Article:: Rupert Murdoch and Fox News: ‘imperialism’ http://bit.ly/4bfe8g

I found the image of Obama as the Joker objectionable. I find this image objectionable as well. You do yourselves no service by imitating the worst of those you revile against.

That is very disturbing indeed but quite why dontmindme has their knickers in such a twist…

Behind the scenes video at 9/12 protest shows Fox News producer coaching crowd http://bit.ly/1BqVyY (via http://bit.ly/157adN)

2. Because I fondly like to believe that sites like this can rise above this sort of thing. I like LC because it can at best be a good debating forum. A place where ‘left’ ideas and views get aired and explored. Unfortunately the story suggests the author is no better than the people who created and propagated the Obama image.

RT @bloggerheads Behind the scenes video 9/12 protest shows Fox News producer coaching crowd http://bit.ly/1BqVyY (via http://bit.ly/157adN)

That’s your reading but don’t confuse your rather blinkered opinions with fact.

On to the point,
yet more evidence of how poisonous the Murdoch empire is to the political debate, no matter which country.
His son’s words from a couple of weeks back sound even more hollow.

erm, just because you disagree with a point of view doesn’t make it poisonous. For a debate you need all sides of the argument and points of view to contribute. If you exclude certain parties because you find their views objectionable you diminish the value of any conclusion. If you seek to censor points of view, then I suggest that you should post on “Illiberal Conspiracy”

One cannot complain about perceived political bias on Fox news when it it fully known who owns it. You can choose to watch it or not as there are plenty of other channels to choose from. If you don’t like the product don’t buy it – There are alternatives people!

If the image of Obama was distasteful then so is this. It matters not who the target is – bad taste is bad taste.

Oh dear, as Claude says the issue is that FAUX NEWS owned by Murdoch have been stirring up anti-Obama sentiment with mis-information; Beau B D’Or inspired by that created a piece of art that mixes those sentiments and that hypocrisy.

Deal with it.

4 & 7 Clearly you do not aspire to the level of debate Mr Tyke and I do.

Where I have I expressed a “blinkered” opinion? In what way am I expressing a partisan view of one kind? I was talking about how good debate is best conducted, not who was right in the debate.

Try reading what is actually written in the post, not what you think is written.

And as to “deal with it”. No I don’t have to deal with it. I have said I dont like it and why, and I stand by that. Just because someone creates ‘art’ with a political message, I do not have to give them or the message any credit. It does not justify itself by its merely by existance.

“there are plenty of other channels to choose from”

Ah, that would explain why, when I wanted to watch the Ashes on TV a few weeks back, I had the dizzying choice of one channel on which to view it.

@7

A fair point, but one that can be directed at Labour who removed it from the list of protected sporting events to be viewed on terrestrial channels 10 years ago or so. Looks like there was a review announced last year (http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2008/sep/26/sportsrights.television). I too wanted to watch the Ashes but, as I refuse to pay for Sky Sports on the grounds that a load of the money goes to Premiershit Football, I settled for the following on the web and watching highlights on weekdays and popping down to the pub at the weekend.

Oh for…

This is aimed at almost everybody who has been doing the Joker-ising of people’s photos:

You cannot rail against socialism or imperialism by using The Joker. The Joker is an anarchist. None of these posters make ANY sense whatsoever. STOP USING THE JOKER – IT MAKES YOU LOOK LIKE AN IDIOT.

“A fair point, but one that can be directed at Labour”

Really? I thought it was the free market that guaranteed competition, not Labour governments…

@11

Indeed.

@12

In this case, once a program is taken off the protected list, the broadcasting rights are up for grabs by the highest bidder in a competitive manner and I have no problem with that per se as it means more money for the sport in question. Not everyone can afford, or is willing to pay for, Sky Sports subscription charges which is why the Protected List exists; so that certain important events are available to everyone. It is open to argument exactly which sports/events they should be.

Remember, back in 1997 and the early years of the Labour regime they were firmly in bed with Murdoch and the Sky machine so I wouldn’t be surprised if a little lobbying went on.

The Sports rights issue is not the same one as the the Fox news issue. If one is in the USA, there are many alternative news media sources to Fox. Everyone knows its editorial bias, they do not hide it. Fox News does not have a monopoly Americans getting TV news.

Mind you, I rather like Sky’s coverages of cricket. The quantity as well as quality. so perhaps I am being ‘bliinkered’

JSlayerUK

Ahh. You miss the subtle nuances of my ground-breaking work of art and the deliberate repetition of an illogical call to arms in an effort to rail against the media monolith that is partly owned by Murdoch.
Several excruciating thoughts assailed my mind when I first saw the Obama Socialism poster and made me think long, hard and oh-so-wisely about a response.

Often, even when we have the time, we don’t look; we are too busy being consumed with all the festering that floats around in our minds: TV, magazines, phones, meetings, dates, times, measures, calculations, events, more times, more TV – image after image, a non-stop barrage of everyday minuscule hell floating on a non-stop train straight into our minds; the loss of nature and our internal faith: contamination of the soul. Everything is totally incongruous but somehow make total sense. I feel like a character from some early Renaissance painting. The faded frescos mingle with neocon gospel and the scarlet sky. Everything has a quasi-religious feeling. I suddenly become very nauseous and tired and very angry.

There are several ways to look like an idiot.
The first is to take things too literally.
The second is to copy and paste some of Tracey Emin’s pseuds-corneresque words and pretend they are your own in a blog comment.
The third is to use caps lock.

@3, Dontmindme:

Remember that the person who created and propagated the Obama image wasn’t some right-wing chap aiming to whip up hatred. It was a decidedly Liberal student, who wasn’t happy about his image (to him, a joke) being paraded by the right.

But either way, it created a whole shtick which Beau tapped into. I love the Murdoch image.

Dontmindme:

“Clearly you do not aspire to the level of debate Mr Tyke and I do.”

HA HA HA! Seriously, that is funny as fuck, thanks for showing me how deluded you are, you are too kind old bean.

I think Beau Bo D’Or says it best, hopefully that erudite comment will put the feeble ramblings of empty minds to rest, in this thread at least…

I love this forum.
May I make a suggestion?
Rather than making comments about the most truthful news source FOX (which is the reason for it’s high popularity), why do you not try to disprove what they say as to what you do not see as a truth?
I was just at the march in DC and other than a handful out of 10′s of thousands, I have never seen more peaceful people….EVER.

There is not hate on the right, we merely expect to remain Americans…we are not Europeans, we do not want to be Europeans.
We do not want your values, or your taxes or your health care.
Obama will fail.

Please start quoting reliable news souces instead of places like
Media matters or the Huff.
Makes you look kind of foolish.

