Comments on: New Labour, fascism and silly squabbles http://liberalconspiracy.org/2008/09/02/new-labour-fascism-and-silly-squabbles/ Left-wing news, opinion and activism Sun, 12 Feb 2012 11:29:43 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3 By: Chris Baldwin http://liberalconspiracy.org/2008/09/02/new-labour-fascism-and-silly-squabbles/#comment-20299 Chris Baldwin Thu, 04 Sep 2008 20:22:00 +0000 http://www.liberalconspiracy.org/?p=1201#comment-20299 "Well, as I have argued before, the Green’s [sic] can hardly speak, being fascists themselves with a bearded face:" You know you're in trouble when this is the first post in a thread. And I'm pretty sure Derek Wall doesn't have a beard. “Well, as I have argued before, the Green’s [sic] can hardly speak, being fascists themselves with a bearded face:”

You know you’re in trouble when this is the first post in a thread. And I’m pretty sure Derek Wall doesn’t have a beard.

]]> By: Chris Baldwin http://liberalconspiracy.org/2008/09/02/new-labour-fascism-and-silly-squabbles/#comment-20298 Chris Baldwin Thu, 04 Sep 2008 20:15:25 +0000 http://www.liberalconspiracy.org/?p=1201#comment-20298 Give muesli a break, it's a good breakfast. Give muesli a break, it’s a good breakfast.

]]> By: thomas http://liberalconspiracy.org/2008/09/02/new-labour-fascism-and-silly-squabbles/#comment-19930 thomas Tue, 02 Sep 2008 15:48:59 +0000 http://www.liberalconspiracy.org/?p=1201#comment-19930 fascism originated in Italy, the swastika was popularised as a symbol of nazism in Germany - are they really part of the same thing? *scratches head in a slightly perplexed manner* ...from a 1930's era pamphlet... socialism: you have two cows - you give one to your neighbour. fascism: you have two cows - you keep them both and give the milk to the government, which sells part of it back to you. communism: you have two cows - you give both to the government and they give yu some of the milk back. nazism: you have two cows - the government shoots you and takes them both. social democracy: you have two cows - the government shoots one, milks the other and pours the milk down the drain. capital democracy: you have two cows - you sell one and buy a bull. fascism originated in Italy, the swastika was popularised as a symbol of nazism in Germany – are they really part of the same thing?

*scratches head in a slightly perplexed manner*

…from a 1930′s era pamphlet…

socialism: you have two cows – you give one to your neighbour.

fascism: you have two cows – you keep them both and give the milk to the government, which sells part of it back to you.

communism: you have two cows – you give both to the government and they give yu some of the milk back.

nazism: you have two cows – the government shoots you and takes them both.

social democracy: you have two cows – the government shoots one, milks the other and pours the milk down the drain.

capital democracy: you have two cows – you sell one and buy a bull.

]]> By: Sunny Hundal http://liberalconspiracy.org/2008/09/02/new-labour-fascism-and-silly-squabbles/#comment-19895 Sunny Hundal Tue, 02 Sep 2008 14:17:44 +0000 http://www.liberalconspiracy.org/?p=1201#comment-19895 Oh jeez, you libertarians really love the word 'fascist' eh... Oh jeez, you libertarians really love the word ‘fascist’ eh…

]]> By: Matt Munro http://liberalconspiracy.org/2008/09/02/new-labour-fascism-and-silly-squabbles/#comment-19893 Matt Munro Tue, 02 Sep 2008 12:32:44 +0000 http://www.liberalconspiracy.org/?p=1201#comment-19893 Yep - smoking bans, passive agressive social pressure to conform to an intruisive pro-environment, pro-health socialist agenda, the private made public, state interventions in every aspect of life, special rights for selected ethnic groups, a multiplication of state agencies and agents, the criminalisation of off meassage speech, marginalisation of the self sufficient nuclear family, the denigration of history, the marginalisation of religion, the abuse of science, the labelling of non-conformity as mental illness, what on earth have nulab got in common with fascism............................. Yep – smoking bans, passive agressive social pressure to conform to an intruisive pro-environment, pro-health socialist agenda, the private made public, state interventions in every aspect of life, special rights for selected ethnic groups, a multiplication of state agencies and agents, the criminalisation of off meassage speech, marginalisation of the self sufficient nuclear family, the denigration of history, the marginalisation of religion, the abuse of science, the labelling of non-conformity as mental illness, what on earth have nulab got in common with fascism………………………..

]]> By: Conor Foley http://liberalconspiracy.org/2008/09/02/new-labour-fascism-and-silly-squabbles/#comment-19890 Conor Foley Tue, 02 Sep 2008 12:03:12 +0000 http://www.liberalconspiracy.org/?p=1201#comment-19890 I think HP should review their comments policy. Just as the Guardian is responsible for everything that appears in the comments box at CiF, they are responsible for what they allow to remain on their website. I have been called an antisemite there twice and, the night before I went to Afghanistan, someone charmingly expressed the wish that I be attacked while I was there. I got the first comment off after threatening legal action, but was told that I just had to develop a thicker skin about the other two (including the one about being attacked). As David T presumably knows, freedom of expression carries with it duties and responsibilities and is not just a licence to say things about people that they don't want to hear. Having said which I think the Greens deserve to be taken to task for the above picture which is ridiculously offensive. It is exactly this kind of banal misrepresentation of other people's views and trivialisation of real suffering and evil that so cheapens political discourse. I think HP should review their comments policy. Just as the Guardian is responsible for everything that appears in the comments box at CiF, they are responsible for what they allow to remain on their website. I have been called an antisemite there twice and, the night before I went to Afghanistan, someone charmingly expressed the wish that I be attacked while I was there. I got the first comment off after threatening legal action, but was told that I just had to develop a thicker skin about the other two (including the one about being attacked). As David T presumably knows, freedom of expression carries with it duties and responsibilities and is not just a licence to say things about people that they don’t want to hear.

