Now if we can just lose Tom Watson, Gordon Brown, Hazel Blears, Jacqui Smith, Ed Balls and David Millibland, we might be getting somewhere.

Still, this weekend’s news has put a song in my cynical, embittered heart.

Dungeekin

For me it is a question of Leadership or a lack of that is the real problem. All 3 parties have weak, uninspiring leaders who are basically all part of an outdated political system that allows politicians to lie, cheat, waste our money and get away scot free! And yes i include the Liberals in on this mess. Global capitalism requires a new type of governance and I don’t see it anywhere in the UK right now.

Of course, our deep-seated principles are based on Liberalism, rather than the sort of thing that disillusioned Labour supporters might be looking for – is this what you have an issue with, perhaps?

Of course the Tories would have been just as enthusiastic to hang on Bush’s coat tails in the rush to invade Iraq and in the process destroy Hundreds of Thousands of innocent peoples lives but I believe that they would have been a tad more honest about the whole nasty affair. I am not convinced about this of course but find it hard to believe that anyone could lie as much as Blalr and Brown did to us and Parliament.

I have often wondered could i ever bring myself to vote for the Tories and the answer is I really don’t know as much as i HATE Brown, Blair et al I still know that the underneath the smooth exterior the Tories are still as nasty as they were back in the 70s and 80s. However, there is very little difference now between the two main parties and i firmly believe that the best we can hope for is a leader like Obama (from either party), who it seems has principles and charisma in abundance but is surrounded by bureaucrats and careerists. Either way I for one will NEVER put my faith in one party again!

Btw I would love someone on here to convince me otherwise about the LP as you can tell the Iraq issue is still gaping wound for me. Thanks for listening to my rant.

Uh oh. Teh evil sadistic sub-human hunters. I’m outa here.

Brown does show signs of mental instability and symptoms of autism.

Qualifications please?

Either is relevant to Brown’s current job, which he took despite the voters having been told categorically that he would not be offered it (remember Blairs promise to serve a full parliament?), and despite his only voters being fools of Fyfe who would vote for a rat in a red rosette.

John Major, succeeded Margaret Thatcher as Prime Minister on 28th November 1990. Fought his first General Election as party leader in April 1992. Until then his only voters outside of the Conservative Party were the hicks of Huntingdon who’d vote for a bull in a blue rosette.

See, works both ways.

McBride and Draper are tribal, Labour right or wrong. The allegations involved in this affair have no apparent basis in fact. Many of them have no relevance to fitness of the victims to govern. Two of the victims have no desire to enter public office.

I bet Sarah Brown, Kate Garraway and other innocents are well chuffed when they hear of the abuse, venom and bile thrown at them on Paul’s blog. And he makes it so clear, on so many occasions that it’s his blog and his rules, that the only conclusion is that he condones their opinions. Either that or he is so obsessed with traffic figures that he’ll let anything go.

There is no hypocrisy.

Bzzzt! Wrong answer. The trouble with having an idol with feet of clay is that eventually you notice that they’ve ruined the carpet. By then it’s usually too late.

Guido is not working for a political party, let alone a civil servant. Guido is not tribal in his politics, he has political views which he sticks to, and criticises opposing views whether from Labour or Conservatives. Those views are closer to Conservative politics than Labour, but that is not the same as being a tribal Conservative. Likewise he criticises those who would run the country for their dishonesty or incompetence. His own past is irrelevant because Guido does not seek to run the country. The fact that he called wrong on whether Levy would be tried is irrelevant, no-one can foresee the future. Many guilty men as well as many innocent ones never get the trial they deserved, either to condemn them or to clear their names.

Guido might post nasty things about Brown, but he does so openly with his reasons for believing those things and has good reasons for publishing them. Brown does show signs of mental instability and symptoms of autism. Either is relevant to Brown’s current job, which he took despite the voters having been told categorically that he would not be offered it (remember Blairs promise to serve a full parliament?), and despite his only voters being fools of Fyfe who would vote for a rat in a red rosette.

McBride and Draper are tribal, Labour right or wrong. The allegations involved in this affair have no apparent basis in fact. Many of them have no relevance to fitness of the victims to govern. Two of the victims have no desire to enter public office. Most telling of all this whole RedRag blog was to be a lie, an apparently independent site actually run by Gordon Brown’s man. The content was to have been all entirely fiction.

