I do not support this act and it is not the way the pro-life movement wants to be precieved, but I do understand the seriousness of this issue. I don’t refuse to listen to either side. I think I can understand it.

If you want true conversation with your fellow Americans try to understand both sides of an arguement. Do not fear changing your mind, rather yearn for clarity.

If a firm belief in perserving freedom is what drives you to the pro-choice movement. One could easily argue that by transfering power from the state level to the federal level, as Roe V Wade did, the individuals voice becomes smaller. Rather than the states being Laboratories of Democracy as our founders inteaded more decisions are being made at national centralized level, the furthest possible from the individual.

The federal politicians squeeze this issue for all it has, but rarely present the real arguments in this debate. Don’t take the bait. Sometime we all act live piranhas and jump at the red meat. Seek the truth. The true hypicrits are the ones that preach against hate, but refuse to listen to the other side.

I’m not sure I understand your comment; are you saying you feel unable to draw a line between your friends’ actions and the rhetoric of hate that fuel people like Scott Roeder?

I will say though, that the pro-choice position is about choice, free from coercion from either side. I’m well aware that there are people who pressure women into abortions, but that is not at the core of the pro-choice movement, and Dr. Tiller by all accounts, did refuse to operate on women if they were being coerced into the procedure.

I bring this up because I think it’s laudable and compassionate to offer support to women who choose to keep their child, and to shield them from pressure to abort, but that is a pro-choice action, unless there is also coercion intended to pressure a woman into an unwanted, unhealthy or inviable pregnancy.

It has been an educational eye opener to me, that pro-choicers, fear taking on the pro-lifers more than they fear taking on the police.

Pro-choicers don’t need to take on the police, at least not in the USA, where the freedom of a woman to make that choice; (either choice) is protected by law.

Unless the ‘they’ in the second half of that statement is referring to the anti-choicers who break federal law by pouring superglue into the locks of abortion clinics, obstruct access to womens clinics and harass health workers?

This is an honest offer. How would you express respect for that particular freedom of conscience, without inciting a destructive response?

I may be the wrong person to ask, here; I follow a religious path that includes the idea that teachings shouldn’t be given unless asked for, so I’m hardly in a place to be giving advice on how to propagate religious teachings. And for similar reasons, I really cannot give advice on how to coerce women into making a decision that is not their own.

Often our friends have given a room in their own house to a women in difficulty and supported her out of their own slender means and helped to find an adoption agency for the child. Never the less, for doing no more that this, they have sometimes found them selves in court.

It has been an educational eye opener to me, that pro-choicers, fear taking on the pro-lifers more than they fear taking on the police.

I am a sincere Catholic, but I do want to help the Church I love to find a way of expressing its support for life without inciting its weaker-minded members to murder.

This is an honest offer. How would you express respect for that particular freedom of conscience, without inciting a destructive response?

lovingly and humbly,
Maria

When it is 6000 for a late term abortion or a few hundred thousand for neo natal ICU and you are not insured, what are you going to do if you are pregnant with a deformed fetus? No one wants to talk about that, because the party that is most against healthcare is also most against late term abortion for situations with a deformed fetus.

Ok, your point on healthcare costs and GOP opposition to public healthcare has some validity, but cost-analysis should not be a justification for abortion. Fine, have the debate on supporting mothers with deformed foetus’, but we shouldn’t be seeking to end a potentially productive life for financial reasons.

If you will notice these killings only happen when there is a democrat in the white house, that is because the republican party does not keep the nuts fired up if a republican is in the white house.

They know they can get the nuts to vote republican based only on abortion, and they want control of congress back so what the hey if it causes Dr.s who provide abortion to be killed and injured and stalked?

When it is 6000 for a late term abortion or a few hundred thousand for neo natal ICU and you are not insured, what are you going to do if you are pregnant with a deformed fetus? No one wants to talk about that, because the party that is most against healthcare is also most against late term abortion for situations with a deformed fetus.

Scott Roeder is fiercely anti-choice*; he has a long history in the anti-choice community of posting on boards and threatening violence against doctors who perform abortions, where he was encouraged and supported.

Since the murder, anti-choice frontmen and bloggers have been implicitly and explicitly endorsing the act, calling it ‘justice’, refusing to call it murder, and like a few of the commenters here, saying that Tiller had it coming. Jill Stanek of Operation Rescue, published photographs of the clinic of another doctor who’d indicated he was willing to take Tiller’s place, because she and her readers ‘wanted to take a look’.