My Comment at 10 should have refered to Comment 9 not 7. Sorry for any confusion.

The Grauniad has editorial bias. Is this wrong?

Colleen:

The idea that FAUX NEWS presents truth has no rub here, mainly because we read books, mainly because its efforts to pervert the healthcare debate are as obvious as your failure to grasp the situation.

FAUX NEWS nonsense has been disproved, often so but it comes down to the fact that arguing with an idiot is a limited experience.

I’m glad you marched, glad it was peaceful, the fact that it was littered with racist signs and signs that are offensive makes you guys look quite bad, the speed with which FAUX NEWS attacked people marching against Bush but is oddly silent on an event it helped to stage speaks volumes.

Please pull your head from your ass.

Obama’s healthcare reform is a good idea, that is not up for debate but what is up for debate is why so many Americans are so thick, so desperate and so blind to reality that they will screama nd shout their way to oblivion…with no sense of irony at all.

As for looking foolish, you’ve done that already, by marching with idiots and by not understanding what Obama is actually proposing.

#20

What an intelligent reply.

Do you live here in the US or are you just another European who makes comment after comment and has no idea what they are talking about?

If you are not an American…wise up!

Just because a sign may say OBAMA on it..it has nothing to do with hate or race or anything of the sort.
That my friend is IGNORANCE.

That is his NAME.
Just as when Bush was president..it was HIS name on the signs.

Gee #20…do you need a job?
There really are many jobs out there,,,perhaps you should take a look.
Perhaps you are angry? Sure sounds like it, your bitterness has taken over your intellect.

Did you know by any chance that Mudock is a Liberal?
He made quite clear who he was voting for long before the election.
He has people who run FOX….he does not control their agenda.

I do hope your life gets better soon..I am serious. Perhaps all the hate will leave you and then when you write it will be intelligent, rather than bias and hate filled. Liberals will always fail due to this hate. They yell..we are for the poor,,,we are for the little guy..but yet…and you can look it up..PLEASE, Conservatives give 2 to 1 in charity, to all who do not have.
That is a FACT!
Look it up before you spew your hate.

^^^
What is it with nutcases and punctuation?

‘You cannot rail against socialism or imperialism by using The Joker. The Joker is an anarchist. None of these posters make ANY sense whatsoever. STOP USING THE JOKER – IT MAKES YOU LOOK LIKE AN IDIOT.’

Why so serious?

Daniel Hoffmann-Gill,

You are a shining light of the outstanding range of thought and discourse of the modern left. You must be proud.

I started by querying whether the left should be decending to the objectionable level of the ‘original’ Obama-joker image. But I see now you ware already there.

Really, is that the best you have to offer?

BTW did you remember to pay your subs to Class-War?

23. LOL

Liberal Conspiracy » Rupert Murdoch and Fox News: ‘imperialism’: Oh dear, as Claude says the issue is th.. http://bit.ly/19KV8C

RT @libcon Liberal Conspiracy » Rupert Murdoch and Fox News: ‘imperialism’ http://bit.ly/GlOi9

Liberal Conspiracy » Rupert Murdoch and Fox News: ‘imperialism’: If you seek to censor points of view, t.. http://bit.ly/19JNf1

You are a shining light of the outstanding range of thought and discourse of the modern left. You must be proud.

Thanks dontmindme, but when we need advice on how the left should be meek and useless, then we’ll come to you.

On the contrary, all that Dontmindme has to teach you, learnt well have you young Skywalker. Time it is to go out into the world and be meek and useless all by yourself.

No, really, since when is liberalism defined by that which you hate? I was under the impression that the liberal way was to live and let live? Or is “liberal” in the context of this debate a cruel joke on the English language?

As to the nature of Truth – regarding the comment in #20

“Obama’s health care reform is a good idea, that is not up for debate but what is up for debate is why so many Americans are so thick, so desperate and so blind to reality that they will scream and shout their way to oblivion…with no sense of irony at all.”

Why is it not up for debate? Is it an article of faith now that Obama can do/say no wrong? I thought you leftist types hated the religious right yet you appear to be attributing almost messianic qualities to Obama and indulging in a weird cult of personality.

Well, I will be the heretic. I think that the US, ne the world given the chance, would have voted for anyone who was not George W Bush or connected to him. That does not make Obama right, it just makes Obama not George W Bush.

Further, just because someone disagrees with you does not make them thick, or stupid, or brain dead, or any other of the sobriquets you seek to load onto those you disagree with. I would refer you to the code of conduct of this site, in particular lines three and four. I would suggest that your attribution of “Thickness” to so many Americans boarders on the Xenophobic. If not it is certainly abusive.

May I explain?

In America, the majority rules…as it should be.
We are not THICK..we are free….or at least we are trying to keep the freedom we have always had.
We will win in doing so.
60% plus in this country DOES NOT WANT THE GOVERNMENT MAKING HEALTH DECISIONS.
85% LIKE their health plans.
For those who do not have coverage there is Medicaid.
Please look up the facts everyone.

How can someone from GB say what is right for America? I am there a couple times a year and you CAN NOT tell anyone who visits there that your system is the right one!

I am a New Yorker, I also love all of Great Britain. I am there 2 to 4 times a year. Yet, I never can understand why you are all so judgemental. What credentials do you have to do so?

Obama..you defend him. Do you think Obama is a friend of Great Britain?
Do you think it was a mistake when he gave Brown unusable videos??????
If he did not want the bust of Winston Churchill, could he not have donated it to a museum for all to admire?

No…his actions were not because he did not admire Brown, which was the excuse by the Brits for Obamas rudeness….the man has no love of Europe..PERIOD. The man does not even like his own country!!!!!

Yet, you defend him and I bet you do not even know why.
We are not ‘thick’ my friends…we merely have the opportunity to change things if we choose.
Do you?
I would like some answers..can you change anything there?
I can answer for you..no you can not.
Therefore, your bitterness is thrown towards those who are free.
Does it make you feel stronger to belittle others? Works just the opposite I am afraid…it makes you small.

We are your brothers and sisters.
Shame on you.

RT @libcon Liberal Conspiracy » Rupert Murdoch and Fox News: ‘imperialism’ http://bit.ly/GlOi9

Sunny

The opposite of “meek” is not exemplared in jeering and insulting language.

When tripe is served I shall yell tripe. Including in this thread Mr DH-G patronising and insulting attacks on foriegners and their funny ways. But I suppose saying “many Americans” are “thick” just for not agreeing with Obama is some how more acceptable in your eyes than saying “many Muslims” are “thick” for not agreeing with the Archbishop of Canterbury.

Shorter ‘dontmindme’ and ‘Mr Tyke’: “This thread is not politically correct.”

Oh the irony, it burns.

