The army isn’t the government being armed, you seem confused and as for citizens owning weapons illegally, yes that is worthy of a stint in prison.

The Libertarian platform is limited at best.

Regarding fund raising, much could be done here, since the age of 18 or so I’ve only ever really given to one charity, St.Dunstans and focus all my giving to them. But when someone attempts to chug me and I say who I have already given to, they have never heard of it and presume I’m lying.

Whatever device (and this may not be it) that can raise better funds for service men and women and their support networks, the better.

I agree and if I thought it could work out to the practical benefit of forces folk in need I’d happily join in. Trouble is I suspect it will polarise the extremes at either end of the political spectrum, leading to conflict, while the apathetic majority stay out of the way.

There is also the risk that people will think that watching a parade equates to “doing their bit for the troops”. This could seriously impact the many charities that are already struggling to support service personnel and their families. And lets the Gov. off the hook ‘cos “we got forces day, what more do they want?”.

OK, we all volunteered for the job. But our families did not volunteer to live with PTSD, alcoholism, disability etc. Also, once you’ve signed on it takes some serious bottle to refuse to serve on moral grounds. Unless you can prove absolutly beyond doubt that you are refusing an illegal order, and there is no legal aid on a battle field, you are looking at: automatic detention, some serious “motivational realignment”, ostracising by your former mates, and a Courts Martial. The few who have tried this have come of worst from the process.

Personaly I’ll stick to wearing a poppy at that time of year, listing to the yarns of the veterans, and not complaining when serving members get a bit pissed down town when they’re on leave.

That’s an odd thing to say. Would you rather have a army headed by a political president as a head? Americans found it very difficult to oppose the Iraq War at the start not least because it was the decision of the commander in chief and the head of state and therefore to oppose it was unpatriotic. That wasn’t the case in Britiain where you can oppose the policies of the Prime Minister without having your patriotism called into question.

In an ideal world, Armed Forces Day could be used as a middle ground and to en-act the kind of change you’re talking about.

I had never heard of veterans day before it was renamed, despite hanging around with Royal British Legion members ever since. Remembrance Sunday has always been (during my lifetime) the focal point for those wishing to show their respect for the armed forces, both living and dead. I know this from personal experience as I’ve seen and heard the comments from bystanders as serving service personnel march past after wreath laying.

Personally I suspect that the Gov. have spotted a way to accumulate some brownie points at zero cost and couldn’t help but leap on the band wagon pushed out by a very well meaning pressure group.

There is another pressure group lobbying for the forces called “Homes For Heroes”. Trouble is they want the Gov. to actually get off their backsides and sort out housing and welfare for veterans, which will take effort and money. So their band wagon has politely ignored.

I don’t think we need a forces day. Smacks of US style jingoism and that’s just not the British way. Quiet flag waving or total apathy is more our style.

Jemmy Hope: “no one has to save lives, and no one has to take lives” yep but sometimes we do. Hopefully more of the former though.

I’ve been posting comments here for for ages and never managed a caution.

You’ve really spoiled my day now.

But thanks for the warning Pagar.

It is well known on this site that she is a Tory troll in a pretty thin disguise.

Also, we have grown squeamish about celebrating the abilities of our military, this is a shame I think and shows a lack of realism in some quarters.

And if armed forces day is “brainswashing of the highest order” than whoever is in charge of brainwashing has a very limited imagination and knowledge of brainwashing.

Armed forces day does not say: “your country is always right no matter what” and it does not impy “automatic stifling of any questioning and it tramples over a number of issues: from arms proliferation to which wars are being fought and why”.

If only this one day did all those things, if only it was that powerful in concept, in reality, it is an event roundly ignored by many, especially those on the left, who seem to have a real problem with the military that can verge from an utter lack of respect to a deep sense of mistrust.

It is a cliche of the left that we are a bunch of liver-livered sods, afraid of getting our hands dirty and many here are taking the concept of armed forces day and running with it to the extremes of human imagination regarding its intent and purpose.

We should reel that in and focus on what it should be, a amrk of respect for those that do a difficult job.

But I’m not sure what ‘”Nobody has to serve if they don’t want to” has to do with it? No one has to be a nurse, or a doctor, or a teacher, all roles that need high levels of public sup[port and deserve greater efforts to raise the standards of their workplaces and the way they are paid and treated.

Your final summation of the role of the armed forces is a little narrow and sounds like you’re still on the tinfoil hat wearing donkey; it also sounds alarmingly like something that could go on a BNP flyer don’t you think?

I don’t feel at ease with celebrating the military. It smacks of brainwashing of the highest order and kool-aid notion that your country is always right no matter what. It implies automatic stifling of any questioning and it tramples over a number of issues: from arms proliferation to which wars are being fought and why.

We have a voluntary military, Nobody has to serve if they don’t want to.

But anyone who does should understand that they will be fighting for Anglo American oil companies rather than defending British shores.

Jemmy: I’m not sure if it matters that an armed forces day was not considered after any of those conflicts and indeed, maybe the source of it was not genuine but the concept itself is not a bad one at all.

And in all of this there seems to be a lot of forgetting about the men and women serving due to the collective fug of cynicism.

I don’t think your being cynical at all. In fact I think you are bang on the money. The military industrial complex is insatiable. They have to keep feeding billions and billion of $s into it. That means there will be more wars for oil and other resources, and British politicians have to be able to sell this bullshit to the people.

So lets get all the sheeple to get behind the troops, then maybe that will make them less questioning when we send those nice troops off on more of these wars for profit.

Just a thought.

NO

Do we need more religion in politics?

NO

These questions are getting easier and easier.