“both misogynist and misandrist”, surely? Sexism already encompasses misandry…

And interesting contention, but it doesn’t ring true to me. I agree that society’s expectations of men and their behaviour are no good for men. But in this case, I just don’t buy that the emphasis and tone of the media coverage has been driven by anything other than misogynist instincts.

The coverage of Amanda Knox has been tasteless in so many ways– It’s the Knox coverage that was a bigger wakeup call for me.

john b beat me to it: misandrism is sexism. The coverage wasn’t very good, I think we’ll agree, but viewing it through the prism of sexism isn’t going to help an awful lot, until many, many other, more pressing aspects of the case and its coverage are dealt with (demonisation of social workers, the spectre of an underclass being raised, the irrational ‘solutions’ posited by out-of-touch commentators, the apologias from some trying to defend the indefensible: an explanation is not an excuse, etc).

Hi,

I wrote sexism and misandry, in that I think it has been discriminatory to both men and women in different ways, but more hateful of an approximation of the male nature. I didn’t write ‘misogynistic’, which might have been clearer, because I don’t think it necessarily is.

I completely agree about the demonisation of social workers and irrational solutions being presented – which I also think serve to distract from questioning the actions of Owen and Barker.

‘Misogynist, racist, homophobic and xenophobic comments will be deleted.’ – maybe add ‘misandrist’ to that list, too?

#7 nah, real men can take it.

/me runs away

“Do we not want answers”?

The answers are as plain as the nose on your face, Lara – they are entirely predictable and will be playing out today in a town near you.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2009/aug/16/baby-p-family

You want us to be more angry with Own and Barker but aren’t these two damaged men simply adult examples of what baby P might have become had he not been killed?

I just don’t think I understand the argument here. You point out – rightly I think – that female abusers are condemned more roundly and more vehemently than men who commit similar crimes, that the media is obsessed with female child murderers like Myra Hindley, and has a ‘morbid fascination’ with Amanda Knox. And you think that this is evidence of misandry? Why isn’t it evidence of men being let of the hook?

As for Tracy Connelly being ‘humanised’ in a way that her partner and brother are not, I see something different I think, namely a tendency to suppose that she is not really an agent in her own right. “How could she have done this? She must have been controlled by men.” Etc.

I think you’re getting carried away – Connelly was the mother, not a live in boyfriend. She had a legal and moral responsibility to look after the child’s welfare and not to lie to social services when they asked her if she wanted help. It’s the horror and fascination as to how a woman could treat her own child this way that is the story here, not how an abusive violent manipulative man could abuse a small child; ibid. Karen Matthews, Victoria Climbie

The media was similarly fascinated by the cases of Sion Jenkins and John Hogan, both who were accused of killing their own children.

And personally, I think the coverage of Jason Owens that said “this man also raped a two year old girl” was far from glowing.

‘. . .her partner Steven Barker and his brother (and their lodger) Jason Owen have bafflingly played second fiddle in the ongoing media saga.’

Up to a point: I admit I have avoided reading any of this stuff in detail, but what i did read was excoriating about the men involved. As DHP says, the parent (whether male or female) is the core issue.

Clive James pointed out that the only people even a murderer like Tony Soprano could never kill were his children. No, the media focus is rightly on the mother. The scummy men are another matter, and their life in prison – and afterwards – will be hellish.

Isn’t there a perfectly good reason for being more shocked by violence committed by a good-looking woman than by a plain one? (I focus on this because no one else has.)

Do we find any form of violence excusable? Are we not, for example, less critical of theft by the destitute than we are of theft by the well-fed? Do we not excuse crowd behaviour (rioting) as a response to dictatorships that we would not sanction in democracies?

In other words, we have the notion of “gratuitous” violence – we particularly deplore violence committed by people who have other ways of achieving their goals, i.e. people who have alternative resources.

And we feel that good-looking women do have those alternative resources.

Many years ago, when there were only single-sex colleges at Oxford, the then Principal of Somerville attributed her students’ academic success (year after year) relative to that of the four other women’s colleges to her strict policy of never admitting a pretty girl.

I merely recount the story without saying yea or nay.

