Comments on: The Tories who want to cripple the NHS http://liberalconspiracy.org/2009/08/13/the-tories-who-want-to-cripple-the-nhs/ creating a new liberal-left force Sun, 21 Mar 2010 01:20:20 -0700 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.6 hourly 1 By: Daniel Hoffmann-Gill http://liberalconspiracy.org/2009/08/13/the-tories-who-want-to-cripple-the-nhs/#comment-58634 Daniel Hoffmann-Gill Sat, 15 Aug 2009 09:49:09 +0000 http://www.liberalconspiracy.org/?p=6860#comment-58634 Geordie-Tory: Is that the best you've got? Geordie-Tory:

Is that the best you’ve got?

]]> By: Borrowed from Liberal Conspricy read the site great post « Swinton South Liberal Democrats http://liberalconspiracy.org/2009/08/13/the-tories-who-want-to-cripple-the-nhs/#comment-58621 Borrowed from Liberal Conspricy read the site great post « Swinton South Liberal Democrats Sat, 15 Aug 2009 07:17:56 +0000 http://www.liberalconspiracy.org/?p=6860#comment-58621 [...] Hannan is a national disgrace » The different ways newspapers can make money » The Tories who want to cripple the NHS » Real Women – Really Patronising? LibCon [...] [...] Hannan is a national disgrace » The different ways newspapers can make money » The Tories who want to cripple the NHS » Real Women – Really Patronising? LibCon [...]

]]> By: the a&e charge nurse http://liberalconspiracy.org/2009/08/13/the-tories-who-want-to-cripple-the-nhs/#comment-58564 the a&e charge nurse Fri, 14 Aug 2009 17:23:18 +0000 http://www.liberalconspiracy.org/?p=6860#comment-58564 Thanks, ukliberty - yes, I never miss my daily dose of Dr Crippen. There's no doubt junior doctors are working fewer hours nowadays and on balance its a good thing, at least for them. Not that long ago the health of junior doctors suffered because of such demanding conditions while a certain percentage of errors were attributed to exhaustion. http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/doctors-death-fuels-row-on-hours-1369224.html http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-401670/Exhausted-junior-doctor-kills-patient-massive-overdose.html Junior docs do definitely work less but still far longer than their contracted hours. Thanks, ukliberty – yes, I never miss my daily dose of Dr Crippen.

There’s no doubt junior doctors are working fewer hours nowadays and on balance its a good thing, at least for them.

Not that long ago the health of junior doctors suffered because of such demanding conditions while a certain percentage of errors were attributed to exhaustion.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/doctors-death-fuels-row-on-hours-1369224.html
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-401670/Exhausted-junior-doctor-kills-patient-massive-overdose.html

Junior docs do definitely work less but still far longer than their contracted hours.

]]> By: ukliberty http://liberalconspiracy.org/2009/08/13/the-tories-who-want-to-cripple-the-nhs/#comment-58552 ukliberty Fri, 14 Aug 2009 16:09:07 +0000 http://www.liberalconspiracy.org/?p=6860#comment-58552 a&e charge nurse @ 165, in relation to your last two paragraphs, did you see <a href="http://nhsblogdoc.blogspot.com/2009/08/dangers-of-young-surgeons.html" rel="nofollow">this by John Crippen</a>? a&e charge nurse @ 165, in relation to your last two paragraphs, did you see this by John Crippen?

]]> By: the a&e charge nurse http://liberalconspiracy.org/2009/08/13/the-tories-who-want-to-cripple-the-nhs/#comment-58546 the a&e charge nurse Fri, 14 Aug 2009 15:40:12 +0000 http://www.liberalconspiracy.org/?p=6860#comment-58546 Well said, jb - but can I add to the list? What about staff time? 60% of nurses work an average of an additional six hours per week .... gratis (J Ball, RCN 'Managing to Work Differently', 2005). http://www.rcn.org.uk/newsevents/government/briefings/nurse_staffing_and_workforce_planning Mind you, the extra hours worked by junior doctors soon puts this unpaid work by nurses in the shade - even the EWTD will not stop some of them working TWICE the normal working week. Staff support the aspirations of the NHS, you see. Well said, jb – but can I add to the list?

What about staff time?