Neil. As has been pointed out, I am new here. I am still learning what is and isn’t acceptable in this particular debating forum, and the mindset of those (like Sunny) who are at the heart of the site.

I was certainly not complaining about poilitical correctness, merely what constitutes effective debate and discussion.

Since “•Misogynist, racist, homophobic and xenophobic comments will be deleted” is written in the text directly above the dialogue box I am typing in, it seems reasonable as a newbie to explore what that aspect of the comment policy means in practice. At the moment ‘xenophobia ‘does not seem include calling Americans ‘thick’.

“I am new here”

Well would it be too much to ask that you say something, you know, new?

@30

lol! I like the irony

However, I am merely pointing out that for a site that purports to be politically correct as stated in it’s own code of conduct (not in those exact terms but we get the gist) it has a rather unbalanced application of the rules in that it seems ok to be abusive to those who disagree with the perceived wisdom of Sunny & co rather than engaging in intelligent debate. Once again: disagreement is not a sign of a lack of intellect. Shouting down all debate and name calling probably is.

Actually, a debate on what is “Political Correctness” would be an interesting one.

32. As a self confessed conservative. Yes it would.

@ Mr Tyke

“One cannot complain about perceived political bias on Fox news when it it fully known who owns it. You can choose to watch it or not as there are plenty of other channels to choose from. If you don’t like the product don’t buy it – There are alternatives people!”

So can you please tell us what our choices are??? Apart from Sky….? Or Fox News…?

And who mentioned the silly old Guardian as well? C’mon meany right wingers..the silly ol Guardian that is only read by lefty intellectuals-yeah, really scary! Jus like Fox that engineered an anti-Obama rally! Jus like Glenn Beck is our Polly Toynbee!

Colleen:

You are too kind darling.

Live in UK, spent many, many months in US, although by your logic, opinion and thought can only be based on living there, so opinion is barred unless you live in the nation you wish to debate? That would rule out much of US foreign policy…

Your argument seems to be, yes a poster may have Obama as Hitler on it or Obama dressed as a witch doctor but that it: “has nothing to do with hate or race or anything of the sort.”

Well, you’d have to be pretty thick to swallow that, by all means you disconnect the two but no adult with a working mind would defend such imagery, as you do.

And you use Bush, same goes for him, you put his face and some Nazi imagery together and you’re a tit, I don’t care who it is, using such images and ideas just makes you look like you don’t know who Hitler is, what the difference is between being a Nazi and a Democrat and wat a sorry state US healthcare is in.

As I said, pull your head from your ass.

And what’s all this about a job Colleen? That’s a bit odd, it’s like me saying to you…I don’t know…read some books you great big dumbass but that just wouldn’t be on would it sweetheart?

And you speak of bitterness, this from a penis that marched against a healtplan that would help the terrible situation in the US no end, why else would you march if not out of resentment or bitterness? It can’t be facts because if you had those at your disposal you’d not be marching.

As for Murdoch being a liberal…HA HA HA! You have got to be fucking kidding me?

You are naive if you believe that any news agency that is part of a world wide business tries to work in a way that will not damage the interests of its sister companies..the trouble with profit is, it clouds judgment in the search for it.

As for your final paragraph rant, good stuff, in the sense that it enables those who read it to see you not tackling the issues because you can’t and failing to understand what you were marching about. It is little surprise you can only muster personal attacks rather than debating the issue because you have no knowledge to debate with, just fear, anger and bitterness.

Nice try to project all that shit onto me but you fail.

Also, I need to break some news to you:

Your government will not be making healthcare decisions, also your lack of trust for your government making decisions does not reflect well upon your mental capacity, that is what governments do.

85% MAY like their health plans but many don’t, this is for them.

“For those who do not have coverage there is Medicaid.” Not true, it is not a catch-all, more importantly many WITH cover have problems with their provider.

“How can someone from GB say what is right for America?”

Again, the world is not a closed option, it would be easy to say, how can someone from America say what is right for Iraq? Not being from the nation in question does not forbid you to discuss it, unless you have a problme with freedom of speech? You big facist Nazi?

“I am there a couple times a year and you CAN NOT tell anyone who visits there that your system is the right one!”

Cool, but your opinion is allowed, judgements are allowed, debate is allowed and sharing of ideas.

Your anti-Obama vomiting is quite tiresome Colleen.

“Therefore, your bitterness is thrown towards those who are free.”

Oh here we go with the old YOU HATE US BECAUSE OF OUR FREEDOMS nonsense, stop playing the victim and debate the issue you fool.

Dontmindme:

Thanks, all these compliments from idiots is SO boosting my self-esteem.

Your talk about descending shows your failure to understand the image or the comment that the creator of the image has placed here to offer context to idiots like yourself.

[edited]

Looks good to me. The Conservatives don’t like it up them do they?

Once again: disagreement is not a sign of a lack of intellect. Shouting down all debate and name calling probably is.

Tyke – I think you’re confused and contradictory. This is a piece of art. Discuss it or criticise it. But I’ll still publish it. If you don’t like it, please feel free to go to another blog that matches your concerns. I’m not required to run my editorial policy according to how you want it. Thanks for the concern though. This is an avowedly biased and partisan left-wing site, just to be clear. And that’s how we’ll remain.

@26

when we need advice on how the left should be meek and useless, then we’ll come to you.

@35

You are a nasty, nasty deviant misogynist, racist piece of work.

I cannot say whether the second description of DHG is entirely accurate but I do think, Sunny, you should be careful who you annoint as your champion.

In any case, I believe in absolute freedom of speech, for deviants, misogynists and racists as well as everyone else and, like the previous complainant, my objection to verbal intercourse with DHG is not that his views are objectionable but that he will not engage in rational debate.

From the above thread “deal with it” then “that is funny as fuck, thanks for showing me how deluded you are” followed by the rapier “please pull your head from your ass” are fairly typical examples of his debating style.

So I am not asking for him to be banned and I appreciate meekness is not much found on political blogs but I do have to record that my enjoyment of this site would be significantly greater if he returned to offending Americans (which he seemed to be quite good at).

Sunny

I wish you had left Mr Hoffman-Gills un-edited comment up. It would have made it crystal clear to the readers of your site just what sort of man he is.

BTW I , and I am quite sure that Mr Tyke, understands the biases of the site (it is why I look at it, precisely because it is avowedly left wing, and I for one prefer to test my thinking against those who think differently to me, and not constantly bathe in the comfort of a bath of the like minded). But I for for one fail to understand why you do not understand that all he is asking for is the merits of the case to be debated in a civil way. He is not asking his protagonists to agree with him, merely to explain and debate, not shout and insult. Or are you saying that being left wing absolves this site from such common decency?

