Smearing opponents as anti-semitic


3:32 pm - July 17th 2009

by Ben White    


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A favourite tactic of die-hard defenders of Israel is to smear critics of the country’s policies through guilt by association, lies, and decontextualised quotations.

I have come to know this latter strategy quite well. Based on short extracts, or even a single sentence, from two out of the 100 plus articles I’ve published, I have been accused of ‘understanding anti-semitism’ and ‘defending’ Iranian President Ahmadinejad’s Holocaust denial.

The first claim, that of ‘understanding’ anti-semitism, comes from a short piece I wrote in 2002. It was, in fact, my second published article, written when I was 18 years old. I am happy to admit that it is not very good, but, as others have noted, there is “nothing” there that “amounts to a defence or promotion of anti-Semitism”.

The article was trying to look at causes for contemporary anti-semitism. Funnily enough, whenever the smear-merchants cite this piece, they miss out one of the reasons I propose, namely the “history of anti-Semitism” in European culture “that has been, and probably still is, embedded in collective consciousness”. I note that “its roots can be traced, at least to some extent, to the shameful teachings of many in the Church”.

But decontextualisation is what it is all about, as this particular case demonstrates. If someone seriously wanted to know what I thought about anti-semitism, they could look at other examples from my published writing. Then they would find when I condemned seeing Jews in general as complicit with Israeli actions as “inexcusably hateful and stupid”, affirming that there is no “contradiction between opposing anti-Semitism and supporting equal rights for Palestinians”.

They might also read the ‘JustPeace60’ declaration, which I co-wrote and organised with my friend and film-maker Philip Rizk for the anniversary of Israel’s creation last year, and its recognition that “for many, this landmark powerfully symbolises the Jewish people’s ability to defy the power of hatred so destructively embodied in the Nazi Holocaust”.

If they took the time to actually read my book, they would find where I stress that “racism that targets Jews, like all forms of racism, must be condemned and resisted”, and that “to describe Israel in terms of apartheid is not to dehumanise Israelis”. Rather, “the struggle for a just peace in Palestine/Israel emerges from insisting on the humanity of both Palestinians and Israelis”. Most of the latter, I wrote, “have been born in the land that they have every right to call home”.

The second claim made against me is that I have defended Ahmadinejad’s Holocaust denial. This is again based on one article, written in January 2006. The piece was critiquing the mainstream analysis of some recent remarks by Ahmadinejad, and the politicised context in which they were being framed. But I make no bones about it – Ahmadinejad is either a Holocaust denier himself, or cowardly encourages those who are (and probably both).

As Dana Goldstein observed earlier this year, Ahmadinejad wraps “his Holocaust-denial in a series of legitimate criticisms of present-day Israeli policy”, a disturbing “mixing of fiction and fact”. Ahmadinejad’s anti-semitism is morally despicable, intellectually vacuous, and of no benefit to the people he purports to be supporting (or rather, exploiting), the Palestinians. He is also, of course, ruthless in his approach to dissent, and has the blood of his own people on his hands (as I noted in both that 2006 article, and more recently, this interview with an Iranian journalist).

Israel’s apologists don’t actually want to have any meaningful discussions – just slanging matches and absurd accusations. They prefer often bizarre personal attacks, and most concerning of all, the cry of anti-semitism. In claiming that someone who wants equality for Palestinians is motivated by ‘Jew-hatred’, it devalues the term anti-semitism, and risks damaging the fight against its very real contemporary manifestations.

* * * * * * *

But then that doesn’t seem a problem for some people, if it’s all in the name of shielding Israel and its denial of basic Palestinian rights from serious scrutiny. I discovered this afresh in recent weeks, as my book was launched in the UK at two events in London.

At the first meeting, held in the Houses of Parliament, one man repeatedly shouted during my presentation, deliberately disrupting proceedings. I later discovered this man was Jonathan Hoffman, co-vice chair of the UK’s Zionist Federation. He had form apparently. The second event was organised last week by the charity War on Want, who themselves support Palestinians on the ground. They banned Hoffman from the event, having heard of his disruptive behaviour in other previous meetings.

Ludicrously (though almost predictably), this was immediately spun as an ‘anti-semitic’ ban, a feeble charge some have even repeated. The meeting was attended by Jews who came to support Israel, and Jews who campaign for Palestinian rights. For some, however, the event itself was deemed anti-semitic.

When it comes to protecting Israel, self-proclaimed champions of human rights and opponents of ‘hate speech’ are happy to let all kinds of vicious rhetoric pass. On the American Jewish Committee’s ‘Z-Word’ blog, you can read comments (which all have to be moderated) like:

And I wonder whether White sees himself as the reincarnation of Goebbels?
White deliberately incites hatred against Jews.
Ben White is now the most disgusting example of the fresh faced antisemitism seen creeping up in Europe again.

Closer to home, Harry’s Place posted guest pieces by the likes of the Jonathan Hoffman, attracting similarly hateful comments. At theend of one post is this contribution from ‘666’ – “It’s time we took a lead from Group 43. Fight fire with fire”. The 43 Group was set up after World War II to physically disrupt and attack British fascists; as one veteran put it, “we made a lot of people A&E cases”.

Thankfully, most people are not convinced by exaggerated smears and vindictive bullying – in fact, as people commented to me after the Houses of Parliament event, those who come to shout their defence of Israel are their own worst enemy.

Sadly, it is to be expected from some – but what’s a shame is the position of apparent liberals on both sides of the Atlantic – Progressive Except for Palestine. As the penny drops for more and more people, it seems the backlash is set to worsen.

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About the author
This is a guest article. Ben White is a freelance journalist who has written for Guardian's CIF, Electronic Intifada and others. His book 'Israeli Apartheid: A Beginner's Guide' (Pluto Press), was published in 2009.
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Story Filed Under: Blog ,Foreign affairs ,Media ,Race relations ,Realpolitik

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Reader comments


1. Shatterface

There are genuine anti-Semites out there, real Islamophobes and general racists of all stripes but the words have been blunted by over-uses. Even if you protest, you’re unconsciously racist or in denial.

Harry’s Place in particular is home to a fanatical bunch of anti-semitism sniffers; if they’ve ‘outed’ you just bare in mind this puts you on a level with a pizza topping.

As a Jew I’ve been called anti-Semitic and then if they discover I’m a Jew they either call me a classic self-loathing Jew or other nobbers decide to call me anti-Semitic names.

How cool is that?

I’ve been called an Uncle Tom – isn’t it great? 🙂

I’ve been called a ponce.

5. Shatterface

I once posted a comment here about Israel’s over-reaction to Palestinian rocket attacks launched from civilian areas, and another comment on Harry’s Place which was almost identical, word for word, only to be told I was anti-Palestinian here and anti-Semitic there.

It’s possible I hate both, unconsciously, but I don’t think I’m that deep.

Shatterface, you’ve made my weekend.

I’m glad I don’t have your weekend…;-)

Loved the last comment, very deep. I also read both this blog and the excellent Harry’s Place, both crawling with name callers of course; but this blog seems very one sided in support of the Hamas killers, torturers and racists. I keep on wondering if it is really a liberal blog or some kind of trick, especially when I read you also want to make the laws against prostitution even worse. Strange kind of liberals who support torturers and stupid laws that put everyone in danger, can’t work it out.

Oh good grief Schmook, you have got to be kidding!

First off you connect Hamas with killers, torturers and rapists, a connection that could easily be made, I’m ashamed to say, to the IDF.

Then you do broad stoke idiocy and label people here supporters of torture and stupid laws, when I get the feeling that you support torture and stupid laws.

Can this kind of tosh not be deleted?

Jonathan Hoffman states that when he left the launch meeting for Ben White’s book, he was told “the Nazis should have finished the job.” This cannot possibly be construed as antisemitism, it is simply anti-Zionism and anyone who says otherwise must be an apologist for the State of Israel, international Zionism and George Bush – the world’s number one terrorist who took his orders from Ariel Sharon,his master.

I’ve been called “who?

The Counterpunch article is a bit clumsy in distinguishing – or, indeed, failing to distinguish – between intellectual understanding – “we’ve come to understand that Israeli actions and incidents of anti-semitism correlate somewhat” – and empathetic understanding – “it’s understandable that people react to Israeli actions with antisemitism“*. However, it is, IMHO, just that – a bit clumsy – and Ben clearly stated that anti-semitism is “wrong” and “misguided“.

Hope that he’ll reply to the Hoffman/Mendelsohn tag-team, though.

[*] Hypothetical examples.

“I keep on wondering if it is really a liberal blog or some kind of trick…”

You’re mistaken – this is a blog for murderers and prostitution-prohibiters.

Mikey, can I borrow your tin foil hat please, mine broke?

“This cannot possibly be construed as antisemitism, it is simply anti-Zionism and anyone who says otherwise must be an apologist for the State of Israel, international Zionism and George Bush – the world’s number one terrorist who took his orders from Ariel Sharon,his master.”

Effective satire should – y’know – satirise things, rather than making them up. That comment is utterly obscene, but unless it sprang from the lips of Ben White it’s not a particular reflection on him.

So, Ben, why did you include a Roger Garaudy essay on Zionism in your ‘select bibliography’ (p.162) of Israeli Apartheid Guide?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roger_Garaudy

he was told “the Nazis should have finished the job.” This cannot possibly be construed as antisemitism

Do let us know if Ben said that Mikey – in which case it would be relevant. Otherwise of course it’s a poor attempt at libelling someone by trying to imply he said it. Let’s hear it.

but this blog seems very one sided in support of the Hamas killers, torturers and racists

Wow! That’s the first time we’ve been accused of siding with racists! Is the author actually going to offer links, or like other tin-foil hat wearers, just going to bitch and then run off?

danial – yes hamas really are racists (though maybe not rapists as you miss quoted me). Yes the same could be said of the IDF; true liberals and friendly nice people should not support either set of criminals, and they don’t.

