If you think feminism should be about abortion, political affiliation, and religion…then it is not a civil right fight, but basically an ideaology your are pushing…nothing different than radical islam and fundemtalist christianity.

I want to teach my daughter that you can be a feminist of any race, with different views, and that the real calling of a feminist is to believe that they have been created equalt to a men.

Uhhh… maybe she just has a different concept of what sanctity means than you, one that isn’t based on personal autonomy but on the assumption that a child is a blessing (whatever the circumstances of the conception) and that the right thing to do in those circumstances is to ensure they have a family life. I don’t agree with it myself, but it makes more sense to me than the left’s apparent position on the family: don’t make any demands on parents and let the state fill in the gaps (poorly).

No you get real Lee. This is another typical Republican hypocrite who preaches abstinence only teaching . This policy has been backed by the Republicans, and has failed badly in places like Texas, where huge amounts of tax $ have been spent. Now we have a Republican Governor who also backs this policy ,but it does not even work in her own family. Seeing as people like her also oppose abortion, it is a very stupid and dangerous policy.

She’s the worst type of Christian fundamentalist hypocrite.

I think Lee you are a pit of a concern troll.

If you can argue it was for her career, which I have no opinion on. My point is much as Aaron’s has been…politically it’s a non-starter that will divide opinion more than provide ammunition against the republicans. I find it laughable that it keeps getting brought up as any kind of serious point, because it isn’t.

And while some might think that persuading a 17-year-old to go through with a pregnancy for the sake of morality Jeebus her mum’s career is a respectable and worthy thing, they’re wrong.

So because her daughter “made a mistake”, or perhaps wasn’t in the 100% authoritarian grip of her mother…Palin is suddenly incapable of being a politician and is also a hypocrite? Get real already, the actions of someone else, and the subsequent fall out and managing of the situation are COMPLETELY independent of her beliefs on abstinence. If she’d had got her daughter to abort the baby and covered that up maybe you’d have a shred of a point. For once.

She is now having to lawyer herself up against accusations that she had a state trooper fired because of a family dispute. She also does not know the basis of the pledge of allegiance. She claims that ‘Under God’ was put in by the founding fathers. It was actually put in in the 1950s.

She is a typical, simpleton religious fundie nut, so it is no wonder Hitchens and Dale like her.

Well, you won’t agree with a word I have to say about you on the other place. Consider this a football match in no mans land during the first World War.

One can’t help but think that at least part of it must be mixed with concern, though – if the reactionary parties have taken to ascending women to such high positions then does what this say about the beloved “Patriarchy” that feminists are entirely ideologically dependent upon?

Well, in reality, it displays its shattered and ended state. The Republicans use women as a means to win an election, thus displaying the power which women in contemporary society possess. This was a victory, incidentally, of the very First Wave of feminism. Let us not speak out against that, or minimise what was a feminist achievement of a feminist goal. But to pretend that the model of male dominance remains in power after this development is nothing short of laughable.

I don’t like the incidence of abortion, or any of that stuff. But I accept that it is the lesser of two evils.

douglasclarke, I absolutely agree with you. And I never thought I’d write that sentence…

DK

Hitchens says:
Which just goes to show that ultra-feminists are not actually interested in promoting women because they’re women. They pretend they are, but really their agenda

If he agrees with the feminist stance, then what is he going on about? Of course feminists are not going to promote women just because they’re women.

Feminists are interested in issues that advance female choice and equality. What’s there to cry about? Why in the world should feminists support a woman who is anti-abortion full stop… not even counting her support for creationism teachings?

You don’t have to be an ultra-feminist to be pro-choice, Hitchens!

Agreed.

I think one of the best debates that there ever was on here was over abortion. And the consensus – here – got it right. I was swayed, if you like.

Christopher seems to have other ideas. Perhaps he should try to persuade us we were wrong?

I am a fairly socially conservative male. I don’t like the incidence of abortion, or any of that stuff. But I accept that it is the lesser of two evils.

You don’t have to be an ultra-feminist to be pro-choice, Hitchens!

Amrit, again, I don’t understand how what you say is supposed to contradict Hitchens. He is saying precisely that one can disagree legitimately with a woman’s politics as much as one can disagree with Brown’s.

Please don’t say you are quoting someone, in this case Hitchins, in full when you leave off the final para, which says:

Not least because they are the bigots – merciless when it comes to a choice between their own convenience and the life of an unborn baby.

That is all.

P.Hitchens gives no evidence whatsoever of these ‘ultra feminists’. Who are they? Where are they? I can’t help thinking that if you construct everything you’re saying around mere assertions, no-one has to take you seriously even for a minute.

The feminists Sunny has mentioned, who probably fall within his bizarre category (‘ultra’) simply by being openly feminist, merely said that they don’t need to agree with all that Palin believes in, just because she’s a woman. Much like Hitchens himself wouldn’t necessarily agree with everything Gordon Brown says, just because GB’s a man.

@ Kate: I have to say too that ‘tart’ was really not the best choice of word. I think that Palin is a somewhat deluded have-her-cake-and-eat-it type (feminist AND pro-life, anti-corruption while being investigated over accusations of political interference herself…) and her hair scares me a little with its somewhat unnatural height at times (Hillary had ‘power hair’ too ;-P). However, calling her a ‘tart’, ‘bimbo’ or otherwise plays into the hands of Hitchens and his ilk!