Live chat – #BBCQT tonight


9:28 pm - October 22nd 2009

by Sunny Hundal    


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BBC Question Time starts at 10:30pm but it’s already being trailed on BBC News 24…

Update: Some reviews from across the web following QT
Our Kingdom: BBC/BNP after the programme
Shiraz Socialist: A Bonnie lass routs Griffin
Hagley Road to Ladywood: The BNP has the tabloids to thank
Bad Conscience: Not the apocalypse, but…
Paperhouse: Nick Griffin’s day out
Left Outside: Give ‘em enough rope
Sim-O: “I’m scum and I’m a racist”

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About the author
Sunny Hundal is editor of LC. Also: on Twitter, at Pickled Politics and Guardian CIF.
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Reader comments


Am I the only twisted fucker on the internet who’s quite looking forward to this? It’s like a carnival of anti-fascism. We’re having an anti-fascist party.

well going by the clips, it won’t be as bad as i feared. So I’m looking forward to it too!

The BBC are a being way over the top with their build up coverage. It’s like a build up to some pay per view title fight…

It’s like a build up to some pay per view title fight…

Griffin was a boxing blue, so I think it only fair we put him in cage fight with Chuck Liddell.

Now that I would pay to see.

Well I agree Sunny – the clips have given me reassurance that Griffin did not get away lightly. It looked as though he was somewhat of a joke-figure by the end. Personally iI feel that Griffin works best when he’s demonising minorities – that’s to say, it’s the negative points that win him the votes of the disaffected. As soon as he starts talking about what the BNP might actually advocate in terms of policy, almost everybody can recognise that the BNP are a joke.

Nick Robinson on the BBC was doing his usual tory brown nose routine. Because the tory establishment have decided to attack the BNP. (Maybe they feel threatened in some seats) the left has to do nothing.

Robinson was spinning against Griffin like a top. Obviously the word has gone out from tory central office to attack the BNP, and all the usual obedient spinners are doing what they are told. If Labour took on the BNP Robinson and his tory spinners would not be so helpful.

The Nicky-G-Conspiracy-o-Meter currently stands at 0

This is going to be a televised lynching, isn’t it?

Where’s the popcorn.

The Nicky-G-Conspiracy-o-Meter currently stands at 2

I was a bit sceptical about this becoming the Nick Griffin show.

But fuck it, Dimbleby’s killing him.

The Nicky-G-Conspiracy-o-Meter currently stands at 4

I’m getting a surge of patriotism here….

Nazi Nick is doing lots of smiling, but he is also shaking and twitching a lot. Reckon he was nervous as fuck.

The Nicky-G-Conspiracy-o-Meter currently stands at 6

(I make this two conspiracy theories every time he opens his gob!! But it’s ok, the KKK is non-violent)

The Nicky-G-Conspiracy-o-Meter currently stands at 8

This is definitely a televised lynching.

First he claims that he’s not an anti-semite because he supports Israel

Then he’s saying he’s not an anti-Muslim bigot because he was against the war in Iraq.

What an arse.

All day on Twitter, the Real Nick Griffin has been claiming to be literally shitting himself.

Looking at his face now, I’m starting to think that the Real Nick Griffin is in fact the real Nick Griffin.

I’ve never been so happy for an article of mine to be so comprehensively refuted by empirical events.

Hurrah for QT!

‘This is definitely a televised lynching.’

So are you going to take back any of the claims you’ve been making about the BBC being the recruiting arm of the far right?

And is ‘lynching’ really a word you want to use in this context – for any number of reasons?

Oh dear, dear Shatterface, you really are the concern troll’s concern troll.

@21 Its true, you talk crap. Thank God!

I know it’s not a fashionable sentiment on the left, but… I love my country sometimes. I really do. That was Pixar level life-affirming. It couldn’t have felt better if Dimbleby had wiped out an army of Daleks at the end.

He definitely muffed up on the holocaust. Got the feeling that some of his clapping for Bonnie Greer was meant to say “look at me, I’m not racist, I’m clapping a black person!”.

However, thought he made an interesting point about Churchill’s racial views that nobody wanted to address.