Sunny Hundal,

The quote from Jonathan Hoffman appeared in the Harry’s Place guest post that he had written and was linked to by Ben White in his article.

Seismic

Regarding Roger Garaudy. In 1995 he wrote the book, The Founding Myths of Israeli Politics, in which he denied that the Holocaust occurred, saying that Jews under Nazi control died of starvation and disease, not poison gas. In 1998 he was fined the equivalent of approximately $40,000 in a French court for “racial defamation” stemming from these claims.

Garaudy is clearly an impeccable source for someone such as Ben White to use.

sorry, forgot to point out the almost instant call to censor my comment, lucky i am not in gaza as I expect I would be dead by now.

“That’s the first time we’ve been accused of siding with racists! Is the author actually going to offer links, or like other tin-foil hat wearers, just going to bitch and then run off?”

Typical objectively pro-racist soft-lineism. >:(

Still no links to offer eh schmook?

sorry, forgot to point out the almost instant call to censor my comment, lucky i am not in gaza as I expect I would be dead by now.

Can you get in ‘moral relativism’ in there somewhere too? I feel that your one-liners aren’t fully formed according to the DecentPedia. Perhaps that will come later?

The essay White recommends is ‘Religious and Historical Precepts of Zionism’, from Journal of Palestine Studies, Vol. VI, No. 2, Winter 1977. There is no Holocaust denial in this essay, in fact Garaudy sees Zionists as having taken their blueprint from Hitler and the Nazis, inverting antisemitism and the Nuremberg laws to create a Jewish state. Garaudy, in the essay White recommends, cites Koestler who invented the theory that Jews are really Khazars, and Israel Shahak.

However, it is no longer 1977, but 2009, and Garaudy’s Holocaust denial should mean that White does not treat Garaudy as a serious author, any more than White would respect Ahmadinejad as a serious commentator, in the light of Ahmadinejad’s Holocaust denial and antisemitism. Given that this is a “beginner’s guide”, is it really appropriate to present Holocaust deniers as historians to newcomers to the Israel-Palestine debate? And given White’s welcome and fearsome condemnation of Ahmadinejad’s mixture of fact and fiction, will there be a similar condemnation of Garaudy’s?

Well I hope no-one is going to suggest that Hamas are not racists.

And we certainly know that Sunny does not side with Hamas.

I’m not sure about Ben White though – perhaps he could let us know?

I didn’t used to think Ben White was an anti-semite. Then i read his piece where he says that he can understand why some people are antisemitic , and i started to be concerned. Then i read his comments denying Ahmadinejad wasn’t denying the holocaust. ANd guess what , i think White is an anti-semite. Not because of his criticisms of Israel but because of these two major issues.

If it looks like a duck , if it waddles like a duck , if it quack like a duck………

Sorry should read “Ahmadenijad was denying the holocaust”

Seismic – Would that be Roger Garaudy the holocaust denier ?

“As a Jew I’ve been called anti-Semitic and then if they discover I’m a Jew they either call me a classic self-loathing Jew or other nobbers decide to call me anti-Semitic names.

How cool is that?”

DAniel – who called you anti-semitic , who did they represent and what did you say for them to call you anti-semitic ?

Israel’s apologists don’t actually want to have any meaningful discussions

Nor do you it seems, or why was Jonathan Hoffman banned from your War on Want book signing?

Yes – here are details of Garaudy’s trial, from the European Court of Human Rights:
http://www.echr.coe.int/eng/Press/2003/july/DecisionGaraudyvFrance4July2003.htm

I’ve been called an “apologist for Israel” for complaining about Jenny Tonge (very active in PSC) talking about zionist control of the money markets , and also for complaining about John Wight of Socialist Unity posting a link to the holocaust denial site “CODOH”.

Oh and also for complaining about one of the two trustees of Viva Palestina referring to the Protocols of the Elders of Zion.

Ben White
“the article was trying to look at causes for contemporary anti-semitism. Funnily enough, whenever the smear-merchants cite this piece, they miss out one of the reasons I propose, namely the “history of anti-Semitism” in European culture “that has been, and probably still is, embedded in collective consciousness”. I note that “its roots can be traced, at least to some extent, to the shameful teachings of many in the Church”.”

Yep , and in your consciousness as well (though not embedded , more on the surface).

sunny, I thought the tin hat insult was for conspiracy freaks, but anyway i don’t wear any hat. I just tried to do a search for actual examples but it does not seem to be working at the moment. To attempt to answer you without the links; the over all attitude of your blog which i have read since it started, is “Israeli bad, Palestinian good”. This results in you seeming to support the Hamas racists, although I am sure you do not support racism. The trouble is this unquestioning side taking is actually supporting some very anti-liberal people who would probably have the lot of you rounded up and shot if they could.

So schmook – you can’t actually think of any specific examples of when we’ve supported Hamas or said they’re a nice bunch of guys. But you don’t like the fact that we highlight Israeli aggression towards Palestinians – so the only thing you could logically come up with was: “this blog seems very one sided in support of the Hamas killers”

But of course, you don’t have any evidence to support that assertion but you’ve not read anything to that extent either. Your only feeble response is to say that “we’re supporting some very anti-liberal people” without actually (once again) showing any evidence.

Of course, one would think you’re intelligent enough to understand that there is a difference between Palestinians and Hamas. But given your thought process above, that doesn’t look like a good assumption to make.

In fact, you sound rather like Bennett above – who’s suddenly arrived to spam us with stinging logical leaps like: “if it quacks like a duck…” – without seeing how Ben responds to those points.

In fact, it really confirms the point made in the piece – that the most ardent supporters of Israel here don’t actually want a debate but just want to throw accusation and smears. Thanks for confirming it.

“In fact, it really confirms the point made in the piece – that the most ardent supporters of Israel here don’t actually want a debate but just want to throw accusation and smears. Thanks for confirming it.”

Except Sunny , i’m against the occupation , against the settlements and for 2 states along The Green Line.

How’s the New Generation Network going Sunny ?

Sunny , you just don’t take antisemitism seriously when it’s from people like Ben or people who you want to appeal to in your quest to be some kind of opinion former.

sonny that is really not fair, i am very happy to debate, but you seem to want to hurl insults which makes it difficult. For proof of that I point to your last two comments. I am not an ardent supporter of israel, I just support their right to exist as much as Palestinians. My point is that you and your blog, like so many on the left (of which I feel a part, but a bit like George Orwell) have a very black and white defalt position on the issue which is worrying. You are happy to go on about how evil Israel is, but never mention (correct me if i am wrong) the hideous crimes being committed by the Palestinians, often against their own people.

readers might find this link relevant to the debate

http://bit.ly/wgrDx

People should read this. A detailed paper on anti-semitism which doesn’t make apologies for the Israeli government or its actions.
http://www.yale.edu/yiisa/workingpaper/hirsh/index.htm

sonny, every time i do a search for hamas on LC I get this: Parse error: syntax error, unexpected T_ENDWHILE in /home/sunnyh/lc.org/wp-content/themes/ThirdConspiracy/search.php on line 28 . I have tried refreshing and going to main home page.

But really my point is about general tone; the constant churning out of a line that supports racists, torturers and murders, even when you don’t, which means you do not know what you are doing. Let me help you.

Stanley: War? Who are we at war with?
Gabriel: Anyone who impinges on America’s freedom. Terrorist states, Stanley. Someone must bring their war to them. They bomb a church, we bomb ten. They hijack a plane, we take out an airport. They execute American tourists, we tactically nuke an entire city. Our job is to make terrorism so horrific that it becomes unthinkable to attack Americans.

– Swordfish (2001)

And on the conflation of Israel with the holocaust and Nazis

http://www.eisca.eu/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/nazicard.pdf

42. Truthseeker

Ben White

For some reason you forgot to link to this deconstruction of your book, let me remedy this

http://blog.z-word.com/2009/07/lies-damn-lies-and-the-apartheid-analogy/

Thank you Ben for your commitment to justice and peace for Jewish-Israelis, Palestinian-Israelis and Palestinians.

We will look back on this period as a dark time and think how could we have let that happen.

Thank you for trying to build empathy for others who are living in horrendous situtaions today. For your outspokenness that never again shall there be a Shoah and for the call to bring reasoned and compassionate debate to the Palestinian and Israeli conflict.

http://jewishpeaceactivists.blogspot.com/

God this is a depressing thread to read. . . . .

It never ceases to amaze me how easily some folk on the internet chuck around accusations of the most repellent forms of racism. I realise that there’s a common misconception that the online world is a floating, consequence-free fairyland, but it really isn’t.

I’ll take the Kenny Dalgeish position on Ben White and his heinous racism here – maybes aye, maybes naw – and stress that I’m speaking only for myself and no-one else. Me, if I suddenly found myself on the receiving end of a barrage of blog posts and articles condemning me as a fervent racist propagandist based on the strength of, to pick a random example, one quote and a few internet links… Some extremely serious and sustained accusations by a broad group of individuals that I was driven by the filthiest and most pernicious hatreds, which would remain online forever for anyone who ever meets me, knows me or who might wish to employ me at a later date to read and judge me on…

Well, I wouldn’t waste any time at all posting rebuttals. I’d steam straight in with the hairiest, scariest law suits I could put together and force the people pushing this stuff to prove every word of it in court. I’d want to see exactly what a judge would make of the standard If you screw up your eyes and look at it like this, your honour… innuendo as a legal argument.

If there was anything less than a full retraction offered, I’d instruct lawyers to blast the defendants’ bank accounts into space dust with legal warheads until there was nothing left of their finances but clicking, radioactive cockroaches, and I’d consider it a good and moral act, of great service to the public discourse.

