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	<title>Comments on: Woolas: the Minister for Invertebrates</title>
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		<title>By: John H</title>
		<link>http://liberalconspiracy.org/2009/03/04/the-minister-for-invertebrate/#comment-37031</link>
		<dc:creator>John H</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Mar 2009 21:46:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.liberalconspiracy.org/?p=2972#comment-37031</guid>
		<description>Thanks Sunder for the clarification.  Apologies for any offence.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks Sunder for the clarification.  Apologies for any offence.</p>
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		<title>By: soru</title>
		<link>http://liberalconspiracy.org/2009/03/04/the-minister-for-invertebrate/#comment-37018</link>
		<dc:creator>soru</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Mar 2009 19:17:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.liberalconspiracy.org/?p=2972#comment-37018</guid>
		<description>6.5 million is, of course, 1 in 9 of the UK population of 60.1 million.

While he may have overstated his case, it looks to me like Woolas has a point. From the massed spreadsheets, someone at the ONS chose to extract a measure of immigration that is rising, and highlight that as the first sentence of the press release. Do what 99% of journalists would never do and flip over the page, and you will find the caveats about the headline figure (&#039;number of peaks and troughs within a time series&#039;, &#039;care should be taken when interpreting changes over time&#039;), as well as several other measures that are falling.

I don&#039;t see how spinning the figures that way is not &#039;playing politics&#039;.

When politicians spin, you can account for the fact they will be spinning it in predictable ways, and dig down to the real story. When some anonymous bureaucrat does it, it is much more insidious, as you can&#039;t know what their agenda is. Are they an Immigration Watch mole, a free marketeer, a trade unionist, a Guardianista, or what? Are they reluctantly letting facts overcome their prejudgement, or selecting the facts that confirm it? Is the whole thing some inter-agency turf war?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>6.5 million is, of course, 1 in 9 of the UK population of 60.1 million.</p>
<p>While he may have overstated his case, it looks to me like Woolas has a point. From the massed spreadsheets, someone at the ONS chose to extract a measure of immigration that is rising, and highlight that as the first sentence of the press release. Do what 99% of journalists would never do and flip over the page, and you will find the caveats about the headline figure (&#8216;number of peaks and troughs within a time series&#8217;, &#8216;care should be taken when interpreting changes over time&#8217;), as well as several other measures that are falling.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t see how spinning the figures that way is not &#8216;playing politics&#8217;.</p>
<p>When politicians spin, you can account for the fact they will be spinning it in predictable ways, and dig down to the real story. When some anonymous bureaucrat does it, it is much more insidious, as you can&#8217;t know what their agenda is. Are they an Immigration Watch mole, a free marketeer, a trade unionist, a Guardianista, or what? Are they reluctantly letting facts overcome their prejudgement, or selecting the facts that confirm it? Is the whole thing some inter-agency turf war?</p>
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		<title>By: Sunder Katwala</title>
		<link>http://liberalconspiracy.org/2009/03/04/the-minister-for-invertebrate/#comment-36950</link>
		<dc:creator>Sunder Katwala</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Mar 2009 06:33:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.liberalconspiracy.org/?p=2972#comment-36950</guid>
		<description>Am in Brussels so have missed some of the excitement around this.


(5) John H - Of course, I wouldn&#039;t bash a piece of private correspondence up on the website. He was responding to my request for a public comment. Its his judgment about what he wants to say.

I wrote to Woolas thanking him for taking part in a Fabian seminar, sending him a copy of my letter to Dacre and wrote  &quot;This has had very good play around the blogosphere ... Damian Green went so far as to issue a short statement to ConservativeHome last night ... Given that, the Fabians and the Liberal Conspiracy website (where I published this) thought we should also offer you the chance to say something about what you think we should take from these confusions about immigration and citizenship&quot;. 