Lara, you raise some interesting points, enough to inspire me to write a reply; however before I publish it and link back to your article, I strongly urge you to run your text through a style checking tool. Even MS Word’s built in functionality would be able to help you spot such errors as “And it seems – [...] – which” etc., or “The outrage appropriated [...] are tantamount to none”. “Undeviating monsters” is also an odd construction, though I think I can see where you’re going with that one.

Agree with the poster above. She was the carer-the mother. But women also add to this. If they have a child they make it seem like they are mother theresa-big deal-, like they are holiier then thou for being put upon mums but then they don’t want to be insulted more when they do sh*t parenting?

Come on.

‘From drunken pub brawls to a mounting body count in Iraq – the papers on an almost daily basis feature coverage of acts of male perpetrated violence and abuse – be it against other men, women or children. Rarely, are levels of harried outrage equal to when a woman commits such acts.’

There’s a bit more to Iraq and Afghanistan than testosterone; and people have ceased to be shocked by street violence among men, that’s not misandry, that’s just weariness.

It’s the unexpected nature of violence perpetrated by women that inspires horror, just like the unexpectedness when people in positions of trust (Harold Shipman or numerous paedophile priests) commit horrific acts.

What is ironic about the all the original baby P coverage was that it was used mostly by the Right wing as a way of bashing those nasty liberals in the council with all their nasty liberal views. And then it turns out that the violent boyfriend was a Right wing brown shirt who was a member of the National Front.

That bit of the coverage has disappeared off the radar now.

Sally that’s rubbish. If anyone is to blame (And I accept the scary reality is that it was a systemic failure) then it is clearly the left. There are 3 factors

1) Moral relativism – never mind that someone isn’t fit to look after a fing gerbil, the left wing mantra is “we musn’t be judgemental” (unless of course we are talking about smoking, obesity, or climate change) we must let them have as many kids as they choose to and keep them in conditions that would lead to them being disallowed from adopting a cat.

2) Woolly, confused prioroties and a lack of leadership at Hackney council. They were the first council to refuse to employ smokers, are big on sustainable development, green transport, and the usual smorgasborg of self satisfied left wing causers, but apparently cannot protect children, even those who are at obvious risk of harm. Like practically all of local government, they have lost sight of what they are there for, have become politicised, are trying to do too much and are doing none of it well.

3) Social work training. As a refuge for lefties who screwed up their degrees, I accept there is little chance of social work training being reformed, but it needs to be. 1970s style wanna be marxist with a phd in political correctness are not the right people to be handling real problems. The job (and it is not a profession) has become politicised, beaucriatised and theoretical.

“Sally that’s rubbish. If anyone is to blame (And I accept the scary reality is that it was a systemic failure) then it is clearly the left. There are 3 factors”

Nope, there was just one factor……… and the Idiot troll still does not understand that the killer was a Right wing Brownshirt thug.

But that does not fit with the fantasy bullshit about how all lefties are soft on crime.

I’m with sally on this one. It goes to show the kind of nutters with anger management issues that groups like the NF and the BNP attract like moths to a flame.

As usual, Twat Munro talks utter shite.

Are the likes of Jon Gaunt, & those who scream bloody murder when children are taken away from their natural parents, on the left now? If Baby P had been taken into care, who would it have been that would have sat round talking bollocks about the “nanny state” & “political correctness gone mad”?

There is doubtless more than enough blame to be apportioned, though from what I can gather the vilification of the social workers & the Scum’s “petition” only made matters worse & attacked people who were doing a job sneering right-whingers like you wouldn’t dream of ever doing.

There should be a recognition, yes, that some people are simply unfit parents. This is why I am pro-choice. If Tracy Connolley had said she couldn’t cope & wanted an abortion, would anyone have thought it was a good idea to make her give birth to a child she didn’t want & couldn’t handle? I can think of no better way to stop the cycle of deprivation than by encouraging contraception & making abortion available if need be.

Those parents whose children are on the at-risk register should be obliged to present them at a neutral venue, weekly, where they can be medically assessed so the sort of injuries Baby P underwent can be detected. Social workers struggle to operate in what can be a physically intimidating environment.

You can’t just blame everything on earth on “the left” & cast around your stereotypes & think that’s a post. & why no reference to Islington, are you starting to lose your touch?

Matt, why do I get the impression that you’ll be turning up on another thread soon having a go at PC nanny state social workers for taking away an abused child whilst arguing that the social workers are having a witchunt against good traditional parents.

