“Her contemporaries, she says, “usually come round to my way of thinking in the end. I’m probably the one, the only feminist there is and the others are all out of step.”

Poor little Fay has become delusional. Not unsual in liberals who become Conservatives as they get older.

Weldon’s an idiot, but what on earth do you mean when you say ‘basic of feminism, women need to be independent of men ! This means earning…’ – that’s a rather big assumption you’re making, isn’t it? I stay at home with my children and earn very little – it’s a choice I’ve made freely (on the basis that raising children is, I think, an *extremely* important occupation and a better use of my time than anything else I could have done for the last six years), and I’m fed up to here with other women telling me that my choice isn’t a feminist one. I don’t let Weldon tell me what feminism is, and – newsflash! – you’re not the ultimate arbiter either.

#2
Excuse me sally for what might be perceived as pedantry, but I must point out that “delusional” means pertaining to delusions, whereas “deluded” means “suffering from delusions”. “Delusional” is properly used only before abstract nouns such as “ideas, thinking, ideation”, while “deluded” is used only in reference to human entities. That is, if people are suffering from delusions, they are deluded – and they have delusional ideas. To say that someone is delusional is semantically anomalous.

“Your view of women AND men is insulting , seeing them as insecure shallow beings who need looking after and pandering to”.

Insulting?

Surely, it is difficult to argue against the fact that most of us feel insecure (if we are honest about it).

And we all experience a universal, and lifelong need to be looked after (see Bowlby’s attachment theory, particularly the type of conditions that activate the need to be looked after).
http://psychology.about.com/od/loveandattraction/ss/attachmentstyle.htm

‘Shallow’ can be read in a number of ways, but its certainly true that we all play cultural games, perhaps some simply become more adept at playing than others?

Fay Weldon may not comply with an ideal blue-print but it seems that feminists cannot even agree amongst themselves what the precise rules of the game are half the time?

Fay Weldon taught me for a term. Creative Writing at Brunel.

Stepford Wives is what we want but who can make them for us?

Fay Weldon, it seems, is a feminist like Tony Blair is a socialist. Seriously no man worth a damn feels undermined by feminism. The only men who feel undermined by feminism are the same men who feel undermined by ethnic diversity and LGBT rights, that is to say, inadequate whiners.

Rowan , Fays point was about men being put off women who were busy working . She was talking pre relationship . My point is that women who are single need to earn money .

Staying at home with kids is a valid choice , but dependency on a man to provide can make women vulnerable . It’s harder to leave if you have been outof the job Market , dont have savings etc. Of course the fathers should offer support but that does not always happen .Employers should be more supportive if women returning . But the ability to earn a wage gives a woman independence and that is the reality when relationships break down.

But my main point was that Weldon was talking about single women who have careers putting off men.

To me , feminism is about choices and bringing up kids is a choice and women should have support and I’d never say a woman isn’t a feminist if she is a stay at home mother .

I’m just saying in this society , independence is linked to being able to afford to leave a relationship and that’s harder if you are out of the workplace .

“Fay Weldon taught me for a term. Creative Writing at Brunel.”

Er…Ok…and?

In that case, shouldn’t that be…

“Dusk. The long and languorous Brunel Summer; mind swimming with an endless stream of rhetorical possibility, my eager tread raised a raucous crunch from the fusty gravel paths of academe, skitting home to a girding pot-noodle; essential sustenance for any mortal braving the spiralling literary vortex to take up Weldon’s Creative gauntlet.”?

Or wasn’t she any good?

Also , I did write this quickly, I was trying to get across that women being able to work and choosing careers if they want is a basic of feminism . A choice .

Weldon is criticising women who are busy working as off putting to men , but we jaw fought hard to have careers if we choose .
She is wanting to go back to a time when women were not interested in careers , were nice girls who didn’t have sex easily and pretended to be less clever than men and massage their egos .

monkeyfish- i only met her once! she taught me by email and no, she wasn’t much help…

monkeyfish, do you do that stuff for a living? That was really good.

Yasmin Alibhai-Brown has spoken like this in the past too.

http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentators/yasmin-alibhai-brown/yasmin-alibhaibrown–how-i-became-a-surrendered-wife-674854.html

http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentators/yasmin-alibhai-brown/yasmin-alibhaibrown-is-feminism-to-blame-for-our–dumbeddown-sexnow-culture-681616.html

And my own point to Chris Baldwin @ 8 would be: it really depends on your idea of what feminism is.

”She was vilified for her assertion in an interview in 1998 that being raped wasn’t the worst thing that could happen to a woman”

Is it? I’m sure she wouldn’t make light of rape. Maybe the point she was trying to make got lost in the vilification.
Maybe she was saying that a woman having her arm cut off by some lunatic might be worse.

Neil

Nope. It’s a thought though. Seems there’s a fair chance I’ll be out of work soon; given the tendency of stroppy, sarcastic bastards to rise effortlessly to the top of any potential redundancy lists during economic downturns.
Maybe I’ll set up an internet Creative Writing academy: a basic introductory course whose more able graduates can then progress to an MA in advanced trolling.