There is no hypocrisy. If you can’t see the difference between Guido and McBride and Draper then you have not understood what McBride and Draper tried to do.

Gordon Brown is poisonous for the Labour Party.

The problem dates back to 1992 when, in the wake of Kinnock’s resignation following the election defeat, Brown decided not to stand against John Smith for leader of the Labour Party. There are undoubtedly numerous reasons why he didn’t, from concerns about more than one leadership candidate being Scottish to loyalty to his mentor John Smith.

I don’t know what promises were made or expectations were set, but during the period until John Smith’s death, Brown considered himself to be next in line. The Party choosing Blair ahead of him in the wake of Smith’s death was, I suspect, a fundamental blow to Brown, one which would go on to have a profound impact on Brown’s approach in Government.

His anointment as Prime Minister in 2007 without facing a leadership election just compounded matters. He didn’t fight in 1992, backed off again in 1994 and had to do nothing in 2007. Draw your own conclusions.

Gordon Brown is poisonous for the Labour Party.

Mainly because Plaid Cymru is the home of the liberal left in Wales, not Labour.

Oh, and New Labour stopped representing the left a long time ago. If McBride and Draper had succeeded, all we would’ve had is two Guido Fawkes, both illiberal, and both smearing.

Many points on here show that the liberal-left do have something to say and do it in such a way that right-wingers could not conceive, but as always there is one thing that is patently obvious that most simply ignore it or miss it.

The sex sells part of advertising – and it does. Whether a car crash or sex, people will rubber neck and will also turn around and go have another look to see if they saw it right the first time – that is all Tory blogs do, and it works!

Should there be a central blog where the liberal-left all join up and stick with the message – HELL NO!

That is precisely what Draper was trying to do in his own egotistical way – get everyone reading his blog.

You also, and have said this until blue in the face, remember that the right-wing blogs have MSM free advertising – all over the place, we don’t! You cannot get a message out unless people read what you have to say. And left-wing/liberal blogs are not sexy enough for people to get ‘into’.

While New Labour is seen as the left and liberal party we will be ignored – we have to move away from them, abandon them to sink as they should.

New Labour are neither liberal nor left-wing, and as long as people keep saying/believing that they are our message will be dead in the water!

Paul Staines 1: PS1 was active in the libertarian wing of the Federation of Conservative Students in the early/mid 1980s. The libertarian wing formed alliances with the traditional right (eg Monday Clubbers) to overpower the moderate, reformist tendency amongst conservative students. In the end, the libertarian wing became so strong that it could dominate FCS without need for alliances, and was looking towards the Young Conservatives for expansion of its activities. It all ended when the Conservative Party dissolved FCS which was becoming an embarrassment. The Conservative Party also put strict controls on associate groups to prevent the entryism that was prevalent in the Labour Party.

PS1 ventured into business at this time, selling T shirts with political slogans. Money and politics are a consistent Paul Staines theme.

There are two unusual incidents during the PS1 student politics phase. One is the alleged proposal for a tactical alliance with the BNP. The other is Staines’ membership of the Social Democratic Party when he was a self claimed libertarian after reading Karl Popper at the age of thirteen.

Paul Staines 2: After leaving Higher education, PS2 evolved as a bag carrier for David Hart, the right wing eccentric beloved of Margaret Thatcher for his strike breaking activities during the 1984/1985 NUM dispute. PS2 emerged too late to have any involvement when Hart was most active, but he fronted the right wing briefings that Hart and associates published and funded. PS2 travelled the right wing globe a bit, firing guns and hanging out with UNITA in Angola and the Contras in Nicaragua. However his UK based activities are still interesting even though he was stuck at home writing and editing (all of the “offices” for the organisations for which PS2 worked were accommodation bureaux or letter drops).

Hart’s most prominent “organisation” was the Committee for a Free Britain which published newspaper adverts in support of conservative causes. Here’s a quote from _New Right discourse on race and sexuality_ by Anna Marie Smith:

“The Conservative Party released the advertisement which listed four book titles, including Young, Gay and Proud during the General Election. In addition to this official campaign, the Committee for a Free Britain launched a series of unofficial advertisements featuring Betty Sheridan, a member of Haringey’s Parents Rights Group. Sheridan stated, ‘I live in Haringey, I’m married with two children. And I’m scared. If you vote LABOUR they’ll go on teaching my kids about GAYS & LESBIANS instead of giving them proper lessons.’

