Comments on: How to make excuses for your nasty friends http://liberalconspiracy.org/2009/10/12/how-to-make-excuses-for-your-nasty-friends/ Left-wing news, opinion and activism Sun, 12 Feb 2012 12:11:29 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3 By: Peter Hain’s Bad Idea « Bad Conscience http://liberalconspiracy.org/2009/10/12/how-to-make-excuses-for-your-nasty-friends/#comment-69811 Peter Hain’s Bad Idea « Bad Conscience Mon, 19 Oct 2009 08:41:59 +0000 http://www.liberalconspiracy.org/?p=8243#comment-69811 [...] other news, it looks like we need to add Step 6 to the dummies’ guide to making excuses for your nasty friends: editing wikipedia to try and cover-up about their horrible neo-nazi pasts, whilst painting your [...] [...] other news, it looks like we need to add Step 6 to the dummies’ guide to making excuses for your nasty friends: editing wikipedia to try and cover-up about their horrible neo-nazi pasts, whilst painting your [...]

]]> By: marie-odile http://liberalconspiracy.org/2009/10/12/how-to-make-excuses-for-your-nasty-friends/#comment-68977 marie-odile Tue, 13 Oct 2009 20:58:32 +0000 http://www.liberalconspiracy.org/?p=8243#comment-68977 .. oh and thats only on a theoretical level, without even considering the people they allied themselves with... .. oh and thats only on a theoretical level, without even considering the people they allied themselves with…

]]> By: marie-odile http://liberalconspiracy.org/2009/10/12/how-to-make-excuses-for-your-nasty-friends/#comment-68976 marie-odile Tue, 13 Oct 2009 20:57:03 +0000 http://www.liberalconspiracy.org/?p=8243#comment-68976 I still don't think that makes the rest of Europe's political culture not 'amenable' to individual liberty, or more "prone" to facism. On another (but related) note - I heard the Tories justified the move from EPP by saying this would give them (and therefore britain) more power in the European Parliament? How was this justified? Although it *might* have given them more power within the european party itself, surely they lost sway by joining one of the less influential parties? (in terms of speaking time, voting weight (assuming the party sometimes vaguely votes as a whole) I still don’t think that makes the rest of Europe’s political culture not ‘amenable’ to individual liberty, or more “prone” to facism.
On another (but related) note – I heard the Tories justified the move from EPP by saying this would give them (and therefore britain) more power in the European Parliament? How was this justified? Although it *might* have given them more power within the european party itself, surely they lost sway by joining one of the less influential parties? (in terms of speaking time, voting weight (assuming the party sometimes vaguely votes as a whole)

]]> By: Tim Worstall http://liberalconspiracy.org/2009/10/12/how-to-make-excuses-for-your-nasty-friends/#comment-68958 Tim Worstall Tue, 13 Oct 2009 19:39:13 +0000 http://www.liberalconspiracy.org/?p=8243#comment-68958 "and not having the same love of individual liberty or freedom. (Or am I completely missing the point and simply a humourless french lefty?..." I am certainly one who argues (shouts!) that the method by which such liberty is protected in a Common Law system as against a Roman Law system is different, yes. The Common Law system insists that the State is one of the major enemies of liberty and freedom....other systems, not so much. “and not having the same love of individual liberty or freedom. (Or am I completely missing the point and simply a humourless french lefty?…”

I am certainly one who argues (shouts!) that the method by which such liberty is protected in a Common Law system as against a Roman Law system is different, yes.

The Common Law system insists that the State is one of the major enemies of liberty and freedom….other systems, not so much.

]]> By: Rant: how can support for the IRA be miscalculation? « Freethinking Economist http://liberalconspiracy.org/2009/10/12/how-to-make-excuses-for-your-nasty-friends/#comment-68955 Rant: how can support for the IRA be miscalculation? « Freethinking Economist Tue, 13 Oct 2009 19:20:39 +0000 http://www.liberalconspiracy.org/?p=8243#comment-68955 [...] Paul has written a post called “How to make excuses for your nasty friends“.  There should be another one for half the Left: “How to stay in the same business [...] [...] Paul has written a post called “How to make excuses for your nasty friends“.  There should be another one for half the Left: “How to stay in the same business [...]