‘Oh dear, dear Shatterface, you really are the concern troll’s concern troll.’

Why don’t you take a look at the hysterical outpourings on this site and others (David Osler’s article earlier today being a spectacularly paranoid example) for the last few months and tell us who was right – those of us who said Griffin would look a prat left to his own devices, or the fantasists who thought Griffin is such a powerful orator that the public couldn’t be trusted to hear him speak, so he should either be banned outright or the panel should be loaded against him?

And I missed ‘Dollhouse’ for this.

Went to a really good gig tonight. I mean, it was — hold up, have I missed something?

Evening. Well, that could have been a lot worse 🙂

Shame Chris Huhne didn’t get to lob the miscegenation policy issue at him properly (kinda got lost in a bit of a scrum at one point). But Bonnie Greer’s “Great Aunt Laverne” schtick gave Griffin enormous problems and was nicely effective, as was Sayeeda Warsi and yes, finest performance by Dimblebore for many years.

Straw waffled far too much (surprise, surprise), and because of his evasiveness doesn’t scrape a pass mark. I’m harsh, but fair… 🙂

One of the best moments was when “Mr. Potato-skin Head” BNP-audience member put his ‘oh-so-clever’ comment about white unemployment and immigration. Yes, that was a man that we’d all be proud to…not associate ourselves with. Anyone else reckon the BNP audience members were probably a worse advert for their party than their sweaty, shifty, lying, bigoted leader? Oh, ok, just me then.

I think Griffin got what everybody expected. He was slaughtered.

And I was glad to see it, though I’d stop short at delirious, self-congratulatory flag-waving, (@13, @25).

But in my opinion, the biggest loser today was the BBC. Dimble-BBC prefaced the show with the usual “the panel don’t know what questions will be asked”, but it was a clear set-up: the panelists were (mostly) armed with an array of quotations – guns ‘n’ ammo – to wave in Griffin’s face.

The key questions surrounded the BNP and their legitimacy as a party.

All of which rather enforces the (in my view, erroneous) opinion that the BBC is, as Griffin suggests, an ultra left-wing institution. Paranoia somewhat justified!

What’s more, there was no comment whatsoever on the postal strike and very little on the economy, social housing, etc. A lot of real issues were swept under the carpet in an orgy of BNP-bashing – which is fine, but I don’t believe for one moment that any BNP voters will have been convinced to switch their allegiance.

It appeared to be a liberal wank-fest. That’s all.

30. Alisdair Cameron

Wasn’t Straw shockingly bad, mind? Truly abysmal.Griffin odious, full of twisted crap as expected, Greer okay, if a little shaky with some of her haughty assertions, Huhne decent, Warsi effective, but hers isn’t a very nice message.

But in my opinion, the biggest loser today was the BBC. Dimble-BBC prefaced the show with the usual “the panel don’t know what questions will be asked”, but it was a clear set-up: the panelists were (mostly) armed with an array of quotations – guns ‘n’ ammo – to wave in Griffin’s face.

Um, that is sort of how I want QT to be, people actually having a clue what they are talking about. What would the alternative be? Be invited for a dinner with Robert Mugabe but brush up on Gothic architecture?

All of which rather enforces the (in my view, erroneous) opinion that the BBC is, as Griffin suggests, an ultra left-wing institution. Paranoia somewhat justified!

“Ultra-leftist” being synonymous with “not racist.” Good work

BTW, I think Straw started really well, if a bit verbose. But he is a Labour Minister, so what do you expect, he ended up skirting and dodging issues. Still stuck it to Griffin good enough for my tastes

‘Anyone else reckon the BNP audience members were probably a worse advert for their party than their sweaty, shifty, lying, bigoted leader?’

Griffin looked like a fat joggers buttock.

‘Warsi effective, but hers isn’t a very nice message’

Any other edition and we’d be ripping into her homophobia.

“in my opinion, the biggest loser today was the BBC”

With ratings like that? Channel 4 must be kicking themselves they didn’t invite Griffin onto Big Brother to save it. And hey, who cares that every time the BNP are given a platform, there’s a rise in racist attacks? As long as the nation is kept entertained and tunes in for the freak show, it’s worth it!