@36

Let’s see: BBC, ITV, Channel 4, Channel 5 all have news programs. As for dedicated news channels, I have access to BBC News 24, CNN, Bloomberg and Sky News (I know you said except but that is an option) but not, funnily enough Fox News.

I mentioned the Guardian as an example of a media outlet that is known for its political bias. I could go on. The Telegraph is perceived to be a Tory paper, the Mirror is left wing etc. The point is that it is nigh on impossible to have no editorial bias in a news outlet as the editor, at least, will have some internal bias as to what is, or is not, newsworthy.

@37

Well DHG really has got his knickers in a twist. More childish name calling seems to be the level we have come to expect. But to deal with one or two of his “points”:

With regard to the image itself I think dontmindme’s point was that both it and the Obama version were in poor taste. Simply repeating the lack of taste in the original doesn’t make that deficiency go away.

“Obama’s healthcare reform is not up for debate because unless you’ve a better idea bitch and the ability to put the idea into practice, it’s all hot air from a Know-Nothing.”

So you are saying that only Obama, by virtue of his being in a position to enact his ideas, has the right to come up with policy? Seeing as you do not have the ability to put your ideas into practice, then by your own definition you are a “Know-Nothing” spouting so much hot air. Nice line in dictatorship thinking there!

As for the Obama cult thing, I was pointing out that you, and others, defend anything he has to say as if it were quasi-religious gospel to which no opposition is allowed. Obama the Great Leader can do no wrong. Anyone who has the temerity to question His Great Wisdom is to be crushed. It was the same with Polly Toynbee in the Guardian slavishly defending Gordon Brown.

“My use of thick also seems to have got people all heated up, I use it because it is true, there are thick people in America, indeed educationally literacy and numercay are falling”

Heh! They don’t appear to be too hot over here either! That’s “numeracy” by the way. My argument was that you, and the left in general, seems to be fine with xenophobia and abuse when it is directed towards America.

My argument with Obama’s healthcare reforms is that they are Socialist in nature and, I really dislike Socialism, I will argue against them.

The article, however, was to do with the perceived ills of a News Channel in the States and not, per se, with the minutae of Healthcare reform.

I restate my case. No one is forcing you to watch Fox News. No one is forcing you to agree with it’s editoral stance. You have a remote control – use the power of the button to change channels and watch something else.

Or maybe, like a moth you can’t escape the flame of truth

Due to censorship, the numbers on the comments no longer tally with my references in #41, they should now read 35 & 36 respectively. Apologies for any confusion.

MUrdock a liberal.
Dandelion and Murdock
I love the idea that Rupert is Guardian reader.
Collen are you Irish American.
How is Noraid

Mr Tick
My argument with Obama’s healthcare reforms is that they are Socialist in nature and, I really dislike Socialism, I will argue against them.

Really, I would say that they are Christian Democratic style reforms.

Let’s see: BBC, ITV, Channel 4, Channel 5 all have news programs. As for dedicated news channels, I have access to BBC News 24, CNN, Bloomberg and Sky News (I know you said except but that is an option) but not, funnily enough Fox News
Well that is strange because I have just been watching it.
Get the sky + package.
The you can tape Reilly and Beck
As a leftie I quite like Sky but I am afraid Fox is too full of hate.
I do hope that OFCOM is not put into mothballs.
As for the Joker thing.
I bet Obama and Rupert would find it quite funny.
I can understand the socialist references but why Collen and Mr T , could you explain why there was lots of Southern crosses in the marches against Obama.
It looked like good old fashioned lynching.

@ Rian #44

Really? Never really seen the difference between the two myself. Much of Christian Democracy seems to be Socialist in bent but there you go – that’s just my opinion.

Owners and monitors of this site.

Please read the comments of Hoffmann -Gill # 36.

This person has been thrown off from blogs because of hate AND perversion.
Sunny..you write that this is all about debate.

Debate is great, it brings understanding.
However, Hoffmmann-Gill breeds hate and his language is vulgar..

Please consider following the rules you set forth as it is good for all to learn from one another.

This man is a perverted, hateful distraction. His words should not be printed.
This is to be a Liberal site, but this person..what ever he is, makes anyone who is a liberal look badly..very badly.

He is a poor pathetic soul who needs help quite badly. Why give him a forum to speak on.
Trust me, you will find him elsewhere as well, and he is disgusting. He has been shut off many times and for good reason.

Please take one moment and look him up…it is then your call.

Colleen

“This person has been thrown off from blogs because of hate AND perversion.”

She’s quite right Daniel. Choose one and stick to it. Getting thrown off for both is confusing them.

His words should not be printed.

Agree with most of what you say and my own case is made above.

But not censorship.

Write your own words and let the reader decide.

Ryan Rae,

What a fine IRISH name! I have a brother Ryan and two nephews.
You seem to be obsessed with what I wrote as you mentioned my name several times.
First off…please study some American history before you make comments about Southern Crosses.
It would be good to do some research so that you know what you are writing about.
Be informed.
Many of the southern states voted for Obama…it is always good to be informed isn’t it?

Another assumption…Noraid. You are just filled with hate aren’t you? Or..would it be called envy?
I am not from Boston my good friend, my Grandparents are from Northern Ireland..Antrim.
They settled in Scranton Pa and worked in the coal mines. They worked hard…VERY hard.
They then saved their money and bought massive amounts of land and farmed it.
All family because of these great people, then went off to college and made wonderful lives here in America.
Try not to judge before you even know who someone is, or anything about them.
You may learn much.
Do you have any more questions…RYAN???????

Fair point Coleen.. The Left do seem to have a rather blinkered view of the USA. See, the Left don’t really “do” freedom. They don’t like it because it is rather hard to control that which is free and the Left is all about control. They seek to limit freedoms wherever they can. They cannot help it, it is their way. We should pity them as, over this side of the pond, they are pretty beaten and demoralised, seeing as they are shortly to be kicked out when Broon is forced, by law, to call a General Election.

to Sunny @ 38

Fair points all… You are the editor of the site and can publish what you will. I was simply asking for clarification as to the applicability or not of the rules of the site to different targets. It seems that, just occasionally, these rules may not be applied in a totally consistant manner though that may be adding to my confusion.

As to the artistic merits, or otherwise, of the piece in question, I believe I did attempt to discuss this when I said that I considered the piece to be in poor taste to the same degree that the original work that this was based on was also in poor taste if not only because it was drawn from the late Heath Ledger’s portaial of the character.

As to the bias of the site, I am well aware of said bias towards the Left of the political spectrum. I don’t come here to debate with people who hold the same views as I do. I come here to engage in intelligent debate on some of the issues of the day specifically with people who hold different views from myself. I do however think that intelegent debate is diminished by trolling, name calling and abuse.