This stuff isn’t a game, people. Sooner or later somebody – from whatever side of the political aisle – is going to launch an extended and highly damaging whispering campaign about the supposedly racist views of some guy with a temper just as short as mine, and when they do they’re going to be swiftly and repeatedly impaled up the bahookie on the great rhino horn of the law.

I’d rather it wasn’t the case, but I think it really will take that to happen before people realise that libel laws exist for other reasons than merely protecting the hides of dodgy Saudis. They’re there to protect people from the type of constant, unstoppable smear campaigns that are sadly all too prevalent on UK blogs.

I hope I am not decontextualising, but, Ben, you say

Israel’s apologists don’t actually want to have any meaningful discussions – just slanging matches and absurd accusations.

But then proceed to state that

The meeting was attended by Jews who came to support Israel, and Jews who campaign for Palestinian rights.

Setting up a false dychotomy by which to be Jewish and to support Israel is to be against Palestinian rights.

Never mind for the monent the hyperbole and questionable veracity of the statement that all Israeli “apologists” (a loaded term right there) are opposed to meaningful discussion; why polarise the issue by giving your Jewish/Israeli readers a limited rhetorical choice between wholeheartedly agreeing with you, and being lumped in with the accusation-flinging, debate-dodging “aplogists”?

Antisemitism in this context is a concept devalued no more, nor less, than apertheid. It’s all rhetorical mud slinging designed to polarise and inflame rather than mediate and support. I virulently disagree with carelessly flung accusations of antisemitism, but that does not incline me to your equally cavalier attitude towards the discourse around the Israel/Palestine problem. In that sense, both you and the antisemitism-sniffers are fair game, and a plague on both your houses.

37 “sonny that is really not fair,”

Shorter schmook……….”I come on here to shit everywhere and when you call me on it I whine”

Flying Rodent – I think Ben WHite should sue because i don’t think he’ll win and it will do him even more damge.

This is a guy who has written over a hundred articles , and a book. He’s a nasty piece of work and if he wants to spread hate , an extreme position on Palestine / israel (and his position is extreme) , make apologies for Ahmadinejad’s holocaust denial , then he has to face that people will criticise him. And quite right too.

Anti-semites always complain about being smeared by their opponents and White is no exception.

“. But I make no bones about it – Ahmadinejad is either a Holocaust denier himself, or cowardly encourages those who are (and probably both).”

Shame you didn’t write that in your article.

People would do well to read White’s article that he wrote for Palestine Chronicle. The link to it no longer works but Modernity has found it on google cache and you can read it here.

http://modernityblog.wordpress.com/2009/07/12/one-final-one/

Shame you didn’t write that in your article.

Yeah well Bennett – it’s not obvious from any of your postings tonight that you care for the plight of Palestinians so one can only assume you’re a raging anti-Muslim bigot who wants to keep them in a massive open-air prison all day long.

And frankly I wouldn’t take any lessons from Seisemic on anti-semitism either – he spends ages writing articles praising Patrick Sookhdeo – the guy who cavorts around with Robert Spencer, thinks Muslims are taking over the world and is a racist lunatic. And then when I called him on it he claims he didn’t know anything about all that. Yeah… yeah. I believe that.

This attempt to smear people just because they don’t say everything you want them to say is most hilarious. You’re just exposing yourself to be a twat really. And throwing around the word anti-semite like it grows on trees. Well done for such an intelligent discussion.

I think Ben WHite should sue because i don’t think he’ll win and it will do him even more damge.

I have very little legal expertise, but I strongly believe that any high-traffic blogger attempting to prove the allegations about Ben White that have appeared on their blogs (and, importantly, comment threads) in court would be almost instantly slapped with an order awarding him 30% of their total earnings for the next fifteen years. I think it would happen so fast that it would make their heads spin, but I’ll happily concede the point if someone with relevant knowledge contradicts me.

Again, whether or not White – or anyone else, for that matter – holds racist views is irrelevant. The only thing that matters is whether you can prove the allegations in court, and I’ll note that the usual Look at this quote… Hmm, suspicious standard that applies on blogs is very unlikely to cut the mustard.

Finally, I’d like to repeat that this is my personal opinion. This site is called Liberal Conspiracy after all, and the fact that I take a dim view of inkblot racism-detection sessions shouldn’t reflect on the site’s hosts.

Not read Ben’s books so I’ll keep my comments to his observation that criticism of Israeli gov. action is often equated to anti-semitism.

The Israeli gov. themselves, and correct me if anybody knows otherwise, seem careful to avoid the phrase. it is usually their supporters who sling the mud.

The same sort of linguistic modification is being used with the word “denier”. “Holocaust denier” is thrown at anyone who questions any aspect of the deaths of Jews in the second world war. I can’t understand this. If I were to question the details of the events and consequences of the raid on Desden in the same war I doubt I would be accused of “allied victory denial”. I also doubt that if I were to question the numbers of unionist, communists, gypsies and homosexuals who died in he same period (as opposed to saying that none died) that I would find myself on the receiving end of flames from associated groups.

We are seeing the same trend with what used to be called global warming, but is now only referred to as climate change. question the data, methods, conclusions and you are a “climate change denier” and therefore at least of questionable sanity and maybe an enemy of life as we know it.

This is all dangerous stuff as it polarises the debate which leads to further conflict.

Sunny “Yeah well Bennett – it’s not obvious from any of your postings tonight that you care for the plight of Palestinians so one can only assume you’re a raging anti-Muslim bigot who wants to keep them in a massive open-air prison all day long.”

Sunny don’t be such an idiot. I posted earlier on :

“Except Sunny , i’m against the occupation , against the settlements and for 2 states along The Green Line.”

SO Sunny , why don’t you take a look at what White wrote and give your opinion of it.

Sunny , try and engage with what people have written and not your misperceptions. And Sunny , try reading some of the original articles.

Then come back and carry on with your childish and false insults.

Except Sunny , i’m against the occupation , against the settlements and for 2 states along The Green Line.

But that’s not good enough is it? Anyone can be against the occupation. That would simply mean you’re sane and want international law to be enforced. Where’s your list or articles criticising the Israeli govt? Where’s the list of article criticising the settlements? Did you write about the recent news of Israeli soldiers using Palestinians as shields?
http://edition.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/meast/07/15/israel.gaza.report/index.html

And please don’t patronise me by using the phrase “childish insults” when I’m merely playing your game.

Sunny ” You’re just exposing yourself to be a twat really. And throwing around the word anti-semite like it grows on trees. Well done for such an intelligent discussion.”

And try not to use sexist words when you come out with your pathetic insults.

And again Sunny, instead of making personal abusive comments against people , try and engage with the actual examples given. Though i guess calling somebody a “tw**t” is about as intellectual as you get.

Sunny “Did you write about the recent news of Israeli soldiers using Palestinians as shields?”

No Sunny , but i didn’t write an article denying it or apologising for it , while Ben White wrote an article Ahmadinejad’s holocaust denial.

So again Sunny , have you read WHite’s article in defense of Ahmadinejad , and if so what did you think of it ?

Here’s the link Sunny. If you click on it you’ll be able to scroll down and read it. That way it’ll be a first for you actually engaging with what has been written.

“And please don’t patronise me by using the phrase “childish insults” when I’m merely playing your game.”

Whatever.

“And frankly I wouldn’t take any lessons from Seisemic on anti-semitism either – he spends ages writing articles praising Patrick Sookhdeo – the guy who cavorts around with Robert Spencer, thinks Muslims are taking over the world and is a racist lunatic. And then when I called him on it he claims he didn’t know anything about all that. Yeah… yeah. I believe that.”

What reason do you have not to believe that I didn’t know Sookhdeo had shared a platform with Spencer? If you really believe that ‘attempts to smear people’ is ‘exposing yourself to be a twat really’ then why have you tried to do exactly that to some of the commenters on this thread, rather than engage with the arguments?

Come on, Sunny, if you read my blog there’s plenty about the BNP’s vicar Robert West who wants the expulsion of Muslims first and foremost, Jobbik’s priest Lorant Hegedus Jr, LAS leader Alain Sorel’s pro-Serbian fascism, Forza Nuova’s Giulio Tam who calls for a new Crusade against Muslims, Roberto Fiore of the International Third Positionists who concocted Christian fascist theology which is now expressed as ‘keep Europe Christian, kick out the Muslims,’ Jobbik & Forza Nuova’s deliberate racism against Turkey in the EU, etc, etc.

Guess you must have missed that.

Seismic, it’s amusing you say I’m not engaging in the arguments since the main thing you, Bennett and others have done is parrot the equivalent of “if it walks like a duck…” etc. If you think that’s intelligent discussion then you’re having a laugh. It’s as believable as your feeble excuse that you write articles about Sookhdeo and praise him and ask people to support him while not even doing cursory research on his activities. Yeah, I really believe that.

If you really wanted to engage in the arguments, you’d respond to Ben’s explanations of what he wrote. One guy gets banned from disrupting a book reading and suddenly its seen as a massive conspiracy against Jews. And then a whole avalanche of blog posts follow where you’ve all decided for yourself that he’s a raging nutjob. That’s what you call reasoned debate? It is as hilarious as Schmook running here breathlessly and accusing us of all being Hamas supporters without actually reading anything to support the case. Typical, innit?

Sunny engage with the arguments – don’t be silly, he’s above all that.

Debate, yes. That’s why I come here.
If you just shout at each other, boring.
Without reasoned argument this site increasingly looks like a bunch of media types bitching at each other.

Please note that I exclude the obvious shills and trolls from the equation.