Griffin could have been wiped out with one question:

“What do the panel think of the policy of quantitative easing?”

Griffin: “Erm, if we had Islamic banking we wouldn’t need it. errr”

“Griffin looked like a fat joggers buttock.” Heh!

But c’mon, that “BNP Uncle Fester after a few more pints and pies” guy was pretty special…the expression on his face, where he clearly felt as if he’d made a devastating, unanswerable argument was brilliant

🙂

@33 – thanks for your anonymous put down.

My point is that Griffin makes a show of being “victimised”. It is clear that he was victimised; that the whole structure of the show was designed to “expose” the BNP as fascists, racists, etc.

All of which, the comfortable liberal elite already knows. Everyone posting here knows that the BNP are comical would-be Nazis; that their policies have no integrity; that the foundation of their being is illogical and spiteful nonsense.

Indeed, most people watching the show probably hold, or held, similar views.

I think most people are also aware that the popularity of the BNP has more to do with other issues – most of which were utterly ignored by Dimbleby and his comfortably establishment panel, whilst Bonnie Greer was hopelessly off-message.

So what is really achieved by presenting a pantomime puppet show on QT?

Certainly, none of the big issues that encourage people to vote BNP were addressed. The put downs and the booing was all quite childish.

A liberal wank-fest that undoubtedly means liberals can feel self-righteous tomorrow morning, through the weekend, but how many “white working class” voters in Griffin’s natural constituency will have been tempted towards Labour, the Lib Dems or the Tories on that performance?

Jack Straw, incidentally, was awful after the first five minutes.

that the whole structure of the show was designed to “expose” the BNP as fascists, racists, etc.

Surely that’s what you do when you do have a fascist/racist party there. Or were you anxious to hear his views on the postal strike?

I’d say he got badly tripped up on the holocaust, the KKK, and some babble about the ice-age. That crazy talk’s not going to chime well with his target market of the discontented white working class.

40. Leonard Hatred

I think there’s definitely a market for a show in which Bonnie Greer sasses lunatics. Other than that, it wasn’t particularly interesting. Tremendously funny, however.

“Surely that’s what you do when you do have a fascist/racist party there.”

I don’t recall Respect being exposed as communists/far left extremists when they were last on.

“Or were you anxious to hear his views on the postal strike?”

Asking Griffin his opinion on issues such as the economy (which one girl in the audience tried to) would have shown him up to be an ignoramous. His support is based on saying well-rehearsed statements about how the BNP are standing up for British identity against an imposed multiculturalism etc. Get him to talk about other issues and it would wrong-foot him. What’s the BNP’s policy to deal with the recession? How would the BNP deal with the Royal Mail? They may have some general policies in their manifesto but how would they deal with specific contemporary issues? Have they thought it out? Probably not.

I don’t recall Respect being exposed as communists/far left extremists when they were last on.

Oh I do like a bit of whataboutery.

They may have some general policies in their manifesto but how would they deal with specific contemporary issues?

It’s remarkably easy to spout populist nonsense if you’re never going to get into power.

Ok, I was watching Amon Amarth this evening so unable to watch QT. What did I miss?

43 – thank you!

That’s exactly what I mean.

41 – “I’d say he got badly tripped up on the holocaust, the KKK, and some babble about the ice-age. That crazy talk’s not going to chime well with his target market of the discontented white working class.”

What the fuck does the average BNP voter care about the various competing definitions of ethnicity, whether or not we all came from Africa, what Griffin did or didn’t say on a podium with some KKK lunatic or whether the Holocaust actually happened?

It was total bollox, only relevant to the people who wouldn’t dream of voting BNP in a million years… So what did it achieve?

40 – I seem to remember that you were calling for an “emotional”, “populist” response to the BNP – rather than dealing sensibly with the (often legitimate) concerns of Griffin’s constituency. Such as being shafted by successive governments as an unfortunate consequence of the unrestricted freedom of capital to fuck people over.

Do you really think that such a charade of a show spoke to any BNP voter? Seriously?