As to my own position on American politics, I am no fan of Obama, but then I am no fan of the Religious Right either. In many ways my views tend to be close to those of Classical Liberalism.

I think it’s a reasonable criticism that many in Europe have a caricatured image of the United States. Unfortunately though I think the teabaggers only serve to reinforce these stereotypes. It wasn’t even a particularly large crowd. Thirty times as many turned up for the inauguration.

Jimmy,
America does not care what Europe thinks, we have been disillusioned with our homeland for a very long time now.
Many years ago, the exact same sarcasm about the United states was alive and well.
You know, the old former empire jealousies?
The French hate the English..the English hate the French, it goes on and on and on.
Do not tell me differently I just spent the first 3 weeks of June in France with two British friends.
Also,you are quite wrong about the march in Washington. The crowds are measured by helicopters according to the amount of land mass that is occupied by people.
Stop only reading Liberal sites and become informed.
There was very little difference in numbers between the march and inauguration. Please read up will you?

So….because of the march , Europe thinks poorly of America?
Are you kidding? This way of thinking has been going on for many years. How about since the Revolutionary war!
May I say something as politely as possible?
Get over it!

Every sarcastic remark.. every inaccurate remark on this blog….is mere envy of our freedom to make our own choices.
That is now being threatened by Obama and all who are corrupt behind him, but he will loose. Please check his stats. He is losing now.

I asked friends who live up near Penrith in the lake District last Fall while visiting me here in New York…….why do you not protest?
I care for these friends dearly, they are great people. Do you know what their answer was?
“The British are too polite.” Both graduates of Durham.
I wanted to choke, just read the writings in the above blogs. Polite??????

No, that is not the reason. Socialism is very hard to undo once it is set in.
I do however feel that if the British people are happy, that is a good thing.
The majority now, and the numbers are growing, feel that it is unacceptable here.

Sunny,
Please change the ‘rules’ on your blog. Apparently you feel that vulgarity and hate speech is fair game. I can hold my own, but I must tell you, Gill being given the “go” sign from you that calling a fellow human a ‘penis’ among other disgusting remarks…is not intelligent debate.
How can one learn if they do not speak with respect to one another?
Yes, all know this is a bias blog, that is what made it interesting. However, ridicule of another’s thoughts and beliefs mixed with vulgarity..BREEDS HATE.
Do you find that acceptable?

Mr. Tyke,
You are quite informative. You are fair and you are a gentlemen.
Please consider starting your own blog, we need more people like you. There are several on here who are quite nice and wish to learn ways of others, not to belittle and ridicule.
It is okay to be on the right..or on the left, but never spread hate. I believe people are good, they really are, and by reaching out, we all join together, if not in agreement, then respect.
I think the ‘Freedom’ thing started here in America because so many people from around the world have always arrived on our shores to be free. America is everyone. That is why when I hear such hateful comments I say to myself…but WE are YOU!

Stay who you are Mr. Tyke.
Colleen

The fire department estimated 50-70k. Even Fox, the organisers, gave a similar estimate. I don’t think Europe does think poorly of America. The only people questioning America’s freedom to make choices are the marchers who still haven’t accepted that they lost the election.

To all,
It is very important to make something very clear. The United States does NOT consider itself an empire. That is a European term that was chosen to describe us.
We are all the same, we all laugh, we all cry, we all bleed, we all hurt.
One’s color means nothing, it is merely the tone of their skin.
Every country is rich in tradition and has it’s own special beauty.

Jimmy, it was Bill O on Fox that came up with that number. Please compare photos of the Capital of the march and the inauguration.
The people who claimed 2 million..they were wrong, that was a complete exaggeration.
I will however agree with and back up the reports from professionals who do mass readings from the air of the masses. I was at both events Jimmy, so I do have a pretty good idea as to the size of the crowd. The inauguration was larger…but not FAR larger. This was not a competition to begin with, so not sure why it is an issue.

Losing the election is not the problem Jimmy. We have elections every four years and the majority rules.
It is a good thing for each party to have it’s day. When this does not happen and where it does not happen, it is called tyranny.

I think Obama winning this election has actaully been a good thing as it has reminded us just how valuable our freedoms are.

It is not paradise here and no one claims that it is. However, we are no better or no worse than any other country on this earth.
Shall we agree on that?

Colleen,

There is a strand of left orginated anti-Americanism that is now quite old. It has its roots in the cold war, when the communist regimes of the Warsaw pact (as was) were still seen as exemplars of the future by the left. Now history has moved on and not even the left defend the old communist regimes anymore. However the legacy of anti-Americanism never went away, and sad to say, in the years since 9/11 it has taken surprisingly deep roots more generally now. The arrival of Gods annointed one, sorry President Obama, has softened the mood for now, but I assure you it is there and it endemic.

Its not just America by the way. Try dropping Israel into the conversation and then see what happens.

It apperars to me that the USA in some respects has rested on its laurels in recent years, and has not done a good PR job on itself. It needs and continues to need to promote its values, the reasons for those values and its intentions far more. The old line Truth Justice and The American Way, lost its impact a long time ago outside the USA, because those who dislike America and its values have had little in the way of challenge from those who do.

After all it has come to a very sad pass when the bordering-on-insane rantings of the Iranian President are given as much if not more credence than those of the USA by many.

So in answer to your question, there are many would would not agree with your question 56.

Colleen,
Let me just make my position clear, American social policy is the buisiness of the Americans and I rarely comment on American politics preferring Europe and the Middle-East.
I do, however, object to your continual references about the freedoms you enjoy as an American citizen, which covertly suggests that the UK do not enjoy freedom.
I have just seen clips of Glen Beck and Rush Limbaugh ranting about Obama and his so-called affiliation to Marxism and communism, this was juxtaposed to clips from the McCarthy period (of which I know a little)
We in the Uk can, without impunity, support all manner of parties from Marxism to Fascism, from liberalism to social democracy. Yes, some of these groups attract demonstrators, but the law is actually on side of those parties.. And we do not have commentators on mainstream political shows ranting in a way which would make Hitler envious.

“Shall we agree on that?”

Colleen, you needn’t be so defensive. I’m very fond of your country and a regular visitor. I just can’t take the odious Mr. Beck and his acolytes seriously. The point I was making about the size of the crowd was simply that it would be unfair for someone to look at the crazies in the picture and conclude they were typical Americans. Typical Americans stayed at home, much like the rest of us.