60% of nurses work an average of an additional six hours per week …. gratis
(J Ball, RCN ‘Managing to Work Differently’, 2005).
http://www.rcn.org.uk/newsevents/government/briefings/nurse_staffing_and_workforce_planning

Mind you, the extra hours worked by junior doctors soon puts this unpaid work by nurses in the shade – even the EWTD will not stop some of them working TWICE the normal working week.

Staff support the aspirations of the NHS, you see.

]]> By: Geordie-Tory http://liberalconspiracy.org/2009/08/13/the-tories-who-want-to-cripple-the-nhs/#comment-58539 Geordie-Tory Fri, 14 Aug 2009 15:19:40 +0000 http://www.liberalconspiracy.org/?p=6860#comment-58539 Neil: "Love the “bET YOU WON’T PRINT THIS COMMIES!!!!!!1111? line – pure spEak You’re bRanes green-inker." OK perhaps my comments were a little bit of a rant, but you think that this comment was "Green-Ink" material compared with the nerd-fest over whether or not Tonga was a member of the British Empire. But as a good leftie, your first instinct was to smear and denigrate me for making a comment in opposition to your views, at least you are all consistent. Keep the Red Flag flyin' bro'. Neil: “Love the “bET YOU WON’T PRINT THIS COMMIES!!!!!!1111? line – pure spEak You’re bRanes green-inker.”

OK perhaps my comments were a little bit of a rant, but you think that this comment was “Green-Ink” material compared with the nerd-fest over whether or not Tonga was a member of the British Empire.

But as a good leftie, your first instinct was to smear and denigrate me for making a comment in opposition to your views, at least you are all consistent.

Keep the Red Flag flyin’ bro’.

]]> By: jb http://liberalconspiracy.org/2009/08/13/the-tories-who-want-to-cripple-the-nhs/#comment-58532 jb Fri, 14 Aug 2009 14:37:34 +0000 http://www.liberalconspiracy.org/?p=6860#comment-58532 One factor which is always missed when debating the NHS, is the enormous number of people who volunteer their services free-of-charge. Up and down the country people are donating bone-marrow, women are donating eggs and drivers are giving their time to taxi elderly people to their destinations and,of course, the WI continue to provide retail services. The 'jewel in the crown' is The Blood Donor Service, in which people form a queue (some in their lunch hour) to freely give blood for no payment except a hot drink and biscuit. Any political party which disregards the financial savings (I doubt if people would volunteer to do this for healthcare PLC), and the altruistic actions based on citizenship, would be foolish indeed. One factor which is always missed when debating the NHS, is the enormous number of people who volunteer their services free-of-charge. Up and down the country people are donating bone-marrow, women are donating eggs and drivers are giving their time to taxi elderly people to their destinations and,of course, the WI continue to provide retail services. The ‘jewel in the crown’ is The Blood Donor Service, in which people form a queue (some in their lunch hour) to freely give blood for no payment except a hot drink and biscuit.
Any political party which disregards the financial savings (I doubt if people would volunteer to do this for healthcare PLC), and the altruistic actions based on citizenship, would be foolish indeed.

]]> By: Daniel Hoffmann-Gill http://liberalconspiracy.org/2009/08/13/the-tories-who-want-to-cripple-the-nhs/#comment-58522 Daniel Hoffmann-Gill Fri, 14 Aug 2009 13:58:37 +0000 http://www.liberalconspiracy.org/?p=6860#comment-58522 Bitch, it WAS formally a part of teh British Empire. Now you drop it. Bitch, it WAS formally a part of teh British Empire.

Now you drop it.

]]> By: ukliberty http://liberalconspiracy.org/2009/08/13/the-tories-who-want-to-cripple-the-nhs/#comment-58517 ukliberty Fri, 14 Aug 2009 13:47:35 +0000 http://www.liberalconspiracy.org/?p=6860#comment-58517 <blockquote>The same time it became OK to say that Tonga was not part of the British Empire.</blockquote>Jebus. He said it wasn't <b>formally</b> part of the Empire. You are arguing with something you've imagined. Will you not take your monomania elsewhere?

The same time it became OK to say that Tonga was not part of the British Empire.

Jebus. He said it wasn’t formally part of the Empire. You are arguing with something you’ve imagined. Will you not take your monomania elsewhere?

]]> By: Daniel Hoffmann-Gill http://liberalconspiracy.org/2009/08/13/the-tories-who-want-to-cripple-the-nhs/#comment-58502 Daniel Hoffmann-Gill Fri, 14 Aug 2009 12:47:15 +0000 http://www.liberalconspiracy.org/?p=6860#comment-58502 The same time it became OK to say that Tonga was not part of the British Empire. The same time it became OK to say that Tonga was not part of the British Empire.

