Lib dem expenses are now out, and only one really compares. Only a couple of especially bad cases to deal with- simply using the expenses is a story in a couple of cases where it wasn’t for the other parties. The telegraph includes with most of them that they are being paid back already, so that leaves labour well behind.

The Lib Dems won’t really be able to take more of a lead on this than the tories, especially since a number of senior people are implicated (if in especially minor ways). However, it leaves labour looking very, very bad.

You can have a private flat if you wish, but you get very little allowance for it and you have to pay for the upkeep etc yourself.”

I like it, but MPs would not.

Thing is, it would be a very cost effective answer. One off building costs, and then they could be used for decades. MPs would not have to buy property, and so there would be no capital gains problems. If they did not like them then travel home.

Of course we all know what would happen. Tories would not be seen dead in them, (social housing) and would buy their own posh flats, either with their own money or some private corporation who wanted something in exchange, And the Labour and Liberal members would be branded by the media as scrounging off the state for taking them.

As usual, it is ok as long as you are a Tory.

However they have not published a complete claim which conclusively shows that a claimant demanded payment for a controversial item. A few parliamentarians have claimed that the receipt includes items that were not on the expenses claim — eventually we will get clarification from the parliamentary authorities under the official disclosure, but perhaps the Telegraph and the claimants could help us in the interim. In this case, if you are an innocent claimant, you have nothing to lose.

I have no doubt that massive abuse has taken place. “Flipping” can only be justified if there are major changes in the life of a claimant (eg divorce). But true judgement of individuals can only be conducted with full knowledge of the claims, which we don’t have from the Telegraph reports or from the claimants. The Telegraph’s coverage deserves examination too: the reporting is not that of the (historical) Sunday Times’ Insight Team or the Guardian/Channel 4 investigations during the Major years. The nasty drips from the Telegraph are more like those from a nasty right wing blogger (you know who).

Cameron’s demand that those who have made unreasonable claims repay that money is unsatisfactory. If you get caught with your fingers in the till, repayment is a requirement, not a punishment. But as I wrote above, judgement demands full knowledge of the facts (evidence owned by claimants, who can thus accelerate the decision process), and punishment needs to be proportionate. Heads may need to roll, Mr Brown, Mr cameron and Mr Clegg. And whenever evidence of expenses abuse is exposed, not just this week.

That could just as easily be turned around: “How the fuck can MP scum demand that taxes be raised when they continue to oil themselves at our expense?”

Or, if you prefer: “How the fuck can MP scum demand that borrowing must go up when they continue to oil themselves at our expense?”

On a related but more amusing note, I couldn’t help but be entertained by this:

http://waugh.standard.co.uk/2009/05/how-not-to-conduct-a-tv-interview-with-an-mp.html

If only more MPs could respond like that, I’d have a lot more respect for them.

I know a man who can help you out with that.

It is built into our political discourse, despite there being too few jobs for the amount of people that exist, those who don’t work are still pictured as some how criminal and pathological.

The fact that they have been screwing us all slowly at the same time as this beggars belief.

Labour are clearly the worse, I expect this of the Tories, they are the party of rational self-interest after all, but still, still, I expected better of Labour. I am a Twat. They have proved me a Twat and I’m bitterly angry.

The worst this is that the hollowing out of trust in the major parties is a godsend for the BNP. I hope that Liberal Conspiracy will prove equally up to the task of savaging both parties for what they have done.

Nice basic flats all in a block where MPS could have a bed and shelter.

That’s very similar to what they do in Sweden, Sally.

You can have a private flat if you wish, but you get very little allowance for it and you have to pay for the upkeep etc yourself.

The State owned apartments are kept in order by the State. The more I read about the Swedish system the more I like the sound of it.

The Torygraph is just another arm off the Tory party so it will help them as much as possible. No mention in the Telegraph about how it is wrong for Right wing politicians who complain about people scrounging off the state to be claiming for all this stuff.

The answer to the second home problem would be to build a sort of political version of university halls of residence. Nice basic flats all in a block where MPS could have a bed and shelter. Most Mps would not be seen dead in them, and most Tories could afford to buy their own second home.

Shatterface – Cameron also had the advantage of the government being softened up for three days before it was his lot’s turn.

But Cameron has handled this better than Brown. I wish it weren’t so, but he has. WHY did Brown not come out with something similar to Cameron’s measures last week, when Labour MPs were on the rack?

I can only imagine, as I said above, that he’s in complete political paralysis. Cameron doesn’t need to be a political genius to exploit that. (Or, possibly, Labour MPs would not submit to such measures with the discipline that Tory MPs seem to be showing?)

There goes Lee again, standing up for the Tory party or Tory trolls. He can’t help himself. The great pretend Liberal.

But the Tories always win in these sort of scandals because they don’t believe in govt solutions, so even when the screw up, they can say “ see, we told you so, govt does not work.” But I see nothing in the media about why it is wrong ideologically for the Tories to be claiming all this stuff. Unlike when a Labour politician sends his child to a private school and the media loves to jump on about ideological hypocrisy.

As usual it is ok as long as you are a Conservative.

Thanks, Tinter.

I think the tories have defintly come out of this better. Regardless of whose offences were worse (though I do think labours were), the response from labour and the tories has been very different. Pay it back and then its fine is hardly likely to win any love from the public- but it is at least a response that shows the payments were wrong. The labour response of “within the rules, within the rules” was possibly the worst PR move I have ever seen, and anything they do now it catchup at best.

And where is our beloved PM? In which cave is he skulking today?