Do you really think that such a charade of a show spoke to any BNP voter? Seriously?

probably not. But then I heard a BNP voter on Five Live said he supported the BNP because they were proud of being British and Christian and they ensured people like him were not persecuted for being British and Christian.
Now, I’d love to hear how white Christians are being persecuted and what could be done about it. And also, I’m glad that some of the other parties didn’t go as far as embracing his views – that’s what differentiates them.

Or would you prefer they all sounded like the BNP?

@Jay

I’m not sure if you are labelling me part of the “liberal elite”, but its quite hard to go around acting all liberal and elite when you work in a call centre, but what ever.

QT won’t tempt many people away from the BNP, decent policies will, but it has made a once moderately presentable leader (well… versus Tyndal) look like an arse, that’s damaging.

You think BNP voters are going to be put off by the fact Griffin isn’t very knowledgable about the economy? It hasn’t slowed down Boy George’s career (not comparing him to Griffin, that would be seriously below the belt, Osborne’s just not that good at economics and that).

You will never change the mind of all BNP voters in one hour. They did a good job of turning the vast majority off him by humiliating him. The work you want is best done on the doorstep, and that’s where organisations like UAF come in. They knock doors and present arguments that just wouldn’t work in a QT format.

As to anonymous, I’ll leave it to the US Supreme court to defend me:

“…anonymous pamphleteering is not a pernicious, fraudulent practice, but an honorable tradition of advocacy and of dissent. Anonymity is a shield from the tyranny of the majority.”

Jay @39 I couldn’t have said it better myself. Spot-on.

What the fuck does the average BNP voter care about the various competing definitions of ethnicity, whether or not we all came from Africa, what Griffin did or didn’t say on a podium with some KKK lunatic or whether the Holocaust actually happened?

The point is that he’s aiming to reach beyond the BNP stereotype, to a constituency of people who are not actually knuckle-dragging fascists. Those people might be pissed off with mainstream politics, and want to register a protest vote. But they won’t not to vote for an outright nazi party – Griffin’s aim is to convince them that that’s not what they’re doing.

So, I’d say that confronting him with his history of swastikas and white hoods is going to harm rather than help his cause.

Anyway, I really don’t know what you’re so furious about. Given that the BBC was apparently obliged to have him on, what do you think should have happened in order to prevent the show being a “liberal wank-fest”? (I notice “liberal” here includes the conservative party.) I’d have thought the other panellists (and audience) showing a united front, and tearing the vile fucker apart, is about the best that could be hoped for.

It’s a double win.

Both Griffin and the “hell will be unleashed” crowd proven idiots.

Win-win.

wheres my post?

Oh, and bonus win – Straw also terrible.

47 – “Or would you prefer they all sounded like the BNP?”

Clearly not.
Please don’t tar me with a fascist brush; it is most unpleasant.

48 – “You will never change the mind of all BNP voters in one hour. They did a good job of turning the vast majority off him by humiliating him.”

I don’t even think they have achieved that…
(Anonymous: ‘Having no distinctive character.’)

49 – thank you. 🙂

50 – “The point is that he’s aiming to reach beyond the BNP stereotype, to a constituency of people who are not actually knuckle-dragging fascists. Those people might be pissed off with mainstream politics, and want to register a protest vote.”

Precisely. There are clear, often (internally) logical reasons – despite Sunny’s assertions to the contrary – for supporting the BNP. Mostly, this can be attributed to the failure of the establishment to engage with the real issues that affect people’s lives in troubled constituencies.

Guess what?

Last night, the three establishment figures representing the main political parties did nothing to engage anyone other than fellow establishment figures.

From the LibCon ‘newswire’ this morning: Nick Griffin’s thoughts as communicated to his party members:

“… this wasn’t a proper Question Time at all. The usual format was done away with for the first time in 30 years as the BBC over-compensated for allowing us on by setting things up for a televised lynching.

There was nothing about current affairs at all; no postal strike, nothing about the announcement that Tony Blair is about to be appointed EU President, nothing about the continued slaughter of young British soldiers in Afghanistan, nothing about the latest stages of the banking crisis and the scandal of the Government propping up corrupt banks while imposing savage cuts on essential services.”