]]> By: Neil http://liberalconspiracy.org/2009/08/13/the-tories-who-want-to-cripple-the-nhs/#comment-58501 Neil Fri, 14 Aug 2009 12:45:44 +0000 http://www.liberalconspiracy.org/?p=6860#comment-58501 "I’m going to take this opportunity to back away slowly, and talk to someone with rather better anger management." When did pop psychology become popular with tories? “I’m going to take this opportunity to back away slowly, and talk to someone with rather better anger management.”

When did pop psychology become popular with tories?

]]> By: Daniel Hoffmann-Gill http://liberalconspiracy.org/2009/08/13/the-tories-who-want-to-cripple-the-nhs/#comment-58491 Daniel Hoffmann-Gill Fri, 14 Aug 2009 12:14:31 +0000 http://www.liberalconspiracy.org/?p=6860#comment-58491 Tonga Tim: Thanks for reading my blog, I love you to Tonga Tim:

Thanks for reading my blog, I love you to

]]> By: Tim J http://liberalconspiracy.org/2009/08/13/the-tories-who-want-to-cripple-the-nhs/#comment-58490 Tim J Fri, 14 Aug 2009 12:13:13 +0000 http://www.liberalconspiracy.org/?p=6860#comment-58490 Shhh... Remember what you said on your site: "Having the last word doesn't mean you've won an argument, it just means you've had the last word." Shhh… Remember what you said on your site: “Having the last word doesn’t mean you’ve won an argument, it just means you’ve had the last word.”

]]> By: Daniel Hoffmann-Gill http://liberalconspiracy.org/2009/08/13/the-tories-who-want-to-cripple-the-nhs/#comment-58489 Daniel Hoffmann-Gill Fri, 14 Aug 2009 12:10:48 +0000 http://www.liberalconspiracy.org/?p=6860#comment-58489 I only do it because you really hate to admit you're wrong and I like prodding bruised egos. Tonga Tim is my new name for you. YEAH! I only do it because you really hate to admit you’re wrong and I like prodding bruised egos.

Tonga Tim is my new name for you.

YEAH!

]]> By: Tim J http://liberalconspiracy.org/2009/08/13/the-tories-who-want-to-cripple-the-nhs/#comment-58488 Tim J Fri, 14 Aug 2009 12:09:41 +0000 http://www.liberalconspiracy.org/?p=6860#comment-58488 <blockquote>I hate repeating myself</blockquote> Hmm. The evidence is against you on this one. But this has been a bit too much like getting into an argument with a drunken bore in a pub. I'm going to take this opportunity to back away slowly, and talk to someone with rather better anger management.

I hate repeating myself

Hmm. The evidence is against you on this one. But this has been a bit too much like getting into an argument with a drunken bore in a pub. I’m going to take this opportunity to back away slowly, and talk to someone with rather better anger management.

]]> By: Daniel Hoffmann-Gill http://liberalconspiracy.org/2009/08/13/the-tories-who-want-to-cripple-the-nhs/#comment-58486 Daniel Hoffmann-Gill Fri, 14 Aug 2009 12:00:47 +0000 http://www.liberalconspiracy.org/?p=6860#comment-58486 Mr. Hunt: I think due to how badly Labour is doing it will take far more than a twat MEP running his thick mouth off to lose the election but it is a start. Tim J: You still here? I hate repeating myself, BUT, to begin with, being a Tory you didn't negage with the topic, you just did some lovely LOOK OVER THERE comments, then when that didn't work you fudged on Hannan's connections to the Tories, then when that failed to conceaded that he said a stupid thing and that he will be bollocked for it, which he has, which is great. The rest is just flannel as after the Tonga incident your credibility is low. Mr. Hunt:

I think due to how badly Labour is doing it will take far more than a twat MEP running his thick mouth off to lose the election but it is a start.

Tim J:

You still here? I hate repeating myself, BUT, to begin with, being a Tory you didn’t negage with the topic, you just did some lovely LOOK OVER THERE comments, then when that didn’t work you fudged on Hannan’s connections to the Tories, then when that failed to conceaded that he said a stupid thing and that he will be bollocked for it, which he has, which is great.

The rest is just flannel as after the Tonga incident your credibility is low.