]]> By: marie-odile http://liberalconspiracy.org/2009/10/12/how-to-make-excuses-for-your-nasty-friends/#comment-68951 marie-odile Tue, 13 Oct 2009 18:56:46 +0000 http://www.liberalconspiracy.org/?p=8243#comment-68951 @17 -Sounds a bit like you're accusing us "other" europeans of being more facist than the Brits, and not having the same love of individual liberty or freedom. (Or am I completely missing the point and simply a humourless french lefty? apols if so). the fact that far right political parties are more prominent also has a substantial amount to do with electoral systems. the UK (and France, so fair enough, that's an exception what with the FN and all) is one of the only systems to be purely majoritarian, and small parties (inc. far right ones) are far more likely to have electoral success (and prominence) in a system which is PR or mixed PR. (n.b I am referring to general elections and political systems as a whole rather than EP elections) @17 -Sounds a bit like you’re accusing us “other” europeans of being more facist than the Brits, and not having the same love of individual liberty or freedom. (Or am I completely missing the point and simply a humourless french lefty? apols if so).
the fact that far right political parties are more prominent also has a substantial amount to do with electoral systems. the UK (and France, so fair enough, that’s an exception what with the FN and all) is one of the only systems to be purely majoritarian, and small parties (inc. far right ones) are far more likely to have electoral success (and prominence) in a system which is PR or mixed PR. (n.b I am referring to general elections and political systems as a whole rather than EP elections)

]]> By: Tim Worstall http://liberalconspiracy.org/2009/10/12/how-to-make-excuses-for-your-nasty-friends/#comment-68905 Tim Worstall Tue, 13 Oct 2009 15:00:19 +0000 http://www.liberalconspiracy.org/?p=8243#comment-68905 Well, to immediately fall foul of point 1. How many of the MEPs in the group which Labour belong to were in fact functionaries in Communist Governments pre 1989? No, I don't know either but any of Ceascescu's henchmen in there? Jaruzelski's? Any of those East Germans who werre part of a system that would shoot people just for trying to leave? Would be interesting to know I'm sure...... Well, to immediately fall foul of point 1. How many of the MEPs in the group which Labour belong to were in fact functionaries in Communist Governments pre 1989?

No, I don’t know either but any of Ceascescu’s henchmen in there? Jaruzelski’s? Any of those East Germans who werre part of a system that would shoot people just for trying to leave?

Would be interesting to know I’m sure……

]]> By: Nick http://liberalconspiracy.org/2009/10/12/how-to-make-excuses-for-your-nasty-friends/#comment-68831 Nick Tue, 13 Oct 2009 08:45:44 +0000 http://www.liberalconspiracy.org/?p=8243#comment-68831 The troubling thing is that fascism (and its post/quasi variants) simply enjoys a longer half-life in Europe than in the UK and elsewhere. Perhaps that is a good reason to keep at arms length from its institutions, at least until a political culture more amenable to individual liberty has become more widespread out there. The troubling thing is that fascism (and its post/quasi variants) simply enjoys a longer half-life in Europe than in the UK and elsewhere. Perhaps that is a good reason to keep at arms length from its institutions, at least until a political culture more amenable to individual liberty has become more widespread out there.

]]> By: How To http://liberalconspiracy.org/2009/10/12/how-to-make-excuses-for-your-nasty-friends/#comment-78884 How To Tue, 13 Oct 2009 05:44:44 +0000 http://www.liberalconspiracy.org/?p=8243#comment-78884 <span class="topsy_trackback_comment"><span class="topsy_twitter_username"><span class="topsy_trackback_content">#howto Liberal Conspiracy » How to make excuses for your nasty friends http://bit.ly/14Kgjo #how</span></span> #howto Liberal Conspiracy » How to make excuses for your nasty friends http://bit.ly/14Kgjo #how

]]> By: Hammer & Bicycle http://liberalconspiracy.org/2009/10/12/how-to-make-excuses-for-your-nasty-friends/#comment-78883 Hammer & Bicycle Tue, 13 Oct 2009 05:30:10 +0000 http://www.liberalconspiracy.org/?p=8243#comment-78883 <span class="topsy_trackback_comment"><span class="topsy_twitter_username"><span class="topsy_trackback_content">RT @libcon Liberal Conspiracy » How to make excuses for your nasty friends http://bit.ly/NHBUy</span></span> RT @libcon Liberal Conspiracy » How to make excuses for your nasty friends http://bit.ly/NHBUy

]]> By: How To http://liberalconspiracy.org/2009/10/12/how-to-make-excuses-for-your-nasty-friends/#comment-76036 How To Mon, 12 Oct 2009 22:44:44 +0000 http://www.liberalconspiracy.org/?p=8243#comment-76036 <span class="topsy_trackback_comment"><span class="topsy_twitter_username"><span class="topsy_trackback_content">#howto Liberal Conspiracy » How to make excuses for your nasty friends http://bit.ly/14Kgjo #how</span> <div class="topsy_trackback_links">[<a href="http://twitter.com/howto4you/status/4828684622">Original tweet</a>]</div></span> #howto Liberal Conspiracy » How to make excuses for your nasty friends http://bit.ly/14Kgjo #how

