Do you seriously think the average person on the proverbial Clapham Omnibus have any interest whatsoever in ‘global class struggle’ ? Get real. They are interested in their local services, their jobs and being able to walk down the street without being mugged or blown up by some nutter with a fictional grievance. You fail to address the points about how the stupid and idiotic polices and ideas of Gordon Brown have all but bankrupted the state. The people I meet are seething with rage at how Brown & Co have Taxed and Spent and yet they see no meaningful improvements in their services. So carry on with the student politics if you want, but you merely underline the point of why the left is increasingly irrelevant and that is exactly what Sunny is talking about.

As for the BNP – at least they’re open in what they’re about. They know that the possession of a white skin is an unmerited privilege and their entire raison d’etre is to defend that privilege.

Sooner or later the penny will drop with the Left that the “parliamentary road” is about as relevant to the global class struggle as electoral politics were to South Africa’s ANC before the 1990s. White voters in the UK – including most of us conspirators – are part of the problem hypocritically masquerading as (at least potentially) part of the solution.

And people in the “Third World”, the “South” or whatever you want to call it, have seen through us and have got thoroughly sick and tired of us. Whether it’s Islamists, educated young Indian women rejecting western notions of gender equality just because they are western or African politicians calling for reparations for the slave trade – the majority of humanity is in the process of rejecting Western values, whether those are dressed up in left-wing or right-wing rags. And if you believe both in the greatest good of the greatest number and in the ability of people correctly to identify their own self-interest, there are only two alternatives: to agree with them, or to propose a political line which defends the unmerited privilege of the white-skinned whilst hypocritically pretending to do no such thing.

I disagree that the BNP will be as strong in some constituencies as you suggest. But again the BNP gain because the mainstream parties fail to appreciate what a slice of the electors are saying. You can’t discuss (till recently) immigration and asylum policy because the Left scream ‘racist’ at every verse end.

The left have failed because they have been wrong on virtually every issue in the last century. That is why the centre of political gravity has moved slightly to the right. The last 12 years where we have had an old fashioned ‘Tax & Spend’ Labour Government have been a total and utter disaster. It will take a generation at the very least to clear up the mess, if it can ever be properly cleared up which is a matter of debate. Why anyone would even contemplate voting for the likes of Gordon Brown is frankly astonishing.

The LDs may well be the party which is most consistent in its defence of our personal liberties, as you would expect from a party which will never have to take responsibility for national security or the implementation of its policies in social matters. That in and of itself does not make them more “left wing”.

And no I don’t think that suggesting that elections may in the future be contested between the Tories and the BNP is idiotic. There will, sadly, be some constituencies at the election after next where that is what will happen.

My basic point is that the centre of political gravity has moved far to the right in the last quarter of a century – someone with the views of, say, Michael Heseltine is probably now left of centre. A major cause of this is the intellectual failure of the left during this period, as discussed on this site at some length.

“Confront the issues now and show how Labour will not govern in the same way again.”

I for one do not want them back again.
Here are just a few reasons:-

Iraq
PFI’s
10p tax
Academy Schools
Reducing capital gains for hedge funds
Micro management of just about everything
Massive surveillance of the public
Slavish adherence to U.S. policy.
Sycophancy towards bankers and anyone with money

and lots more ……….

Too many kept their mouths shut whilst the Labour Party were implementing Tory policies, in case they rocked the boat and the Tories got in !!!!!!

The Lib Dems will never roar ahead whilst the public are placing their bets on a corrupt two horse race.

Anthony talks about some of the issues, but will be less keen on the obvious solutions. I hope Gordon Brown remains in power and leads Labour into the next election. The following morning, when the scale of the defeat is plain for all to see (Labour lost the popular vote in England last time round by the way) there will be no excuses, nowhere to hide. The defeat will not be just Labours, but it will be the Lefts too.

Politics is the art of building and holding together a coalition to pursue shared interests. The reason the Lib Dems are unable to outpace Labour is that they are unable to gain their constituency. The Lib Dems are too concerned with middle class urban/suburban values to engage people in Labour’s heartlands and without the secure base they provide will never be in a position to form a government.

I do agree though that a concentration on Westminster politics is part of the problem. Perhaps the answer is to create a broad church movement, and worry about the party politics of it later? That’s how the Labour movement was founded afterall. While people on the left differ passionately about means we usually share a vision for a free, fair and equal society. Party politics is discredited amonst the general public, but people are politically involved through other organisations, pressure groups etc.

Clearly the government deserves to lose. In the battle for Labour after this happens it is going to have to face some big moral-strategic issues: the invasion of Iraq (from which David Miliband does not “resile’); the embrace of neo-liberalism; the authoritarian state. This is not a balance sheet of the pluses and minuses, it’s about fundamental issues where the party will have to answer for how it governed. That’s before it gets to the national question.

There are two kinds of answers. Take 18 years until most everything is forgiven or forgotten and hope for the best. Confront the issues now and show how Labour will not govern in the same way again.