Not that there’s much to add to comment no.62, but just to come back on one point you make:

“If you really wanted to engage in the arguments, you’d respond to Ben’s explanations of what he wrote”

I have responded to what Ben wrote, in quite some detail, here:
http://tiny.cc/sVTfL

64. gav pearce

Schmook and cjjjc did not the Mossad setup Hamas to undermine the more secular Fatah.
Is Mossad anti semetic, I must know

Sunny. I posted the link to an article which has Ben’s piece on Ahmadinejad and i asked you what you thought of it. SO please stop trying to avoid the question. Here it is again. Please read it and give your opinion on it.

I’ve read it , i think Ben is making excuses for Ahmadinejad’s holocaust denial. Also he i no way (as i’ve already said ) condemns Ahmadenijad’s holocaust denial. So Sunny , please read it and give your opinion.

67. Col. Richard Hindrance (Mrs)

Schmook? What a schmuck!

68. Edwin Moore

Excellent post Shatterface

Am on the road, so not having many opportunities to get online…

The response from some on this thread has been quite instructive. I could almost have included in my article something along the lines of – “And for a further example of distracting smears and condemnathons browse the comments below”.

In the piece above, I spelled out clearly what I think about anti-semitism – and actually, what was already on the record in that regard – as well as Ahmadinejad.

Those who invest/waste so much time and effort in manufacturing allegations about Israel’s critics, intentionally disingenuously, are unsurprisingly reluctant to simply accept this – so respond with an outpouring of feeble association-based moralising. This is because they don’t actually care what I really think about anti-semitism at all; it’s all just a desperate scrambling to insinuate and smear.

Some people though just don’t seem to have read the article, like…

cjcjc, #28
To repeat from my piece – “[War on Want] banned Hoffman from the event, having heard of his disruptive behaviour in other previous meetings.”

Bennett – #too many to mention

Ben – You wrote an article denying Ahmadinejad’s holocaust denial. You got caught out and now you’re just back-pedalling. It’s fortunate that most Palestinians don’t take your extremist and rejectionist position on the Palestine / Israel question , nor on Ahmadenijad’s holocaust denial.

Ben – You wrote an article denying Ahmadinejad’s holocaust denial. You got caught out and now you’re just back-pedalling.

This is quite amusing. You’re more interested in condemning than actually accepting that someone you thought was previously excusing Ahmedinijad accepts the guy’s anti-semitism. A normal person would just accept that the other person has clarified the situation or changed their mind. But you’re not interested in that – you just want to run a crusade of smearing.

Sunny , i have asked you twice to read the article yourself and then give your opinion of it. But you won’t because you won’t criticize Ben.

sonny, your search still does not work. I think publishing this post is a good example of how you support Hamas, plus some of your own comments. Correct me if i am wrong, but this post seems to be by someone who is a fairly renowned Israel hater and truth denier (I did not even know who he was when I made my first comment). Apparently he ran a meeting in the Houses of Parliament to sell his book where people jeered when someone introduced themselves to ask a question with a Jewish name. And he said nothing to stop it? Is this really true? Or is that Mossad propaganda?

Even if that is all a series of lies, which i accept could be true considering the turgid nature of this debate, he has certainly concentrated on attacking Israel, using incredibly exaggerated language, to the exclusion of any other information. I am sure he wants to help, but he is not helping peace, he is helping Hamas. As you support and publish his views, therefore so do you, seemingly without realising it.

I greatly admire the Palestinian people and for personal reasons, believe me please, everyday I feel their suffering, that is why it makes me upset to see people like you, who I know also care, blindly crank out the anti Israel line to the exclusion of any other truth. It really does not help very much, if at all. You just end up in the biased propaganda box. There are many Palestinians who want peace; Hamas are their jailers. The block to peace does not just come from israel (though it may well be true that israel contributed to the creation of hamas).

A few years ago I would have been right with you; it’s all Israel’s fault, terrible crimes etc etc but I realized that is not the way to peace. The way to peace is the way that makes everyone a winner. As long as you support the demonization of one side you will never be part of the peace process. We need conflict resolution here not more hurling of insults, (missiles and bombs), but you seem to want to concentrate on insults.

In Africa there is a common form of conflict resolution; it is called forgiveness, even for the most grievous crimes. It helps the victims. Nelson Mandela springs to mind. Thats what we need, not more slings and arrows.

Personally I think we should start a peace process with this comments tread! You have not been following your own “tight comments policy aimed at fostering constructive debate” with me, which does not help. I can take it, but it would be nice to sort this out, because there are some good points being made in these comments, all the best, schmoo

@75: You’re asking Sunny to comment on an article. If he doesn’t comment in exactly the way you desire (i.e. incontrovertible proof of extreme anti-Semitism on Mr. White’s part, let’s burn him at the stake, etc.), you’ll call Sunny an anti-Semite. Of course, if he did say that he’d be avoiding the very subtleties of position that the article is discussing, but then you don’t seem very interested in such complexities.

Some are trying to prove, by argument or insinuation, that Mr. White is an anti-Semite. That is a powerful accusation, requiring Mr. White’s belief to be proven beyond all reasonable doubt. I have read every blog and article linked from this thread, and have yet to see such evidence. If “Bennett” or others would like to convince me, then please do, avoiding further repetitions of links I’ve already had the misfortune to read.

However, while a bit of character assassination always feels good, it rather misses the point. Mr. White’s article above uses himself as an example, but he is not the subject of the article. It draws attention to the unfortunate reality that there are people trying to do their best for a particular part of what we call the Middle-East, who, through no fault of their own beliefs, acquire the term “anti-Semite”. This is an unfortunate act by those who throw the term around without foundation, cheapening its value in a world which has experienced true antisemitism, and destroying the lives of people who’s only failure was to disagree with conventional wisdom on the “Palestinian problem”.

If those in this thread trying to ‘out’ Mr. White as anti-Semitic succeed, that will not make the above problem disappear. If their attempt fails, they merely prove the existence of the problem. Either way, the personal attacks on Mr. White do nothing to move the discussion forward.

Schmook@17: I don’t buy your definition of liberal or friendly nice people. And you confuse censoring with taking out the trash. Also, it’s clear that you’re a bit of a tit, along with the Bennett boy, aminly because you’ve accused Sunny of all kinds of things and then had no evidence but kept banging on anyway.

cj@23: dismissing Hamas as just racists is not useful, they are much more than that and more importantly, they have a mandate, whether we like it or not.

Bennett@27: I’m not linking to the discussions because that may re-ignite them, I called anti-semitic because I have a bad habit of taking Zionist rants and replacing the word Arab or Muslim or Palestinian with the word Jew and making them see that their flawed, racist world view serves no one, whether Jew or Gentile. And then when I confess my ancestry I get called a “classic self-loathing Jew” which I always wonder why classic slips in there, as if the Jew throwing the insult also acknowledgesa racist stereotype in the process of doing so.

You behave like one of those twonks, paid for by some Zionist organisation, to go aorund and hassle message boards and forums or blogs with tedious postings. It’s bloody embarassing.

Conor@45: indeed it is, full of a lot of bollocks and hot air by very odd characters indeed.

Apparently he ran a meeting in the Houses of Parliament to sell his book where people jeered when someone introduced themselves to ask a question with a Jewish name. And he said nothing to stop it? Is this really true?

Occam’s razor, given the general respect for truth shown by Decentists and Israel apologists over the years, strongly suggests a two-letter answer to your last question.

Kentron ” You’re asking Sunny to comment on an article. If he doesn’t comment in exactly the way you desire (i.e. incontrovertible proof of extreme anti-Semitism on Mr. White’s part, let’s burn him at the stake, etc.), you’ll call Sunny an anti-Semite. Of course, if he did say that he’d be avoiding the very subtleties of position that the article is discussing, but then you don’t seem very interested in such complexities”

Again you avoid looking at the actual facts , the facts being what White has written. So instead you claim i will call Sunny an antisemite. I don’t think that Sunny is an antisemite. I do think Ben White is one because of his aoplogies for a holoicaust denier and for his understanding of why some people are antisemitic , and his use of false quotes. So you need to criticise me for what i say and not what you hope i’ll say. I’ll admit i don’t like Sunny’s abusive and dismissive manner but i know he’s not an antisemite because of what he’s written in the past.

The reason Sunny won’t comment on Ben White’s is because he most probably disagrees with it. Instead of engaging with what White says you accuse me of character assassination.

You say you “have read every blog and article linked from this thread, and have yet to see such evidence” So have you read White’s article as given on this link ?

http://modernityblog.wordpress.com/2009/07/12/one-final-one/.

Daniel “You behave like one of those twonks, paid for by some Zionist organisation, to go aorund and hassle message boards and forums or blogs with tedious postings. It’s bloody embarassing.”

Right , so i object to somebody who denies Ahmadinejad’s holocaust denial and yuou’re embarassed. And then you use the old trick of implying that i’m being paid by some zionist organisation. And you’re embarassed.

You couldn’t make it up.

Daniel “Also, it’s clear that you’re a bit of a tit, along with the Bennett boy,”

Go and do your homework , child.

I do think Ben White is [an antisemite] because of his aoplogies for a holoicaust denier and for his understanding of why some people are antisemitic

Chris Langham made some excellent TV shows, and many paedophiles were themselves abused when young. Under your ‘logic’, that assertion means that I’m a paedophile.

Have you considered a career in witch-detection?

Daniel , from the profile on your blog

” Lots of fights, dead best friends and anger management since then.”

Obviously with your childish name-calling, the anger management didn’t work.

John B “Chris Langham made some excellent TV shows, and many paedophiles were themselves abused when young. Under your ‘logic’, that assertion means that I’m a paedophile.”

You judge Chris Langham for what he downloaded , in the same way judge Ben White for what he wrote in his article. Here’s the article , do you think he is denying that Ahmadinejad was a holocaust denier ?

http://modernityblog.wordpress.com/2009/07/12/one-final-one/.