Much as it (truly) pains me to say it, he has a point.

The pantomime style of politics usually played out at PMQs ultimately plays into Griffin’s hands.

From BBC ‘Have Your Say’:

“Absolutely pointless, none of the issues affecting the British public were addressed.”

“The mainstream parties continue to ignore the issues and the BNP gets stronger. Well done.”

“The BNP’s underlying stupidity & duplicity was there for all to see, but I was very disappointed that the debate on the underlying social issues that have helped create support for them didn’t really happen.”

“Questions were specifically staged in a way to make Griffin look stupid (which he is) and I don’t think the programme has done the anti BNP factions any good at all.”

“People can see through the staged aspects of the programme and I am afraid it has probably boosted the BNP’s standing if anything!”

“QT was a shambles and any overseas viewer will be wondering about the BBC and its values…”

“What a farce. Where was the discussions about policies relating to the man in the street? NHS, crime, post office strikes, spending cuts.”

“This was not the normal agenda of QT, it was a personal lynching by the LW PC brigade aimed at Mr Griffin personally.”

“As an opportunity to revile and ridicule Griffin by the panel and seemingly biased audience, it was a success. To address the important issues that have led to the rise of his extreme politics, it was a total failure. No wonder the British public feel they are disenfranchised.”

“This wasn’t Question Time, this was ‘bash the BNP in an orchestrated ambush time’. A missed opportunity to discuss important matters and policy for the various parties.”

I absolutely detest the BNP. I am deeply saddened, and sickened, that they represent my constituency (North West) in the European Parliament. I would love to see them smashed into oblivion.

But last night was not the way to do it.

@50 Spot on. This won’t have made the irreconcilably racist voter think again, but it will have put paid to the ridiculous idea that the BNP could break into the mainstream.

As for those who vote BNP without being racist (and yes, sadly, they do exist; I was born in Dagenham, there’s hundreds of the buggers over there…) – sadly I don’t think their disaffection can ever be tackled through political theatre like this. That requires actual policy, particularly housing policy, which none of the mainstream parties seem interested in.

So what you’re saying is that they should have done a business as usual edition of the show, and discussed the post office, the economy, etc., and allowed Griffin to chip in same as any other panellist, not be put on the spot, and not mention the fact that he’s holocaust-denying scientific racist because that would be ‘lynching’ him.

…and that’s the way to smash the BNP.

(Comment 56 is aimed at Jay, not at Jonn.)

@56 – I’m not sure.
But I don’t know whether the BBC should be employed to “smash the BNP”.
Even Humphries this morning was a bit iffy about how the format had been twisted into the “Get Griffin Show”.

Of course the “liberal wankers” will have had their prejudice confirmed.
There was no danger of any other outcome.
Will BNP supporters / potential supporters have changed their minds?
Will they even have been watching??

Will BNP supporters / potential supporters have changed their minds?
Will they even have been watching??

Quite possibly not. I’m not saying we should expect one TV show to achieve much. All told it’ll probably make little difference.

All I am saying is that if the BBC had to have him on, I reckon that last night’s was about the best outcome we could expect. And I’m taking issue with Jay, who seems to object to the way everyone was so mean to him, and like kept pointing out what horrible nazi he is.

There may be a time and a place for enganging with the very realk concerns of the white working classes, but when you’re sat next to a fascist who’s desperately trying to use this as his big moment to convince everyone that just he’s just an ordinary decent bloke, then that isn’t it.

So damn straight it turned into the ‘Get Griffin Show’. If you were on a TV show with a holocaust denier, what would you do, ignore it, and witter on about the post office instead? No – there was a strong moral imperative on the other panellists to confront and expose him, and they pretty much stepped up.

59 – I think there’s a problem, however, in inviting Griffin onto a political programme and then utterly changing the format of that programme. If the BBC didn’t want Griffin to be on a political panel show, where the audience ask questions of all the panellists, then they shouldn’t have invited him on one. Changing the rules to make it easier to attack Griffin does make it look as though he was ganged up on. And, while it’s a good thing that he was picked up on his snivelling inarticulate racism, I’m not sure that this was the best way to do it.