This is where Sunny is spot on in looking for the energy needed for successful renewal. This is not about policies. The Convention on Modern Liberty touched a nerve because it said, hold on, we can’t be treated like this (locked up without charge, being surveilled, kettled, tracked and controlled). Did our saying so “assist the Tories” as some on the Labour left muttered? Well, whose fault is that! You have to say it like it is, if you want renewal. Going on about ‘The Good Society’ isn’t, well, good enough as Gerry Hassan has pointed out, after all, who is for a bad society? The issue of liberty is critical because it addresses the way people feel about how we are governed. Yes, it is process if you want to put it like that. But it isn’t abstract. Everyone knows that means determine ends.

Which is why Curly @ 2 is wrong about the “average bloke”. There is no such bloke. If he is young and likes clubbing he will care about civil liberties. Sunny is generous about the CoML. But a third of those who came were young and had £20 concession tickets (and got lunch and coffees!) And people learnt, it wasn’t just about protesting and being right and beating the other side. The videos both beforehand and of the day show how the issues open up to a wider public. http://www.modernliberty.net/

But if lethargy threatens to reduce Labour to squabbles and displacement exercises – I mean what kind of part re-opens the doors of No 10 and Chequers to Draper! – there is still a puzzle about the Lib Dems. Why aren’t they on a huge roll? Their leader wants to reinvent politics. He sees that it was a broken system that permitted the economy to crash the way it did. Why if they are so right are they not making a breakthrough? It should be easy to write a fierce attractive manifesto that captures the imagination of the media. I _think_ the answer is that they still want to reform Westminster from within. Their words are undermined by their body language. In other words, they too are not catching the energy.

For me the terribly intellectual discussions at Compass et al are interesting, but they’re a tiny dot in an ocean of grassroots energy for real politics that deals with real issues for people on the ground.

For me, waking up the left requires that we wake people up to the connection between left political parties and the wider spectrum of non-electoral political movements. Electorally successful left parties like the Greens can do good work outside of Parliament and may yet get in there next Spring. In many areas of the country we’re also good at linking up with — not harnessing — the energy of more grassroots movements. So are some local Labour and Lib Dem parties, no doubt.

http://tom.acrewoods.net/blog/2009/may/waking-greens

The way the Labour party is structured, I’ve never seen much evidence of effective local campaigning, or effectively joining up with / boosting social movements. Maybe this will begin to happen once they’re out of power?

E Bevin’s success as Minister of Labour in WW2 was due to his founding the TGWU.

Politicians seem to believe that if a little knowledge is dangerous , then it is best to be on the safe side and be totally ignorant.

With the New Labour project almost over

.

Seriously – if you think it is then…

http://willrhodesportmanteau.com/2009/04/26/final-full-stop-on-the-new-labour-era/

New Labour isn’t dead – far from it.

But what ideas do you want? More Guardian posts by Peter Hain fear mongering about the BNP?

The Tories are coming to power because the public can see that Labour have spent an enormous amount of public money; can not see a proportionate improvement in public services; and can see that they are about to be presented with a bill which, unless the economy picks up dramatically, will increase by one hundred and seventy-five thousand million pounds per year.

The governments own figures suggest that it will take a quarter of a century to pay off this debt – and those figures are based on assumptions widely derided as hopelessly optimistic.

That is the issue the Left in this country has to deal with, before it can reasonably expect to see public office again.

I agree that our multiple political parties make pursuing a similar model to that of American activists very difficult. One of the things I admire about what LC is trying to do is build a movement independent of party affilation, but there are limits to what can be achieved with blogs alone.

And yes, ideally LC would become big enough to support local (”real world”) groups but at the moment we’re some way off that. Indeed, if it is to happen it will probably need several sites to come together. Another difference from the States is that here, unlike there, there is a marketplace in political parties who define themselves as “left-of-centre” and who would doubtless be reluctant to see any of their few remaining activists peel off into pressure-group politics.

Anyone know of any sources of funding for people to be trained?

Anyway, enough thought for the afternoon, to the Gym!

Let me explain what I mean using LibCon as a example. I’ve come to the site and been confronted by a wall of journalistic articles on varying subjects produced by an unknown elect chosen one presumes for their writing talents. All well and good, and it makes a diverting read, but it ends there. I can comment on one of these articles as I might at the Guardian, but my input is not highly valued and my efforts not sort. You don’t know my email address, you don’t know where I live, what I do, what I know, who I know, what motivates me or what valuable skills I might have. So I read for a bit, and then I move on.

Now contrast this with somewhere like DailyKos (which I know isn’t fair but go with it) which has similar blogging front pieces but whch actively encourages the formation of communities. They’re giving me the information, but they’re also providing a mailing list of people who might share my interests, providing a network of invested and informed commentators who can refine my message or improve the exceution of my actions and provide the plurality perspectives that lead to new ideas and actions.

I also agree with the comments about those still clinging to Labour, although I suppose I would, wouldn’t I? I think the people who came to the CoML, perhaps those at Six Billion Ways, and all of those who care about civil liberties, green issues and feminism encompass many many more people than the Labour Left, the Greens and left-leaning Lib Dems put together. If those people aren’t interested in joining a party or helping to get a party elected, at the very least there should be some kind of democratic membership-based mass pressure group that can lobby government effectively.