The avoidance to actually look at the facts and discuss them is unbelievable.

@80: I understand why some people are anti-Semitic. I understand why some people are anti-Islamic, anti-immigrant, anti-black, anti-white, anti-American, anti-drugs, anti-police, anti-British, anti-Irish, anti-GM, anti-scientist, anti-religious, anti-space, anti-progress, anti-tradition, anti-monarchy, anti-up and anti-down. If “understanding why someone is prejudiced” is the same as holding that prejudice, I must hate just about every group there is, including hating myself ten times over.

“You say you “have read every blog and article linked from this thread, and have yet to see such evidence” So have you read White’s article as given on this link ?”

If you’re in full command of the English language, you might realise that I’ve already answered that question. You have so far posted that link a total of five times. Please, use this as an opportunity to post it a sixth.

Mindbogglingly, as I was writing that comment it was rendered out of date. Please read the final paragraph of comment #85 as:

If you’re in full command of the English language, you might realise that I’ve already answered that question. You have so far posted that link a total of six times. Please, use this as an opportunity to post it a seventh.

Bennett:

John B says it well, you’re too black and white with your thinking, you fail to see grey where the vast raft of actual life exists. Anyone with a modicum of intelligence can underastand why someone might be anti-semitic, that doesn’t make them bigots or evil does it now?

I’ve read the original article, that you keep linking too like an oddly autistic child, it’s an interesting one and I find nothing offensive in it, it’s ideas and suggestions that challenge me but challenge is all good, helps focus the mind.

You could do with that.

You could also do with understanding a wee bit about anger management, it focuses it to where it needs to go, ie: you, you plum.

” that you keep linking too like an oddly autistic child, ”

You’re sick.

Daniel Hoffmann-Gill you wrote:

“that you keep linking too like an oddly autistic child, “

I wasn’t going to comment on this thread, but bringing autism into the debate is a new low.

Bennett:

And you’re funny and now, wonderfully, ducking the issue.

Modernity:

You’ve stayed out because you’ve nothing to bring to the debate, you may regret that as the people who are pushing your views are quite bad at doing it. As for being sick and a new low, may I just ask you to come down off your high horse just for sec and slum it with the rest of us.

Cool, now you’re down here I’ll tell you what I think is sick and a new low, smearing someone an anti-Semite who clearly is not one and by doing so dis-respecting the term itself, which needs to be utilised sparingly and correctly for those that truely are.

This thread is like the gaza/israel border; missiles and bombs flying back and forth. There won’t be peace this way. I was challenged to a debate, but nobody came to talk, just people with rockets and guns.

Daniel Hoffmann-Gill you wrote:

“You’ve stayed out because you’ve nothing to bring to the debate, you may regret that as the people who are pushing your views are quite bad at doing it.”

No, not really. I have posted extensively on this topic.

I would be happy to have a civil discussion on this issue, but not with you.

I would suggest this piece is worth reading, “Ben White recommends Roger Garaudy essay in ‘Israeli Apartheid Guide’” from Seismic Shock, http://seismicshock.wordpress.com/2009/07/17/ben-white-recommends-roger-garaudy-essay-in-%e2%80%98israeli-apartheid-guide%e2%80%99/

I was challenged to a debate, but nobody came to talk, just people with rockets and guns.

schmook – please don’t try and scrub history and pretend you’re some peacemaker now. Your stupidity is plain to see if someone scrolls up, and see you turning up accusing us of being Hamas supporters and racists without actually having a shred of evidence. Is that how you make peace? I think we’re better off without your peacemaking skills thanks. Especially on this topic where you really no nothing.

And there’s little reason to listen Seismic either – given his propensity to do little research on topics he claims to know lots about. It’s funny that he wants to hold up others to a higher standard that he subjects himself too. Given that there’s a whole bunch of people here who refer to everything someone has written ever – why should I take seriously anything written by Seismic or in fact even on the Harry’s Place blog? Both have published glowingly about Patrick Sookhdeo… the latter has written glowingly about Melanie Phillips before they realised she went off the deep end. And now there’s a cheap attempt to smear someone’s opinions you don’t like as anti-semitic. Somehow that’s not “a new low”. I suppose calling someone racist is by the by these days on the internet.

Sunny, the slur mongers are ducking out, if you have any more trouble round these parts with being being labelled anti-Semites you should bring me in as your super-Jew substitute off the bench of reason.

Seriously, I prefer to save the term anti-Semite for when it is really needed, rather than aiming it at people offering challenging but open thoughts and feelings on a complex issue.

Another worthwhile article is Petra Marquardt-Bigman’s at Jpost.

http://cgis.jpost.com/Blogs/warpedmirror/entry/the_israeli_apartheid_gospel_posted

I believe this covers much of the above:

“…

Perhaps Ben White really doesn’t understand why people accuse him of antisemitic sentiments, and perhaps he really doesn’t understand that it is quite hard to explain how an intelligent young man with an excellent university education would peddle the most simple-minded views about Israel and Zionism and still claim that all he is doing is criticizing Israel’s policies.

And perhaps he really hasn’t noticed that he complains so often about “decontextualisation” when he is criticized or when the Palestinians appear in an unfavorable light, but somehow, when he writes about Israel and Zionism, “decontextualisation” is the name of his game…”

[my emphasis]

Daniel – nobody’s ducking out , just not going to lower myself to the level of somebody as low as you , calling people “a tit” , comparing them to an autistic child etc.

You have serious problems Daniel in communicating with people , but i guess from your need to take anger management courses you knew this already.

One last point .

Daniel said to Sunny “if you have any more trouble round these parts with being being labelled anti-Semites you should bring me in as your super-Jew substitute off the bench of reason.”

Sunny , if you throw him a biscuit he’ll also perform a little dance !

Modernity: I read that post you linked to and not sure how you think that’s a catch-all? It’s an alright bit of writing but is based on some sweeping conclusions from false premises but then, so is much of this ‘debate’.

Bennett: fine, you call it not lowering yourself, I call it ducking out cuz you’ve nowt to add and you’re chicken. Each to their own, oh and you’ve already tried to knock the anger management thing, didn’t work first time and not gonna’s work by repeating it. Lovely.

And to quote you: “Sunny , if you throw him a biscuit he’ll also perform a little dance !”

I out you as an anti-semite, using the classic old insult of Jews as subhuman dogs…

96. organic cheeseboard

this thread is a car crash but my word, there is some awfully poor writing trying to back up accusations of antisemitism. not least that j-post blog (how depressing, that a crappy rag like the j-post won’t even let you into its print edition):

it is quite hard to explain how an intelligent young man with an excellent university education would peddle the most simple-minded views about Israel and Zionism and still claim that all he is doing is criticizing Israel’s policies.

well, they’re not actually that simple-minded – that’s rather in the eye of the beholder, and this beholder seems to have made their mind up in advance. that ‘still claim that all he is doing’ is a rather nasty sleight of hand, shifting from ‘simple opinions’ to an underhand accusation of there being an ulterior motive to criticism of policies. and what do we have here:

his agenda arguably doesn’t reflect primarily a concern for the Palestinian plight, but rather a fierce determination to demonize Israel

hmm, ‘arguably’ indeed. In fact there’s no proof, relaly, that he exhibits either of the things listed, this is just poor quality speculation presented as fact, with no evidence whatsoever. And even more sleight of hand:

If the Cambridge literature graduate had bothered to consult even the most basic information on the question if Jews consider themselves a “race,” he would have found out after just reading a few lines on a site like “Judaism 101” that this is a very thorny issue.

is that it? it actually is! dear god, awful, awful stuff. is this meant to be taken seriously as analysis? ‘it’s a thorny issue’? judaism 101 states explicitly that jewishness is not a race! did the author if THIS piece even check her sources? but then again, that site isn’t exactly authoritative, in fact it is not really reliable at all.

Would White accept the ultimately racist notion that the actions of some members of a group somehow provide ?reasons? for prejudice and discrimination against the group as a whole?

note, of course, that the ‘reasons’ White identifies are in no way endorsed by the man himself – but the author of this piece clearly implies that they are, as the above demonstrates.

I don’t need to go on. this is yet another example of someone using deeply questionable extrapolations, dodgy sleight of hand and references to external sources (eg zeidan) who don’t actually do what the author claims, but hey, who cares, because the claim is there.

if this is what passes for good writing in the eyes of modernityblog – well, the mind boggles.

White makes a point about Jews as a “race”, the provided link shows there is MUCH debate on the topic:

http://www.jewfaq.org/judaism.htm

“Are Jews a Race?

“In the 1980s, the United States Supreme Court ruled that Jews are a race, at least for purposes of certain anti-discrimination laws. Their reasoning: at the time these laws were passed, people routinely spoke of the “Jewish race” or the “Italian race” as well as the “Negro race,” so that is what the legislators intended to protect.

But many Jews were deeply offended by that decision, offended by any hint that Jews could be considered a race. The idea of Jews as a race brings to mind nightmarish visions of Nazi Germany, where Jews were declared to be not just a race, but an inferior race that had to be rounded up into ghettos and exterminated like vermin.

But setting aside the emotional issues, Jews are clearly not a race.

Race is a genetic distinction, and refers to people with shared ancestry and shared genetic traits. You can’t change your race; it’s in your DNA. I could never become black or Asian no matter how much I might want to.

Common ancestry is not required to be a Jew. Many Jews worldwide share common ancestry, as shown by genetic research; however, you can be a Jew without sharing this common ancestry, for example, by converting. Thus, although I could never become black or Asian, blacks and Asians have become Jews (Sammy Davis Jr. and Connie Chung).”

Thus, the point from accepted and so, White should have chosen his words with greater care, as you might reasonably expect from an Oxbridge English graduate, to do otherwise is to show sloppy research and subjective thinking.