To put it another way: the BNP’s major selling point is that there are an anti-establishment party – ‘no-one likes us, we don’t care’. Having him on a panel show where the representatives of the three establishment parties, plus the chairman, devote the entire programme to saying what a horrible, nasty, unacceptable party the BNP is doesn’t seem to me to be a good way of combating this.

If you were on a TV show with a holocaust denier, what would you do, ignore it

I would if I were on Ready Steady Cook 🙂

Wow – I love how our favourite right-handwringers have turned things around so it’s somehow the BBC’s fault that Griffin made an ass of himself. Good work, fellas – this piece of message engineering only took you, what, eight hours this time?

Oh dear Neil – if you are serious about opposing the BNP, rather than just feeling good about yourself, it might be worth thinking about whether the twisting of the normal format of QT into an attack-fest, however justified those attacks might be, is effective or counterproductive.

I’m not sure.

62 – Well, we could all introduce our posts with a ritual denunciation of the BNP and all its works, but if all posts read: ‘I don’t like the BNP, they’re horrible’ it would get rather boring don’t you think?

Given the invitation, I think the Beeb and the other panellists did exactly the right thing. It would have seemed a bit silly to have been asking questions about the Post Office with a chap in a brown uniform to your right. It was therefore both inevitable and right that the show went as it did.

But the point I was making was whether this was the right format at all. If the argument is being made that, as leader of a party that has two MEPs, Griffin has a right to representation on Question Time, it strikes me as a bit contradictory then to change the nature of the show specifically to accommodate him. Either he is a party leader like any other, and should participate on the same basis as the others, or he isn’t and he shouldn’t.

Given the invitation, I think the Beeb and the other panellists did exactly the right thing.

That’s my position too.

But I think the “twisting of the normal format” thing is being somewhat overplayed. It’s been a while since I watched QT, but a) when something exceptional happens, it’s usual to dedicate a good chunk of the program to it; b) the questions are usually geared around the panel anyway – if there’s a Green on, they’ll concentrate more on the environment, etc. So when they’ve got a nazi on, it seems appropriate to spend some time talking about the holocaust…

cjcjc, Tim J – congratulations on ignoring my point! Why, you almost got away with it.

Honestly, does the ‘more concerned than thou’ / ‘bash the beeb at every opportunity’ act never get tiring?

66 – Sorry, I thought your point was that ‘right wingers’ (presumably like Jay? which is an odd description to say the least) were criticising the BBC for Griffin looking like a tit. Which I addressed. Was it something else?

67 – I’ll take that as a ‘no’, then.

68 – I’d rather you just answered it. What was your point? That I was ‘bashing the beeb’?

59 – “I’m taking issue with Jay, who seems to object to the way everyone was so mean to him, and like kept pointing out what horrible Nazi he is.”

I have referred to the show several times as farcical, as presenting ‘pantomime’ politics and as a disaster for the integrity (supposed impartiality) of the BBC.

As cjcjc and Tim J have pointed out, the corruption of the “usual format” of the show – saying nothing about the content – may well prove counter-productive.

Of course I don’t remotely object to a fierce interrogation of Griffin’s obnoxious views on race; I do, however, object to the format. And yes, indeed – I would have liked to have seen a more in-depth discussion of the underlying reasons as to why people vote BNP, such as intense feelings of disenfranchisement, economic dislocation, etc.

Clearly this makes me some kind of right-wing lunatic myself, though nothing could be further from the truth.

67 – “… that ‘right wingers’ (presumably like Jay? which is an odd description to say the least) were criticising the BBC…”

Tim J, are you standing up for the integrity of my left-wing views?
How very noble. Ta!

(I wonder what you think of the BNP’s hi-jacking of Churchill… 😉 )

Have the BNP hijacked a nodding dog?

70 – Sorry, it was probably the disorientation induced by being on the same side… With regards to Churchill, I think you can probably guess!

Clearly this makes me some kind of right-wing lunatic myself

I didn’t say that.

I understand the criticism of ‘pantomime politics’, but I also think that – given the invitation – there was no real alternative.

