own soil for several decades,with smaller proxy wars instead.This has manifested in a belief of omnipotent invunerablity (it can never happen again and it can never happen here ) All that was some other time and some other place.
What foolish complacency and arrogance.

The artifical utopian construct, of enforced ” Unillateral” suspension of hard-wired human nature, is an invitation to disaster. And all to satisfy the “pioneering experiment” as
Laban (11) so neatly put it, of an idealistic adolescent academic fetish, quango careerist-double -think ,and the vested interest of mercenary corpororate greed.

@15 – Having seen MigrationWatch twist figures to the extent that they’re claiming they show the exact opposite of what they’re showing, I wouldn’t put anything past the scaremongers, especially Policy Exchange hacks with an agenda to push.

@shatterface

“You and Osler are obviously reading the same survivalist manuals.
From the O.P.”

Question:Who the fuck is the “O.P.”
And I have never read a survivalist manual in my life.In fact i wouldn’t know one if it dropped on my head.

“see all those stories above ; You made them up ,remember?

Hey,man–whats this a guessing game.? Made up what stories.?Be specific.You can’t really be suggesting that the Greece-Sweden events i described are a product of my imagination`?

“We don’t need to explain how we reached a situation we haven’t actually reached”

Right. Look–I didn’t write the article above “Shatterface”.I don’t run LIberal Conspiracy.
If Liberal Conspiracy didn’t want arguments like mine,they shouldn’t allow their fellow comrades to encourage it with articles like the one here.Their just going to have to try harder to keep their “Bloggers-Journalist in line in future,so as to avoid the indignity of people like me being accused of lying. Or is this “Sally-Brown-Shirt fly-paper.for the amusement of bored people?

Awaiting a Reply.

@shatterface

I repeat my question,
Are you saying that my description of streets riots in Greece / Rosengård,Gotebjorg and Uppsala in Sweden are my fabrications and not something reported in the MSM media.In my post (10 )….when you write (13 )

” see all those stories above,you made them up ,remember”

Yes or no.

‘OP’ means ‘ORIGINAL POST’.

I quoted you, then mocked you; then quoted the OP and mocked that too.

Now read what I wrote again and wind your neck in.

@shatterface

“O.P means ORIGINAL POST”

Well,let me see if I can decifer that. I take it the orginal post you refer to is David Oslers(White Riot; Welcome to Main-Stream Fascism) or am i being dense?

Hey , I tell you what,you didn’t answer my the question I posed to use you twice ,in fact you insist the events I reffered to never–ever happened.

” Now read what I wrote again and wind your neck in”

Ok,your Lordship.Lets stop it here shall we. I know when I have to doff my cap at my betters.
This web-site is becoming more in-breed and incestuous by the minute.
I don’t have time ´to play mind games with a different breed of psycho monster.
Chickens-Home-Roost.—Be Seeing You

We’re a small tea shop in Brighton – read about our recent experience of Nick Griffin and whether we think he should be on Question Time: http://www.metrodeco.wordpress.com

“I can’t see why it’s so hard to get your head round the idea that no indigenous population likes becoming a minority in what previously was their own country.”

Because that might result in people suggesting limits on immigration. And of course anything the Daily Mail supports must be opposed.

@27

Or it could be that the sheer number of times this island’s been invaded and had it’s population mixed over the last few millennia makes the whole idea of an “indigenous” population laughable. It’s a dogwhistle euphemism for “white”, and a particularly lame one at that.

Coupled with that, the hysterical “minority in their own country” articles are based on poor interpretations of data written expressedly to frighten and cause hysteria. The chances of it happening any time in the next thousand years are practically zero.

Oh, and the “proxy wars” weren’t anything to do with “hard-wired human nature”, they were goaded into it by the two superpowers who needed client states to sell weapons to in order to keep their most profitable export market (i.e. arms and military gear) going after WWII ended. Far cheaper to the corporations to keep making weapons than retooling those swords into ploughshares.

@bluepillnation (27)

(1) The number of times I have come across this crass,simplistic “always a nation of immigrants ” or “mongrel race” play with semantics..
If it was possible to get and entire generation of western,poly-tech,hippies to believe Mao Tse Tung, a genocidal murdering bastard and his little Red Book,where the answer to mans problems,then it is possible for them to believe anything.
Well,as you hopefully now realize,many years later,Mao ,Stalin were not the unjust victims of C.I.A propaganda.Which just goes to show how wrong the borderless,utopian,brotherhood of man,anti-nation,anti-culture,anti-race,everybody in grey standard issue one-piece uniform—righteous idealists can be..
And will stop at nothing in disenfranchising and ridiculing the natural “hard-wiring” of tribal evolution and identity—when it suits them—-meaning when its anti-white,but making an absolute hypocritical ideological two-faced U-Turn when it doesn’t suit them,
when reffering to Palestine,Tibet ,Watusi-land or South Africa.