Thank you #57 and #58
I say this because your replies were stating how you see things, without vulgarity and without ridicule of people of a different thinking.
I think that there is a great misunderstanding of when I use the word ‘freedom’.
When I use it, it is about the people (majority) making the decisions on what affects our lives. Not the decisions bureaucrats
They rarely if ever taken the needs of the people to heart, but simply enjoy the power of making decisions over the ‘little people’.
This is something that the majority of people do not want here.
I read the BBC on a daily basis and I also see it when I am over there at weeks at a time.
Yes..it is different there.
We prefer debate. Period. If it is passionate..all the better!
Your form of discussing the world as it is. A room full of shall we call them academics, sitting having a discussion (I am not speaking of Parliament or any form of government) and what I see is a group of people who are simply trying to outsmart one another. Which one IS the most intelligent, which one sees things as they really are. Which one is the most enlightened and which one knows exactly what is humane and how the entire world should accept THEIR beliefs.
To me, this is a mere waste of time and accomplishes nothing.
What they say is merely their thoughts and their views, and often times they are not correct in their facts, especially when they form opinions in what is right or wrong in other countries.
Our cultures are VERY different. It took me a long time to see just how different. This took many trips to Europe to really understand this great difference. I have only stayed in two Middle Eastern countries, both……the peoples were magnificent.
If you feel fascism is acceptable, that is fine. However, the majority here who are now getting a taste of it, or better said threatened with it, it is not acceptable to them.
Yes I know that the parties are in control there. Here, as of yet, the people control the parties as we pay their salaries.If they do not represent the people, they are voted out.
The youth here are starting to kick back, so it is not just the remainders of those of us who lived through the Cold War.

Steveb,
Please keep in mind that McCarthy was a politician.Therefore it can not be connected to what is happening now. THE PEOPLE are merely saying no. We have our own minds and our own rights.
People like Beck and Rush, they actually are completely different people with completely different views on what is happening. They are not in step with each other, if you lived here, you would know that.
Rather than condemning their beliefs, it is best to prove why what they say is not a truth, don’t you think?
Comparing them to Hitler in their rants, which I would consider debate, is a bit of a oxymoron.
Hitler did not debate did he?
Rush and Beck, one can merely turn the radio or TV off, as simple as that. They do not control the government, nor do they build gas chambers. They are not threats they are commentators.Therefore any reference to what was just written above, is absurd.
Religion is a great thing, unless they use their religion as their excuse to kill. That is not acceptable.
Yes..I know of the Crusades, so please do not use as an issue. I am speaking of all religions.
Within 3 miles of my home, two small mosques have been built. They are beautiful. Americans quite like people of Islamic faith and other than for threats of the mis-content, or those who have actually arrived here to harm the people of the US, they are very much respected and live lives equal to if not better than the average American citizen.
You say the word Asian over there, we say Middle Eastern.
It would be wonderful if someday, the great country of the UK, expressed concerns of their own country and then.did something about it, rather than attacking the culture of other countries.
Yet, you call yourselves a multicultural society. Not yet friends, but keep working on it.
. Please read ‘Have your say” on the BBC each day….you call that multiculturalism?
I call it hateful and judgemental.
The United states is a country of immigrants. Always was, always will be. No one understands multiculturalism better than we do.
Sadly…there is prejudice. Not by majority, but by those who are unhappy people to begin with. I do not admire a one of them.
Look however at the hateful words of those who proclaim to be English..against the Irish and Scottish and yes, even Wales..
So when you judge another country, please take a good look at yourselves.
Is it merely being human to do so?.I don’t know, but I think it is likely.
Perhaps someday, we all rise above it.

I think American conservatives need to understand that they do not have a single freedom worth having (and owning forearms actually inhibits freedom if gun nutters thought it through – which of course they wouldn’t) that we Brits and other Europeans do not also have.

And indeed, I’d argue we Brits have more freedoms than most middle class Americans!

1. The Freedom to have 5 weeks off work paid
2. The Freedom to got to hospital or see a Doctor without having to pay
3. The Freedom to have 12 months maternity leave – 6 months paid, 6 months unpaid
4. The Freedom from worry over our healthcare if we get made redundant
5. Freedom from destitution if we get made redundant
6. Freedom from a murder rate five times higher than our own

Yeah, our libel laws are crap and inhibit freedom of speech a bit, but that’s about all.

Colleen. Comment 61 makes my point for me.

Utter ignorance of American history is quite widespread (The place of firearms in US history and why the constitution is framed the way it is).

Utter ignorance of America today (The US is actually a safer place than the Uk when looking at all volent offences),

And a startling misunderstanding of what freedom is. (Going to the doctors and paying for it through taxation is not a freedom, it is social policy arrived at by people free to choose that policy through the ballot box). We are still a free people because we can abolish it through the same mechanism (unlikely I admit)

Finally, I am glad you did not include the French in peoples subject to hurtful things the English say. I would be really quite depressed if I could not insult the French anymore.

Ben and Jimmy

Ben,
This is where there is great misunderstanding.
Gun’s is something I am totally against, as are many conservatives are, however there are hunters here and the screaming of the NRA to not take away their freedom of guns is deafening.
Gun’s for protection is a separate issue. I guess the old adage is, if guns are forbidden, only criminals will have them. I have no answer to it Ben.
I was just in England in January. The amount of stabbings now is quite frightening, so it is not that we all do not have major problems is it?
You get much news from Liberal sites, who are desperately trying to promote their agenda.
I am at the moment sitting down at the Jersey shore, taking 2 weeks of my 6 week vacation time per year.
Ben..I earned it.
There are cultures here who are not willing to earn it and many times are given first opportunity to be hired for many jobs. It is law. Since all are equal in value, let us hope this someday changes.
No need to explain your health system, as I have flown over to see friends that are sick. If you are able to have private insurance, things are good. If you are not able, and you are older, I see that side of the health system as well. One friend was put on massive doses of codeine for 9 months, waiting for testing. She did not have private insurance.
She is now permanently disabled.
The huge number of people that you hear about that are not insured here, many are those who have entered this country illegally.
It is a major problem and a great flaw in our system.
However, I and all working Americans do pay much for our coverage to make sure..illegal or not, that they are never turned away for medical help.
They NEVER are…that is also against the law, to be refused medical coverage under any circumstance. If you hear differently, you are not hearing the truth.
Yes, there is maternity leave here as well and it is the same, after the allotted time, you receive no money. The choice is yours.
It is also law that Social Security comes into affect if you fall ill.
So many things I read from over there are so untrue. I think it is because the BBC leans left and therefore your main source to the news, only gives the views of the left, often times to promote a particular agenda.
I have written to the BBC many times and asked, why is there not one conservative on your staff? Not one.
Do you see anything wrong with this?
How can we learn and understand all peoples if we do not hear both sides…please explain.
This is not about what country is superior, there are not superior countries. We all just move along the best we can and find happiness wherever and whatever it may be.