[Original tweet]

]]> By: Tim J http://liberalconspiracy.org/2009/10/12/how-to-make-excuses-for-your-nasty-friends/#comment-68815 Tim J Mon, 12 Oct 2009 22:07:19 +0000 http://www.liberalconspiracy.org/?p=8243#comment-68815 10 - I suspect he's referring to the Alleanza Nationale, which was routinely described as neo-fascist or post-fascist - and was held up ads an awful warning of what awaited the Tories if they left the EPP. And then they joined the EPP. PiS do indeed support the Lisbon Treaty. But, unlike the EPP, they don't insist that every party in the grouping agrees with them. As Thersites says above, the issue is British political exceptionalism. If it is impossible to find a political party on mainland Europe that is in favour of free trade and an EU based on sovereign states rather than ever closer union, what does that say about British compatibility with Europe, given that that position was overwhelmingly the most popular at the last European elections? On a broader grubby politics point, I can see why labour and the left are trying to push this as an issue, but I really honestly doubt that it will give you the traction you think it will. And I am shocked, shocked, that there appears to be no mention here of the Prime Minister being compelled to repay his I'll-gotten expenses... 10 – I suspect he’s referring to the Alleanza Nationale, which was routinely described as neo-fascist or post-fascist – and was held up ads an awful warning of what awaited the Tories if they left the EPP. And then they joined the EPP.

PiS do indeed support the Lisbon Treaty. But, unlike the EPP, they don’t insist that every party in the grouping agrees with them.

As Thersites says above, the issue is British political exceptionalism. If it is impossible to find a political party on mainland Europe that is in favour of free trade and an EU based on sovereign states rather than ever closer union, what does that say about British compatibility with Europe, given that that position was overwhelmingly the most popular at the last European elections?

On a broader grubby politics point, I can see why labour and the left are trying to push this as an issue, but I really honestly doubt that it will give you the traction you think it will. And I am shocked, shocked, that there appears to be no mention here of the Prime Minister being compelled to repay his I’ll-gotten expenses…

]]> By: ad http://liberalconspiracy.org/2009/10/12/how-to-make-excuses-for-your-nasty-friends/#comment-68813 ad Mon, 12 Oct 2009 21:40:44 +0000 http://www.liberalconspiracy.org/?p=8243#comment-68813 No, if the Guardian makes a mistake, it just requires one person to make a mistake, and perhaps one or two people to fail to catch it. I just thought it was an interesting mistake to have made, in the eyes of people who like jumping on mistakes. If the data had been cut and pasted from the Nobel website, the names should not have been missing. If someone cut something off by accident, the names cut off should not have been widely seperated. The obvious conclusion is that someone somewhere made an exception for the Israeli names, and that this person was trusted by the Guardian. At any event, if the Jewish Chronicle does not believe Kaminski to be an anti-semite, I am certainly not going to trust the judgement of a group of political partisans who desperately want him to be. Why should I? No, if the Guardian makes a mistake, it just requires one person to make a mistake, and perhaps one or two people to fail to catch it. I just thought it was an interesting mistake to have made, in the eyes of people who like jumping on mistakes.

If the data had been cut and pasted from the Nobel website, the names should not have been missing. If someone cut something off by accident, the names cut off should not have been widely seperated.

The obvious conclusion is that someone somewhere made an exception for the Israeli names, and that this person was trusted by the Guardian.

At any event, if the Jewish Chronicle does not believe Kaminski to be an anti-semite, I am certainly not going to trust the judgement of a group of political partisans who desperately want him to be. Why should I?