“The whole idea of an indigenous population laughable”

Really.? And is this a “unillateral declaration” on behalf of my country,history,identity,culture,ancestory and roots that as with so many nations taken thousands of years to evolve,or is the whole planet going to simultaneously,down tools and join in a “multi-latteral” suspension of tribal.-spiritual identity and the socially stabilizing adhesive that guards us against endless national fragmentation and war.As if human -history has not expirienced enough already,when we violate and attack it.?

If I where to follow your line of reasoning,it would be just hunky-dory if in 1950,vast hordes of Russian refugees with a high-birth rate and Stalinist ideology had migrated to Britain for the last 60 years,forming no-go enclaves,out breeding the indigenous population,pushing for totalitarian concessions,and going ga-ga at Cartoons of Marx.
Do you notice anything strange about the above theoretical scenerio?
Thats right,you guessed it–not a non-white immigrant to be seen anywhere.They were all Russian.

“makes the whole idea of an “Indigenous “population laughable ”

Following your line of logic,i must then presume that nations which have not been subject to any comparable amount of immigration/Invasion would be granted special exception by you ,and allowed to claim indigenous nationhood status,such as Denmark,Sweden,Norway,and Watusi land.

I.think however we might find one point where we agree.and that is this.
Now of course I cannot know which ancestory,roots,race,history you personally derive or are associated with.And if it influences a vested interest,a bias or agenda,but……..
My,country,ancestory,nationhood,roots.history indigenous culture and the all the religious,philosophical,literary,symbolic,tribal,and most of all spiritual associations that it contains are not ……

“Laughable”

Debatable,Yes. Questionable Yes. Deserving of more empirical analysis.Yes
But to arrogantly dismiss such vital bonds of social-cohesion in such an off-hand manner is simply playing with fire. From my point of view,to do so is a form of ideological fascism,when pursued with such religious zeal and certainty.And may trigger off some fundamental spiritual instincts that no artificially constructed crusade for human perfectionism will allow itself to be forceabley,kicking and screaming,shoe-horned into.

Suspending human nature,to satiate the academic projections of some form of future
Heaven on Earth,are more liable to invite some future scenerio of stacks of dead bodies than any other..regarless of how all would like to avoid it.

You mighty well see my “views”as not being a “view”but a mental abberation,prejudice,or lack of moral or intellectual sophistication.But no.I stand morally and intelllectually ,equal to you.We just have a different “View”. And any other way of looking at it are irresponsible because of the future consequences if one of us happens to be fundamentally wrong.

Best Regards
journeyman

Sorry, I don’t want to derail the conversation but the casual misogyny of this line: blows a nightclub-load of dancing slags to kingdom come is really disturbing to me. You’ve not used such derogatory language in reference to any of the other groups mentioned in the possible scenarios mentioned, so please have a think about why you’d feel comfortable slipping in that kind of offensive language in such an offhand way…

I agree with the other posters, though, who say that any one of these situations seems unlikely to result in the pandemonium predicted; they might cause a slight swing in opinion but I imagine it would inform the policies of the winning party rather than actually change who the winner would be.

@29

You decry my apparent “arrogance”, while making sweeping assertions about what kind of person you think I must therefore be for holding the views I do (which again, you assert without a shred of evidence)? Sir, I suggest you remove that log from your eye – and sharpish!

You manage to throw just about every tabloid canard into your diatribe (“no-go enclaves”, “outbreeding the indigenous population”) while trying to claim that those who call those canards out for the distortions they are are “borderless,utopian,brotherhood of man,anti-nation,anti-culture,anti-race,everybody in grey standard issue one-piece uniform—righteous idealists”. Nice.

And as for your “tribal.-spiritual identity and the socially stabilizing adhesive that guards us against endless national fragmentation and war” – that may have worked for a while, but no more – not since we’ve been in a situation where there exists enough firepower on this planet to annihilate humanity as a whole several times over. You misconstrue me, sir – I suspect very few of my ilk are in favour of “everybody in grey standard issue one-piece uniform”. My creed is to celebrate what we have in common and tolerate those differences we, for whatever reason, feel we can’t celebrate.

But hey, to the right-wing bunker mindset, we’re all under attack all the time, and anyone to the left of Reagan is a dirty Commie. I can’t help but think of Butters from South Park after Cartman’s convinced him the world has ended.

