I find myself yearning to see figures on this.

Well, I would except that I value privacy and I don’t like the concept of blowing one’s own trumpet. Not that I’ve got much to blow. Well…

I have ten years management experience, significant financial training, and have worked with several successful start-up businesses. Surely my opinion counts for something?
Sorry, Aaron, bad call that one. You sound like an old boss of mine who everybody nicknamed “25-year-experience” said out loud at any opportunity while with the finger wagging like Regan from The Exorcist.

I frankly made quite an effort to reply to several of your remarks one by one without throwing insults or throaway comments.

Then you put:
[the current labour laws]contribute to a situation where there is chronic unemployment (possibly reaching 20%)
I already pointed out in #6 that the unemployment figures have finally began to go down. Your piece was mainly an attack on the PSOE which you clearly backtracked later on. The PSOE’s policies since the crisis started are starting to pay off.

I fail to see how making the sack easier would help in a crisis. You’d find that unemployment wuld probably shoot up to 34% if the Spanish CBI’s proposals were taken on board. Credit to the PSOE for not caving in to extensive pressure from the right.

many people on perpetual temporary contracts (yes there are laws against this but they can be side-stepped)
Many people on temporary contracts? Mate, the UK has got BY FAR the biggest number of casual/temping workers in the EU and it don’t look like Britain’s doing so fine in the crisis. Or does it?
ejh answered finely anyway here.

Oh not to have dosh. It would open the eyes of a few people…

—
Like I said at the top of this thread, zhisou, nothing personal on my part. You actually seem a really nice geezer. It’s just that the OP contains a staggering amount of unsubstantiated opinions.

Exactly the same as say, me writing one that goes: “Capitalism in Greece is turning nastier. There are plenty of stories of workers saying that they’ve had enough. They’re being treated like scum which is the epitomy of the centre-right’s failed management of the economy. The centre-right gvmnt have failed to tackle endemic corruption” etc etc. Fine in a conversation, but not in an article. That’s my humble opinion.

It’s this I object to. Credit to you for partly owning up to the fact bits were “careless in places” (understatement), but seriously in your line of reasoning there’s a logical fallacy after the other.

One is the equation you make: high unemployment=inflexible labour market which is, frankly, bollocks – and whether intentionally or otherwise, the same old skool trite propaganda typical of loaded people and bosses (see I’m carefully not saying right-wing as there are some self-professed left liberals who are also by default siding with the bosses come what may. A few on this site are fine evidence).

So because of the medium he is communicating through the structure of rationality shifts?

And James, you lost all chance of people actually addressing your points, such as they are, when you arrived on the thread being a complete arse and throwing around insults.

You’ve taken systematic efforts to raise the tone, clearly.

Serious people don’t respond well to that sort of thing.

No, I have to settle for you.

Serious people don’t respond well to that sort of thing.

The least charming of all appeals to authority are always staged in reference to the self.

It’s also worth noting that the idea that you can’t sack people in Spain is not really compatible with the fact of 20% unemployment, unless you think they’re all (or mostly) there due to firms closing down rather than laying off a portion of their staff.

It’s additionally worth noting that people in Spain, including the government, don’t prefer the Anglo-US model, not because enhanced employment rights are “a sacred cow” but because many people here prefer to do things this way. They look at the US and Britain and they see more poverty and inequality than they like, and they suspect that this won’t be addresed by employees being more vulnerable. They probably especially think this during a recession.

Inicdentally I don’t know anybody who, right now, is thinking “I think I’ll try and get myself sacked to get a pay-off”. I do know a lot of people who are losing their jobs or scared of it.

Sorry ty.

Anyway … if you don’t agree, fair enough, doesn’t make me wrong – my opinion does count for something, I have many years experience in the private and public sectors in different countries, including the UK and Spain.

In Spain, as well-meaning as the employee-rights rules are, they contribute to a situation where there is chronic unemployment (possibly reaching 20%), many people on perpetual temporary contracts (yes there are laws against this but they can be side-stepped), and employees and employers often treating each other dreadfully to either get a pay off, or avoid a pay off (you may dismiss these “stories” but I have heard and seen enough – including first-hand – to know it’s standard practice) and a stagnant job market.

I just think that this is unacceptable.

I also think that it’s unacceptable to avoid addressing this just because it involves slaying a Socialist sacred cow.

(Of course there is more to it than just this – there is very different work ethic and management culture and other factors).

& I’m not “trying to sound clever”. I would just like some interesting right-wing contrarianism if we’re going to have to endure any at all. This is the sort of stuff I could get on any number of right liberal/libertarian websites, not something entertaining in its wrongness.

Austrian school. Stop trying to sound clever. We’ve all read the books.

But some of the readers and contributors have actually worked in industry as well as built their own businesses. Just because they believe that excessive worker protections *can* actually impede employment, is not cause for personal attacks.

I have ten years management experience, significant financial training, and have worked with several successful start-up businesses. Surely my opinion counts for something?

I am not a socialist. If this is reason enough for you to ignore and hate me, whatever.

As for “its own merit”, well it was terrible. Gave me a narrow ideologue’s eye view of the country, like I was peering through some distorted hour-glass. You might say I’m just hankering for an ideologue with the same ideology that I have but I don’t think that’s fair: I read Austrian School stuff for fun, some times. The problem here is it doesn’t really tell us a huge amount apart from seemingly an employers perspective on the situation.

Basically if you got the CBI to do an article on the state of Britain this is sort of what I expect it would look like. The figleaf of employment controls being bad for the worker (who of course, desires nothing more than a total absence of job security) & the apparent absolute blindness to the context of downsizing (people might fire then not hire? Nonsense, surely nonsense!) is a mere irritation (like Danny Finkelstein feigning sympathy for the trade unionists of Iran in his recent Times column). In summary its not only an unpleasant, unhelpful read but is the sort of thing I’d expect not to find here. & it wasn’t an unpleasant surprise (post up some proper Austrian School stuff & you’d get my respect. If only to see what the libertarian/troll crowd do when they get outflanked! Anarchist, radical localist, perhaps even a neo-feudalist, might also be fun. I’m fine with non-typical left, but at least make it interesting.)

Left Outside – I understand that that is the case, but I don’t think that it’s really a pill most of the Liberal Con. contributers (either writers or readers/commenters) have swallowed. I might be wrong, perhaps I should just assume Aaron knows better than I do.

Not every article here has to be fit received leftwing wisdom. The editors would prefer if people engaged with the article and attacked it / discussed it on its own merit rather than questioning everything they don’t agree with and saying it shouldn’t be posted in the first place.

“Flexible” labour markets = more sackings but more hirings too.

“High” taxes = poor business environment

“The Socialist revolution continues” = urghhh…. stoopid socialists spending money on infrastructure and healthcare!!!

It’s not bizarre, its not correct, I mean it is a crock of shit, but I totally understand where they are coming from. It is not an odd point of view at all. I’d rather it was on a Liberal site like this so it could be engaged with than just not here at all.

What a terrible article. Who is this imbecile & why is Liberal Conspiracy hosting this moronic right-wing drivel?

Stop being a dick. Actually the article represents the liberal economic outlook shared by many readers and writers at “Liberal” Conspiracy.