(2) Newmania - &quot;Sunder&#039;s name spooked him&quot;. Please rethink such comments. They are offensive. As the MP for Oldham, he has met Asian people. He does not have to infer my views on immigration from my name (and nor should you) because I am perfectly capable of telling him what they are. So, for example, are the IPPR, who also took part in our recent seminar: that isn&#039;t based on the ethnic origin of their staff either.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Am in Brussels so have missed some of the excitement around this.</p>
<p>(5) John H &#8211; Of course, I wouldn&#8217;t bash a piece of private correspondence up on the website. He was responding to my request for a public comment. Its his judgment about what he wants to say.</p>
<p>I wrote to Woolas thanking him for taking part in a Fabian seminar, sending him a copy of my letter to Dacre and wrote  &#8220;This has had very good play around the blogosphere &#8230; Damian Green went so far as to issue a short statement to ConservativeHome last night &#8230; Given that, the Fabians and the Liberal Conspiracy website (where I published this) thought we should also offer you the chance to say something about what you think we should take from these confusions about immigration and citizenship&#8221;. </p>
<p>(2) Newmania &#8211; &#8220;Sunder&#8217;s name spooked him&#8221;. Please rethink such comments. They are offensive. As the MP for Oldham, he has met Asian people. He does not have to infer my views on immigration from my name (and nor should you) because I am perfectly capable of telling him what they are. So, for example, are the IPPR, who also took part in our recent seminar: that isn&#8217;t based on the ethnic origin of their staff either.</p>
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		<title>By: Sunny Hundal</title>
		<link>http://liberalconspiracy.org/2009/03/04/the-minister-for-invertebrate/#comment-36943</link>
		<dc:creator>Sunny Hundal</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Mar 2009 01:06:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.liberalconspiracy.org/?p=2972#comment-36943</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t see anyone getting sacked either. The Daily Mail is making a big hoo-haa over this, only because the scumbags were embarrassed they (well, Slack did anyway) made the insinuation that we weren&#039;t British.

Some idiot Tory MP gave a nasty comment to the quote, as did those &lt;i&gt;we&#039;re-not-racist-we&#039;re-just-scared-of-brown-people&lt;/i&gt; idiots from MigrationWatch. No big deal to be honest. Though, its true that Woolas is being dishonest about this all, its relatively a lesser crime than the amount of twisting and bullshitting the Daily Mail is doing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t see anyone getting sacked either. The Daily Mail is making a big hoo-haa over this, only because the scumbags were embarrassed they (well, Slack did anyway) made the insinuation that we weren&#8217;t British.</p>
<p>Some idiot Tory MP gave a nasty comment to the quote, as did those <i>we&#8217;re-not-racist-we&#8217;re-just-scared-of-brown-people</i> idiots from MigrationWatch. No big deal to be honest. Though, its true that Woolas is being dishonest about this all, its relatively a lesser crime than the amount of twisting and bullshitting the Daily Mail is doing.</p>
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		<title>By: John H</title>
		<link>http://liberalconspiracy.org/2009/03/04/the-minister-for-invertebrate/#comment-36930</link>
		<dc:creator>John H</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Mar 2009 21:21:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.liberalconspiracy.org/?p=2972#comment-36930</guid>
		<description>oh come on. Let&#039;s go back and read Woolas&#039; &quot;statement&quot;.  Its a chatty letter to a friend, a note to a trusted colleague.  Sunder, I am sorry but I doubt he expected it to be published.  I am no fan of Woolas but this is hardly a scandal. 

I don&#039;t see Jacqui Smith sacking anyone - she has her own issues.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>oh come on. Let&#8217;s go back and read Woolas&#8217; &#8220;statement&#8221;.  Its a chatty letter to a friend, a note to a trusted colleague.  Sunder, I am sorry but I doubt he expected it to be published.  I am no fan of Woolas but this is hardly a scandal. </p>
<p>I don&#8217;t see Jacqui Smith sacking anyone &#8211; she has her own issues.</p>
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		<title>By: Unity</title>
		<link>http://liberalconspiracy.org/2009/03/04/the-minister-for-invertebrate/#comment-36908</link>
		<dc:creator>Unity</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Mar 2009 17:51:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.liberalconspiracy.org/?p=2972#comment-36908</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;Is that an admission that he and his political ilk are sharks?&lt;/i&gt;