]]> By: Sunny H http://liberalconspiracy.org/2009/10/12/how-to-make-excuses-for-your-nasty-friends/#comment-68808 Sunny H Mon, 12 Oct 2009 20:37:59 +0000 http://www.liberalconspiracy.org/?p=8243#comment-68808 ad - ahhh yes, that old trick - if the Guardian makes a mistake it must be a conspiracy! <a href="http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/6177" rel="nofollow">What a load of crock</a> ad – ahhh yes, that old trick – if the Guardian makes a mistake it must be a conspiracy! What a load of crock

]]> By: Paul Sagar http://liberalconspiracy.org/2009/10/12/how-to-make-excuses-for-your-nasty-friends/#comment-68801 Paul Sagar Mon, 12 Oct 2009 19:28:58 +0000 http://www.liberalconspiracy.org/?p=8243#comment-68801 Meant 7 and 8 Meant 7 and 8

]]> By: Paul Sagar http://liberalconspiracy.org/2009/10/12/how-to-make-excuses-for-your-nasty-friends/#comment-68800 Paul Sagar Mon, 12 Oct 2009 19:26:34 +0000 http://www.liberalconspiracy.org/?p=8243#comment-68800 @7 and 9 glad to see you putting step 3 into practice, and missing the point rather spectacularly. @7 and 9

glad to see you putting step 3 into practice, and missing the point rather spectacularly.

]]> By: ad http://liberalconspiracy.org/2009/10/12/how-to-make-excuses-for-your-nasty-friends/#comment-68792 ad Mon, 12 Oct 2009 18:45:25 +0000 http://www.liberalconspiracy.org/?p=8243#comment-68792 You forgot step 6: Point out that the editor of the Jewish Chronicle, a man who by his own account has alway voted Labour, has wriiten an article called "Kaminski is not an antisemite: he's a friend to Jews" http://www.thejc.com/blogpost/kaminski-not-antisemite-hes-a-friend-jews-guardian Incidently, if anti-Semitism is such a big deal to you, you may be interested to hear that when the Guardian recently published a list of everyone who has won the Noble Peace Prize, thay missed off three names. All were Israelis. http://www.thejc.com/blogpost/keep-jews-out You forgot step 6: Point out that the editor of the Jewish Chronicle, a man who by his own account has alway voted Labour, has wriiten an article called “Kaminski is not an antisemite: he’s a friend to Jews”

http://www.thejc.com/blogpost/kaminski-not-antisemite-hes-a-friend-jews-guardian

Incidently, if anti-Semitism is such a big deal to you, you may be interested to hear that when the Guardian recently published a list of everyone who has won the Noble Peace Prize, thay missed off three names. All were Israelis.

http://www.thejc.com/blogpost/keep-jews-out

]]> By: john b http://liberalconspiracy.org/2009/10/12/how-to-make-excuses-for-your-nasty-friends/#comment-68762 john b Mon, 12 Oct 2009 16:09:39 +0000 http://www.liberalconspiracy.org/?p=8243#comment-68762 I'm no fan of Berlusconi, but suggesting that PdL is a fascist party is going a bit far, no? I’m no fan of Berlusconi, but suggesting that PdL is a fascist party is going a bit far, no?

]]> By: James http://liberalconspiracy.org/2009/10/12/how-to-make-excuses-for-your-nasty-friends/#comment-68760 James Mon, 12 Oct 2009 15:50:38 +0000 http://www.liberalconspiracy.org/?p=8243#comment-68760 The Italian ones. The Italian ones.

]]> By: john b http://liberalconspiracy.org/2009/10/12/how-to-make-excuses-for-your-nasty-friends/#comment-68759 john b Mon, 12 Oct 2009 15:41:07 +0000 http://www.liberalconspiracy.org/?p=8243#comment-68759 Which neo-fascists in the EPP? Which neo-fascists in the EPP?

]]> By: James http://liberalconspiracy.org/2009/10/12/how-to-make-excuses-for-your-nasty-friends/#comment-68751 James Mon, 12 Oct 2009 14:49:59 +0000 http://www.liberalconspiracy.org/?p=8243#comment-68751 @3: That is because this "blog" is a piece of whatabouterry. Nobody was complaining when the Tories were in league with neo-fascists in the EPP. So why the fuss now? These smears have been debunked a million times already anyway, @3: That is because this “blog” is a piece of whatabouterry. Nobody was complaining when the Tories were in league with neo-fascists in the EPP. So why the fuss now?

These smears have been debunked a million times already anyway,

]]> By: Tweets that mention Liberal Conspiracy » How to make excuses for your nasty friends -- Topsy.com http://liberalconspiracy.org/2009/10/12/how-to-make-excuses-for-your-nasty-friends/#comment-68734 Tweets that mention Liberal Conspiracy » How to make excuses for your nasty friends -- Topsy.com Mon, 12 Oct 2009 13:41:59 +0000 http://www.liberalconspiracy.org/?p=8243#comment-68734 [...] This post was mentioned on Twitter by Mark Taylor and StopTheRight. StopTheRight said: RT @libcon Article:: How to make excuses for your nasty friends http://bit.ly/2GoVlP [...] [...] This post was mentioned on Twitter by Mark Taylor and StopTheRight. StopTheRight said: RT @libcon Article:: How to make excuses for your nasty friends http://bit.ly/2GoVlP [...]