Again, White is making a particular point and with a few minutes research on the web it can be shown to be a less clear cut issue than he portrays.

But setting aside the emotional issues, Jews are clearly not a race.

Hey, I tried explaining this to the people at Spectator magazine not long ago, and James Forsyth was adamant Jews were a race and Jews within his family considered themselves as a race. So it was good enough for him.

So frankly the fact there’c confusion over this issue isn’t anything new.

“So frankly the fact there’c confusion over this issue isn’t anything new.”

My point exactly.

So it follows that IF, you were venturing down this line of argument that you might take extra care?

Or at least acknowledge the diversity of opinions?

Not to do so shows clumsy thinking.

Or at least acknowledge the diversity of opinions?

Not to do so shows clumsy thinking.

I’m not sure about extra care – since both sides claim to being right. I’ve written a few times about it too, especially with regards to Sikhs (also defined legally as a race). But it doesn’t follow that if someone doesn’t take the “care” you want them to, then it’s necessarily a malicious motive. I think there are far more pernicious writers out there.

“James Forsyth was adamant Jews were a race and Jews within his family considered themselves as a race. So it was good enough for him.”

So are Christians a race?

Are Muslims a race?

Are non believers a race?

Just another example of how stupid The Spectator has become.

“I’m not sure about extra care – since both sides claim to being right. “

If you put yourself forward as having some form of expertise, then it logically follows that you might take extra care in the field of your chosen endeavours.

White suggests he is a specialist in the Middle East, thus it follows that he should be sensitive to the issues pertaining to the people of the Middle East that includes all of the ethnic minorities, Palestinians as well as Jews.

If, however, he blunders in, without doing the proper research, thinking through the arguments and being diligent, then people might rightly questioned his *methodology.*

And in questioning his methodology they may suggest that the product of his labours is probably not worth a read. This is the point with Ben White’s book.

You’ll notice I’m not questioning his motives, but his methods and what he actually *does*. There is a distinction.

“James Forsyth was adamant Jews were a race and Jews within his family considered themselves as a race. So it was good enough for him.”

Jews aren’t a race. Many Jews share a history , language (eg Eastern European Jews and yiddish) , and for many Jews a religion.

But they’re not a race. There’s many different Jewish people – black Jews , brown Jews , Mizrachi Jews , Askenazi Jews , Latinos , etc – lots of different characteristics with regards to race.

It was the end of the 19th century and the early 20th century when eugenics and the question of race became popular. It’s a dangerous subject. The Nazis believed that Jews were a race , Arnold Lees head of the Imperial Fascist League used to measure the width of the head of his members to try and detect those who might be “Jewish” in racial terms.

Race relations law is a different matter , Jews / Judaism , Muslims / Islam , Sikhs / Sikhism , Hindus / Hunduism can face discrimination to varying degrees – race relations legislation is there to try and combat bigotry and discrimination. But it doesn’t mean the above groups or sub-groups are a race.

Sorry i meant Ladinos , not Latinos.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ladino

Racism the great human experience.

http://curlymorris.wordpress.com/

106. organic cheeseboard

But setting aside the emotional issues, Jews are clearly not a race.

But this is just bollocks! modernity claims that the issue is vexed, as the author of the jpost blog piece did, but in evidence of the ‘vexed issue’ they both post from dodgy online resources which state unequivocally that Jewishness is not a race!

And if it’s not to do with shared ancestry – as both resources claim – then why should Israel, the ‘jewish state’, be so interested in expanding into the west Bank? Why shouldn’t they just cede East Jerusalem, instead of trying everything they can to hold onto it?

It’s an awful lot to do with shared ancestry. and thus the ‘definitely not a race’ thing doesn’t really hold up.

if the issue is so vexed then why should those who insist on it also cite websites which are totally unequivocal?

also – the idea that reading an untrustworthy website counts as ‘proper research’ in modernity’s eyes says it all.

organic cheeseboard:

Well said, on all fronts, I also note how the ‘are the Jews a race’ diversion means that Modernity and Bennett can retreat from unworkable positions and do a grand: HEY! LOOK OVER THERE! routine.

Sunny,

I don’t think you or some of your more recent posters actually appreciate how people are terribly sensitive on these issues, and how the above exchange from your posters does little to convince them that they are genuine or arguing in good faith.

If, like White, your posters are intent on arguing that Jews believe in an “ideology of racial supremacy “ then the onus is on them to prove that argument.

That’s the way argumentation works, you make an argument, you provide evidence you draw a conclusion.

So Sunny, if your erratic posters wish to make the case, then let us see if they can, and what conclusions we should draw from it.

But no one here is arguing that Jews believe in an “ideology of racial supremacy “. The argument is whether Jews should be considered a “race”. One does not follow from the other.

Andrew Adams, you wrote:

“But no one here is arguing that Jews believe in an “ideology of racial supremacy “. “

Andrew, please, please make an effort to read the provided link to Petra MB’s critique, understand her arguments, what follows from that and the counter case:

http://cgis.jpost.com/Blogs/warpedmirror/entry/the_israeli_apartheid_gospel_posted

“What is sure is that when it comes to antisemitism,

White thinks that “reason” number one is, unsurprisingly, “the state of Israel, its ideology of racial supremacy and its subsequent crimes committed against the Palestinians. It is because Zionists have always sought to equate their colonial project with Judaism that some misguidedly respond to what they see on their televisions with attacks on Jews or Jewish property.”

These few lines illustrate why White has been repeatedly suspected of antisemitism, and they also illustrate why he apparently doesn’t quite understand the reason for such accusations.

To begin with, White seems to believe that if he says Israel has an “ideology of racial supremacy,” he is stating an obvious fact, and this of course implies that he believes that Jews define themselves as a “race”

… Indeed, White also relies on this notion in order to justify his claim that Israel is guilty of practicing “apartheid.”

If the Cambridge literature graduate had bothered to consult even the most basic information on the question if Jews consider themselves a “race,” he would have found out after just reading a few lines on a site like “Judaism 101″ that this is a very thorny issue. ”

[My emphasis, I have highlight the key parts].

@modernity

“White makes a point about Jews as a “race”, the provided link shows there is MUCH debate on the topic…”

This is taken from the Jpost blog piece:

“White seems to believe that if he says Israel has an “ideology of racial supremacy,” he is stating an obvious fact, and this of course implies that he believes that Jews define themselves as a “race”… Indeed, White also relies on this notion in order to justify his claim that Israel is guilty of practicing “apartheid.” ”

So the funny thing is that this discussion about Jewishness and race comes from the claim on the Jpost blog that I believe “Jews define themselves as a ‘race'”. Actually, I’m describing how the Israeli state has chosen to incorporate ‘Jews as a race’ into aspects of legislation and state identity. I myself have not made any simplistic declarations about this indeed “thorny issue”.

“comes from the claim on the Jpost blog that I believe “Jews define themselves as a ‘race'”.”

Er, no, it comes from your claim that there is an “ideology of racial supremacy ” amongst Israelis, and presumably you mean Jewish Israelis.

Now to believe in “racial supremacy” you first have to believe in races.

Not only that, but that your particular “race” is superior from others. One follows from the other.

But as pointed out, many Jews argue that they are NOT a race, as shown in the links, etc.

So to contend a VERY controversial point without reference to evidence or material to back up that particular claim is sloppy thinking, compounded by inadequate research.

That is why.

Modernity, I see you’ve taken to the Bennett tact of constantly linking to articles we’ve read and have made clear are, to be blunt, a bag of bollocks.

The fact of the matter is, quite a few of us feel that Ben is not anti-Semitic and although presents challenging and complex arguments, it is better to be challenged and to step one’s game up than to fall back on dangerous and tired cries of anti-Semitism.

As for this being a sensitive issue, indeed it is but people need to toughen up so that we are able to take on difficult and hard questions, rather than shirk them like cowards, as Ben has and face them head-on and not shy away from complex or difficult answers that challenge our own personal prejudice and ideals.

Unless we wish to remain stuck that is.

Daniel ” I also note how the ‘are the Jews a race’ diversion means that Modernity and Bennett can retreat from unworkable positions and do a grand: HEY! LOOK OVER THERE! routine.”

Not really Daniel , i just saw the comments on the thread by Sunny , Modernity and others and posted a related comment.

Still it’s good to see you’ve stopped accusing me of being like “an autistic child” and calling me a “tit”.

That’s because Bennett you’re doing a good job of not acting like the aforementioned terms of reference, quite simply because you’re not saying anything and you’re stopped perpetuating myths.

Well done that man!

Modernity,

I have read PMB’s piece. She says

In any case, White proceeds to list “a number of reasons” for antisemitism – which of course means that racism against other groups, like blacks or Muslims, could also be understood as having “reasons”… So would White accept the notion that the attacks of 9/11 provide a “reason” for anti-Muslim sentiments?

Would White accept the ultimately racist notion that the actions of some members of a group somehow provide ?reasons? for prejudice and discrimination against the group as a whole?

It seems obvious to me that she is specifically referring to antisemitism as a kind of racism and accusing Ben White of harbouring attitudes towards Jews which would be considered racist if applied to other groups. Now regardless of whether one agrees with her interpretation of Ben’s work I would have though that if someone is accusing a person of having racist attitudes towards Jews then that itself suggests that Jews can be considered a “race”.

That’s not to say the Jewish identity can described as exclusively a racial one – it is obviously more complex than that. I’ve read the article at Judaism 101 and I’m rather convinced by the idea of Jews as a kind of extended family connected by a number of factors. But surely the shared ancestry of most modern Jews is an essential part of that identity – certainly as organic cheeseboard suggests it is used by Zionists to justify Jews having a claim over the land that now forms the state of Israel. Surely the expression “antisemitism” itself is a reference to the ethnic roots of the Jewish people and I don’t see why it is less meaningful to refer to Jews as an ethnic group than, say, Roma or Kurds.