Jimmy,
Glad you have been here. Perhaps you can write of how well you were received, respected and welcomed. You see here, we do not publish reports or write blogs of Ill’s of the British people. Perhaps someday this respect will be returned.
Protests and rallies are the American way Jimmy. Always has been.
It is the people speaking.
Other than a handful of idiots who did not write decent signs, 99 % did write good signs.
The word OBAMA is a name, not a skin tone. So when you saw his name often it is because we are not happy with this man. It is over 50% of the people now. Perhaps there is a problem with this man. He is now #3 of all presidents to drop so fast in polling. All polling.
Half the country that was not at the march..were behind the march.
So I am afraid that what you saw was typically American.
It is called…”WE THE PEOPLE”.
We owe this great right to our British forefathers.
Thank you Great Britain.

“Perhaps you can write of how well you were received, respected and welcomed. ”

Charming people. In New Orleans in particular I was not so much welcomed as adopted. There’s nothing wrong with criticism and I don’t accept that it’s all in one direction. There is even a little teasing. The British didn’t make up all those jokes about their teeth by themselves.

“We owe this great right to our British forefathers.
Thank you Great Britain.”

Actually they were on the other side.

I’m afraid you owe it to the French.

Jimmy,

Yes, the french were involved with the Revolution.
I however am speaking of the Constitution and the Bill of Rights. The British framed and signed these documents and far outscored the French.

These men (the British) may have been a part of the resistance and of first and second generation, but they were just as British!

Take a look at your constitution, you may be shocked at the similarities.

Next time here, a fascinating trip is to start in Jamestown, the first British settlement. From there..it is history up and down the coast.

Dontmindme,
You certainly are an independent thinker. Oh how I wish all were! The world would be a much greater and safer place. No putting down the thoughts and beliefs of others and accepting differences in cultures.

Oh what a wonderful dream!

The French……okay..I will leave that up to you..LOL

I do know..or think anyway, British food is far superior to French! When in Paris in June, I saw a pub named Winston Churchill..I was so excited!
They did not have ONE British dish on the menu.

@Dontmindme

It is conservatives who are wilfully ignorant of real freedom, their sense of it extends to a narrow, perverted economic freedom and, er, that is about it.

Freedom goes much deeper than your average conservative’s understanding of it, encompassing liberty from humanity’s historical afflictions like poverty, illness, slavery, religious subjugation and so on.

Freedom is certainly not defined by permitting rich people to avoid their financial obligations on the rest of society by the tawdry avoidance of paying some income tax.

And this, in essence, is why conservatism has failed.

Ben,
Please check poll’s…LIBERAL polling on the president if you wish.
Conservatives always come back, stronger than ever. That is why they are in the White House more than Liberals.

Please check out politics in America before you make statements that are way off base.

Mr Know it all about American politics…the Libs were in majority the last 2 years of the Bush Presidency.
Got that? Understand?

Fannie and Freddie (our largest lending institutions), who are the ones that are to blame for the beginning of the collapse here (please look up the facts) was lead by two of our most Liberal politicians.
Chris Dodd and Barney Frank.

Please look up these facts Ben and then perhaps you can speak a bit about American politics.

The United States experienced 54 months of growth in a row. UP TILL the Libs gained the majority in the Senate and the Congress..
Therefore….when they are up for re-election in 2010…they are going so fall so fast, they will take years to recover.

Please look things up before you make untrue comments.
If you do not know that there is a difference ,not the same entities, between Conservatives and Wall Street….well…..you really are over your head.

Many of these money grubbing firms (you were right about that) are in the state of New York. My state.
It is also true that New York is one of the most Liberal states in the union.

Now….think about it.
Also, if you can find anything that I have written not to be fact, please post.

@ Colleen

I’m not an expert on US politics, I admit that.

However, I at least don’t take conservative propaganda at face value like you do.

It’s amazing that despite everything US conservatives have done to stuff up your country that you are still prepared to defend that ignorant, squalid, damaging little movement.

Look up some facts about your country like who signed the largest tax increase into law? (Reagan); who caused the Savings & Loans fiasco (Reagan); Who ended their tenure as president with a well deserved 22pc approval rating? (Bush Jnr); what caused the Credit Crunch? (conservative economics and conservative greed).

Ben,
I do not even know what to say to you. You are so misguided and so far left, that nothing I say will sink in.
I am not saying that you may not be a very nice person, you may very well be.
I am also not even attempting to change your beliefs because I have not that right. I also make no claim to be more intelligent than you are.

Bush’s approval at the end of his presidency was 32 to 34 %, going by the national average of polling.
Obama is now between 44 and 47%. That is a huge fall within 9 months from the time of his election.
That makes over half of the United States against the policies of this president.
You call that a SMALL movement?

I was a Democrat (Liberal) for most of my life. I did not vote for Obama because I saw things that were not good. I even was involved with the Robert Kennedy campaign as a very young girl.

The more I hear Obama speak, the more I am glad that I had no part in his election.
Even though he has completely rejected England, which makes me very angry, many of you refuse to see it.

The day will come though that you will see…I promise.

No hard feelings Ben and take good care.

Please Ben, go back to the internet and read more about American politics if you are going to write about them.

Fundamentally in this thread, many people need to read Sunny’s comment@38:

“I think you’re confused and contradictory. This is a piece of art. Discuss it or criticise it. But I’ll still publish it. If you don’t like it, please feel free to go to another blog that matches your concerns.”

And hopefully understand it.

Also, regarding the baseless smears that have been published here by some demented ‘DC’ resident, it’s important to know that I am collecting evidence on these smears and working closely with police in the UK to deal with the author of them.

pagar:

Nice efforts to try and have me shut up, EPIC DALE. I’ll debate issues all day long if people actually bring some to the table, when people just blather then it is a free for all. Seems fair enough.

Dontmindme:

To repeat, the comment, that is actually a libellous smear that I am in the process of dealing with the police; is in no way true or accurate or indeed having any basis in reality.

Your willingness to believe an anoymous poster with an axe to grind over someone who does not hide behind anonymity speaks volumes.

I’d be careful about what man you think I am based on scant evidence and your own deep set personal prejudice.

Mr Tyke:

There is a very big difference between the sort of bias that is based within a political agenda and one that is bought, also, the list you present is itself a moot point regarding elements and levels of bias and in which way the bias swings.

And the author of the image has already and very articulatly explained in some detail the way the image works, there is little need to continue a circular debate on it.

Re: Obama’s healthcare plan (that is in reality owned also by a Congress that is helping craft it and got it through the tortuous process of becoming law), the man who is President has rightly come to the conclusion, with many others in America, that healthcare needs reform, that is not up for debate, unless you think the status quo is acceptable Tyke?

That is part of his job. The plan also happens to be a good one, in that it is not so progressive that it is to be thrown out, nor so watered down (yet) that it achieves nothing; more importantly it fills the key holes in the current system.

