Comments on: Ben Goldacre legally threatened by LBC http://liberalconspiracy.org/2009/02/08/ben-goldacre-legally-threatened-by-lbc/ creating a new liberal-left force Mon, 22 Mar 2010 00:36:13 -0700 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.6 hourly 1 By: Linkspam, aka first ‘real’ post, aka THIS IS THE NEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEWS. « Embololalia http://liberalconspiracy.org/2009/02/08/ben-goldacre-legally-threatened-by-lbc/#comment-34115 Linkspam, aka first ‘real’ post, aka THIS IS THE NEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEWS. « Embololalia Tue, 10 Feb 2009 17:44:41 +0000 http://www.liberalconspiracy.org/?p=2365#comment-34115 [...] Ben Goldacre is being threatened with legal action for putting a radio clip on his website. Entirely not embarrassment at what HORRIBLE ANTI-SCIENTIFIC TOOLS they are. (This is as good a [...] [...] Ben Goldacre is being threatened with legal action for putting a radio clip on his website. Entirely not embarrassment at what HORRIBLE ANTI-SCIENTIFIC TOOLS they are. (This is as good a [...]

]]> By: Lee Griffin http://liberalconspiracy.org/2009/02/08/ben-goldacre-legally-threatened-by-lbc/#comment-34073 Lee Griffin Tue, 10 Feb 2009 14:40:51 +0000 http://www.liberalconspiracy.org/?p=2365#comment-34073 Definitely agree asquith. Definitely agree asquith.

]]> By: asquith http://liberalconspiracy.org/2009/02/08/ben-goldacre-legally-threatened-by-lbc/#comment-34050 asquith Tue, 10 Feb 2009 11:35:36 +0000 http://www.liberalconspiracy.org/?p=2365#comment-34050 American schools are refusing to admit pupils who are not vaccinated, on the very reasonable grounds that they pose a health risk to other children, in real life rather than on the planet woo that Barnett inhabits. http://www.guardian.co.uk/education/2009/feb/10/measles-mmr-vaccine Something which should be emulated in my humble opinion. Can't really be arsed to go on again about how Barnett, Mad Mel, clinically sane Peter Hitchens et al are putting youngsters' lives at risk. But this is a concrete bit of business that should be enacted. American schools are refusing to admit pupils who are not vaccinated, on the very reasonable grounds that they pose a health risk to other children, in real life rather than on the planet woo that Barnett inhabits.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/education/2009/feb/10/measles-mmr-vaccine

Something which should be emulated in my humble opinion.

Can’t really be arsed to go on again about how Barnett, Mad Mel, clinically sane Peter Hitchens et al are putting youngsters’ lives at risk. But this is a concrete bit of business that should be enacted.

]]> By: Matt Wardman http://liberalconspiracy.org/2009/02/08/ben-goldacre-legally-threatened-by-lbc/#comment-33932 Matt Wardman Mon, 09 Feb 2009 01:21:00 +0000 http://www.liberalconspiracy.org/?p=2365#comment-33932 Lee>Aye, fair dealing would more than cover this, given what he linked to was a clipped piece of the original broadcast. I think he was on the edge for Fair Dealing as he (AIUI) posted the whole item about MMR. That doesn't make the bullying any more acceptable, of course. Lee>Aye, fair dealing would more than cover this, given what he linked to was a clipped piece of the original broadcast.

I think he was on the edge for Fair Dealing as he (AIUI) posted the whole item about MMR. That doesn’t make the bullying any more acceptable, of course.

]]> By: Jeni Barnett and the LBC Radio MMR Vaccine Segment: Updated with links of blog coverage « Holford Watch: Patrick Holford, nutritionism and bad science http://liberalconspiracy.org/2009/02/08/ben-goldacre-legally-threatened-by-lbc/#comment-33921 Jeni Barnett and the LBC Radio MMR Vaccine Segment: Updated with links of blog coverage « Holford Watch: Patrick Holford, nutritionism and bad science Sun, 08 Feb 2009 23:35:59 +0000 http://www.liberalconspiracy.org/?p=2365#comment-33921 [...] Sunny Hundal of Liberal Conspiracy feels that it is outrageous that: Ben Goldacre legally threatened by LBC. [...] [...] Sunny Hundal of Liberal Conspiracy feels that it is outrageous that: Ben Goldacre legally threatened by LBC. [...]