Only in the Viz sense.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Is that an admission that he and his political ilk are sharks?</i></p>
<p>Only in the Viz sense.</p>
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		<title>By: Alisdair Cameron</title>
		<link>http://liberalconspiracy.org/2009/03/04/the-minister-for-invertebrate/#comment-36900</link>
		<dc:creator>Alisdair Cameron</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Mar 2009 17:30:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.liberalconspiracy.org/?p=2972#comment-36900</guid>
		<description>He is a tw*t, isn&#039;t he?
&quot;The ONS need to be aware that they are entering shark-infested waters&quot;. Is that an admission that he and his political ilk are sharks? 
Too cowed by fear of possible outcomes to the scare-mongering twisted tales of some newspapers.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>He is a tw*t, isn&#8217;t he?<br />
&#8220;The ONS need to be aware that they are entering shark-infested waters&#8221;. Is that an admission that he and his political ilk are sharks?<br />
Too cowed by fear of possible outcomes to the scare-mongering twisted tales of some newspapers.</p>
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		<title>By: Newmania</title>
		<link>http://liberalconspiracy.org/2009/03/04/the-minister-for-invertebrate/#comment-36888</link>
		<dc:creator>Newmania</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Mar 2009 16:24:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.liberalconspiracy.org/?p=2972#comment-36888</guid>
		<description>I thought it was unlikely that the ONS were engaged in a war against immigration in cahoots with the Daily Mail but I cannot entirely  work out what Wally Woollass was up to. I would guess he thought that Sunder was accusing New Labour of creating anti immigrant feeling as they did in Crewe  or by the  &quot;British Jobs....&quot; lie . Sunder`s name spooked him and he cast around for anyone to blame .
As I understand it he was being asked to condemn the Daily Mail and thats all he had to do . All of this  makes it look as though New Labour have beaucoup to hide on immigration. Of course , we know they do . It is  a testimony to the febrile atmosphere of blame and panic amongst the soon to be unemployed Labour yes men</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I thought it was unlikely that the ONS were engaged in a war against immigration in cahoots with the Daily Mail but I cannot entirely  work out what Wally Woollass was up to. I would guess he thought that Sunder was accusing New Labour of creating anti immigrant feeling as they did in Crewe  or by the  &#8220;British Jobs&#8230;.&#8221; lie . Sunder`s name spooked him and he cast around for anyone to blame .<br />
As I understand it he was being asked to condemn the Daily Mail and thats all he had to do . All of this  makes it look as though New Labour have beaucoup to hide on immigration. Of course , we know they do . It is  a testimony to the febrile atmosphere of blame and panic amongst the soon to be unemployed Labour yes men</p>
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		<title>By: Diversity</title>
		<link>http://liberalconspiracy.org/2009/03/04/the-minister-for-invertebrate/#comment-36882</link>
		<dc:creator>Diversity</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Mar 2009 15:48:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.liberalconspiracy.org/?p=2972#comment-36882</guid>
		<description>&#039;Miister for Invertebrates&#039; ? Of course, you mean a Governemnt Whip. Perfect; and he would have to keep his mouth shut in public. And be no threat to earthworms.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8216;Miister for Invertebrates&#8217; ? Of course, you mean a Governemnt Whip. Perfect; and he would have to keep his mouth shut in public. And be no threat to earthworms.</p>
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		<title>By: Liberal Conspiracy</title>
		<link>http://liberalconspiracy.org/2009/03/04/the-minister-for-invertebrate/#comment-75412</link>
		<dc:creator>Liberal Conspiracy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Mar 2009 07:31:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.liberalconspiracy.org/?p=2972#comment-75412</guid>
		<description>&lt;span class=&quot;topsy_trackback_comment&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;topsy_twitter_username&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;topsy_trackback_content&quot;&gt;New post: The Minister for Invertebrates http://tinyurl.com/c6odoj&lt;/span&gt;
&lt;div class=&quot;topsy_trackback_links&quot;&gt;[&lt;a href=&quot;http://twitter.com/libcon/status/1278891533&quot;&gt;Original tweet&lt;/a&gt;]&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/span&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><span class="topsy_trackback_comment"><span class="topsy_twitter_username"><span class="topsy_trackback_content">New post: The Minister for Invertebrates <a href="http://tinyurl.com/c6odoj" rel="nofollow">http://tinyurl.com/c6odoj</a></span></p>
<div class="topsy_trackback_links">[<a href="http://twitter.com/libcon/status/1278891533">Original tweet</a>]</div>
<p></span></span></p>
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