]]> By: Tim J http://liberalconspiracy.org/2009/08/13/the-tories-who-want-to-cripple-the-nhs/#comment-58478 Tim J Fri, 14 Aug 2009 11:41:38 +0000 http://www.liberalconspiracy.org/?p=6860#comment-58478 150 - Not quite. My first point was simply that it was ridiculous to blame Cameron for 'letting' Hannan go on US TV when he would neither have known about it in advance nor been able to prevent it in any case. Something which Tim Worstall, who has been a party press officer, confirmed. My second point was that, since Hannan was not speaking in any official Conservative capacity, his comments were not Conservative policy and were in fact contrary to it. As a result, if Cameron was asked about Hannan's comments, he should say that he disagreed with them, and that they weren't Conservative policy. Which he has now done. What, precisely, about this do you disagree with? 150 – Not quite. My first point was simply that it was ridiculous to blame Cameron for ‘letting’ Hannan go on US TV when he would neither have known about it in advance nor been able to prevent it in any case. Something which Tim Worstall, who has been a party press officer, confirmed.

My second point was that, since Hannan was not speaking in any official Conservative capacity, his comments were not Conservative policy and were in fact contrary to it. As a result, if Cameron was asked about Hannan’s comments, he should say that he disagreed with them, and that they weren’t Conservative policy. Which he has now done.

What, precisely, about this do you disagree with?

]]> By: Philip Hunt http://liberalconspiracy.org/2009/08/13/the-tories-who-want-to-cripple-the-nhs/#comment-58477 Philip Hunt Fri, 14 Aug 2009 11:39:30 +0000 http://www.liberalconspiracy.org/?p=6860#comment-58477 This is actually very stupid of them. The Tories pretty much have/had the election in the bag, but if they continue dissing the NHS, they won't have. This is actually very stupid of them. The Tories pretty much have/had the election in the bag, but if they continue dissing the NHS, they won’t have.

]]> By: Daniel Hoffmann-Gill http://liberalconspiracy.org/2009/08/13/the-tories-who-want-to-cripple-the-nhs/#comment-58475 Daniel Hoffmann-Gill Fri, 14 Aug 2009 11:36:57 +0000 http://www.liberalconspiracy.org/?p=6860#comment-58475 Oh and don't forget that Tonga was in the British Empire. HA HA HA! Oh and don’t forget that Tonga was in the British Empire.

HA HA HA!

]]> By: Daniel Hoffmann-Gill http://liberalconspiracy.org/2009/08/13/the-tories-who-want-to-cripple-the-nhs/#comment-58474 Daniel Hoffmann-Gill Fri, 14 Aug 2009 11:35:42 +0000 http://www.liberalconspiracy.org/?p=6860#comment-58474 As I've already pointed out, it took you until #64 to go that far, up until then you'd been engaging in LOOK OVER THERE and then defending the twat, before you had to concede that he is twat and he'll get a bollocking, which he has. And how you can say Cameron has not had to take responsibility...You are delusional rudeboy, the poor bastard has had to give a wee speech to the Hannan fool and send out an email. As I’ve already pointed out, it took you until #64 to go that far, up until then you’d been engaging in LOOK OVER THERE and then defending the twat, before you had to concede that he is twat and he’ll get a bollocking, which he has.

And how you can say Cameron has not had to take responsibility…You are delusional rudeboy, the poor bastard has had to give a wee speech to the Hannan fool and send out an email.

]]> By: Daniel Hoffmann-Gill http://liberalconspiracy.org/2009/08/13/the-tories-who-want-to-cripple-the-nhs/#comment-58473 Daniel Hoffmann-Gill Fri, 14 Aug 2009 11:32:17 +0000 http://www.liberalconspiracy.org/?p=6860#comment-58473 Tim J: It took you until #64 to even concede that Hannan is a dickwad and that he will be disowned, after you started from the lofty tower of LOOK OVER THERE and then moved to distance him from his own party before eventually getting with the program. HA HA! Great stuff, really top notch. The shifting sands of Tim J's Tory defense mechanisms... Tim J:

It took you until #64 to even concede that Hannan is a dickwad and that he will be disowned, after you started from the lofty tower of LOOK OVER THERE and then moved to distance him from his own party before eventually getting with the program.

HA HA!