Section 28 should therefore be regarded as the product of a concerted effort on the part of extra-parliamentary right-wing groups and Conservative Party members to homosexualize leftist local governments.”

As a “foreign policy analyst” for the Committee for a Free Britain, it is implausible that PS2 was unaware of this campaign, whether or not it was conducted during his period of office.

PS2 also worked for British Briefing, a smear journal against left wing MPs and trades unionists, provided to large companies on subscription. British Briefing was founded by people with close connections to the US and British secret services, but the paper was in decline when PS2 was employed there. PS2 is very glib about the experience: “The only scary thing about those publications was the mailing list – people like George Bush – and the fact that Hart would talk to the head of British Intelligence for an hour. I used to think it was us having a laugh, putting some loony right-wing sell in, and that somebody somewhere was taking it seriously.” I don’t consider the destruction of careers and relationships to be a joke.

Those briefings and journals were intentional propaganda, funded by multinational companies and right wing nutters, but who provided the information?

Recent newspaper reports have stated that Paul Staines has no formal training as a journalist. Idiots. He informally learned to write by experts.

Paul Staines 2.5: Drugs and dance finished off PS2′s previous career.

Paul Staines 3: Globe trotting financial dealer (how, what qualifications?) and occasional outspoken writer on ethics: “I speak as a former broker. I would like to say that I worked tirelessly in pursuit of my client’s best interest, but in reality I worked tirelessy in pursuit of brokerage.”

PS3 missed out on his career in accountancy: “If as a Libertarian you take the view that the State enslaves and steals from you via taxes, you won’t have any qualms about protecting your property from tax-thieves. Silent Banking, a controlled circulation publication from Scope International used for the training of law enforcement agents to counter money laundering, gives useful tips on how to do it. Offshore credit cards are a good method, untraceable earnings are paid offshore into an account linked to a Visa card!”

PS3 goes bankrupt, but at least he gives a clue to the money to his bankers.

Notice how the man cannot keep his gob shut.

Paul Staines 4: PS4 founds the Guido blog. It is all hush, hush, but he published phone numbers that are traceable by a ten second web search to Paul Staines. Guido never discloses sources, but any allegation without an indication of origin is just smear. Guido proclaims that he is untouchable under UK libel law because his server is located overseas and likewise his publishing company. Please don’t take legal advice from Guido. Similarly, don’t take advice on libel from the mates of him who have sent “take down” notices to Guido’s critics.

***

So who is Paul Staines? He considers himself to be a libertarian, but he is willing to ally himself with authoritarian right wingers for strategic reasons. No doubt he is an affable character who is open to a variety of social company, including lefties.

There is a lot that stinks about the guy. During the PS2 era, Staines hung out with unpleasant people, and thus we have to question his current (undisclosed) sources. Where did the Red Rag leak originate? A few possibilities:

1. A co-recipient of the messages sent them to Guido. Highly unlikely, because that would expose the co-recipient immediately.
2. Somebody hacked into an email account. This happens all of the time in fiction, but not in reality. If somebody hacked Derek Draper’s email account, there would be other interesting stories too.
3. A co-worker of one of the conspirators was so affronted by records on a computer, s/he forwarded them to Guido. Why send them to Guido? Why not the Times or Guardian, which actually have investigative reporters to track the story? However, this is the most likely source of the leak.
4. GCHQ and loads of spooks on the job. Nope.

Staines is nonetheless a “useful idiot” who continues to serve the oppressive right.

I think you are overdoing the whataboutery. Of all those stories mentioned in the Hopi quote, 1 had its origin in a Lab briefing war, and most of the others were MSM pickups.

Main point:

It seems to me that the New Lab political culture is the Titanic, the current elite are the 1st Class Passengers, the Steerage lot have already gone under, and the Iceberg is the organisational stuff created to build New Lab on.

The long term reform project for Labour is perhaps to melt the iceberg (while keepig some good bits?). I have no idea how or what will come next.

The short term problem – for us in the East Midlands at least – is what is going to happen in the Euro Elections to a) the disillusioned Lab vote b) the UKIP / Orangeman (we have Kilroy as an MEP) vote if they melt down. We are in a transition from Old Labour to whatever comes next , and in local politics the leaders are Lib Dem/Independent.

Really? What about all the right wingers on CIF? And what about me on here!