If this was really a one-off act by an ill man, perhaps you can explain why Tiller had to wear a bullet proof vest to work, why the clinic was reinforced and bomb-proof, and why doctors like Warren Hern are so afraid for their lives that they can’t sit by an open window.

There seem to be a lot of “one mentally disturbed [men]“, and they have the support of a remarkable number of people calling themselves ‘pro-life’, working to create an environment of fear and hatred aginst the people they choose to persecute.

That’s terrorism.

*I use that term rather than ‘pro-life’ out of respect for people who are “pro-lie but think abortion should be legal”, which is actually the position of many pro-choicers.

No one is righteous before our dear Savior, Our thoughts are wrong including our behavior

Because of everything we do or say, That only leaves us one option—to pray

Dear God because I am guilty of not doing right,I ask you to save me today or tonight

Only Jesus can save me from my sin, I think of the unborn and wish I had let life begin

I am crushed and heart broken, No comfort my soul has ever been spoken

The blood of Jesus is all that can cleanse me, I want to do what is right and please God within me

All wrongs have equal weight on God’s judgment scale, Even stealing a pencil can send us to hell

All of us do wrong and compare ourselves with others, We are not more righteous* than hysterical pregnant mothers

And if most women-with-child was loved by the child’s father, She would smile and happily say “No abortion” why bother

You have hidden or damaged emotions buried in a sea of pain
Release them and you have everything to gain
Ask God and the person you mated with to forgive you
Forgive yourself and live the abundant life.

*Romans 3:10,12

© 2008 Arthur Trafford.com OR Arthur@ArthurTrafford.com

I wonder if they’d apply the same ‘logic’ to partisanship and Islamic terrorism.

Also, that post completely misunderstands Buddhism, but I’m hardly surprised.

Why was President Bush so good at it?

Why is President Obama so bad at it?

see the answer at kneelingcatholic.blogspot.com

Hey! That was my line from months ago! I even made an image for it.

Tiller was no ‘murderer’, just someone carrying out an unpleasant necessity to the best of his abilities.

I have no sympathy for money grubbing doctors acting like they are doing something good for people (women) but they are no better than a televagelist ripping off widows and orphans for their last cent!

You “Pro choice/death” people are such hypocrites – never seeing the forest because of the tree of your selfishness. Why don’t you shed a tear for the children torn to shreds by this man’s seared conscience.

Your failure to do so, suggests that your hatred for christians / whites /right-wingers and is greater than your concern for the welfare of women in general.

I know a lot more about the Pro Life movement that you do, not least because I’m part of it.

You on the other hand have displayed a startling inabiltiy to engage in rational argument. Your comments about the Catholic Church were of a piece with your invention of something you called the American Christian Taliban; childish bigotry.

No point till they have got abortion banned.

And the Catholic Church has a great record on matters of sex and looking after all those little boys in its care.

I am sorry but you are totally ignorant of the anti abortionist movement in the USA. The fact that you are not aware of their anti sex education, and anti family planning makes it pointless debating you.

I suppose we should be thankful you have not started killing doctors here in the UK. So thanks for that. Only a matter of time I guess.

I freely admit to being ignorant about this mysterious organisation you call the American Christian Taliban and in an effort to remedy this I did the obvious thing and googled the term. No organisation of that name appeared.

The Catholic Church opposes condoms and birth-control based sex-education but has not called for them to be banned. Yet again you are mixing up opposition with campaigns for prohibition.

It would be a lot more fun playing with you, so to speak, if you upped your game.

The dips**t liberals here also miss the point concerning democratic rights in the USA. Had more decent citizens exercised their democratic rights to carry firearms Dr Tiller might still be alive.

Well that just shows how ill-informed you are about the America Christian Taliban.

Also, I think you will find that the Catholic Church here and America and all over the world are against condoms and would like them banned. They also do not like sex education in schools.

But thanks for playing.

Really, where?

…then they want to ban Condoms and all sex education.

I’m not aware of any British Pro Life group which wants to ban condoms or sex education. They critique sex-education based around birth-control, pointing out that it is singularly ineffective at reducing abortion rates, which is probably what you were thinking of when you asserted that they want to ban condoms and sex-education. But criticising and pointing out the ineffectiveness of something is rather different to demanding that it be banned.

It is not about the un born baby it is about the sex.</i?

Writing as a Pro Lifer I can tell you that you’re wrong. So long as it’s between consenting adults how people choose to conduct their erotic lives is none of my interest or concern.

They hate woman having sex and being able to control their bodies. It is a religious thing. After all, most Christian fundamentalists still blame Eve for all the sin in the world.