But you have to ask with all the problems in that area why the hell did the social service again make such a mistake, it’s happening all over the place as the social service hope and pray nothing happens it so poorly run so poorly manned the mistakes just go on and on.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2009/aug/19/teenage-motherhood

“Nope, there was just one factor……… and the Idiot troll still does not understand that the killer was a Right wing Brownshirt thug”.

So what ? Does that have any connection to what he did ? If he was a member of the SWP/Green Party would you make a causal link ? Would the press even mention it ?

Other morons above – newslafsh, not being enamoured of scocial workers does not make you a fascist. Social workers are just nulabour thought police, you’re just so brainwashed you can’t see it.

“But you have to ask with all the problems in that area why the hell did the social service again make such a mistake, it’s happening all over the place as the social service hope and pray nothing happens it so poorly run so poorly manned the mistakes just go on and on.”

Exactly – The left have spend so long telling everyone they know best they can’t, hard as they try, just shrug their shoulders, mutter about socio-economic depravation and walk away from responsibility when it all goes horribly wrong.

“There should be a recognition, yes, that some people are simply unfit parents. This is why I am pro-choice. If Tracy Connolley had said she couldn’t cope & wanted an abortion, would anyone have thought it was a good idea to make her give birth to a child she didn’t want & couldn’t handle? I can think of no better way to stop the cycle of deprivation than by encouraging contraception & making abortion available if need be”.

Well I can. Contraception is avaible on every high street, abortion is on demand. this same “education” solution has been trotted out since the 1970s. Do you honestly think anyone over the age of 16 doesn’t know what contraception is or where to get it ??? These people want to have kids, they are a meal ticket for life. why on earth would they use contraception/have an abortion ? Baby P wasn’t “a mistake” he had 3 siblings, and skewed, anti couple benefit system mean that if anyone reported her psycho boyfriend as living there she would have lost benefits. Your naivety about the real world would be funny if it weren’t so tragic.

Oh look, Twat Monro troll is getting his brownshirt knickers in a twist.

Nobody gives a flying toss what you think.

COBRA – why that link?

Lara, it is common knowledge that statistically the most dangerous man in a childs life is a step parent or new partner. Therefore, there is not much surprise when something like this happens. This particular live in boyfriend is obviously a mentalist of some sort – (so his political views are neither here nor there) so this is why the reporters I guess are trying to understand what leads a women to allow her own flesh and blood to suffer like that over such a protracted time and be so manipulative about covering it up.

Well said Matt Munro.

I’m going to resist the temptation to slag off the lefties who have made unkind comments about us folks who have a right of centre outlook.

All I will say is that the political leanings of Barker, Connelly and Owen are irrelivant, they are all evil scum who deserve nothing but hatred from all of us whether we are left wing or right wing.
As for the council and social workers. I think they have to shoulder their share of the blame, as they are paid a lot of money to minimise the risk of these tragedies happening, and I think it is so typical of the tick box culture we have these days that they failed to protect poor baby Peter. The conditions and brutality in that household should have been obvious to any human being and intervention should have happenned.
Common sense has been lost in the fog of political correctness we are all forced to exist in these days.

Yes of course you think their political leanings are irrelevant because it goes against the whole Right wing straw man argument. I.e. that it is all the fault of lefties,

When infact the murders were far right wing violent thugs.

“Common sense has been lost in the fog of political correctness we are all forced to exist in these days.”

And people like you would have been the first to whine about political correctness if Baby P had been taken away from his home.

Sally,

Excuse me if I’ve missed something here, but are you as certain about the political leanings of the mother as you are ofthe boyfriends?
Does it have any bearing upon how the child died?

Sally,

If you think that all people with a right wing outlook are violent thugs then that is your own problem, and yes I do think that the lefties need to take accountability for their contribution to the mess that exists in certain parts of our society.

Personally I would have no objection to baby Peter or others like him be taken away from the hell holes they are born into, often to screw more benefits from the system.
But I do find it ironic that the powers that be would never consider giving a child like him to foster parents who smoke, or who are obese or old. Political correctness!

Amanda Knox has not been convicted of murder. It is sexist to assume that she is guilty because she’s beautiful and in the media spotlight. That’s our fault, not hers. Everybody has the right to a trial. The story assumes her guilt.