I’m certainly not convinced by the objection which PMB raises to the notion of Jews as a race. She accuses Ben White of suggesting that Israel has an “ideology of racial supremacy” and yes, logically that implies that Jews are a race. Now I can certainly understand that such a suggestion would cause great offence to many Jews but ISTM that the offending word here is “supremacy” rather than “racial”. I accept that given the history of racist persecution of Jews they would be particularly sensitive to suggestions that they guilty of racial persecution themselves, but ultimately if the accusation is of Israel asserting Jewish supremacy over Palestinians then that is a serious accusation whether you define Jewishness on racial, religious, cultural or other grounds.

Daniel – I haven’t perpetuated any myths. I asked Sunny to read the piece by White in which White denied that Ahmadeinjad was a holocaust denier. Sunny refused to comment and then you came in with your pathetic insults.

The fact is that White is being criticised for what he writes , not for his support for Palestinian rights. There are many people who act in solidarity with the Palestinians who don’t slip into antisemitism. White , the antisemite is not one of them.

Bennett love, you’re talking out your arse, we’ve read the post you kept linking to and I for one don’t interpetet as you do. Drop it, seriously, you have to clock the difference between your opinion on it and others.

“She accuses Ben White of suggesting that Israel has an “ideology of racial supremacy” “

She does not ACCUSE him of anything, that’s what he actually wrote.

So Andrew, if he wrote it then don’t you think he actually believes it?

Or does Ben White write things that he doesn’t believe?

Well?

Read Ben White in more detail:

“I was somewhat startled by this, since I do not consider myself an anti-Semite, yet I can also understand why some are. There are, in fact, a number of reasons. One is the state of Israel, its ideology of racial supremacy and its subsequent crimes committed against the Palestinians. It is because Zionists have always sought to equate their colonial project with Judaism that some misguidedly respond to what they see on their televisions with attacks on Jews or Jewish property. “

http://www.counterpunch.org/white0617.html

Modernity,

Yes, Ben White did say that so I’m sure he must have meant it. My argument was not about what Ben White does or doesn’t believe though, it was about the objection to the notion of Jews as a “race”.

I give up.

Daniel : “Bennett love , you’re talking out of your arse”

You couldn’t make it up.

Ben
Forgive if I missed it, but can you please explain whether and why you consider Roger Garuady to be a credible source? Or the variouspeople whom I amalused in my Z-Word piece?
And how that fake Ben-Gurion quote got inot your book despite your familairity with Righteous Victims?

Sorry should be ‘analysed’ not ‘amalused’

Also, are no liberals here at Liberal Conspiracy concerned about Ben White repeatedly quoting from Christian theologians who argue that Jews can’t have their own country because God doesn’t like them any more?

This is a shame: Hoffman and Mendelsohn made, what seemed to be, some pretty reasonable points, but this thread’s descended into a weird forest of pointed fingers.

Modernity disputes White’s previous assertion that “the state of Israel” has an “ideology of racial supremacy” by pointing to Jews who are “offended by any hint that Jews could be considered a race“. However, the ideology of a state may be distinct from that of [some of] its citizens.

He/she then suggests that “White makes a point about Jews as a “race”” – no, he didn’t, he asserted that the state of Israel has an “ideology of racial supremacy” (seven years ago, as well, in a piece he admits was “not very good“, but…oh, never mind…).

Seismic now asks: “are no liberals here at Liberal Conspiracy concerned about Ben White repeatedly quoting from Christian theologians who argue that Jews can’t have their own country because God doesn’t like them any more?”. Eh? This hasn’t even been brought up. I know that half the internet’s studiously detailing Ben White in theory and practice, but not all of us are quite so well-versed…

BenSix,

I am a bloke, and no need to dance around the issues.

The point is fairly simple, White contends certain issues, but to make those points you would normally have to provide some substantive evidence. He doesn’t.

Various people have analysed his views, what he’s actually said. And the conclusions are not good.

White seems to think (by the inclusion of him in the book) that Roger Garaudy, well-known Holocaust denier, is an authoritative source on Israel.

Normally, I wouldn’t want to belabour this point, but it is fairly obvious that someone who becomes a Holocaust denier is unlikely to have a charitable or an unbiased opinion of Jews.

Need I go on?

But setting aside the emotional issues, Jews are clearly not a race.

Jews are a race under Englishandwelsh law (not sure how the various race discrimination acts apply to Scotland). The offence of incitement to racial hatred was specifically coded to ensure that antisemitic hatred was included, and indeed it’s been the focus of a large proportion of prosecutions under that legislation.

…of blood libellists and other actual antisemites, not people who try and analyse the words of mad foreign leaders and/or criticise the actions of Israel’s government, I should add.

@131: “I am a bloke, and no need to dance around the issues.”

This thread seems to have included quite a few prejudices so far. Let’s not add sexism to the list.

“Various people have analysed his views, what he’s actually said. And the conclusions are not good.”

Some people have said “I think he’s an anti-Semite” and some people have said “I don’t think he’s an anti-Semite.” Where’s the definitive conclusion, unless of course you’re using “the conclusion” as a synonym for “a conclusion I agree with”?

131. Ben White's watch
132. Ben White's watch
133. Ben White's watch

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1246443861877&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull
– on general British, rather English, antisemitism, fascism and racist hysteria vis-a-vis Israel, and Jews, as the author clearly suggests

Ben White’s Watch:

You seem to think that posting articles already posted, as well as other ones not posted will win the argument, not so, all they do is paint a further picture of a swath of people that can’t stand any criticism of Israel and Zionism.

Modernity:

Hello lover! Right, comment 123 is exactly the kind of comment this thread has been full of, link to a blog post or write it in bold, the things you point out (and I’m going to shout this because you don’t seem to listen) DO NOT MAKE BEN WHITE AN ANTI-SEMITE.

Clear? Good.

Seismic:

Kentron has you on the bloke line.

John B and BenSix have it down.

And finally Bennett:

“You couldn’t make it up.”

Indeed you couldn’t sweetheart, you’d think people would get it that an anti-Semitic witch hunt is of no interest here but I tell you what love, come and join me in some proper anti-Semite discovery in my travails against Nazi bigots both here and in France, people truly deserving of some of your ire. You’ll feel a lot better for it trust me!

135. organic cheeseboard

i’m not entirely sure that the posting of all these links – not limited to the recent ones – is doing much for those who are still screaming ‘antisemite’ with no real evidence at ben White. the articles condemning him and those which, i quote:

on general British, rather English, antisemitism, fascism and racist hysteria vis-a-vis Israel, and Jews, as the author clearly suggests

are all absolutely terrible. full of mob hysteria, unproveable assertions, really very dodgy stuff if you unpick them, sleight of hand and libellous nonsense – and almost everything is firmly out of context. the last one, described in the quotation above, is probably the worst of the lot. actually, that’s wrong – the stuff on ‘seismic’ and ‘modernity’ is worse. But thse people re just amateur anthusiasts who just happen to pay for their own websites, so hey-ho, not much better should be expected i guess.

If this is what the antisemitism mudslingers think is good writing then i pity them. All to often, as this thread shows, if people have decided someone is an antisemite, they will recourse to absolutely anything for proof, and will try absolutely anything to achieve ‘victory in argument’.

that type of crap works on harrys place and sundry other poor-quality websites, awash with hysteria and people woh identify antisemitism in places such as pizzas. but it won’t work here, and it hasn’t.

those calling ben white an antisemite only manage to convince themselves. And i think that says it all.

Daniel “come and join me in some proper anti-Semite discovery in my travails against Nazi bigots both here and in France, people truly deserving of some of your ire. You’ll feel a lot better for it trust me!”

That’s part of the problem. Nazis are anti-semitic for sure and the fascists are scum. But that doesn’t mean we shouldn’t take on antisemitism on the liberal left or any other place. If Nick Griffin had written Ben White’s piece on AHmadinejad then nobody on the left would have defended him. This should be ABC but some people such as yourself and Sunny are in denial when it’s from the left.

organic cheeseboard:

Spot on, that seems to be all the chanters of anti-Semite can bring to the table, a sense that they must convince themselves and I find it odd that when their linked articles bring no damning confirmation you’d think they’d understand that Ben White as anti-Semite will take a lot more than what they put forward.

But still they come and speaking of which, here is Bennett once again, trolling around in a thread that is done with.

@Daniel 138: I haven’t made any comments about gender.

It was the bloke thing.

Wasn’t me though may have been someone else.

I meant Modernity! Apologies for that.

no probs

143. Ben White's watch

http://seismicshock.wordpress.com/2009/07/21/the-theology-behind-the-israeli-apartheid-gospel/
One more credible piece on Ben White’s – and his supporters’ wallowing in sweeeeeeeet denial and mindless rage that they have to FACE up to the facts – SMOKING GUN-type evidence on his antisemitism – and, consequently, racism. Thank you!

144. Ben White's watch

We’ve seen all these and read them you tit, it’s already been pointed out that they are tenuous hack jobs at best.

Get a life and do something useful with it you tool.

It is noticeable that neither Ben White (nor his otherwise vocal supporters) can actually bring themselves to *comment* on the inclusion of Roger Garaudy, as a supposed authoritative source in White’s book.

Modernity, you have got to be fucking kidding me, this is exactly the kind of bullshit that demans the term anti-Semitie, I’ll let you chase fictional ones while I go about getting the real bastards.

For the record you monstrous tit, Ben White includes in his select bibliography a Roger Garaudy essay.

NEWS FLASH!

If you include something in your bibligography it means you’ve read it and it has informed your writing, it does not mean that you recommend it or even care much for what it says. For example, does every author detailing Hitler and who pops Mein Kampf in their select bibliography recommend you buy Mein Kampf AND support every word in it as right?