Great stuff, really top notch. The shifting sands of Tim J’s Tory defense mechanisms…

]]> By: Tim J http://liberalconspiracy.org/2009/08/13/the-tories-who-want-to-cripple-the-nhs/#comment-58472 Tim J Fri, 14 Aug 2009 11:32:15 +0000 http://www.liberalconspiracy.org/?p=6860#comment-58472 <blockquote>#60: It’s not a matter of bias either incidentally. I wouldn’t expect Brown or Clegg to have to take responsibility for what their back benchers, MEPs or activists say. Well Cameron has had to take responsibility hasn’t he?</blockquote> No, he hasn't. He has specifically disowned them. Rather like I said he would: <blockquote>While, obviously, if the Tory leadership are asked about Hannan’s views on the NHS they should disown them (’we know what Daniel thinks about the NHS, and his views are not shared by the party leadership. The Conservatives value the NHS etc etc etc), that is not the same as saying that they should try to prevent him from stating them, nor that they have any degree of ownership over those views.</blockquote> As a matter of interest, do you actually read what anyone else writes?

#60: It’s not a matter of bias either incidentally. I wouldn’t expect Brown or Clegg to have to take responsibility for what their back benchers, MEPs or activists say.

Well Cameron has had to take responsibility hasn’t he?

No, he hasn’t. He has specifically disowned them. Rather like I said he would:

While, obviously, if the Tory leadership are asked about Hannan’s views on the NHS they should disown them (’we know what Daniel thinks about the NHS, and his views are not shared by the party leadership. The Conservatives value the NHS etc etc etc), that is not the same as saying that they should try to prevent him from stating them, nor that they have any degree of ownership over those views.

As a matter of interest, do you actually read what anyone else writes?

]]> By: Daniel Hoffmann-Gill http://liberalconspiracy.org/2009/08/13/the-tories-who-want-to-cripple-the-nhs/#comment-58470 Daniel Hoffmann-Gill Fri, 14 Aug 2009 11:29:16 +0000 http://www.liberalconspiracy.org/?p=6860#comment-58470 Tim J: #60: It’s not a matter of bias either incidentally. I wouldn’t expect Brown or Clegg to have to take responsibility for what their back benchers, MEPs or activists say. Well Cameron has had to take responsibility hasn't he? HA HA HA! Man, you're failing, you should've kept your head down clart instead of rearing back up in your EPIC TONGA FAIL moment. Tim J:

#60: It’s not a matter of bias either incidentally. I wouldn’t expect Brown or Clegg to have to take responsibility for what their back benchers, MEPs or activists say.

Well Cameron has had to take responsibility hasn’t he?

HA HA HA!

Man, you’re failing, you should’ve kept your head down clart instead of rearing back up in your EPIC TONGA FAIL moment.

]]> By: Daniel Hoffmann-Gill http://liberalconspiracy.org/2009/08/13/the-tories-who-want-to-cripple-the-nhs/#comment-58467 Daniel Hoffmann-Gill Fri, 14 Aug 2009 11:27:18 +0000 http://www.liberalconspiracy.org/?p=6860#comment-58467 Tim J: #55 And of course Dan Hannan’s appearance on Fox was about his personal opinions on healthcare. What on earth do you think it was? Well he got BOLLOCKED FOR 'EM! HA HA HA! Tim J:

#55 And of course Dan Hannan’s appearance on Fox was about his personal opinions on healthcare. What on earth do you think it was?

Well he got BOLLOCKED FOR ‘EM!

HA HA HA!

]]> By: Tim J http://liberalconspiracy.org/2009/08/13/the-tories-who-want-to-cripple-the-nhs/#comment-58466 Tim J Fri, 14 Aug 2009 11:26:24 +0000 http://www.liberalconspiracy.org/?p=6860#comment-58466 Just read comment 121 again, there's a dear. If it helps, try tracing a forefinger along the words. Or maybe ask a grown-up to read it out loud to you. If you still find it a struggle, try looking up 'de facto' and 'de jure'. Or, possibly, 'formally', though I did try and provide you with a definition in 121. Maybe next time I SHOULD WRITE IN CAPITALS. Just read comment 121 again, there’s a dear. If it helps, try tracing a forefinger along the words. Or maybe ask a grown-up to read it out loud to you. If you still find it a struggle, try looking up ‘de facto’ and ‘de jure’. Or, possibly, ‘formally’, though I did try and provide you with a definition in 121.

Maybe next time I SHOULD WRITE IN CAPITALS.

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