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	<title>Comments on: Report: Govt has lost control of database state</title>
	<atom:link href="http://liberalconspiracy.org/2009/03/23/report-govt-has-lost-control-of-database-state/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://liberalconspiracy.org/2009/03/23/report-govt-has-lost-control-of-database-state/</link>
	<description>creating a new liberal-left force</description>
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		<title>By: On the UK&#8217;s DNA Database, Part 2 &#171; Genetic Inference</title>
		<link>http://liberalconspiracy.org/2009/03/23/report-govt-has-lost-control-of-database-state/#comment-45897</link>
		<dc:creator>On the UK&#8217;s DNA Database, Part 2 &#171; Genetic Inference</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 May 2009 12:09:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.liberalconspiracy.org/?p=3473#comment-45897</guid>
		<description>[...] it really is. The governmental already hold a pretty scary amount of information on us (c.f. the recently report by the Joseph Rowntree Reform Trust), and investigating people based on genetic data seems much [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] it really is. The governmental already hold a pretty scary amount of information on us (c.f. the recently report by the Joseph Rowntree Reform Trust), and investigating people based on genetic data seems much [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Free thinking &#171; Curly&#8217;s Corner Shop, the blog!</title>
		<link>http://liberalconspiracy.org/2009/03/23/report-govt-has-lost-control-of-database-state/#comment-38937</link>
		<dc:creator>Free thinking &#171; Curly&#8217;s Corner Shop, the blog!</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Mar 2009 09:31:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.liberalconspiracy.org/?p=3473#comment-38937</guid>
		<description>[...] Government has lost control of the database state: The first ever comprehensive map of Britain’s database state today reveals how the database obsession of government has left officials struggling to control billions of records of our most personal details and almost every contact we have with the agencies set up to serve and protect us. An excellent examination of how the government&#8217;s astonishing fondness for databases is ineffective, inefficient, costly, flawed, possibly illegal, discriminatory, and a risk to children, amongst other things. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Government has lost control of the database state: The first ever comprehensive map of Britain’s database state today reveals how the database obsession of government has left officials struggling to control billions of records of our most personal details and almost every contact we have with the agencies set up to serve and protect us. An excellent examination of how the government&#8217;s astonishing fondness for databases is ineffective, inefficient, costly, flawed, possibly illegal, discriminatory, and a risk to children, amongst other things. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: ukliberty</title>
		<link>http://liberalconspiracy.org/2009/03/23/report-govt-has-lost-control-of-database-state/#comment-38867</link>
		<dc:creator>ukliberty</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Mar 2009 15:07:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.liberalconspiracy.org/?p=3473#comment-38867</guid>
		<description>inJustice Minister Michael Wills denied everything on &lt;a href=&quot;http://news.bbc.co.uk/today/hi/today/newsid_7958000/7958482.stm&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Radio 4&#039;s Today programme&lt;/a&gt;.  It really recommend worth listening to this if you fancy spraying tea over your keyboard.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>inJustice Minister Michael Wills denied everything on <a href="http://news.bbc.co.uk/today/hi/today/newsid_7958000/7958482.stm" rel="nofollow">Radio 4&#8217;s Today programme</a>.  It really recommend worth listening to this if you fancy spraying tea over your keyboard.</p>
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		<title>By: ukliberty</title>
		<link>http://liberalconspiracy.org/2009/03/23/report-govt-has-lost-control-of-database-state/#comment-38857</link>
		<dc:creator>ukliberty</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Mar 2009 13:43:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.liberalconspiracy.org/?p=3473#comment-38857</guid>
		<description>Wot Jono @ 2 said.  Also, that the authorities &lt;a&gt;do not appear to be interested in using the DNA database for exculpatory purposes&lt;/a&gt;.  If you are under suspicion, the system appears to work like this: if the DNA from the crime scene matches your DNA database record, you are screwed; if the DNA from the crime scene does not match your DNA database record, you are screwed.

I think it is worth noting that &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/03/02/dna_dbase_stalling/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;the police continue to ignore the ruling in &lt;i&gt;S &amp; Marper&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/a&gt;, claiming that they are awaiting guidelines from the Home Office - yet the law says that retention is at the discretion of the Chief Constable concerned. One would have thought Chief Constables would be interested in complying with the law and judgements.  The Home Secretary has seven days left to provide them with new guidelines.

There is an apparent obsession with collecting ever more data and introducing more systems - it is a modern snake oil peddled by politicians and IT suppliers.   But more data does not equal better data.

We recently heard again about eBorders, a system intended to &quot;identify passengers who are a potential risk and alert the relevant authorities&quot;.  &lt;a href=&quot;http://ukliberty.wordpress.com/2009/03/17/eborders-arrest-rate-worse-than-stops-and-searches-under-s44-terrorism-act/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;But the arrest rate is worse than that for ostensibly random stops and searches&lt;/a&gt;, and it is costing us billions of pounds. 