I also think it would have been a catastrophic mistake to attempt an in-depth discussion of the underlying reasons as to why people vote BNP, such as intense feelings of disenfranchisement, economic dislocation, etc..

I also think it would have been a catastrophic mistake to attempt an in-depth discussion of the underlying reasons as to why people vote BNP, such as intense feelings of disenfranchisement, economic dislocation, etc..

On that programme perhaps…though that was one of the questions and Warsi (and Dimbleby) rather destroyed Straw…

Well, every tabloid headline I’ve seen today has stuff like Question Slime, Nazi, KKK, which is a change from Nasty Muslims and Nasty Immigrants. That’s the first time I’ve seen QT for more than 5 minutes so I don’t know how much it deviated from the usual format, but I thought the panellists were asking the questions that I’ve wanted BBC interviewers to ask in the past.

jay, you have a bit of a point, but then i don’t see how the show was ever going to dissuade bnp voters either. They now claim that the show was biased against them… Any other party would die to get their policy message out to 8 million viewers, it says something for how they felt it went that they choose to see it as a negative.

The trouble is that if they’d have food a normal format then the bnp would have looked more, not less, legitimate. They wanted to talk about labour failing the sortiers, and hijacking the lib dem line on the war, that is their latest strategy. Maybe they should have been allowed to.

But seriously, if they can’t sit there and explain core basics of their own essence such as ethnicity, repatriation, and the truth of what they’ve said in the part them how have they earned to be treated like a respectable party?

it might be worth thinking about whether the twisting of the normal format of QT into an attack-fest, however justified those attacks might be, is effective or counterproductive.

no no! cjcjcjcjcjc is right. Nick Griffin is just a normal politician. And frankly, because we don’t want to piss off any sympathetic voters we should all be extra nice to him. How else do you deal with a Holocaust denier on a panel next to you?

I mean, we don’t want to piss of the army of arm-chair activists who are really “pained” by the growth of the BNP and find them “abhorrent” but “understand” why people are drawn to them and support them, and why its not good to be “nasty” towards Griffin.

How else do you deal with a Holocaust denier on a panel next to you?

I don’t know.
How did Livingstone deal with Qaradawi? 😉

But seriously, how the panellists behave is obviously up to them.

But it was quite funny when 45 minutes in Dimbleby said “we don’t want the whole show to be about the BNP” when that was precisely what it had been set up to be!

Of course, for you and the UAF – I know…you think they’re idiots too but in this respect you are alike – it’s all about feeling good about yourself.

Maybe the format helped the anti-BNP cause, maybe it didn’t.
I don’t know.
But it is a legit question, surely?

no no! cjcjcjcjcjc is right. Nick Griffin is just a normal politician. And frankly, because we don’t want to piss off any sympathetic voters we should all be extra nice to him. How else do you deal with a Holocaust denier on a panel next to you?

Querying whether the way in which the QT format was changed was effective in discrediting Griffin or whether it might have been slightly counter-productive is not being nice to him. You really aren’t the only person who finds the BNP objectionable Sunny, and people who disagree with the best method of combating them aren’t therefore sympathetic to them.

Waving placards saying ‘Smash the BNP’ might be an excellent way of relieving people’s feelings, and giving them a nice warm glow that they are ‘doing something’ to stop the rise of the BNP. But it doesn’t seem to be very effective.

“Waving placards saying ‘Smash the BNP’ might be an excellent way of relieving people’s feelings, and giving them a nice warm glow that they are ‘doing something’ to stop the rise of the BNP. But it doesn’t seem to be very effective.”

If we’re going to focus on effectiveness then yes the effectiveness of demonstrations can be a moot point. But I don’t think there’s any doubt that giving the BNP a platform has been effective in giving them massive publicity and any publicity for the BNP is good publicity. The demonstrators didn’t cause this problem and to target them for insult is to miss the point.

77 – I’d rather make an effort to “understand” the reasons why people are drawn to the BNP, than arrogantly regard Griffin’s entire constituency as knuckle-dragging scum, unworthy and incapable of the effort of rational debate and swayed only by “emotional”, “populist” rhetoric.