]]> By: Mark Taylor http://liberalconspiracy.org/2009/10/12/how-to-make-excuses-for-your-nasty-friends/#comment-78885 Mark Taylor Mon, 12 Oct 2009 13:41:11 +0000 http://www.liberalconspiracy.org/?p=8243#comment-78885 <span class="topsy_trackback_comment"><span class="topsy_twitter_username"><span class="topsy_trackback_content">Shared item: How to make excuses for your nasty friends: So, you’ve gone and formed a new grouping .. http://tinyurl.com/yzmd9w9</span></span> Shared item: How to make excuses for your nasty friends: So, you’ve gone and formed a new grouping .. http://tinyurl.com/yzmd9w9

]]> By: Paul Sagar http://liberalconspiracy.org/2009/10/12/how-to-make-excuses-for-your-nasty-friends/#comment-68733 Paul Sagar Mon, 12 Oct 2009 13:35:38 +0000 http://www.liberalconspiracy.org/?p=8243#comment-68733 Thersites, No, I am pointing out that your new friend Mr Kaminski is in favour of the Lisbon Treaty. Which makes the ECR grouping, erm, rather harder to justify. (Also, maybe have a think about your nom-de-plume: I suspect you were going for the "rank and file soldier" angle. But let's not forget that Thersites was described by Homer as a common, ugly and insobordinate: Odysseus hits him with a spear, if I remember correctly, for being a cheeky bugger. Lesson in there, perhaps?) Thersites,

No, I am pointing out that your new friend Mr Kaminski is in favour of the Lisbon Treaty. Which makes the ECR grouping, erm, rather harder to justify.

(Also, maybe have a think about your nom-de-plume: I suspect you were going for the “rank and file soldier” angle. But let’s not forget that Thersites was described by Homer as a common, ugly and insobordinate: Odysseus hits him with a spear, if I remember correctly, for being a cheeky bugger. Lesson in there, perhaps?)

]]> By: Thersites http://liberalconspiracy.org/2009/10/12/how-to-make-excuses-for-your-nasty-friends/#comment-68730 Thersites Mon, 12 Oct 2009 13:23:36 +0000 http://www.liberalconspiracy.org/?p=8243#comment-68730 Paul the defence is the exceptionalism of the UK .Nationalism here is not a source of shame as on much of the continent nor is it bound up in the moral catastrophe of Soviet occupied Eastern Europe . It is a source of justifiable pride, as is Parliament and the dislike of unaccountable elites. We do not wish to sacrifice our country to the super statist dreams of the left and this shows the purpose of all the lies over Lisbon was precisely to isolate the views of the British . You might just as well imagine the odd selection of superannuated nutty Communists the British left would be allied with if we joined The USA .You are making an arguments against the EU not against the Latvians. David Milliband is an intelligent if unscrupulous man. He knows the dangers to his dreams inherent in this line of idiotic attack very well .It really shows the desperation of the Labour Party that he feels he has to should attack the very faults of the institution that he is personally responsible for lying about to a Euro Sceptic. Country. This is a core vote strategy and a hostage to fortune . I am disappointed to see the generally thoughtful Sunder Katwala whipping up the partisan mob. I thought his claim was that we all had a place in Europe .If only people that agree with him do , then we must leave . Thersites Paul the defence is the exceptionalism of the UK .Nationalism here is not a source of shame as on much of the continent nor is it bound up in the moral catastrophe of Soviet occupied Eastern Europe . It is a source of justifiable pride, as is Parliament and the dislike of unaccountable elites. We do not wish to sacrifice our country to the super statist dreams of the left and this shows the purpose of all the lies over Lisbon was precisely to isolate the views of the British . You might just as well imagine the odd selection of superannuated nutty Communists the British left would be allied with if we joined The USA .You are making an arguments against the EU not against the Latvians.

David Milliband is an intelligent if unscrupulous man. He knows the dangers to his dreams inherent in this line of idiotic attack very well .It really shows the desperation of the Labour Party that he feels he has to should attack the very faults of the institution that he is personally responsible for lying about to a Euro Sceptic. Country.

This is a core vote strategy and a hostage to fortune . I am disappointed to see the generally thoughtful Sunder Katwala whipping up the partisan mob. I thought his claim was that we all had a place in Europe .If only people that agree with him do , then we must leave .

Thersites

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