We recently had further confirmation that there wasn&#039;t a robust cost-benefit analysis for the National ID Card And Ridiculously Bloated Database Scheme.  It is striking (but not surprising) that such projects can proceed without a robust cost-benefit analysis.  I remain optimistic that the scheme will fail because it seems to meet at least six of the eight &lt;a href=&quot;http://ukliberty.wordpress.com/government-it-gone-wrong/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;common causes of government IT project failure&lt;/a&gt;. Yet his failure will cost us billions of pounds - it isn&#039;t finished but has already cost us millions and public sector employees are already accessing our private data on the databases that underpin it.

It is all very well people banging on about paranoia, but can they provide adequate justification for any of these systems?  And even if there is justification, are we competent enough to be able to deliver?  Precedent suggests not.

Finally, my irony meter exploded this morning when I heard that Government spokespeople had attacked the authors of the JRF / FIPR report for being politically biassed.  This is the usual pejorative when they can&#039;t think of anything substantive to say.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wot Jono @ 2 said.  Also, that the authorities <a>do not appear to be interested in using the DNA database for exculpatory purposes</a>.  If you are under suspicion, the system appears to work like this: if the DNA from the crime scene matches your DNA database record, you are screwed; if the DNA from the crime scene does not match your DNA database record, you are screwed.</p>
<p>I think it is worth noting that <a href="http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/03/02/dna_dbase_stalling/" rel="nofollow">the police continue to ignore the ruling in <i>S &amp; Marper</i></a>, claiming that they are awaiting guidelines from the Home Office &#8211; yet the law says that retention is at the discretion of the Chief Constable concerned. One would have thought Chief Constables would be interested in complying with the law and judgements.  The Home Secretary has seven days left to provide them with new guidelines.</p>
<p>There is an apparent obsession with collecting ever more data and introducing more systems &#8211; it is a modern snake oil peddled by politicians and IT suppliers.   But more data does not equal better data.</p>
<p>We recently heard again about eBorders, a system intended to &#8220;identify passengers who are a potential risk and alert the relevant authorities&#8221;.  <a href="http://ukliberty.wordpress.com/2009/03/17/eborders-arrest-rate-worse-than-stops-and-searches-under-s44-terrorism-act/" rel="nofollow">But the arrest rate is worse than that for ostensibly random stops and searches</a>, and it is costing us billions of pounds. </p>
<p>We recently had further confirmation that there wasn&#8217;t a robust cost-benefit analysis for the National ID Card And Ridiculously Bloated Database Scheme.  It is striking (but not surprising) that such projects can proceed without a robust cost-benefit analysis.  I remain optimistic that the scheme will fail because it seems to meet at least six of the eight <a href="http://ukliberty.wordpress.com/government-it-gone-wrong/" rel="nofollow">common causes of government IT project failure</a>. Yet his failure will cost us billions of pounds &#8211; it isn&#8217;t finished but has already cost us millions and public sector employees are already accessing our private data on the databases that underpin it.</p>
<p>It is all very well people banging on about paranoia, but can they provide adequate justification for any of these systems?  And even if there is justification, are we competent enough to be able to deliver?  Precedent suggests not.</p>
<p>Finally, my irony meter exploded this morning when I heard that Government spokespeople had attacked the authors of the JRF / FIPR report for being politically biassed.  This is the usual pejorative when they can&#8217;t think of anything substantive to say.</p>
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		<title>By: Jono</title>
		<link>http://liberalconspiracy.org/2009/03/23/report-govt-has-lost-control-of-database-state/#comment-38844</link>
		<dc:creator>Jono</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Mar 2009 11:20:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.liberalconspiracy.org/?p=3473#comment-38844</guid>
		<description>An MoJ Minister was on Today this morning and claimed that the DNA database is needed in its current form so that we can detect miscarriages of justice, like happened last week. I shouted &#039;bollocks&#039; at the radio. Last week&#039;s miscarriage was detected by comparing a specific person&#039;s DNA to a specific sample. It had absolutely nothing to do with the database.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>An MoJ Minister was on Today this morning and claimed that the DNA database is needed in its current form so that we can detect miscarriages of justice, like happened last week. I shouted &#8216;bollocks&#8217; at the radio. Last week&#8217;s miscarriage was detected by comparing a specific person&#8217;s DNA to a specific sample. It had absolutely nothing to do with the database.</p>
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		<title>By: Database State is Flawed, Insecure, Overpriced and Needs Scrapping &#124; Sharpe's Opinion</title>
		<link>http://liberalconspiracy.org/2009/03/23/report-govt-has-lost-control-of-database-state/#comment-38843</link>
		<dc:creator>Database State is Flawed, Insecure, Overpriced and Needs Scrapping &#124; Sharpe's Opinion</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Mar 2009 10:46:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.liberalconspiracy.org/?p=3473#comment-38843</guid>
		<description>[...] Database State is Flawed, Insecure, Overpriced and Needs Scrapping [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Database State is Flawed, Insecure, Overpriced and Needs Scrapping [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Jim Killock</title>
		<link>http://liberalconspiracy.org/2009/03/23/report-govt-has-lost-control-of-database-state/#comment-38832</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim Killock</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Mar 2009 08:29:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.liberalconspiracy.org/?p=3473#comment-38832</guid>
		<description>Great news that Ross Anderson and the FIPR ( http://www.fipr.org ) have got this to public light today. You can see that it&#039;s going to be a huge challenge to deal with this legacy - getting projects wrong in the first place has left a massive legacy of spending needed to protect our human rights. 