But I suppose only serious “activists” such as yourself are remotely qualified to hold an opinion.

‘The new divide in British politics: Us and Him’

http://www.spiked-online.com/index.php/site/article/7611/

Highly recommended.

have people checked political betting? They’ve got a fairly good analysis of what makes a bnp voter. I think some could do with reading it.

any publicity is good publicity… Tell that to cameron who was the only leader to see his party take a poll slump after his speech. Tell it to mandelson who’s public interjections pretty much caused the strike to in ahead.

Politics isn’t the same as celebrity gossip in heat magazine, it is not just about ‘drawing power’. There are positive and negative feelings reinforced with each political appearance, and a bad appearance by the bnp won’t be good for them unless people felt it was because of those like straw being bullies. In which case the problem won’t be the bnp’s appearance, it’ll be the way the other parties handled it.


Reactions: Twitter, blogs
  1. Liberal Conspiracy

    Article:: Live chat – #BBCQT tonight http://bit.ly/175QnQ

  2. sunny hundal

    Live discussion of BBCQT launched on Libcon http://bit.ly/2ZIr2f #BBCQT

  3. Leon Green

    RT @pickledpolitics Live discussion of BBCQT launched on Libcon http://bit.ly/2ZIr2f #BBCQT

  4. Tim Ireland

    RT @pickledpolitics Live discussion of BBCQT launched on Libcon http://bit.ly/2ZIr2f #BBCQT

  5. Leon Green

    I'm over here tonight for the #bbcqt fascist edition: Liberal Conspiracy – Question Time: http://tinyurl.com/yjukb43

  6. Political Scrapbook

    Live #bbcqt webchat on Liberal Conspiracy open for business –> http://is.gd/4woK7

  7. MARIA AHMED

    RT @libcon Live chat – #BBCQT tonight http://bit.ly/47WEDa

  8. CathElliott

    Just spotted that I'm taking part in the live chat/twitter on LibCon. Hope Sunny realises I'm going to get sweary… – http://bit.ly/2ZIr2f

  9. Chris Paul

    RT @bloggerheads RT @pickledpolitics Live discussion of BBCQT launched on Libcon http://bit.ly/2ZIr2f #BBCQT

  10. Political Scrapbook

    Liberal Conspiracy #bbcqt webchat here –> http://is.gd/4woK7 and Tory Bear one here –> http://is.gd/4wr40

  11. Liberal Conspiracy

    Article:: Live chat – #BBCQT tonight http://bit.ly/175QnQ

  12. sunny hundal

    Live discussion of BBCQT launched on Libcon http://bit.ly/2ZIr2f #BBCQT

  13. Tweets that mention Liberal Conspiracy » Live chat – #BBCQT tonight -- Topsy.com

    […] This post was mentioned on Twitter by sunny hundal, Liberal Conspiracy. Liberal Conspiracy said: Article:: Live chat – #BBCQT tonight http://bit.ly/175QnQ […]

  14. Leon Green

    RT @pickledpolitics Live discussion of BBCQT launched on Libcon http://bit.ly/2ZIr2f #BBCQT

  15. Tim Ireland

    RT @pickledpolitics Live discussion of BBCQT launched on Libcon http://bit.ly/2ZIr2f #BBCQT

  16. Political Scrapbook

    Live #bbcqt webchat on Liberal Conspiracy open for business –> http://is.gd/4woK7

  17. MARIA AHMED

    RT @libcon Live chat – #BBCQT tonight http://bit.ly/47WEDa

  18. CathElliott

    Just spotted that I'm taking part in the live chat/twitter on LibCon. Hope Sunny realises I'm going to get sweary… – http://bit.ly/2ZIr2f

  19. Chris Paul

    RT @bloggerheads RT @pickledpolitics Live discussion of BBCQT launched on Libcon http://bit.ly/2ZIr2f #BBCQT

  20. Left Outside

    Give ‘em enough rope…

    The BNP leader Nick Griffin gave a ridiculous performance on Question Time, it seems too soon to really take stock of what happened, but it looked like car crash from where I was watching.
    Later on This Week, Diane Abbott mentioned that it may not look…





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