I’m not sure what point you’re trying to make but he got elected to the role to do such things and such things he is doing.

I already dealt with your false and silly accusation of the Obama-cult argument you falsely put forward, there really is nothing more to be said on the matter. You made the accusation, it is flase, job done, you are merely trotting out a tired old argument.

Regarding US levels of education your argument seems to consist of: LOOK OVER THERE which is of no use in a decent debate. It matters little of what the level is in the UK, the matter is America is experiencing a crisis in intellect.

“My argument with Obama’s healthcare reforms is that they are Socialist in nature and, I really dislike Socialism, I will argue against them.”

Well, that shows how little you know of Obama’s healthcare plan either/or what socialism is, also, your dogmatic stance does not enable problem solving but thankfully you are no where near power to enact decision making.

Your arguement seems to be no one forces you to watch FAUX NEWS thus they can do what they want, which is odd and simple minded at best and woefully thick at worst, I hope in re-reading your base approach you’ll perhaps see that opinion and discussion, like Colleen, is not limited to such narrow parameters.

And that flame of truth bit…fuck me you’re deluded regarding your convictions and mental prowess.

Also, avoid saying things like: the Left have a blinkered view of the USA because it makes you look bad, mainly because the Left is an amorphous mass and the idea that you of all people can pick out a coherent view on one nation from that fictional grouping means you’re either deluded or daft.

Sweeping generalisations to win brownie points with a mentalist is a moot point but she does think you’re a gentelmen…I smell romance in the air!

Colleen:

You are an odd creature, you cry about being silenced and then try and silence, you moan about your voice being heard and then try and shut down another voice.

You also make grand sweeping chracter statements, once again attacking the man rather than the idea, speaks volumes about you. I enjoy your family histories here but only like gawping at a car crash that involves a horse box.

The best bit is where you ask Sunny to change the rules here, heh, that made me giggle, as did your use of the word penis. EEK! A MOUSE!

Can I also point out that you haven’t lost any freedoms under Obama but you did under Bush, please see the Patriot Act for ref.

Also, you seem to confuse the Republican Party and the historical idea of it with conservatism, which is not the case, the brand of GOP politics that can be branded as conservative is relativly new process, historically the party and many of its leaders have been liberal.

I think the worse thing about you is that your prejudice and partizan thinking is so deep set that you find it hard to rise your snout from the trough and engage with any idea of reality, preferring instead to churn out talking points and fiction.

I look forward to beating you about the head with some facts.

Colleen:

“You are so misguided and so far left, that nothing I say will sink in.”

Replace left with right and you’ve got what the rest of us here are thinking.

Still, let’s bat on with your bollocks shall we?

You mention Bush Jnr’s ratings seemingly forgetting a) how bad they were in comparison to other Presidents and b) you then show how much highly Obama is rated, mention that is has fallen from around 69% when he took over but forget to add that Presidents always start off high and fall, such is the nature of the job.

Apart from Bush jnr that is who ticked along pretty damn low through out aside from the understandable 9/11 boost.

You also confuse the narrow banding of the approval ratings with approval for the healthcare policy and make some erroneous claim about half of the nation, following your logic when Bush dipped to 27% approval near the end of his time that would make that a referendum on all of his policies, when it does not.

And why in this thread are you going on about polling data?

As for data on how people seem to be feel about reform, the latest poll has it that 45% want to pass reform and 39% want to keep the current system. That is little indication on Obama but a big comment on how stupid some people are, considering how bad the current system is. Sometimes I think America deserves to have terrible policies en-acted upon it but that’s just me.

As for Obama rejecting England, for a start I think you mean Britain (sorry for the pedentry) and also I think you are perhaps reading a bit too much into some small decisions and moments because, as your own words point out, you are not a fan of Obama. An objective eye on this matter is not your strong suit.

Please Colleen, go back to the internet and read more about American politics if you are going to write about them.

Sorry, I just couldn’t resist!

With the return of Hoffmmann-Gill I will be signing off for good . A man that is just so nice..they named him twice!
There is enough hate and prejudice in this world, without intentionally seeking it. He is a very sick puppy.

Ben, Jimmy, Dontmindme, Mr. Tyke and a few others, it was grand to meet you all. You all made your points and I did learn something from all of you, thank you.

Have a great Fall and may the wind always be at your back.
Colleen

Colleen:

You’re ducking the issues at hand which is of little surprise to me but a shame nevertheless.

Well Coleen, you asked – so here it is http://mrtyke.wordpress.com

All welcome – even DGH if he can refrain from trolling

When he said “And that flame of truth bit…fuck me you’re deluded regarding your convictions and mental prowess.” he failed to spot the winking eye denoting a tongue in cheek! Hey Ho

@Colleen

I forgot to mention that amongst all their other, burgeoning, character flaws extreme US conservatives are also pathalogical liars.

Obama’s current job ratings are averaging in the low 50s as even a cursory glance at a polling website would tell you.

Of course these polls exclude the equally untrustworthy Rasmussen Reports polls which has breathlessly attempted – but failed – to prove that Americans think like you do.

Your opinions are the minority in your country.

DHG. I was referring to your orginal post 36, which was up long enough to be read before it was edited. MY thoughts on what sort of man are based on what I understand are your own words. Or do you dent authorship of 36. as orginally posted?

DHG : dent = deny

Mr Tyke:

Nice ducking, seems to be a pattern of the bluster in this thread, attack the man not the issues, I bring in some facts and we go back to mud slinging.

Cool.

Dontmindme:

I have no record of the original text in 36 and did not notice it was edited, I stand by anything I typed in that comment, esp. now in the face of the shit that has been thrown by your lover Colleen.

Also, it may hurt you to know this but you passing judgement on me has no worth or value.

DHG. You may be not surprised to learn I am not too disappointed by your response. Indeed, your response has restored the sentiment that I wished to highlight the edited text has lost so we can all be satisfied.

Since you are the one who raised the issue of libel. I should point out that have only one lover, my wife, and she is not called Colleen. Although Colleen seems perfectly pleasant, and if Colleen and I met I am sure we would get along just fine, all the same your accusation is false.

Given your bio, I am beginning to wonder if the stuff you come out with is some sort of modernist performance art in action. After all nothing else comes to mind as plausible explanation for your commentary

Dontmindme:

Again, what value has your personal opinion on to me to anyone but you? Thus, all this is about is you airing your opinion confusing it with some sort of fact. So best to shut up I think, unless you actually want to debate the isue rather than me.

And I’m very glad that you can see a future between you and Colleen.

For heaven’s sake can you two take this nonsense to e-mail? If you’re going to have a handbag fight in public view you’re both going to have to make it a lot funnier.

Thanks