Some very basic points about hiring in experts at government level, so departments understand the implications of the technologies, is one key recommendation of the report, but the message to LC readers must be to take technology seriously as a campaigning issue. 

That is Open Rights Group&#039;s raison d&#039;etre, campaigning for your digital rights, so please feel free to take a look at our website, join our email list and get involved with active work pressing for our rights - including our human right to privacy.

http://www.openrightsgroup.org/</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great news that Ross Anderson and the FIPR ( <a href="http://www.fipr.org" rel="nofollow">http://www.fipr.org</a> ) have got this to public light today. You can see that it&#8217;s going to be a huge challenge to deal with this legacy &#8211; getting projects wrong in the first place has left a massive legacy of spending needed to protect our human rights. </p>
<p>Some very basic points about hiring in experts at government level, so departments understand the implications of the technologies, is one key recommendation of the report, but the message to LC readers must be to take technology seriously as a campaigning issue. </p>
<p>That is Open Rights Group&#8217;s raison d&#8217;etre, campaigning for your digital rights, so please feel free to take a look at our website, join our email list and get involved with active work pressing for our rights &#8211; including our human right to privacy.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.openrightsgroup.org/" rel="nofollow">http://www.openrightsgroup.org/</a></p>
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		<title>By: Liberal Conspiracy</title>
		<link>http://liberalconspiracy.org/2009/03/23/report-govt-has-lost-control-of-database-state/#comment-77867</link>
		<dc:creator>Liberal Conspiracy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Mar 2009 06:23:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.liberalconspiracy.org/?p=3473#comment-77867</guid>
		<description>&lt;span class=&quot;topsy_trackback_comment&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;topsy_twitter_username&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;topsy_trackback_content&quot;&gt;New post: Report: Govt has lost control of database state http://tinyurl.com/c5btcy&lt;/span&gt;
&lt;div class=&quot;topsy_trackback_links&quot;&gt;[&lt;a href=&quot;http://twitter.com/libcon/status/1374276026&quot;&gt;Original tweet&lt;/a&gt;]&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/span&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><span class="topsy_trackback_comment"><span class="topsy_twitter_username"><span class="topsy_trackback_content">New post: Report: Govt has lost control of database state <a href="http://tinyurl.com/c5btcy" rel="nofollow">http://tinyurl.com/c5btcy</a></span></p>
<div class="topsy_trackback_links">[<a href="http://twitter.com/libcon/status/1374276026">Original tweet</a>]</div>
<p></span></span></p>
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		<title>By: Gareth Winchester</title>
		<link>http://liberalconspiracy.org/2009/03/23/report-govt-has-lost-control-of-database-state/#comment-77866</link>
		<dc:creator>Gareth Winchester</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Mar 2009 03:30:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.liberalconspiracy.org/?p=3473#comment-77866</guid>
		<description>&lt;span class=&quot;topsy_trackback_comment&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;topsy_twitter_username&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;topsy_trackback_content&quot;&gt;RT @libcon: New post: Report: Govt has lost control of database state http://tinyurl.com/c5btcy&lt;/span&gt;
&lt;div class=&quot;topsy_trackback_links&quot;&gt;[&lt;a href=&quot;http://twitter.com/dnotice/status/1374824167&quot;&gt;Original tweet&lt;/a&gt;]&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/span&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><span class="topsy_trackback_comment"><span class="topsy_twitter_username"><span class="topsy_trackback_content">RT @libcon: New post: Report: Govt has lost control of database state <a href="http://tinyurl.com/c5btcy" rel="nofollow">http://tinyurl.com/c5btcy</a></span></p>
<div class="topsy_trackback_links">[<a href="http://twitter.com/dnotice/status/1374824167">Original tweet</a>]</div>
<p></span></span></p>
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		<title>By: Liberal Conspiracy</title>
		<link>http://liberalconspiracy.org/2009/03/23/report-govt-has-lost-control-of-database-state/#comment-79369</link>
		<dc:creator>Liberal Conspiracy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 22 Mar 2009 23:23:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.liberalconspiracy.org/?p=3473#comment-79369</guid>
		<description>&lt;span class=&quot;topsy_trackback_comment&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;topsy_twitter_username&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;topsy_trackback_content&quot;&gt;New post: Report: Govt has lost control of database state http://tinyurl.com/c5btcy&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><span class="topsy_trackback_comment"><span class="topsy_twitter_username"><span class="topsy_trackback_content">New post: Report: Govt has lost control of database state <a href="http://tinyurl.com/c5btcy" rel="nofollow">http://tinyurl.com/c5btcy</a></span></span></span></p>
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