And is this a “unillateral declaration” on behalf of my country,history,identity,culture,ancestory and roots that as with so many nations taken thousands of years to evolve

The point is that that process of cultural evolution is (a) still ongoing, and (b) entirely the product of successive (and nearly continuous) waves of immigration. How do you justify drawing an arbitrary line at some point in recent history and saying “no more change”?

You can try to stand athwart the tracks of history yelling “stop!”, but I don’t much fancy your chances.

@33

See @32.

Also, I was specifically referring to the UK.

@bluepillnation / Dunc /Blinky

Thanks for the response.Would like to continue later this evening.

@bluepillnation

“My….”borderless,utopian,brotherhood of man,anti-nation,anti-culture,anti-race,everybody in standard issue Maoism….ect ect …quote above ,was meant as just one example of how in the sixties,a generation of young could be captivated by attractive sounding concepts,and developed into the non-critical echo -chamber devoid of decent scrutiny.
Not attributed to you personally.
In other words as I said ” then it is possible for “THEM” to believe in anything.

I was using a caracuteur based on personal expirience to get across an idea on how we can all to easily become enslaved to notions that we would never imagine to be flawed ,seduced by their “philanthropic”associations.
And just as then in thé ´60′s’ there is now another school of thought,using the same semantic techniques(,regardless of what you believe personally agree with) ,and is evidently applying them to “Their” next established dogma.
“They”having become now–the new status-quo and establishment throughout goverment ,media , education and arts.
Some such as myself,also primarily a former 68,leftist,.have begun to be conscious of that movement which was originally a force for enlightenment, has become intractable in its arrogance and blind to its own collective oppressive monopoly of morality.

it is now becoming evident that we are in a circular argument. Even if I did get someone on the left to agree with me that ” IF” the Muslim population increases significantly in Britian ,and Europe ,that we would be inviting a recipe for conflict.
The answer I always recieve ,is that the statistics supporting this assumption are exaggerated and in the sevice of racism.

If ,however,it became undeniably true that at some point in the future,this scenerio of British indigenous people could become a minority in their own country.I am then confronted with that which you claim above.Which was………….át..(27)

“Or the shear number of times this Island and had its population mixed over the last few millennia ,makes the whole idea of an indigenous population laughable.It s a dog-whistle euphamism for white and a pretty lame one at that.” END ´QUOTE.”

So do you realize yourself what you are doing ? Even If I could prove the worst statistic outcome.,you would then morally sanction the “Minoritizing” of white British people.
So naturally, as your argument takes this Win-Win,….Lose–Win always in your favour,that which you are really doing–and you might find this difficult to fathom–is making a “declaration of war” against an entire people.

You claim their demographic fears are groundless,
Then you go on to say even if they are not groundless .who gives a fuck anyway,because any such fears are racially motivated.
The perfect “Double-Bind” reminicent of 14th Christianity and its heresy laws.
Damned if you do. And Damned if you don.t.

“Mý creed is to celebrate what we have in common and tolerate those differences those differences we ,for whatever reason feel we can’t celebrate”.

Well,we are all featherless bipeds.And there will be the unaviodable wailing and gnashing of teeth toward the great melting pot of Kingdom-Come.Naturally such base instincts such as the wish to be surrounded by the our own kind ,must be erradicated.And even the instinct for ” Flight or Fight”.
But in the end we shall learn to love Big Brother.

Best Regards
journeyman

The way I see it, we can continue to yield to what you describe as “human nature”, and continue to bicker and wage war in order to squabble over the remaining resources this planet has to offer – wasting even more resources in the process, or we can start thinking of the global populace as fellow human beings and figure out how we can get out of the corner we’ve painted ouselves into.

I make no bones about having idealistic views, alongside a heavy dose of cynicism – but the alternative is too depressing to contemplate.

jglitter – while I hate to defend Dave (unless against a court action), his stuff about the ‘dancing slags’ is a quote from the jihadi wannabees who were convicted of plotting to blow up nightclubs.

JAWAD AKBAR: “You could get jobs like this, yeah, like for example the biggest nightclub in central London. Where now here, yeah, now no one can even turn around and say ‘Oh they were innocent,’ – those slags dancing around.

OMAR KHYAM: “If you got a job in a bar, yeah, or club, say the Ministry of Sound, what are you planning to do there then?”

JAWAD AKBAR: “Blow the whole thing up.”

OMAR KHYAM: “Right.”

@Laban

Great, thanks for clarifying that. I was a bit surprised to see the phrase without knowing that bit of context, hence my reaction…

Serious question for Bluepillnation: do you believe that there are any indigenous peoples anywhere in the world?