]]> By: Andrew http://liberalconspiracy.org/2009/02/08/ben-goldacre-legally-threatened-by-lbc/#comment-33890 Andrew Sun, 08 Feb 2009 16:14:22 +0000 http://www.liberalconspiracy.org/?p=2365#comment-33890 No, I'm not. But I don't think copyright is universally evil, and I don't think pretending that LBC have no rights over the redistribution of their radio show is actually going to make them have no rights (whether it is sensible for them to try to enforce those rights is a different matter, of course). I remember the Laurence Godfrey cases very well, and many people haven't progressed very far from the common belief back then that sticking your head in the sand and saying "the law doesn't apply to the internet" is a sensible course of action. It didn't do Phill Hallam-Baker much good. In an ideal world, Jeni Barnett would be being pilloried by the national press, but unfortunately we're living in a world where feelings are allowed to trump facts, and leaving rude messages on an answering machine is an evil crime whereas spreading lies which will lead to children dying is a matter of individual belief, which is sacrosanct. No, I’m not. But I don’t think copyright is universally evil, and I don’t think pretending that LBC have no rights over the redistribution of their radio show is actually going to make them have no rights (whether it is sensible for them to try to enforce those rights is a different matter, of course). I remember the Laurence Godfrey cases very well, and many people haven’t progressed very far from the common belief back then that sticking your head in the sand and saying “the law doesn’t apply to the internet” is a sensible course of action. It didn’t do Phill Hallam-Baker much good.

In an ideal world, Jeni Barnett would be being pilloried by the national press, but unfortunately we’re living in a world where feelings are allowed to trump facts, and leaving rude messages on an answering machine is an evil crime whereas spreading lies which will lead to children dying is a matter of individual belief, which is sacrosanct.

]]> By: john b http://liberalconspiracy.org/2009/02/08/ben-goldacre-legally-threatened-by-lbc/#comment-33884 john b Sun, 08 Feb 2009 15:33:20 +0000 http://www.liberalconspiracy.org/?p=2365#comment-33884 Just out of interest, are you the same Andrew who was being an idiot ("if someone looks at the flowers in my garden, it HARMS me") on the copyright thread? "<i>A Sunday Times investigation has now found Wakefield altered the MMR data</i>" I oppose the death penalty in general, but would cheerfully hang Wakefield. Just out of interest, are you the same Andrew who was being an idiot (”if someone looks at the flowers in my garden, it HARMS me”) on the copyright thread?

“A Sunday Times investigation has now found Wakefield altered the MMR data”

I oppose the death penalty in general, but would cheerfully hang Wakefield.

]]> By: Andrew http://liberalconspiracy.org/2009/02/08/ben-goldacre-legally-threatened-by-lbc/#comment-33873 Andrew Sun, 08 Feb 2009 13:11:48 +0000 http://www.liberalconspiracy.org/?p=2365#comment-33873 Leaving aside the issue of Barnett's being a dangerous moron and Goldacre's being wonderful, and the fact that as Alisdair Cameron points out this sort of thing is counterproductive, is it the contention of Goldacre and some of his supporters that Britain does not have copyright law, or that it doesn't apply to him? The quote from Goldacre makes it sound as if radio companies don't pay for the right to broadcast, or pay for the production of the programmes they transmit, and it's questionable to say the least whether reproducing an entire segment of a programme falls within fair dealing. The LRB doesn't get to reprint entire copyrighted books provided they append a brief review by Terry Eagleton at the end. There's a great deal of wishful thinking in the area of copyright and the net, unfortunately. Leaving aside the issue of Barnett’s being a dangerous moron and Goldacre’s being wonderful, and the fact that as Alisdair Cameron points out this sort of thing is counterproductive, is it the contention of Goldacre and some of his supporters that Britain does not have copyright law, or that it doesn’t apply to him? The quote from Goldacre makes it sound as if radio companies don’t pay for the right to broadcast, or pay for the production of the programmes they transmit, and it’s questionable to say the least whether reproducing an entire segment of a programme falls within fair dealing. The LRB doesn’t get to reprint entire copyrighted books provided they append a brief review by Terry Eagleton at the end. There’s a great deal of wishful thinking in the area of copyright and the net, unfortunately.