Having said which I think the Greens deserve to be taken to task for the above picture which is ridiculously offensive. It is exactly this kind of banal misrepresentation of other people’s views and trivialisation of real suffering and evil that so cheapens political discourse.

]]> By: Andrew Adams http://liberalconspiracy.org/2008/09/02/new-labour-fascism-and-silly-squabbles/#comment-19889 Andrew Adams Tue, 02 Sep 2008 11:52:03 +0000 http://www.liberalconspiracy.org/?p=1201#comment-19889 A lot of the stuff on HP is the standard Green bashing, which is what you expect. There seems to a visceral hatred of the Greens among the denizens of HP, both left and right, for some reason. I have to say though that whatever the merit's of Wall's article the illustration is bloody stupid. You just shouldn't use the swastika lightly. A lot of the stuff on HP is the standard Green bashing, which is what you expect. There seems to a visceral hatred of the Greens among the denizens of HP, both left and right, for some reason.

I have to say though that whatever the merit’s of Wall’s article the illustration is bloody stupid. You just shouldn’t use the swastika lightly.

]]> By: Luis Enrique http://liberalconspiracy.org/2008/09/02/new-labour-fascism-and-silly-squabbles/#comment-19888 Luis Enrique Tue, 02 Sep 2008 11:13:58 +0000 http://www.liberalconspiracy.org/?p=1201#comment-19888 I'm confused. There are a couple of comments on the HP post saying something about how socialism entails the integration of corporations and the state, but I see no "pulling Hayek-style “socialism equals fascism” wannabes by the dozen." I gather you dislike HP, but your dig appears unwarranted here. Plus the intro about them griping about other blogs looks very lame, because that's just what you go on to do yourself. I’m confused. There are a couple of comments on the HP post saying something about how socialism entails the integration of corporations and the state, but I see no “pulling Hayek-style “socialism equals fascism” wannabes by the dozen.” I gather you dislike HP, but your dig appears unwarranted here. Plus the intro about them griping about other blogs looks very lame, because that’s just what you go on to do yourself.

]]> By: Pippa http://liberalconspiracy.org/2008/09/02/new-labour-fascism-and-silly-squabbles/#comment-19885 Pippa Tue, 02 Sep 2008 10:31:29 +0000 http://www.liberalconspiracy.org/?p=1201#comment-19885 Just want to point out that Derek Wall isn't the leader of the Green Party. We'll be electing our first leader later this week... Just want to point out that Derek Wall isn’t the leader of the Green Party. We’ll be electing our first leader later this week…

]]> By: QuestionThat http://liberalconspiracy.org/2008/09/02/new-labour-fascism-and-silly-squabbles/#comment-19883 QuestionThat Tue, 02 Sep 2008 10:24:32 +0000 http://www.liberalconspiracy.org/?p=1201#comment-19883 Hmmm. Greens taking a leaf out of the 'bloggertarian' book?!? Hmmm. Greens taking a leaf out of the ‘bloggertarian’ book?!?

]]> By: Nick http://liberalconspiracy.org/2008/09/02/new-labour-fascism-and-silly-squabbles/#comment-19882 Nick Tue, 02 Sep 2008 10:10:48 +0000 http://www.liberalconspiracy.org/?p=1201#comment-19882 Well, as I have argued before, the Green's can hardly speak, being fascists themselves with a bearded face: http://www.samizdata.net/blog/archives/2008/02/vote_green_go_b.html But there are grounds for calling New Labour fascists of a sort. While socialism nationalises property, fascism permits private property but has the state choose what you can do with it - this is the direction of New Labour's economic policy. Socially, it lacks the spiky bits of systematic concentration camps, ethnic cleansing, permanent detention without trial (though getting longer), and we don't yet have papers to show apart from at borders (but coming soon!), which is why concur with No2Id's Guy Herbert's description of "soft fascism": http://www.samizdata.net/blog/archives/2008/08/like_your_manif_1.html Well, as I have argued before, the Green’s can hardly speak, being fascists themselves with a bearded face: http://www.samizdata.net/blog/archives/2008/02/vote_green_go_b.html

But there are grounds for calling New Labour fascists of a sort. While socialism nationalises property, fascism permits private property but has the state choose what you can do with it – this is the direction of New Labour’s economic policy. Socially, it lacks the spiky bits of systematic concentration camps, ethnic cleansing, permanent detention without trial (though getting longer), and we don’t yet have papers to show apart from at borders (but coming soon!), which is why concur with No2Id’s Guy Herbert’s description of “soft fascism”: http://www.samizdata.net/blog/archives/2008/08/like_your_manif_1.html

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