No, you pillock, he merely included it in a bibliogrpahy but you thick dolts are so eager to smear people with serious insults you just do so without thought for the implications.

There is one quote in the post that worries me a great deal:

“Garaudy’s Holocaust denial should mean that White does not treat Garaudy as a serious author”

Excuse me? Who made you the fucking arbitar of who is and who isn’t a serious author you pompous fucking toad?

Seriously, how dangerously judgemental of you. Shakespeare was a terrible bigot and sexist moron whose works offend me but that doesn’t mean he shouldn’t be taken as a serious author. Louis Ferndinand Celine dabbled with anti-Semitism but also happened to write some damn fine fiction, good grief, people hold all kinds of backward views, like you for example BUT one would hope that an open mind is kept and that to judge all of your writing by your grotesque desire to smear people as anti-semites would not do all of it justice.

Utterly mental, the lot of you.

148. organic cheeseboard

i’ve not read whites book, so don’t feel qualified to comment too far, but even the ‘smoking gun’ about it as hosted on seismic doesn’t seem all that hot really. Garaudy wan’t a holocaust denier when he wrote the book; he wasn’t even amuslim back then. The claim is given here:

it is no longer 1977, but 2009, and Garaudy’s Holocaust denial should mean that White does not treat Garaudy as a serious author

well – maybe so, and i’m not sure i’d cite him.

But my knowledge of, say, Benny Morris’s recent remark that ‘[t]here are circumstances in history that justify ethnic cleansing’ oesn’t mean that I’d stop reading his earlier work. Just as my knowledge of Ezra Pound’s represensible views on Jews doesn’t mena that I can’t read the poetry he wrote as a young man.

and, again, his citing (not approvingly or otherwise, as ar as I can tell, just as suggested further reading) an article written by someone who later went on to deny the holocaust doesn’t make Ben White an antisemite, and it’s ludicrous to think otherwise. Again, this ‘evidence’ is wafer-thin.

I look at this board when I have time but that’s not too often.

Do any of you guys have day jobs?
Some of you seem to be here season in season out.

150. Ben White's watch

Ben White is the contemporary Max Mosley’s father-grandfather from the 1920s and 30s in up-to-date hot new edition.

Ben White’s Watch, as you’ve now lost the argument you’re just smearing people with vague and silly insults.

Well done you massive tit!

152. Alan Stoddart

Daniel Hoffmann-Gill

You support Hamas?….Oh good grief Schmook, you have got to be kidding!

First off you connect Hamas with killers, torturers and rapists

Following are excerpts from an address by Hamas MP and cleric Yunis Al-Astal , which aired on Al-Aqsa TV on May 15, 2009
Yunis Al-Astal:2009 It is well known that the Jews are bent on spreading abomination, depravity, and all types of corruption on the face of the Earth. Given that the diseases inflicted by God upon us constitute divine punishment for abomination, crime, and great sins – it is the Jews who are behind most of the abominations. They are the ones who spread obscenity and depravity, as well as brothels, nightclubs, discotheques, cinemas, chalets, casinos, and other devilish dens of temptation. Therefore, people who are afraid of the bestial swine flu should be even more afraid of the measures taken by the Zionist devils, which are more lethal to humanity than pigs. Undoubtedly, the great majority of the Jews deserve to be tormented, because they incurred divine wrath, and Allah cursed them many times in the Koran. Therefore, my advice is that we should be more wary of the schemes and conspiracies of the Jews. The fact that some countries slaughtered their pigs constitutes a modest measure in confronting this danger, as long as those countries maintain intimate, strong ties with the Zionists, whom Allah has decreed to be the brothers of apes and pigs.

Note that last part…..Many countries have slaughtered their pigs….Zionists, whom Allah has decreed the brother of pigs. Hmmm no incitement there.

Here are some links to see just what the democratically elected Hamas get up to:

http://www.youtube.com/verify_age?&next_url=/watch%3Feurl%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.tomgrossmedia.com%252Fmideastdispatches%252Farchives%252F001039.html%26feature%3Dplayer_embedded%26v%3DDnuDg2316dk

http://www.road90.com/watch.php?id=OrfFEfyK5F

I refer you to my previous answer.


Reactions: Twitter, blogs
  1. Liberal Conspiracy

    Article: Smearing opponents as anti-semitic http://bit.ly/4rN5uu

  2. Tim Ireland

    RT @libcon Article: Smearing opponents as anti-semitic http://bit.ly/4rN5uu

  3. Clay Harris

    RT @libcon Article: Smearing opponents as anti-semitic http://bit.ly/4rN5uu

  4. bat020

    RT @libcon Article: Smearing opponents as anti-semitic http://bit.ly/4rN5uu

  5. Spinwatch

    RT @bat020 RT @libcon Article: Smearing opponents as anti-semitic http://bit.ly/4rN5uu

  6. Neocon Europe

    RT @Spinwatch: RT @bat020 RT @libcon Article: Smearing opponents as anti-semitic http://bit.ly/4rN5uu

  7. Liberal Conspiracy

    Article: Smearing opponents as anti-semitic http://bit.ly/4rN5uu

  8. Tim Ireland

    RT @libcon Article: Smearing opponents as anti-semitic http://bit.ly/4rN5uu

  9. www.benwhite.org.uk: the blog » Blog Archive » My two new articles

    […] ‘Smearing opponents as anti-semitic’ on Liberal Conspiracy […]

  10. Clay Harris

    RT @libcon Article: Smearing opponents as anti-semitic http://bit.ly/4rN5uu

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    RT @libcon Article: Smearing opponents as anti-semitic http://bit.ly/4rN5uu

  12. Spinwatch

    RT @bat020 RT @libcon Article: Smearing opponents as anti-semitic http://bit.ly/4rN5uu

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    […] Filed under: apartheid analogy — seismicshock @ 10:04 pm Ben White writes on Liberal Conspiracy: ‘A favourite tactic of die-hard defenders of Israel is to smear critics of the country’s […]

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  16. How to ignore the mother of all issues | Antony Loewenstein

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  17. UCCF blogger gives Carte Blanche to ‘Israeli Apartheid Guide’ « Seismic Shock

    […] Holocaust a ‘myth’. Following widespread public criticism of White’s book, White condemned Holocaust denial and antisemitism, although in his book, White recommended the writings of French […]

  18. Ben White

    @RepStones @asa_wire yep – response to review http://bit.ly/dL7TF0 & here a general reply to smear tactics etc http://bit.ly/hY7Coh

  19. Ben White

    @LouiseMensch @sunny_hundal not done your research v.well, have u? "Ahmadinejad’s anti-semitism is morally despicable" http://t.co/wlkwjpIj

  20. Rosie

    Smearing opponents as anti-semitic | Liberal Conspiracy http://t.co/oAUZjxup

  21. Wayne Myers

    Don't think @LouiseMensch has read @benabyad's article on 'Smearing opponents as antisemitic': http://t.co/T7ZaAZsN <- hilarious in context

  22. Louise Mensch

    @conniptions I read it. You shld read comments beneath it. White also recommends an essay http://t.co/wAGpfNx0 by Garaudy, Holocaust denier

  23. Not Given

    Don't think @LouiseMensch has read @benabyad's article on 'Smearing opponents as antisemitic': http://t.co/T7ZaAZsN <- hilarious in context

  24. Not Given

    Die hard Israeli supporters smearing opponents as anti semitic polarizing
    #Israel #HumanRights #law
    http://t.co/mxyGcvPg

  25. Joe PW

    @conniptions I read it. You shld read comments beneath it. White also recommends an essay http://t.co/wAGpfNx0 by Garaudy, Holocaust denier

  26. sunny hundal

    @bernardmccabe idiot – http://t.co/2dn0odbr

  27. sunny hundal

    @LouiseMensch oh sorry – I forgot about this http://t.co/2dn0odbr – I also notice you didn't answer my point about importance of settlements

  28. Ben McCabe

    @bernardmccabe idiot – http://t.co/2dn0odbr

  29. DPWF

    @LouiseMensch oh sorry – I forgot about this http://t.co/2dn0odbr – I also notice you didn't answer my point about importance of settlements

  30. Not Given

    @IAKFpresident Die hard Israeli supporters smearing opponents as anti semitic polarizing.
    #Israel #HumanRights #law
    http://t.co/mxyGcvPg

  31. Jews Sans Frontieres

    Ben White on smearing opponents as anti-Semitic http://t.co/ZHTLGp0i (7/17/09)

  32. Ben White

    Three years ago, I wrote a piece that (predictably) remains relevant >>> Smearing opponents as anti-semitic http://t.co/wlkrLPz9

  33. Laid Back Farmer

    Three years ago, I wrote a piece that (predictably) remains relevant >>> Smearing opponents as anti-semitic http://t.co/wlkrLPz9

  34. Ben White

    @ZNovetsky @astridhka You see, you're either not very smart, or disingenuous. Let me help you out – from 2009 http://t.co/wlkrLPz9

  35. Ben White

    Gets bette. Now BICOM's @lukeakehurst says #BDS is "collective punishment" http://t.co/wlkrLPz9 Note, he justifies blocking Gaza exports

  36. Ben White

    Gets better. Now BICOM's @lukeakehurst says #BDS is "collective punishment" http://t.co/wlkrLPz9 … Note, he justifies blocking Gaza exports

  37. Richard

    Gets better. Now BICOM's @lukeakehurst says #BDS is "collective punishment" http://t.co/wlkrLPz9 … Note, he justifies blocking Gaza exports

  38. twinjenin

    Gets better. Now BICOM's @lukeakehurst says #BDS is "collective punishment" http://t.co/wlkrLPz9 … Note, he justifies blocking Gaza exports





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