]]> By: asquith http://liberalconspiracy.org/2009/02/08/ben-goldacre-legally-threatened-by-lbc/#comment-33866 asquith Sun, 08 Feb 2009 10:49:39 +0000 http://www.liberalconspiracy.org/?p=2365#comment-33866 Barnett is playing the victim & claiming, pathetically, to be a mother trying to do what is best for her children. I find it possible that she is just stupid & is the dupe of scaremongers, but that's no excuse. If she doesn't understand it, she shouldn't have hectored us about it. I don't go on TV telling people all about biochemistry or ancient Greek, so why should she have the right to make these statements & go unchallenged? I have seen nothing even vaguely describale as evidence that MMR causes autism. You are harming children by not having them protected against preventable diseases. The likes of Mad Mel Philips & Peter Hitchens should hang their heads in shame, but won't. http://nhsblogdoc.blogspot.com/2009/01/barack-obama-mmr-autism-wibble-and-woo.html http://nhsblogdoc.blogspot.com/search/label/Jeni%20Barnett This blog is essential reading if you do not follow it already. Barnett is playing the victim & claiming, pathetically, to be a mother trying to do what is best for her children. I find it possible that she is just stupid & is the dupe of scaremongers, but that’s no excuse. If she doesn’t understand it, she shouldn’t have hectored us about it. I don’t go on TV telling people all about biochemistry or ancient Greek, so why should she have the right to make these statements & go unchallenged?

I have seen nothing even vaguely describale as evidence that MMR causes autism. You are harming children by not having them protected against preventable diseases. The likes of Mad Mel Philips & Peter Hitchens should hang their heads in shame, but won’t.

http://nhsblogdoc.blogspot.com/2009/01/barack-obama-mmr-autism-wibble-and-woo.html
http://nhsblogdoc.blogspot.com/search/label/Jeni%20Barnett

This blog is essential reading if you do not follow it already.

]]> By: Alisdair Cameron http://liberalconspiracy.org/2009/02/08/ben-goldacre-legally-threatened-by-lbc/#comment-33858 Alisdair Cameron Sun, 08 Feb 2009 07:13:56 +0000 http://www.liberalconspiracy.org/?p=2365#comment-33858 LBC's lawyers haven't pursued the wisest course of action in my view (says he being ultra-diplomatic): taking on such a prominent and highly-regarded blogger, taking an action which appears bullying, and contrary to the notions of free speech and information availability held by most of the blogosphere, and doing so in defence of an unsubstantiated, unscientific and dangerous to others viewpoint. Of course it was going to go on wikilieaks, and get a huge backlash. I'm not sure they 'get' the net: bully a good guy, and Ben is one of the good guys, and, thank goodness, folk rally round. LBC’s lawyers haven’t pursued the wisest course of action in my view (says he being ultra-diplomatic): taking on such a prominent and highly-regarded blogger, taking an action which appears bullying, and contrary to the notions of free speech and information availability held by most of the blogosphere, and doing so in defence of an unsubstantiated, unscientific and dangerous to others viewpoint.
Of course it was going to go on wikilieaks, and get a huge backlash. I’m not sure they ‘get’ the net: bully a good guy, and Ben is one of the good guys, and, thank goodness, folk rally round.

]]> By: Lee Griffin http://liberalconspiracy.org/2009/02/08/ben-goldacre-legally-threatened-by-lbc/#comment-33856 Lee Griffin Sun, 08 Feb 2009 03:33:33 +0000 http://www.liberalconspiracy.org/?p=2365#comment-33856 Aye, fair dealing would more than cover this, given what he linked to was a clipped piece of the original broadcast. Aye, fair dealing would more than cover this, given what he linked to was a clipped piece of the original broadcast.

]]> By: James Graham http://liberalconspiracy.org/2009/02/08/ben-goldacre-legally-threatened-by-lbc/#comment-33854 James Graham Sun, 08 Feb 2009 02:03:47 +0000 http://www.liberalconspiracy.org/?p=2365#comment-33854 IANAL, but while "fair use" is indeed a US term, Goldacre does appear to be covered by the UK definition of <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copyright_law_of_the_United_Kingdom#Fair_dealing_and_other_exceptions" rel="nofollow">fair dealing</a>. IANAL, but while “fair use” is indeed a US term, Goldacre does appear to be covered by the UK definition of fair dealing.

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